Exclusive audio: Kucinich considers GOP Ron Paul as his running mate

[stuartrida]

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2007/11/exclusive_audio_kucinich_consi.html

I posted this in the other forum, but POLITICS seemed to have the most discussion about this.

[Kucinich4America]

1. Yeah, the most "discussion"

A bunch of repetitious bullshit threads, half of them started by yourself.

[Armstead]

4. maybe -- but his real answer makes a lot more sense

I don't necessarily agree with CK on this, but it is a totally reasonable answer and his reasons are totally defensible.

He is absolutely correct in that it's important to recognize that America does have two basic sides to its political template -- liberal and a conservative - and that one to move beyond gridlock is to represent both.

[stuartrida]

5. Many people attacked me

for believing the "Pee Dee" and Mrs. Kucinich. Now that we hear Kucinich with our own words, think anyone will apologize to me? I don't think so either.

So what do you think of the Kucinich/Paul idea?

[liberalnurse]

9. DK needs to join

another Political Party. He apparently has his own Jihad to nurture.

[Progressive Friend]

65. "Jihad", explain what you mean by that? It sounds Islamophobic.

[MuseRider]

20. I did not

attack you (I don't think I did anyway) so no apology but a thank you for finding something that confirms this rather than nasty newspaper out of context quotes.

Well. I know you were not asking me but I am sticking in a reply here anyway :). I agree with what he is saying but I do not agree with the choice or really do I agree that he can change much with any of the current republicans. I understand it but how does he reconcile with Paul's domestic ideas?

I am hanging on to my Kucinich avatar for now as we see how this pans out but if he does indeed intend to add Paul to the ticket I will have to take my support back.

[goodgd_yall]

49. This concerns me too

DK has dissappointed me on this. Looks like my support for Edwards will be less wavering now.

[AlertLurker]

59. I apologise if I was rude in any of my posts to you.

To be fair, however, all you had posted previously was unsubstantiated heresay from an acknowleged anti-Kucinich media blog.

I have just begun familiarizing myself with the complete works of Mr. Paul. I can't say that I am happy about this, but I appreciated Kooch's explanation. It certainly does nothing to shake my faith in the man. "He's a uniter, not a divider..." heh heh heh.

In my eyes, there really doesn't seem to be any other Democratic candidate worthy of support.

Oh yeah:

You
Were
Right.

[stuartrida]

64. I stand by the fact that Elizabeth K's statement wasn't

"unsubstantiated heresay." I could see reason to have doubt in the PD article. I guess that is water under the bridge now.
I think this shows a significant lack of good judgment on Kucinich's part, and I witnessed the same sort of thing when he was mayor. I think he is fine in the legislative branch, but not in the executive.
I hope Kucinich supporters realize that even their candidate can make really bad decisions from time to time, and lay off the "every candidate but Kucinich is a Republican" statements. Such statements are unproductive, untrue and, considering the fact that Kucinich is considering a Republican as a vice president, extremely ironic.

I appreciate your response.

[Progressive Friend]

66. These are mostly just DLC hacks pretending to be "outraged"

Because we never see this same "outrage" from them about Neocon Joseph Lieberman. That is because Lieberman is pro-war, while Ron Paul is not.

[cali]

72. you're kidding, right?

I suggest you do a search, there are numerous threads- and long ones at that- where DUer after DUer shreds Lieberman.

Suggesting that DUers who don't agree with you about the reprehensible ron paul, is pathetic.

[lvx35]

2. Who voted against the war and the patriot act?

Paul and Kucinich, none of the others. Kucinich has a lot to gain by pointing out that all the other candidates are essentially more with Bush than RON PAUL on these issues, and I'm glad he's decided to play that card.

[AtomicKitten]

3. It's all a pipe dream so why spank him on this?

I understand where Kucinich is coming from with specific reference to stopping the war, so his heart is in the right place. Unfortunately, some people are grossly misinformed about Paul's entire platform which would probably make their eyes bleed if they knew the truth. IMO, a better approach would be to post that platform to make your point.

