The front page of the Houston Chronicle illustrates my concern about Hillary's possible nomination

[Tejanocrat]

Today, the Houston Chronicle ran a great, optimistic story about the surging popularity of the Democratic Party among young Texas voters. But here's how the article began:

Ben Bronson, 18, is the kind of young voter Republicans have attracted for decades. A Texas Tech University freshman and Fort Worth-area native, he's a deer hunter who hates Hillary Clinton and opposes gay marriage. But he's disappointed with the Iraq war and stops short of identifying with the GOP.

Conrad Camit of Houston is the son of committed Republican immigrants from the Philippines. A former political independent, the Texas A&M University graduate, 33, said the war sealed his conversion to the Democratic Party.
...

Daniel Aguilar, 22, a first-year law student at UT, said he used to consider himself Republican but thought the party had lost its focus over the Iraq war and debate over gay marriage.

"It wasn't what conservatism was about anymore, that is, getting out of people's business and letting them do the right thing," he said.

We can't win statewide in Texas if we don't pick up these types of votes. And we don't pick up nearly as many of these votes with Hillary as we do with Obama or Edwards. Here in Texas, we can't afford a Hillary nomination. It will set the party back and handicap our whole ticket.

[Texas_Kat]

1. Here in Texas, you have nothing to back up your statement

Other than supposition and personal bias.

Posted on the Texas A&M football blog tonight (discussing the pending/possible ouster of the current head coach):

"Since it looks like we'll have a female President, maybe we should go with a female head coach."

FYI: The poster wasn't being funny. If we win the Senate election, it will be because Noreiga pounds Cornyn into the ground. It's doable....

[Tejanocrat]

16. I haven't commissioned a poll, if that's what you mean, but here's a discussion on the topic at

Texas Monthly, The Hillary Factor by Paul Burka:

1. Hillary's relatively unpopularity translates into a ballot test that is 4 to
5 points lower than the generic D vs. R vote.

2. Among partisans of both sides it is pretty clear she does well among Ds and poorly among Rs. It is her negatives among independents that are troubling for her. They are real and they will have some impact.

3. If the race were held today, there would be a big Hillary downballot drag. That will take tens of millions and good, smart tactics to change.

4. She won't spend any money in states where she can't win. I don't see the real media push anywhere in the South, except Florida.

[aquart]

2. We don't need those votes.

You seem to think that the Democrats are a minority party. We're not.

Count the votes, we'll be fine.

Do you really think Texans want a Mormon whose sons didn't enlist?

[Richard Steele]

5. Democrats aren't a minority party, Hillary-supporters are. HRC nomination = Guliani inauguration.

"Do you really think Texans want a Mormon whose sons didn't enlist?"

Compared to what? A military-deserting New England prep-school cheerleader
with a fear of horses and a "Skull-n-Bones" ID card?

Yeah, THAT guy got nowhere in Texas politics, did he?

[Skittles]

11. THANK YOU

I've lived in Texas over three decades and can attest to the fact I have seen more ignorance in this state than in all my other places of residences COMBINED as a USAF brat / veteran - LOTS of f***ing idiots here.

[Ethelk2044]

33. AMEN!

[midlife_mo_Jo]

38. Then you haven't lived in Louisiana

Or were just too young to realize what was going on.

[pnwmom]

36. Oh sure. All the red staters are going to love seeing all the pictures of

Ghouli in drag.

Over and over and over again.

[Richard Steele]

39. Just like they cared that B*sh was a coke-using military deserter.

When are you gonna realize that THEY DON'T CARE
about anything "their" candidates have ever done?

They live in a DREAM WORLD of cognitive dissonace
and mental self-editing. NOTHING NEGATIVE ever sticks
to "their" candidates, because the Repub voters just
pretend it doesn't exist.

Show that pic all you want- all that's gonna do is create
a backlash from people with brains enough to be offended
by such a dishonest smear campaign. Any "red staters" who are
actually OFFENDED by the idea of a man in a dress WON'T CARE
when it's "their" man.

They won't care. They never do.

[pnwmom]

3. All three are young men. The young WOMEN I know in Texas love Hillary.

We don't need ex-Republican men to win -- we need a fair vote count.

I'm sorry for Texas's issues statewide, but there's zero chance that any Democrat will win the Presidential election there anyway. No reason to let Texas voters' misogyny affect our national ticket.

[againes654]

13. None of the women I know in Texas support Hillary

and I live in Texas, so I know quite a few women here. Obviously I don't know the majority of women, but I know only one PERSON that actually supports Hillary, my sister. She is married to a repuke, so I don't know how much that is worth.

