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Barack Obama's continually shifting position on Iran...

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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:02 PM
Original message
Barack Obama's continually shifting position on Iran...
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 05:08 PM by SaveElmer
Barack is seemingly not aware of his own position on Iran, as he has gone from acknowledging Iran as a danger to troops in Iraq and supporting a U.S. deterrent in the region even as we draw down our forces, to supporting a bill declaring the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization, to a conspicuous silence on the issue during the Kyl-Lieberman resolution debate, to all of a sudden a reversal of his previous stand now declaring that Kyl-Lieberman as a prelude to war...

One would almost say presidential politics was determining his position...

November 2006 Obama made the following statement in a speech...



We would make clear in such a scenario that the United States would not be maintaining permanent military bases in Iraq, but would do what was necessary to help prevent a total collapse of the Iraqi state and further polarization of Iraqi society. Such a reduced but active presence will also send a clear message to hostile countries like Iran and Syria that we intend to remain a key player in this region... Make no mistake- if the Iranians and Syrians think they can use Iraq as another Afghanistan or a staging area from which to attack Israel or other countries, they are badly mistaken. It is in our national interest to prevent this from happening. We should also make it clear that, even after we begin to draw down forces, we will still work with our allies in the region to combat international terrorism and prevent the spread of weapons of mass destruction. It is simply not productive for us not to engage in discussions with Iran and Syria on an issue of such fundamental importance to all of us.


So he is for maintaining a military presence to deter Iranian and Syrian interference in Iraq.
http://www.barackobama.com/2006/11/20/a_way_forward_in_iraq.php

Interesting


Then in April 2007...he cosponsors Senate Bill 970, which designated the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization. A position he now disagrees with apparently...

Then just a couple weeks ago, during the debate over the Kyl-Lieberman resolution, Obama was conspicuously silent on the issue, making no effort to use his position to either alter the amendment or speak against it. Even while Hillary and other Democrats including Obama's fellow Illinoisan Dick Durbin were working to have any implication of military use removed from the resolution...an effort in which they were successful.

And of course, Obama was one of only two Senators not to vote on the resolution...the other being the perpetually absent John McCain...

Then after providing no leadership in the debate over the resolution, not working to amend or kill it, not bothering to even speak out against it during debate, and of course not even voting on it...all of a sudden he views it as some disastrous prelude to war...


...just last month, the Senate voted for an amendment that raises the risk that we could repeat the mistake of Iraq. Here is why this amendment is so reckless. It opens with seventeen findings that highlight Iran’s influence inside of Iraq. Then it says we have to structure our military presence inside Iraq to counter Iran. It goes on to say that it is "a critical national interest of the United States" to prevent the Iranian government from exerting influence inside Iraq. Why is this amendment so dangerous? Because George Bush and Dick Cheney could use this language to justify keeping our troops in Iraq as long as they can point to a threat from Iran. And because they could use this language to justify an attack on Iran as a part of the ongoing war in Iraq.


http://www.iowapolitics.com/index.iml?Article=107433

Nearly 180 degrees from the position he took in 2007...

And he wonders why he is getting no traction on the issue...


h/t hillarysbloggers.com
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. bunch of manipulative clintonian triangulating bullshit
Staying engaged in the region doesn't mean you have to join Bush in his saber rattling.

S 970 was a weapons proliferation bill that approached the Iranian problems from a different angle completely.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-970

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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Please elucidate. It looks like a distinction without a difference.
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 05:36 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
If designating the Iranian Revolutionary Guards as a Foreign Terrorist Organization is the path to Armageddon, then S 970 seems to qualify.


____________________________________

SEC. 3. SENSE OF CONGRESS.

The following is the sense of Congress:...

(8) The Secretary of State should designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guards as a Foreign Terrorist Organization under section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1189) and the Secretary of the Treasury should place the Iranian Revolutionary Guards on the list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists under Executive Order 13224 (66 Fed. Reg. 186; relating to blocking property and prohibiting transactions with persons who commit, threaten to commit, or support terrorism).

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-970

_______________________

Kyl/Lieberman amendment numbered 3017.
(5) that the United States should designate the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps as a foreign terrorist organization under section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act and place the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps on the list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists, as established under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act and initiated under Executive Order 13224;

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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Exactly. The 2 bills are not close to the same. Look at who else shifted positions
Barbara Boxer
Sherrod Brown
Maria Cantwell
Christopher Dodd
Daniel Inouye
Edward Kennedy
John Kerry
Amy Klobuchar
Blanche Lincoln
Jon Tester

All these people co-sponsored S. 970 and then voted against Kyl-Lieberman.
Are they all shifting their position?
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. um..wow.
this is so familiar: using your weakness to attack your opponent. Now, where have I seen that tactic before?

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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Even if I granted that...
Which I don't...

Exactly what leadership has Barack Obama showed on this issue...

And isn't he hypocritical for attacking Hillary on an issue he didn't even view as important enough to speak on until 9 hours after the vote...and then take a position almost the opposite of one he previously took...

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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. No more hypocritical than it is for Hillary to wait years
to criticize Bush for invading Iraq.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. clarification: she NEVER criticized his invading Iraq, just that he did it ineffeciently.
She called for Rumsfeld's ouster because he did such a poor job, NOT that the job itself was wrong.

I"ve never seen her say that the invasion was wrong on its face, a preemptive naked war of aggression against someone who was not a threat to us.

If she has said such a thing, someone please provide a link.

I've seen her say it was wrong to give Bush a blank check, but that's it.

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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. "It is simply not productive for us not to engage in discussions with Iran and Syria "
but I promise to meet with them in my first year in office to hold discussions with them
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. You're confused (again)
He's saying we should meet with them. After careful consideration (make that, after letting some time pass before she insulted Obama for embracing such a policy) Hillary says she'd do the same thing.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. Still trying to cover up Hillary Clinton's pro-war voting record I see...
Clinton voted for Bush's war on Iraq. She also voted for Bush's war on Iran.

That's all we need to know about her.

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. LOL! A supporter of Hillary Clinton trying to criticize another candidate for "shifting positions"
:rofl:

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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Five replies...
And no defense of Obama's lack of leadership on the issue...

Alot of smiley's though!!!
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Leadership? Seriously.
There's nothing to defend. Your candidate has no credibility on this issue and you know it.

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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Hillary Flip Flops on everything depending on who she is talking to.
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 06:44 PM by Ethelk2044
It makes your head spin. Because her decisions change with the wind.
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. no more lawyers in the white house. too much calculation and triangulation
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. In fairness to ALL the candidates, it's an ever-changing situation so their
approaches would change as well. Or...they're changing their answers to garner more support. :evilgrin:

Biden, you know, has made his best decision and proposal and stuck with it.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. i want a candidate that never changes a position on anything
that`s the ticket-my candidate right or wrong!
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. delete. nt
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 06:53 PM by calteacherguy
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
18. Poor hit job.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. for a better hit job
you should read hillary is 44...

http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=281

http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=284

stinky b.o.? i`m old enough to remember that and i`m sure it`s still means the same today..a really poor choice of words but what does one expect from a website that refuses to say who they are..
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. This Is A Good Thing
By having several positions he has maximum flexibility...
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
21. Bait and switch.
Hillary voted YES on the IWR for war and YES on Kyl-Lieberman for more war.

Brava!
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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. War Monger
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