[bunnies]

6. I think you might be giving Pauls supporters too much credit on this.

At least the few Ive talked to are VERY aware of his positions.

[AtomicKitten]

8. that's a frightening thought

:hi:

[bunnies]

12. Very.

One of them I know (a neighbor - not a friend) actually switched from Obama to Paul... if you can believe it. I no longer talk to her... she simply cant be reasoned with. Its unreal. :scared:
:hi:

[LoZoccolo]

23. Because he attacks the other candidates with said pipe.

He is completely unaccountable because he's never going to win, so he can promise anything he wants.

[AtomicKitten]

50. I'm with you on the suggestion of a mixed ticket.

that bites

[BigDDem]

7. Kucinch/Paul 08!

Back to the Gold Standard!

[mr715]

11. Nah

Pixie Dust and Thorazine.

And some cult worship chemicals to keep their supporters unapologetically uninformed and bleary eyed.


Believe the lie guys.

Kucinich is an ideologue without ideology. A social conservative once, and in his core, still one. But he sure can talk to talk. too bad hes a through and through liar.



M

[ConfidentialStatus]

18. Don't forget we can go back

to smoking marijuana as well. Because Ron Paul wants to end the War on Drugs. :)

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ConfidentialStatus]

55. That's true

Yes, He wants the Federal Gov. out and let the states decide. Actually Ron Paul doesn't say it because he's the final authority on the subject it's because he took a sworn oath to secure and defend the Constitution.

Maybe someone should pardon the political prisoners that came from California. Everyone is a potential lawbreaker to these authoritarians that are running the asylum at this time. We can't have people supporting such quaint ideas like freedom, liberty and rights.

Peace.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nederland]

34. Wahoo!!!

And back to the days of corporate domination! (Not that we aren't already there...) :eyes:

[skipos]

53. Read this and tell me why Paul is a good VP choice:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/5/193414/2787

[BestCenter]

10. Why not Kucinich/Gravel?

Or even Kucinich/Nader? There's no reason for him to join a libertarian.

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. Maybe the UFO's want him to pick Ron Paul

[LoZoccolo]

26. lol

:thumbsup:

[thereismore]

13. If Dennis speaks so highly of Ron Paul, who are the holier than thou in DU that

love Dennis so much yet foulmouth Paul whenever possible? You know who you are. Feel a little awkward now?

[skipos]

15. Hell, where are the DUers who swore Dennis never said this?

A couple of them claimed they called Dennis' campaign headquarters to get "the truth."

NO RON PAUL FOR ME.

[cali]

16. are you kidding??

I like Dennis but his friendship with Paul does make me uncomfortable. Paul's history, his voting record, his racist remarks and OpEd, and his platform have been posted ad nauseum here and in GD. There's fucking no excuse for defending Paul.

[ConfidentialStatus]

I get a kick reading comments like yours

Do you feel the same way about Clinton's friendship with Bush? :)

[cali]

31. always glad to provide amusement for the needy

if you're referring to Bill Clinton's relationship with bush pere, not I don't like it, but if you can't see the difference between that (a man who is not running for anything) and Dennis considering putting someone who is just as despicable, a heartbeat away from the presidency, well, you need more help than I'm able to provide.

:hi:

[Mike03]

17. DK lost me on this one.

Disagreeing on the war is not enough. Hating the Iraq war is not the only issue at stake here.

Even insinuating this marriage of Kucinich and Paul demonstrates despicable judgment.

But I'm glad I know now, instead of six months from now. My list shrinks by one, and my money goes elsewhere.

[asdjrocky]

19. So sad.

I've supported him strongly as my second choice here many time. I've sent him money.

No more.

[goodgd_yall]

51. Same here

He was kind of neck and neck with JE---I wavered back and forth between them, but this causes me to support JE much more single-mindedly.

