So Hillary wants Black voters to see her possible presidency as "Another Clinton presidency"

[jenmito]

She uses her husband to get votes and campaign donations and then her supporters call it insulting to say she's running on her husband's record? Ya can't have EVERYTHING both ways!

[jgraz]

1. When has she scheduled her "Sister Souljah" moment?

Black voters should realize that Hillary will use anything -- including them -- to get elected and then discard it when it's no longer needed. I see more welfare reform in our future.

[aquart]

2. Seems like she can.

I'm sure Obama will set the voters straight.

[Catherine Vincent]

3. Where did you hear this from? n/t

[sufrommich]

13. Donna Brazille said it today on CNN,

but I haven't seen it attributed to Clinton.

[LittleClarkie]

47. Donna Brazille can kiss my grits

I have little use for the woman. She was a lousy campaign manager and she's just to cozy with people like Rove. Often enough when I hear something she's said it's destructive to us, and for little reason, like questioning how much money Kerry had at the end of his campaign when it looks like on Open Secrets that Gore had just about as much at the end.

[sufrommich]

50. I'm not defending Brazille, just mentioned it because I have yet

to see this quote attributed to Clinton .

[LittleClarkie]

88. I know. I'm just venting.

Don't mind me.

[jenmito]

25. CNN said she said it to a Black audience. n/t

[cuke]

46. And you believe CNN?

How dumb does one have to be to believe what CNN says?

[jenmito]

60. I believe video of Hillary SAYING so. Don't you? Here's the transcript as promised:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE VIEW") SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want African-Americans to feel that when I'm president, it's another Clinton presidency and we are going to be doing everything we can to get this country to be on the side of them and people who are working hard and struggling, so that they can have a better chance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0710/15/sitroom.01.html

[Ethelk2044]

62. CNN has been pushing Hillary every chance they get.

[niceypoo]

78. So, you believe nothing that is reported on CNN?

How dumb is that?

[jenmito]

81. Exactly, niceypoo.

:hi:

[cuke]

83. I believe nothing CNN says wihout corroboration

[jenmito]

86. You got your confirmation.

:eyes:

[yellowcanine]

4. seems like a logic leap there.....all Dem politicians try to use Clinton to

get votes and campaign donations, no? Has Hillary ever promoted her candidacy as "another Clinton presidency"? If you can provide a link that shows that maybe you have something. If not - no. Of course it is what it is. Her name is Clinton. What would you have her do about that? Change her name?

[jenmito]

26. Huh? How do ALL Dems. use Bill to get votes and donations? NO.

I have to wait for the transcript to come out tomorrow. I can't find a quote yet. No, I wouldn't have her change her name. But I WOULD have certain posters apologize to me for DARING to say Hillary is using Bill as a campaign tool and she's riding his coattails. One poster called it sexist saying Obama and Edwards wouldn't be where THEY are in the race without THEIR spouses as if they had coattails to ride equivalent to Bill Clinton's.

[yellowcanine]

49. Note I said all "try". They will if they can, just as they will try with ANY successful

politician with high name recognition. That is the nature of the game. You can't fault Hillary for tapping those who support her, including her husband.

[jenmito]

57. I haven't seen ANY of the Dems. TRY to use Bill Clinton to raise money or to help their campaigns.

We're talking about the primaries here. ONLY Hillary has been using Bill to try to get the nomination. Of course I can't fault her for using her husband. But to deny she is where she is because her husband is who he is is to deny reality.

[yellowcanine]

79. It is not as if you know who has asked Bill to do what. Of course he is backing Hillary. My point

was that all politicians will use people with name recognition - political, Hollywood, whatever to help raise money, campaign, etc. if that person is willing to help them. And Bill has raised plenty of money and campaigned for plenty of Democratic candidates over the years. This round he is supporting Hillary, yes. That is to be expected. But it is hardly unusual or some kind of knock on Hillary's legetimacy. I would venture to say that he actually thinks Hillary would make a good president. And Bill Clinton is certainly has enough political savvy to know that a Hillary Clinton presidency will not include Bill Clinton as co-president. It is only the poeple such as yourself who want to find fault with Hillary who are suggesting such a thing.

[jenmito]

94. Why would Bill do any favors for his wife's competition? Use some common sense!

MY point is that if Bill was NOT her husband she would not have such a lead in the polls IMO and lots of people are supporting HER because of HIM. They want to see him back in the WH. To deny that is to deny reality.

