Edwards supporters- Edwards on the occupation of Iraq?

[Tinoire]

I'd like to know much more about his position because he's already scored a very important point for being anti-NAFTA.

This is very important to me because I see occupation as war. Kucinich is the only one I can currently vote for in good conscience but I want to have a back-up plan & prepare myself for the GE.

I ask for my conscience and soldiers like the one in the picture below.

No spin, no fluff & thanks...

------------

Stole this from Mari333:

Please Vote for a Democrat if not for yourself for these guys


They need to come home. Please.


Bring our kids home
http://www.bringthetroopshomenow.com

[JohnLocke]

1. No spin, no fluff, no problem!

AP and others will be searching for quotes. Back in a flash!

[Tinoire]

3. Thank you. Very, very much appreciated. n/t

[Tinoire]

7. John- could you throw in Israel/Palestine also?

That is an extremely important issue to me because the "mis-understanding" in that region is exploding the entire world and influencing way too much.

[DjTj]

9. Israel:

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/israel.asp

[Tinoire]

13. I LOVE you but this is only getting worse! Help me out PLEASE

because that was frightening. Not one word about the Palestinians- it was all Israel, Israel, Israel double-speak & lip-service.

John Edwards believes that Israel is one of America's vital allies, and that the U.S. must support Israel to help it fight terror and achieve peace.
<snip>
and will ensure that America will do what is necessary to ensure Israel's security, including through economic and military aid.

So damn. I WANT to find reasons to vote for Edwards. Let me make this simple... Why should I? In your own words please. And skip NAFTA because that's the main reason I am even willig to consider Edwards. He gets a good solid B+ on that.

Understand that I am an anti-war Leftist who will go to extremes to save a stupid pigeon from a hawk. Sell me Edwards DjTj. Please. Otherwise I will probably go Green if Kucinich doesn't make it.

[Darranar]

16. Read what he has to say about Corporate America...

not an Edwards supporter, but I can admire his economic stances.

[Tinoire]

22. Agreed n/t

[revcarol]

17. You are asking the impossible.

DK is the only one who is for Israel and also for Palestine. Not
AIPAC driven.Who believes that Israel's neighbors must also get part of the water that Israel controls. Who is all for Israel's security, but not unconditionally supportive of all the killing of innocents that Israel does in the name of security. Who knows that Palestinians can stop the violence, and that it will get less as they get control of their OWN COUNTRY, including the areas where there are illegal settlements which must be dismantled.

WHY ARE YOU BEATING YOUR HEAD AGAINST THE WALL?
There is no substitute for Dennis. If that makes us outcasts, so be it.We MUST get the DLC and the AIPAC group out of this party!!

[Tinoire]

24. You're right. There is NO substitute for Kucinich

and I am totally committed to him.

I am only beating my head against the wall for the GE if enough people can't get off their ass and vote for Kucinich. He is my number 1 period.

[DjTj]

23. I will admit...

...that my support for Edwards has very little to do with foreign policy.

In addition to trade, he has very much the right idea on taxes. He wants to raise the capital gains rate for wealthy Americans and give tax credits for people who want to save. This is better than the usual "soak the rich" policies, because it actually targets those who are not working and not contributing to our economy while rewarding those who do and helping working families lead more stable lives.

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/budget-and-taxes.asp

Also, he is a mainstream "electable" candidate that will actually be able to shake up the Corporate stranglehold that lobbyists have in Washington. Out of all the candidates, he has the most aggressive plan to clean up Washington and can honestly say he hasn't taken money from PAC's or Washington lobbyists:

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/cleaning-up-washington.asp

An Edwards Presidency will be SO good for working families and will leave a permanent mark in Washington that will open things up for a more progressive candidate later on.

I put those issues above foreign policy and I look to the future. I see more change and a more hopeful tomorrow under Edwards. He would move us in a better direction than Clinton did.