[fascisthunter]

21. don't believe it

waiting for a more credible source

[stuartrida]

24. I hope you are joking

What did you think of the audio?

[onenote]

25. so you think this is a bogus tape?

[The Magistrate]

27. It Is A Tape Of The Man Speaking, Sir

What would you consider credible, if that is not?

[inthebrain]

30. The Plain Dealer DID lie

I didn't hear the whole entire question because of the noise. I did hear them mention CABINET or VP. The PD story just mentioned VP.

Hillary Clinton mentioned Powell as an appointment recently.

I don't hear anyone jumping ship over that !!!!!

As I see it, I've heard far worse examples of triangulation from Biden, Clinton and Edwards over the years. If I should choose not to vote Kucinich I'm prolly not voting for those guys. I may just stay home.

[cali]

35. look, I think people are making too big a deal out of this.

I don't believe Dennis is serious. I think he's just trying to tap into the NH indie/libertarian pool that likes Paul. And that's politics. But just to keep matters straight, Clinton did not suggest appointing Powell to anything; she proposed using him as a "goodwill ambassador". Surely you know what that means? I don't like it. I think it was political posturing, but it's not the same thing as considering running on the same ticket with him.

And if staying home is what you need to do, do it.

[balantz]

38. So he chooses a new base of support

at the risk of losing his faithful Liberal Democrats?

[The Magistrate]

40. A Distinction Without A Difference, Sir

A willingness to consider Paul either as Vice-President or for a Cabinet post is a willingness to associate with a racist troglodyte of the worst order available in our nation's political life. Powell, for all his major flaws and failings, is a figure of very different character: he is a liar and a weakling, and very over-blown as a military thinker, but he resides pretty near the center of our nation's political life, and does not embody the sort of armed Randite and racialist reaction Paul does.

[sufrommich]

42. I think they need you over on this thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3767933

Yuck.

[inthebrain]

69. I Powell resides near the center

then the center is royally fucked.

I don't like Ron Paul and most likely wouldn't vote for a Kucinich/Paul ticket. With that said, Paul did mention the other day that he would support most of Kucinich's domestic agenda provided spending was cut in the right places.

But as far as being a racist is concerned, Biden and Hillary have been known to dance with them as well. Hillary should have rejected Rupert Murdoch's endorsement. That dude is MUCH WORSE then Ron Paul if not equal.

Biden actually invoked the name of fucking Raygun in the last debate. The great president who once laid a wreath on Nazi graves. And that dude has also had more than his fair share bigoted remarks come flying out of his mouth as well. Not only that but Pat Robertson and his evangelical pals ain't on the up and up either.

See, when the "viable candidates" dance with bigots and play patsy to Republicans it's called "smart strategy". Yet, if Kooch thinks about it yall start pissing your pants.

There's something very wrong with that.

[The Magistrate]

71. People Are Trapped By Their Brand, Sir

A preacher sermonizing about family values gets no slack if found in bed with a parishioner's wife; the lead singer of a rock band found in bed with a roadie's wife gets a shrug and a 'what did you expect?'

A man running as the avatar of leftism and the 'One True Democrat' in the race cannot state a willingness to join a hard right reactionary Republican on a ticket or in his administration without finding himself in the predicament of the lecherous 'family values' preacher; the dissonance between the cultivated pretense and the exposed action is too great.

A person running as a pragmatic, do what it takes to win and get things done in office type, and actually in striking distance of victory, does not create such dissonance by engaging in calculated statements and actions that anyone can see may siphon off voters normally committed to the opposition, and weaken the resolve of opponents across the aisle. That is exactly what people expect of them, and as is generally the case when people appear to run true to form, they will praised for such things.

"Sincerity in social relations is absolutely fatal, it is like putting a steel girder into a house of cards."

[inthebrain]

74. Kucinich is the one true Democrat in this race

His record states that much.