[cuke]

5. You know, HIllary did some stuff too

Hillary is running on her own record which includes the years of the Clinton presidency.

[AtomicKitten]

6. The Clintons are calling in favors.

Atlanta Congressman John Lewis, who was a key leader in the civil rights efforts of the 1960s, said he was an early supporter of Bill Clinton and admired his wife, but called Obama "refreshing" and said he would back him.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1581666,00.html

... except John Lewis just endorsed Hillary. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

[yellowcanine]

7. How is that evidence the Clintons are calling in favors?

Is John Lewis not allowed to change his mind? I think that is actually fairly insulting to John Lewis to suggest that someone with his background as a civil rights warrior would kowtow to the Clintons because they called in a favor. Maybe Hillary won him over?

[cuke]

8. What is wrong with calling in favors?

The fact that she can do so shows that she can influence the actions of members of congress. Isn't a dem president who can sway congress A Good Thing? Do some people here prefer an ineffectual democrat?

[yellowcanine]

9. That is a good point also, I was reacting to the notion that John Lewis doesn't have a mind of his

own when it comes to endorsing a candidate. I think that is insulting.

[cuke]

11. If HRC is "calling in a favor" from Lewis

then that means that HRC has DONE A FAVOR for Lewis. Don't we want dems who support dems like Lewis? Don't we want dems who support one another?

[ellacott]

14. Correct, that's how it works in politics n/t

[BeyondGeography]

15. Lewis himself said it was a call from Bill that kept him from endorsing Obama

==Both Mr. Clinton and Mrs. Clinton courted Mr. Lewis this year to earn his endorsement, according to advisers to Mrs. Clinton. Just before the Selma anniversary, Mr. Lewis told The New York Times last winter that he was inclined to endorse Mr. Obama until he received a phone call from former President Clinton. Whatever the two men discussed helped persuade Mr. Lewis to remain neutral and take more time evaluating the candidates.==

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/us/politics/12cnd-endorse.html?hp

If you take the blinders off, Hillary is running on Bill's presidency and you'd realize she would be just another candidate without his eight years in the White House, his political abilities and his network.

[cuke]

16. You avoided answering both of my questions

well done

[ellacott]

19. Exactly

Bill has the most coveted rolodex in the country.

[AtomicKitten]

21. An Obama nod followed by "courting" + phone call from the Big Dawg = arm twisting.

It's just one ginormous coinkidink.

Riiiight. :silly:

[BeyondGeography]

23. Nah...it was all about the good works Hillary has done for Lewis all these many years

We'll be provided links on that any....day...now...

[cuke]

34. What is wrong with "arm twisting"?

When the next democratic president has to convince some congress members to change their mind, do you want someone who knows how twist arms or someone who thinks their charm can convince a politician to change their position?

on edit: With the Lewis endorsement, I think we just had a contest between arm twisting and charm....and arm-twisting won

[yellowcanine]

51. Or it could just be that Bill is a persuasive guy. How outrageous of him and Hillary to use such

tactics. Trying to change someone's mind by reasoning with them! Such sleaze!

[Ethelk2044]

53. Hell No. That is why GA voters don't care who he support. They were in an outrage on a blog where I

read. They don't give a damn who he supports. They are still not voting for her.

[yellowcanine]

10. It appears that the OP may have a flame bait drive by.

[jenmito]

29. I don't even know what that MEANS.

[yellowcanine]

48. You posted a provocative post and then didn't respond to any rebuttals.

provocative post=flamebait; failure to respond to rebuttals = driveby post. Hence flamebait driveby.

[jenmito]

58. Oh, ok. Well I DID respond as soon as I got back to the computer.

Forgive me for having to leave for a while.

[yellowcanine]

80. Hmm - convenient that you only responded when you got called on it.

Normally one starts a thread with the intention of participating in it and sticks around long enough to at least answer some of the initial responses. Unless one is flame baiting, of course.

[jenmito]

87. Sorry to disappoint your theory, but I saw this near the end of the show so I started a thread...

but I had to go into bed for an hour or so (if you don't mind) like I do EVERY day at 5pm because I'm in a wheelchair and need to take pressure off so I don't get another pressure sore like I did years ago. Happy now? :eyes:

[yellowcanine]

93. I am sorry about your infirmity but it is not an excuse for flame baiting and the disrespect you

voiced about Hillary Clinton. Do you really not see that you posted a message that was unnecessarily provocative? Trashing Hillary BECAUSE she is married to Bill Cinton is just as wrong as supporting her for that reason. She is a serious presidential candidate by virtue of her experience in national politics and deserves more respect than that, whether or not one supports her (and I do not, by the way - I am voting for Obama in the primary - but there is a good chance she will be the Democratic candidate and if she is I will support her out of respect for her experience AND the decision of my fellow Democrats - not because of her relationship with Bill Clinton).