[pnwmom]

17. I have two women relatives in Texas

and they know lots of other women who support Hillary, on both ends of the age spectrum.

I would say that if your sister supports Hillary despite being married to a repuke, that means a lot.

Maybe you should get out more and meet some Democrats. They do exist, even in Texas.

[Tejanocrat]

18. I have no concern about Hillary's support among Democrats in the general election. I have doubts she

can give us "big tent" appeal to draw in independents and moderate Republicans.

This is key in Texas because if the race is along party lines, we lose by 10% (or more).

[pnwmom]

35. But do you really think any Dem could turn that red state blue?

I don't see how you could blame HRC for that. And I think she'll be fine in swing states. Most of the red states wouldn't vote for a Dem anyway.

[Tejanocrat]

43. DEFINITELY! It wasn't too long ago that Texans elected Jim Hightower and Ann Richards; those voters

remain ready to join in supporting a good populist. Hillary is a fine candidate, but she's no populist; that's for sure.

Texas voters aren't like other states' voters -- look at Ron Paul for godssake! That guy wouldn't qualify as a Republican in other states. Look at Henry Cuellar! He wouldn't qualify as a Democrat in any other state.

[againes654]

21. What gives you the impression that I don't know many?

You have no idea how many PEOPLE or women that I know, so telling me to get out and meet more is silly.

[pnwmom]

34. Sorry for the mistake, but if the women you know won't vote for Hillary

in the general election, they didn't sound like Dems to me.

[againes654]

40. I NEVER said anything about voting in the GE

all I said was the women I know in Texas don't SUPPORT Hillary.

[Romulox]

14. The perfect candidate?

Corporate credentials (to rake in the dollars!) and an undeniable identity politics appeal! :puke:

[Trajan]

4. I greatly doubt the front runner ....

is going to bow out because you think that a few GOP voter won't vote for her .....

There is so much fallacy in this assertion, it is too late to even start with them ....

But hey : You can try these :

1) Calling the Hillary campaign and kindly asking her to quit her campaign .... or

2) Call all Democratic voters and beg them to answer 'no' when Hillary's name is polled .... or ....

3) Call all disenchanted GOP voters who dislike Hillary, and beg them to vote for her ... Since this is your biggest concern, as you stated, that they dont like her .... Maybe you can try persuading them .....

Funny thing is: Most concerned Democrats worry about her triangulating drift to the right .... while you are concerned she isnt lighting a fire under disaffected right wingers ..... So what exactly should Hillary do about that ? .... Become MORE rightist ? ..... More leftist ? ..... quit ? ...

What makes you think some other Democrat other than Hillary will gain those 'lost' young, unhappy, male, Texan, Right Wing votes? .... Would Edwards ? .... Obama ? ..... Cmon .....

I am no big Hillary fan .... but I am a big fan of logic ..... It seems you present a situation that cannot be reasonably solved ..... except by ignoring those fringe GOP elements entirely .....

[Tejanocrat]

32. Who wants anyone to "bow out"? I just want primary voters to pick Obama or Edwards instead of the

candidate who will not run a 50 state campaign strategy and will cede states like Texas, which will hurt us Texans downballot.

[Trajan]

53. Not asking much, eh ?

How many Hillary Hating Texas voters are hanging out here ?

Why aren't you out there (in Texas) changing hearts and minds ?

Really ..... Who are you blaming for all this : Hillary ? .... Me ? .... DUers ? ... Polled Democrats ? .....

Why not blame Texas voters ? ....

Why not blame YOU for spending too much time asking for the Moon in DU when you could be out there convincing either; 1) straddlers to vote for Hillary, or ; 2) Democrats to poll for someone other than Hillary ....

This is a fact: We cannot give you Texas: You will have to earn it yourself ....

This is a fact: It isn't our fault ......

I categorize these kinds of threads as 'Control Threads' ..... They consist of an effort to make others do your bidding, simply by expressing anger, or abusing those who question your methods or rationale ..... It is a delusion of influence .....

Control threads make me snicker ..... Nothing can be more futile here ....

You cannot control the masses ..... Honest: You cannot .... You can only try to persuade those you meet .....

Sorry .....

[Tejanocrat]

54. This discussion is part of the process for "changing hearts and minds." You may live in a state

where the ticket will fare equally well with Hillary, Obama, or edwards on the top of the ticket.

I don't.

As best as I can tell, Hillary will be a drag on the ticket in the South and much of the West.