Toying around with the idea of having Ron Paul as VP or cabinet member is entirely different than actually doing it. That's my point.

Biden, Hillary, Obama and Edwards are running to the left of their records. Yhey deserve to be hauled out on the carpet for that. More so, they capitulate and cave to bigots WHEN THEY ACT!!! Particuarly in the case of the Florida election in 2000 and the widespread shenenaigans of 2004.

Dennis OTOH is the only one up their that stood up for the Democratic Party's constituents. Everyone else on that stage did absolutely nothing and when they did in 2004, they refused to decertify the election results.

On the issue of illegal immigration Biden, Clinton, and Edwards are also capitualating to bigots and racists as well. Not to say that everyone that takes issue with it but the folks that are the driving force behind very much fucking are.

And the same with the issue of gay marriage and GLTB rights. It's great that after "don't ask don't tell" some of them are saying something about it.

I think Dennis is rightly critisized for considering Paul but I'm not gonna go over board on it. I see much worse and have seen much worse in the other candidates over the years. All I can say is that at least when Dennis acts he doesn't cave to them.

[The Magistrate]

75. Not Any More, Sir, Not For Agitprop Work, At Any Rate

Now he is just the fellow who thinks the favorite of posse comitatus militiamen is just what this country needs in its Executive, for anyone who wants to pick up the stick he fashioned and handed to them with his own mouth, handle first. it does not matter whether it is true, it is true enough for the purpose it will be used for, and there is no good defense against it.

[inthebrain]

76. How does this changs his actual stances on the issues?

He never claimed to agree with Paul. And again, the others in this race are more prone to falling for the agenda of Ron Paul which you claim to detest. Kucinich agrees with some of Ron Paul's foreign policy agenda and Paul has also said if those were dealt with he's cave to Kucinich's domestic agenda.

But on the issues Kucinich talks the talk and walks the walk. He doesn't cave and capitulate.

[denem]

77. "there is no good defence against it"

It fractures the mirror that people hold up to Dennis and see themselves.

[The Magistrate]

78. In This Sort Of Thing, Sir, Appearance Trumps Substance Every Time

My comments are simply analysis of the pickle the gentleman has brought upon himself, containing neither opposition to him or support for him or others. This is now the story of his campaign: those who do not like him will not let it go, and there will be no means to make them do so his supporters can avail themselves of. The bumper sticker will be "Kucinich/Paul? Right....", perhaps amplified for certain markets as "Kucinich/Paul? Right...the Left ticket...."

[OzarkDem]

62. Kucinich says nothing about Paul as a running mate

he only speaks of him in context of other candidates talking about their cabinet and administration.

I would challenge anyone to find the excerpt where he says he's considering Paul for VP.

[gateley]

44. A more credible source than Dennis HIMSELF? Huh? nt

[Freddie Stubbs]

57. It was the UFOs using mind control to make him say this

;)

[frogmarch]

22. How depressing

Just when I was starting to really, really like Kucinich, he pulls this. Ron Paul? pfffft!

[balantz]

28. If it's true

then D.K.'s no longer my second choice.

[stuartrida]

29. Did you listen to the tape?

[balantz]

32. Yes I heard it.

I only said "If this is true" for the benefit of those who are holding out hope that the recording is a bogus one, though I really don't think it's bogus.

[flvegan]

33. It's funny that 3 seconds of a 3 minute answer are all that's commented on.

He does have a reason. Don't know how much I like it, but I have to say that having a split ticket has worked in the past.

[balantz]

36. Not in today's world

[gateley]

45. When did a split ticket work before? That's interesting - I didn't know that.

I'm somewhat embarrassed I wasn't aware of this... Thanks.

[Hippo_Tron]

63. Harrison/Tyler, Lincoln/Johnson

The funny thing about those split tickets is that in both instances the VP ended up becoming President. Tyler was actually an okay President, and Johnson was a horrible one (although the impeachment charges brought against him were bullshit).