[jenmito]

96. Thank you but I was NOT flame baiting. I didn't even know what that was...

and I started the thread as a result of seeing this on CNN when a few days before this a poster accused me of being sexist for saying Hillary is running on Bill's record and she wouldn't be where she is in the polls today if it wasn't for him. I didn't see my OP as provocative at ALL. I was just stating facts (what she said) and my opinion of how she uses him when advantageous and distances herself from him when it's not. ALL that said, I will ALSO support her IF she's our nominee.

[Blashyrkh]

89. Hmmmm one wouldn't imply the OP was a liar if they were so knowledgable on flamebaiting.

Unless one is flamebaiting, of course.

[yellowcanine]

90. Look at the OP. Are you saying it wasn't flame baiting?

[jenmito]

91. First of all, I didn't even know there WAS such a thing. Secondly, did you read WHY I had to leave

for a little while???

[yellowcanine]

95. One doesn't have to know the name of the behavior to practice it. And there

is no excuse for bad behavior, whatever it is called. If you know you are going to leave for a while, don't start a pissing contest. In fact, it is best not to start them even if you are planning to stick around....

[jenmito]

97. Well, I disagree that I DID that...

It wasn't bad behavior to point out a fact and comment on it. I wanted to start a thread on what I just saw. If I had to leave for just over an hour, so be it. :shrug:

[yellowcanine]

99. I stand by my assessment. You may have had to leave, no one forced you to post a disrespectful

message that you had to know would stir things up before you left.

[jenmito]

101. It wasn't disrespectful. It was factual.

I was coming back. I DID come back. I'm still here.

[jenmito]

92. Thank you.

:hi:

[ellacott]

98. What I'm wondering is why this is a flame bait

This is an issue that many don't want to talk about but it should be discussed.

[yellowcanine]

100. Because it was worded in an insulting an disrespectful way. Look at the header, look at the

post itself. It would be possible to raise the question of the possible influence of Bill Clinton's presidency on Hillary Clinton's candidacy without being disrespectful and insulting.

[jenmito]

103. The header was a fact...not a "flame"

Sorry you disagree. That's your opinion.

[ellacott]

106. This is my question. How is the title disrespectful?

It's a topic that many here are uncomfortable talking about but it's not disrespectful or flame bait.

[yellowcanine]

109. Point is the header and the post together are disrespectful and imply that

Hillary is just using Bill Clinton's coattails to get elected. A paraphrase of a quote was used to reduce her whole candidacy to this one thing. She was reassuring African American voters that she would continue Bill Clinton's policies toward minorities - that is not the same as saying she is "using Bill Clinton to get votes" - and the implication was she has no qualifying factors other than being the spouse of Bill - which is disrespectful and insulting. That's how I see it. And I am done here because your minds are made up. You don't like Hillary. So be it.

[ellacott]

111. That's interesting

Of course she is using him. She would be foolish not to do this. I guess for me I didn't take it to mean that she has no other qualifying factors. The point I was making that almost all of you miss is that Bill has many in the African American community that are not enamoured with him. If she is reassuring African American voters that she will continue Bill's policies(which she didn't really say) that a dangerous thing to say to many people.

But of course, you all don't want to talk about this. It's easier to say that someone "doesn't like Hillary"

[jenmito]

102. That's what I'M wondering...

I guess if someone doesn't like a statement it's considered "flame bait"! :shrug:

[ellacott]

107. That's how it's looking n/t

[Cha]

108. Hmmm...as an observer and participant

on DU I can tell ya that jenmito does not do drivebys and what's so "flamebait"ish about stating a fact?

[ellacott]

12. Unfortunately these things happend all the time

The Clintons have a lot of favors to call in. It just like the reporter who was going to do a critical story on the Clinton's. Reportedly, the Clinton camp threatend to cancel a future interview with Bill.

John Lewis retracted his endorsement because of pressure from Bill. His background as a civil rights warrior has ne bearing on this.

[Catherine Vincent]

17. Bill Clinton can pressure me who to vote for anytime.

:evilgrin:

[ellacott]

20. Funny :) n/t

[cuke]

18. "The Clintons have a lot of favors to call in" because they have done a lot for dems

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. Like giving us Bush.