[Tinoire]

28. I won't disagree that he would be better than Clinton but right now

I hold the Clintons, both of them, in such low esteem that that doesn't mean as much as it would have 2 years ago. It's a point though. A good point that he would be better than Clinton.

[RafterMan]

2. You've read the Hardball interview?

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3131295/

[Tinoire]

4. Thanks. Just printed it off and will read it on my way home.

Thank you.

[GreenArrow]

10. here are the most applicable/telling parts

MATTHEWS: If you knew last October when you had to cast an aye or nay vote for this war, that we would be unable to find weapons of mass destruction after all these months there, would you still have supported the war?

EDWARDS: It wouldn’t change my views. I said before, I think that the threat here was a unique threat. It was Saddam Hussein, the potential for Saddam getting nuclear weapons, given his history and the fact that he started the war before....

...

MATTHEWS: OK. I just want to get one thing straight so that we know how you would have been different in president if you had been in office the last four years as president. Would you have gone to Afghanistan?

EDWARDS: I would.

MATTHEWS: Would you have gone to Iraq?

EDWARDS: I would have gone to Iraq. I don’t think I would have approached it the way this president did. I don’t think-See I think what happened, if you remember back historically, remember I had an up or down vote. I stand behind it. Don’t misunderstand me.

There is more, much more, but this is plenty for me. No sale.

[Tinoire]

14. Trust me that hurts immensely but Kerry downright insults me

by pretending he was mis-led so he's totally out. All the conservatives here keep telling me to be pragmatic, be pragmatic, so I am shopping for the lesser of 2 evils to see just how much evil I can overlook.

Yes that was bad. And his stance on Israel/Palestine is unacceptable to me but at least he is clear. That's a small but important plus.

I am still not sold. Shopping...

On edit: Desperately shopping...

[RafterMan]

19. From a pragmatist

Yes, Kerry's vote was a political sell-out, yes Edwards is sticking to his guns (so to speak).

But from all I've seen, my gut instinct tells me that Kerry thinks it was a bad policy and will run against it in the GE, while Edwards thinks it was a good policy and will only be critical of the implementation. One way is standing on shaky ground, the other is freefall.

If Edwards is the nominee, I will pragmatically vote Green.

[GreenArrow]

26. I tend to agree

I think niether one was misled, tricked, fooled etc. They knew what they were voting on. I'd tend to believe that they both think it was good policy, (and Edwards has quite explicitly said so) but poorly/foolishly/incometently implemented.

I'm in a likelly safe state for Busch, so a third party vote is a real practical option for me too.

[GreenArrow]

25. you're out west, right?

California? Stick with DK. In the general, Kerry or Edwards and Bush will be the choices, but depending on the lay of the land, it might be safe for you to cast your vote for DK as a write-in. A corporatist is going to win, unfortunately, and all that really remains to be seen is which party he'll represent. As corporatists go, Kerry and Edwards are much less vicious than Bush.

[Tinoire]

29. Problem is write in votes are meaningless. They're tossed away

as if you had never voted which is why I would vote 3rd party before writing in anyone's name- even Kucinich's.

[GreenArrow]

31. well, there's not much guarantee that any of our votes really count

My mom voted for Jesse Jackson who was on the ballot in Indiana, and lo and behold, when the votes were tabulated there were no votes for Jesse Jackson in the rural township where she lives. The county tends to vote Democratic, FWIW.

Hell, I don't know what the answer is, but it isn't John Kerry, Edwards, Bush or anyone else in the "electable" class.

[DjTj]

5. This is from his campaign web site:

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/page.asp?id=104

...probably the best statement of his policy there is, but I'll post more if I find anything else.