[gateley]

67. Thanks -- I need to brush up on my presidential history it seems. Or just hire

you as a tutor! :hi:

[superkia]

37. I would vote for a pro constitution ticket at a time when we are...

losing all of our rights to a corrupt system that only wants to destroy the America we know and fulfill their dream of a new world order. We could easily get them out of office in 4 years if we were unhappy with what they were doing because the system would gladly go to a Bush or a Clinton to continue their agenda for the elite. Instead we Americans talk about some change is better than nothing at all and would never vote for that ticket. I think the constitution, our rights and our freedom are at stake and we need someone in office that will GUARANTEE us that WE are who the represent, not the elite, powerful and corporations. Right now, who is out there that has stood up and showed us they represent us? Its just too bad that most Americans are in the dark on what is happening to our country and our rights and wont stand for themselves until it is too late.

[ConfidentialStatus]

46. Amen!

Now if others could see the light.

Freedom and Liberty! :toast:

[cali]

73. may the gods of rationality visit you

may you learn something about the Constitution, and thankfully, there aren't enough people who would ignore ron paul's REAL history/voting record, to pose any threat to the rest of us.

[BigDDem]

41. Who's party nomination does DK think he is going to get?

[mikelgb]

43. K & R

scoff if you will but it sounded reasoned and a little tongue in cheek at the same time

I don't like Dennis any less because of this

[tritsofme]

47. Both of these guys have a better chance getting a sitcom together

Than having any remote chance at their respective nominations.

[BigDDem]

48. Mork & Mindy

meet Dennis & Paul!

[cuke]

52. It's official - Dennis is a moran

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. Why Are We Dissing Dennis Kucinich

I have a better chance of playing for the Miami Heat than he has of winning the nomination...

[hayu_lol]

58. Democratsincebirth, no one is dissing Dennis...he is quite capable of doing...

that to himself.

Psychologically, we are dissing his supporters...and their actions.

[Freddie Stubbs]

56. Then why were DUers saying that Kucinich's campaign was denying this?

:shrug:

[OzarkDem]

61. He says nothing about Paul as his running mate

The only context in which he speaks of Ron Paul is in the context of choosing a cabinet or administration - not as a running mate. He speaks of how he admires Paul for his consistent opposition to the Iraq war.

Its a perfect example of how the Plain Dealer takes a general statement that a candidate makes and adds their own embellishments to make it seem as if its something it isn't.

Typical Pee Dee dirty tricks. What more can you expect from a newspaper that refused to cover the GOP Coingate scandal for nearly 6 months.

[ISUGRADIA]

68. "think how it would unite the country to have a Democrat and a Republican on the ticket"

He's talking about Paul and then says that...and that's not talking about Paul as a VP? Please

[cali]

70. why should anyone believe anything you say about this???

You posted that the Kucinich campaign completely denied that Dennis had said anything about Paul being his VP? Who am I gonna believe? You, or my own two ears?

This is an audio tape. with dennis talking about paul as his vp.


give it up. already.

[Freddie Stubbs]

79. Why would the Kucinich campaign lie to OzarkDem about this?

:shrug:

[cali]

83. Or.....?

[Freddie Stubbs]

84. No, I refuse to beleive that a DUer would lie about this

It has to be the Kucinich campaign which is not telling the truth.

[1corona4u]

80. Wow...no denying that now....n/t

[bluetrain]

81. Dennis said yesterday that Kucinich/Paul ticket would never happen.

[Emit]

82. Do you have a link for that? Thanks. n/t

[bluetrain]

85. I don't have a link to the audio. I heard it on the radio yesterday on this

http://www.ktlk.com/pages/On_Air_Hosts.html?feed=119597&article=1779382

guy's show.

[MrsT]

86. Dennis has ruled it out because Ron Paul passed

There are new threads today with the audio. This still bothers me quite a bit.