Thanks, Bill.

[cuke]

35. You memorized a slogan!!

I'm impressed

[jenmito]

28. Yup-a powerful ex-president like Bill Clinton can still pull some strings.

The other candidates are at a great disadvantage because of that.

[AtomicKitten]

30. word

Did you read the evolution of shuck & jive on this thread from "no, they're not" to "what's wrong with calling in favors?"

Now that's entertainment! Denial to rationalization in 10 seconds flat!

[jenmito]

33. Yeah. That was pretty funny...

they seem to learn from their leader...

[cuke]

36. That was me

and I haven't changed my position one iota. At least have the character to make baseless accusations to me directly.

[jenmito]

37. Ummm...

I don't keep track of who says what. These threads go on and on. It has nothing to do with lack of character. :eyes: You want credit for making those statements? You got it! Feel better?

[cuke]

38. If you're going to accuse someone of shuck and jive

you ought to keep track of people's names. No wonder you think someone's changed their opinion.

[jenmito]

40. I'm not the one who wrote that.

You might want to keep your posters straight. I agreed with her, though. I'm under no obligation to mention your name, am I?

[cuke]

41. So you admit agreeing with it

even though you don't keep track of who said what? Do you think that's an explanation?

I knew you didn't say it originally. You agreed with it. Same thing. You think people are changing their opinion, but you admit that you don't keep track of poster's name. And your explanation is that some one else said it first?

[jenmito]

44. Yup, I agreed with it.

Sorry if you feel slighted that I didn't keep track of WHO said it. Someone said it. I remember THAT. Sorry I didn't mention you by name, cuke. :eyes:

[cuke]

45. Not the point, but nice try

the point is, how can you tell if someone changed the argument if you don't know who said what?

It doesn't make any sense, and the fact that you won't explain why you did that makes me wonder why you won't explain it. Looks like you're doing the shuck and jive. You say people are changing their opinion, but you can't name one.

[jenmito]

59. The THREAD quickly evolved. Maybe your name wasn't used because it wasn't all about you.

A poster used your quote in part of this evolution.

[cuke]

63. Trying a new argument? It wasn't about me?

"Did you read the evolution of shuck & jive on this thread from "no, they're not" to "what's wrong with calling in favors?" "

I was the one, and the only one, who asked "What's wrong with calling in favors?"

You made a baseless accusation with nothing back up it up. You have no excuse and instead of admitting to it, you're trying to distract with another BS claim.

[jenmito]

65. Were you ALSO the one and the only one who said,

"no, they're not"?

p.s. Did you see my post above where I posted the transcript from CNN where Hillary herself said what I SAID she said?

[cuke]

66. No, and you mistakenly said I did say it

I don't know how point out your mistakes excuses them

[jenmito]

69. OK, I'm sorry if I said you said both things.

:)

[cuke]

70. It sure took a lot of posts to get you to admit that you did what you did

It's all there in black and white for you to read, It's been there this whole time you've been denying it. It shouldn't take so much time and so many posts to get you to acknowledge what you yourself said.

[jenmito]

72. Wow...thanks for being so

gracious about my apology. I didn't see any apology from you for calling me dumb for believing CNN when I posted a transcript. :eyes:

[cuke]

73. Sorry. but I question the sincerity

of an apology that had to be forced out of someone.

[jenmito]

74. Nobody forced me to do anything.

I could've gone on my merry way. Just like it seems you're doing about calling me dumb when I proved myself right by providing the transcript in post #60.

[cuke]

75. Just shows why I question your sincerity

"CNN said she said it to a Black audience."

You said this before the transcript was available. As you clearly said in the post I responded to (quoted at top of this post) you believed it, not because of a transcript that quoted HRC, but because "CNN said she said it to a Black audience".

I never said it wasn't true. I said it is stupid to believe it is true simply because CNN said so. You believed it is true simply because CNN said so. IMO, that is stupid, even if they turned out to be right

[jenmito]

77. Just shows how mean and jaded you are...

CNN is a credible news source. They said she said it in front of a Black audience. She said the words herself. It didn't show the Black audience. If you still consider me stupid and won't apologize, that says more about you than it does about me.

[illinoisprogressive]

24. She wants it both ways. embrace the good and ignore the bad.

she cannot ride on her husband's name and record unless she takes the bad along with the good.

[jenmito]

31. She wants EVERYTHING both ways...

I just hope her supporters realize this before it's too late.