But it is not too late to avoid that bad fate. Dean was "inevitable" four years ago and we recall how that worked out.

Hillary would have the weak minded believe that her nomination is "inevitable" three months before the first vote is cast. She won't be the the first candidate to have peaked too early and to have inspired buyer's remorse among the early caucus and primary voters before she closed the deal.

Can her candidacy survive a third place finish in Iowa? I don't know. Maybe we'll see, or maybe she'll win Iowa and we'll struggle together as best we can. Only time will tell.

[napi21]

6. Og for gooness sake! Tiy;re talking about TEXAS!

I live in SanAntonio for 6 years. The ONLY blue part of Tx is Austin! I can't think of ANYONE who could win Pubs in 08. I mean NOBODY! No actor, no politician, no preacher (who was a Dem). I can't even think of an issue or tragedy that would unite this country now, so give up on the Pub votes. It's not going to happen!

[redqueen]

15. Not even true.

Austin is blue, sure... but so is Dallas, and (I think) Ft. Worth... and several counties down in the southwest... and out towards the west.

:hi:

[Tejanocrat]

44. South Texas is much bluer than Austin!

[redqueen]

57. Thank you!

:hi: from blood red North Texas!

[Baby Snooks]

7. Of the three...

Hillary is actually the most likely to carry the state if a Democrat can. It will really depend on who the Republican candidate is. There are moderate Republicans who may not want any more of the "non-conservative" conservatives aka "neo-con artists" and while some Democrats may not like Hillary, some Republicans might. In Texas anyway. Texas is a strange state. And sometimes "works well with Republicans" does work well for the Democratic candidate. Never say never in Texas. Or about Texas.

What may work most for the Democratic candidate in Texas is the Republican governor aka Governor Goodhair who a growing number of Republicans will never vote for again. For anything. Conservative on social issues but liberal on fiscal issues really is not conservative. Not in Texas. Even Republicans are hurting in Texas.

If nothing else Texas is certainly going to be an interesting state to watch in 2008 as it at least begins to turn purple. It's a shame the Texas legislature is not in session. Texas might turn blue if it were.

[JDPriestly]

8. You are so right Tejanocrat.

Hillary is a divider, not a uniter. Edwards, Obama or Richardson are all acceptable to Republicans who do not want to vote for Republicans because of the corruption. Hillary will just continue the corruption, and the Republicans know that as well as we do if not better. I support Edwards because I believe he is the most aware of the corruption and its causes and the most likely to fight corruption. Hillary is the least likely. She is also the least likely to gain the confidence and support of ex-Republicans. Thank you for this post.

[peacebird]

9. Bingo!

[wyldwolf]

10. For every "I don't like Hillary" statement, there is a "I DO lijke Hillary" to match it. Further..

..such was the case with John Kerry and Al Gore (who was abandoned by a few Democrats for Nader.)

[hootinholler]

24. That's why the act blue page has her raising a whopping $45 from DU.

Just sayin.

-Hoot

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. Is There A World Outside DU For You?

Just sayin.

-DSB

[hootinholler]

31. Oh, you mean that big room with the bright light?

Yeah, there is.

-Hoot

[wyldwolf]

30. uh... ok.

[MethuenProgressive]

12. Are you freakin' serious?

"We can't win statewide in Texas if we don't pick up these types of votes."

A homophobic teen hunter and a law student wishing for the good ol' days of conservatism?
You *can't* be freakin' serious...

Conrad, however, sounds like he's going to vote Democraic anyways considering the Iraq War "sealed his conversion to the Democratic Party."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. The Dems Can Get Him If They Promise To Appoint Judges Who Will Overturn Lawrence V Texas.

A homophobic teen hunter and a law student wishing for the good ol' days of conservatism?
You *can't* be freakin' serious...

[Tejanocrat]

45. You miss the point. When EVEN those goons are looking for alternatives to the Repub Party, we have a

growth opportunity.

No one is saying that we want to run homophobic frat boys for office as Democrats. But we don't want to refuse their votes, either, if they have turned away from the Repubs over the war or over some other issue.

[MethuenProgressive]

56. You miss the point: The homophobe isn't going to vote for a Democrat

Get a freakin' clue...

[Tejanocrat]

58. This suggests that you didn't even read the article we've been discussing.

[MethuenProgressive]

60. "We can't win statewide in Texas if we don't pick up these types of votes. "

This suggests you need to get a freakin' clue.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Texas Hasn't Gone Blue

Texas hasn't gone blue at the national level since Muhammad Ali was the heavyweight champion, John Travolta was Vinnie Barbarino, , Lionel Richie was topping the charts, and Reggie Jackson was Mr. October for the New York Yankees...