[Tinoire]

6. Thank you. That was honestly discouraging for me

& I hope you believe my sincerity in saying that I am looking at Edwards. Kerry is totally out of the question, probably even in the GE for me but I am fighting, because of NAFTA, to decide on Edwards. This part truly distressed me:

It's good that reinforcements are on the way, but I believe that the best way to deal with this problem now would be to create a multinational peacekeeping force, led by NATO. We all know that many NATO members were deeply divided over the issue of what to do about Iraq. But now that the war is over, I believe that we have an opportunity to reaffirm NATO's importance and relevance - as well as America's commitment to the alliance -- by looking for ways to include NATO in providing security today in Iraq.

because one of the reason's we went to war against Yugoslavia was to justify the MIC's & NATO's existence in a post-Cold War world because our huge stockpiles of weaponry can't sit on the shelves too long. Between 1992 -1999 that war had already cost the international community $48.7 Billion. I don't know what the sum is by now because those soldiers are still in Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia & Croatia. There's some info about this at http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/00winter/hendrick.htm

Thank you though DjTj. I want to keep looking at Edwards because Kerry scares me more.

[Darranar]

8. All the "electable" candidates scare me...

and that includes all of them aside from Kucinich and Sharpton.

[DjTj]

11. I encourage you to work to get delegates to the convention...

The truth is that Kerry and Edwards don't differ too much on the foreign policy issues, and a lot of the foreign policy platform will probably be established at the Convention.

[Tinoire]

15. Darranar. I totally agree but now, since they want me to be "pragmatic"

I am trying to figure out which one scares me the least. So far it's Edwards. I do not want to go Green... I want to be able to vote in the GE after 3 years of fighting and learning at DU. If I cannot vote in the GE, I will hate the DNC as much as I hate the Republicans.

[revcarol]

12. No mention of doing away with American profiteering

or would that just become NATO profiteering?

Sorry, I fail to see why NATO would just come running to our aid after they told our country where to get off before. The American occupation would put THEIR troops at risk, because they would be seen as American patsies.If we got totally out, NATO might come in because they would, in a sense, be independent. But Edwards doesn't seem to address that.Just be multi-lateral,oh goody, goody.

sorry, I've had it with nice sounding platitudes.

[Tinoire]

30. Well so have I. But I am desperate to find a way to stick with the Dems

MY party, if they disregard Kucinich and kill him off.

[DaisyUCSB]

18. Rushing the transition will only come back to haunt the US and the world

that's what Bush is doing right now for political reasons. The only sane option in every reputable foreign policy expert that I've ever read is making sure that the Iraqi's have a firm handle on their country before we pull out.

cutting and running would not help Iraq or the US

[Darranar]

20. But the Iraqis WON'T have a firm handle on their country...

until the US goes out - with all its firms.

The people of Iraq are smart enough to distinguish a colonial invasion from a liberation. They realize that the only democracy the US will bring will not be a democracy in the true sense of the word, but rather a choice between a number of US/corporate puppets, the more radical of whom will be given massive aid by US firms. That is colonialism, not democracy.

One is not "cutting and running" when one ceases a colonial endeavor.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. Will it matter to you if DK endorses the Democratic nominee?

[Tinoire]

27. Honestly No... They all do the "polite" thing so it won't matter to me

Kucinich is a great man but he is not God and in the end, when I stand in front of God explaining my actions, Kucinich will not be by my side.

[revcarol]

32. Only one thing to do.

Twist your nose off, carry it in your hand into the voting booth, and vote with the other hand.

Then try to get your nose back on.My nose is just now recovering from having to vote for our Dem governor, and that was three years ago.

They say time heals all wounds.

[G_j]

33. Here in NC

we called, wrote, visited his office, pleaded, begged........

he gave us the cold shoulder. Ask any peace activist in NC, they will tell you this. Not an easy thing to get over. :-(

[Tweed]

34. Is that part of the reason why he wouldn't get reelected if he ran again?

[G_j]

35. he probably wouldn't

but not because of his support of the Iraq invasion. There is a conservative majority in NC. This is Jesse Helms country. I'm not sure how he ever got elected to begin with, but he won't be running anyway.