[Clintonista2]

42. Just as her opponents embrace the bad and ignore the good. nt.

[zulchzulu]

27. Good liars have a commanding skill at telling you what you want to hear

Liars can tell one group of people (especially those with short-term memories) what they want to hear. Words mean nothing.

Telling black voters that the Clinton part Deux will continue more cutbacks on federal welfare participants, mostly poor women, children, minorities, and immigrants and the further impact will be felt by many low and moderate income workers.

Many of the cuts in Bill Clinton's "welfare reform" affected many social service programs, like Medicaid, school meals, summer meals, Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), food stamps, child care and other programs.

With the Bush wars that Hillary Clinton has clearly voted for, there is a great chance that black voters and their children will have to resort to signing up for the new battles that are on the horizon if the dynastic sellouts continue.

With the childhood poverty rate more than 20% in the US, it is nearly twice the rate of childhood poverty of any other industrial country. The Clintons can top that if given the chance to slice away at "welfare reform" because so many new wars need to be fought.

Is that what black voters want? is that what America wants?

[jenmito]

32. You're exactly right...

and I HOPE someone reminds Black voters of all the things you listed. Good post. :hi:

[cuke]

39. Didn't you learn from the last time?

"Telling black voters that the Clinton part Deux will continue more cutbacks on federal welfare participants, mostly poor women, children, minorities, and immigrants and the further impact will be felt by many low and moderate income workers."

Under Clinton, spending on all of those groups increased

"Many of the cuts in Bill Clinton's "welfare reform" affected many social service programs, like Medicaid, school meals, summer meals, Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), food stamps, child care and other programs."

Why yes. Medicaid spending increased as did spending on school meals, child care and other programs. And welfare reform did not affect Food Stamps. In fact, the Clinton admin sued the Giuliani over how Rudy was denying food stamps to poor people. I know about this because I worked for a charity that was involved in the lawsuit. And under the CLinton administration, poverty rates dropped

[Ethelk2044]

61. And you forgot the Most important NAFTA. Black families lost jobs

[cuke]

84. under clinton, 22 million new jobs, unemployment at record low levels

minority unemployment down, teenage pregnancy down, substance abuse down, crime down, etc

[Clintonista2]

43. You should know.

Ever since you kindly informed us how Clinton "let osama go"

[Ethelk2044]

52. Fuck that. She must think we are stupid. She better get real

[Lerkfish]

54. well, in her defense, all politicians want things both ways.

she wants to avoid any negatives from her husband's presidency and she wants to claim any positives.

shameful, yes, but par for the course for any politician.

[RufusTFirefly]

55. This just in: Water is wet

And by the way, I want you all to see this as "another RufusTFirefly post."

[Nimrod2005]

56. She is a fucking moron, and her handlers are a bunch of idiots...nt

[William769]

64. And this says all that needs to be said about you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3614157&mesg_id=3614157

[Cameron27]

104. She's such a fucking moron that her numbers keep going up,

up, up. Damned idiot handlers, they should get tossed too. :eyes:

[gorekerrydreamticket]

67. I expect that it will be another Clinton presidency...

if it happens at all...

[Ethelk2044]

68. keep dreaming.

[ellacott]

71. Most people here don't realize that some African Americans are not enamoured with him

Calling him the First Black President is actually offensive to many African Americans.

[Nedsdag]

82. It is.

Al Sharpton calls him the "first beige President."

Sadly, if she gets the nomination and picks a generic white guy, her husband will do his "Black Bill" impersonation in black churches to make sure they vote for her. After her disasterous attempt at a "black accent" in Selma, it might be a wise idea.

[ellacott]

85. Very true

I've seen Bill work in a church. He's good.
It bothers me that he gets this pass.

p.s. I like your signature. That was a great show. :)

[Carrieyazel]

76. There's she goes again, riding BC's coattails. Can't she do this on her own?

[Cameron27]

105. Of course she's going to mention Bill's presidency,

Democratic candidates usually promote the best things about a past Democratic administration. The only reason the others aren't doing it this time is because those comments would tend to promote Hillary.

[LanternWaste]

110. Right...

Absolutely. She should never mention her husband, regardless of situation, audience, or context. A politician should never point out their strengths, whether direct or indirect. Until the campaign season is completely over, Pres. Clinton should be dead to her for all intents and purposes...

:sarcasm:

But... you said she's running on her husband's record, yet you're using her "supporters" stance to illustrate an alleged double standard, thus to imply she's "having it both ways...". Gotta be honest chief-- seems that, at best you're being disingenuous.