To lay this problem at Senator Clinton's feet is absurd...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Tell Him He Doesn't Have To Marry One

"A Texas Tech University freshman and Fort Worth-area native, he's a deer hunter who hates Hillary Clinton and opposes gay marriage."


He can marry his steer...


:rofl:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

23. I don't want those kind of voters to vote Democratic, frankly.

The Party has already polluted itself enough. Let the GOP have'em.

[nickgutierrez]

26. I don't see where Obama or Edwards picks up these voters if Hillary doesn't.

If anything, the one thing you can say about her is that she's more likely to pick up some of the votes that she'll lose from the left on old-school conservatives and moderates.

I'm not a Hillary supporter, by the way.

[cuke]

27. Vote for Lieberman

Those texans will love hime

[Tejanocrat]

46. Hillary's disadvantage isn't that she's too liberal (far from it); it's that she's too polarizing.

[cuke]

47. And Lieberman isn't polarizing

Vote for Lieberman! Your texan friends will love him

[Tejanocrat]

48. No Lieberman is polarizing and not-progressive just like Hillary. I think the soon-to-be-ex-Repubs

in Texas wouldn't care too much for Lieberman, either.

If you read the article which was documenting that even voters who the Repubs presumed they won "automatically" are being turned away by several issues, mainly the war.

How would Lieberman help with that? He's even worse than Hillary on the war.

[cuke]

49. That surprises

As far as Lieberman's Iraq position goes, I had just assumed that when campaigning, he would claim he was anti-war, just as he did when he ran for re-election and that those texans would fall for it. Maybe I should rethink my assumptions.

[rinsd]

28. The all important young white homophobic male hunter who thinks the war is winnable demographic

[Tejanocrat]

41. We should insist upon ideological purity from our candidates, not from our potential voters.

[Tejanocrat]

42. When Repubs cannot lock down the votes of young white homophobic male hunters, they are in deep shit

-- that was the point of the article.

We need to capitalize on that weakness if we want to turn any red states blue.

Hillary impedes that process of capitalizing on the Repubs' weakness, not because she's too liberal, but because she's too polarizing, and even those who are wandering from the Repub Party aren't wandering toward Hillary.

[Bake]

29. Thank you for your concern.

It is duly noted.

Bake

[Catherine Vincent]

37. Texas voting Democrat in presidential elections are hopeless. n/t

[illinoisprogressive]

50. there was a story awhile back about how Hillary poses a real problem in the west.

Her negatives in your area and west is sky high. 69%. this is very much a worry for many. We stand a small chance in the south and a fairly good chance in the west if we nominate Edwards or Obama. But, we will lose both if the party goes with Hillary.
she simply cannot win in those areas.

[Tejanocrat]

51. Not only can't she win; she won't even campaign, which is devastating to the state party.

[ginchinchili]

52. I've been making the same argument. Her nomination would be a disaster....

for the Democratic Party. It reminds me of the rare opportunity Bush had after 9/11 to unite this country and to make an honest effort of reaching out to the nations across the world to A.)come to together and recognize that peace and unity is good for all, and B.)to develop an international network to combat terrorism WITHOUT RESORTING TO IT OURSELVES. Bush blew it big time and that makes my heart ache.

Once again one of those rare opportunity is before us to start healing some divisive wounds our nation has been suffering from and to demonstrate that the Democrats simply have a better way. But with Hillary at the top of the ticket it's going to be the same old shit, new round. Another lost opportunity squandered by us dumb Americans.

I would have to add Joe Biden to your list. We need a smart, pragmatic straight shooter like him. Someone with the experience to avoid the mistakes we've been making all too often anymore, and who can get us to the other side of the chaos we're presently in in better shape than we are now. But I like Edwards and Obama. I'm just afraid Obama's Achilles' heel is his lack of experience during a time of war. It's a convincing argument the Republicans will drill into our heads until those people you're referring to in the Houston Chronicle article will be unwilling to roll the dice with the security of the United States. That's how they'll view it. They'll end up voting for Giuliani. I'm surprised Obama ran for president so soon. I was hoping he'd wait for 2012 or 2016. He'll still be plenty young, but with a lot more experience.

[Stop Cornyn]

55. Her nomination would be worrisome in ways Obama's or Edwards' wouldn't.

[ginchinchili]

59. Yeah, for a majority of Americans.

She doesn't offer enough as a candidate to accept all the baggage that comes with her.