Michigan and Florida stripped of Delegates by DNC

[K Gardner]

Thread is up already about Michigan, but I did not know about Florida. Sorry if this has already been discussed in regards to both states. What impact/implications with this?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/25/AR2007082500275.html?hpid=topnews

DNC Strips Florida Of 2008 Delegates
No Convention Slots Unless Later Primary Is Set

By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, August 26, 2007; Page A01

The Democratic National Committee sought to seize control of its unraveling nominating process yesterday, rejecting pleas from state party leaders and cracking down on Florida for scheduling a Jan. 29 presidential primary.

The DNC's rules and bylaws committee, which enforces party rules, voted yesterday morning to strip Florida of all its delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention in Denver -- the harshest penalty at its disposal.

[floridablue]

1. Hotels ?

I understand from coffee shop gossip that the DNC did not reserve any hotel space for Florida delegates. When does Dr. Dean's term run out at the DNC ?

[K Gardner]

2. This is beyond my comprehension.. guess I'm just too naieve

to believe that everyone's vote should count.

[CTLawGuy]

11. why don't you ask MI and FL dems

why they don't care enough about your right to vote to schedule a primary that is within the rules of the DNC?

I'm sick of this argument. I can't walk in on October 30th and demand to vote when the election is Nov. 6th, and then claim I was "disenfranchised."

[ChiciB1]

13. As One Who Lives In Florida... I'm Very Upset With What Nelson & Others

have done. Instead of blaming Dean, why not put the blame where it actually lies?? The rules were set and Florida & Michigan decided they didn't WANT to adhere to what those rules were.

I personally don't like Nelson very much, he just sticks his finger up and then decides how the wind is blowing. I've seen him do it too many times. Had he had a different candidate to run against in the last election BESIDES "Cruella" Katherine Harris, I would NEVER have voted for him,

The DNC is the DNC, Democratic NATIONAL Committee, and I don't understand why so many have gone against Dean for following the DNC rules!! Florida has been screwed up for so long now I'm beginning to think it should become a state unto itself! So many Democrats in power here seem even "lighter" than the DLC'ers!

I'm stuck here and have to deal with it all the time, but I will say it has caused me to lose even more faith in the Democratic process and I have decided that I'm not their kind of Democrat. I have tried to stay active, but I feel after this election that it will be time for me to opt out. Being an activist here, especially in my county is basically going to one meeting after another. I still work for some of the National Coalitions because they afford much more diversity, but it has become more and more difficult to be active locally.

Just how I see it and it does make me sad!

[1corona4u]

20. The Florida Dems..

did all they could. See my post below.

[ChiciB1]

23. I Saw It After I Posted... Still I Don't think Nelson Is Correct & I Don't

like how he's going about it. AND Karen Thurman isn't exactly my kind of Democrat either!

[ChiciB1]

27. Just Another Thought Here... Even IF The Dems Fought "Super" Hard...

why blame Howard Dean??? Maybe I'm just plain worn out with all this negativity and find myself fighting back all the time. I don't know where you live and perhaps you are in a more Progressive County, but THIS COUNTY has been "Red" for as long as I can remember. There have been many issues that have upset me here, and I've become cynical and apathetic about the process.

[1corona4u]

31. Because....

In my opinion, he just significantly weakened the entire democratic run. Unless of course that they don't care that the rest of US may not like their nominee choice...that's how I see it. See, to me, it makes all the difference, and here is why. None of the votes in Florida will count. I reregistered to vote for Biden in the primary, before I knew all the details of this. With a candidate, who is at the bottom of the polls, and the votes in Florida, and MI now not counting, it will not help his, or any other candidates run. Dare I say, intentionally narrowing the pack? I have felt for a long time that they want the nominee to be Hillary.

And, yes, I am in a blue county.

[ChiciB1]

34. I KNOW They Want Hillary... But I Don't Think They Are Thinking About

those of us who want to vote for someone else. I'm just not sure the Democratic Party here in Florida have been taking Democrats who don't "side" with them seriously. In fact, I don't think they really care WHAT I think!!

When I moved to Florida, Reuben Askew was the Governor, there was a sweet little old man named Claude Pepper who seemed to work pretty hard for the elderly too. Yes, I was very very young, but these are some memories I have. If Bob Graham was still active I don't think we would have sunk so low. I actually think Graham saw the writing on the wall and decided he'd had enough! I sure wouldn't blame him if that's what he thinks either.

Florida equals corruption as far as I'm concerned. I just got an email from Christine Jennings telling me that the "fight" isn't over about the lost votes in the LAST election, while she invites me to a function where the minimum donation is $500.00! Don't know who she thinks she's talking to, but I don't have that kind of money! I helped after 2006 to get to the bottom of the missing votes, so now that issue isn't solved and she's starting her new campaign.

Jennings was a person who had the best chance I've ever seen for a Democrat to get elected in this county, and SHE was a former Repuke! I actually voted for the other candidate in the Primary!

You see, I don't think MY vote will count ANYWAY! I'm not just saying that to be cute or sarcastic, it's just how I feel these days! Obviously, they don't CARE what Dean thinks anyway and I'm more comfortable with him than I am with these people here in Florida!

Hey, it may be HILLARY not matter what... Meet The New Boss, Just Like The Old Boss! I'm sorry, but I'm just getting that cynical and while I DON'T want it to be true, thoughts run through my head about Hillary that aren't all that complimentary. This coming from a person who once felt she would be GREAT!

[Orangepeel]

33. I think it is disingenuous of them to pretend they did everything they could

there have been internal squabbles within the Florida Democratic party for years about how to increase their influence. Those in the party that wanted to gamble on moving the primary in the hope that the DNC wouldn't enforce the rules won, and the party did very little to try to stop it. Geller didn't even pretend to argue for his amendment.

[slick8790]

58. No, they did not do all the could.

In fact they did as little as possible to stop it.

Madfloridian has quite a few journals about this, I suggest you give them a read

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

Florida house member Dan Gelber:
"Of course we didn't fight against the bill. When the Republican leadership made it clear that this was their priority, Democrats had two choices: support something their constituents support and that was going to become law anyway; or support the DNC Rules Committee enforcement of a primary system that our constituents revile. For me, this decision was easy."


http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

"House Republicans and Democrats passed the earlier primary bill (HB 537) by a 115-1 vote - a challenge to the national parties that are wielding threats in an attempt to prevent a nationwide race for earlier and earlier primaries."

One hundred and fifteen to one. That's not doing all they could. That's not even token resistance. They made a power grab and are rightfully being smacked down. The DNC has offered to help florida Dems organize a caucus on or after Feb. 5, but to no avail. No, I don't agree IA and NH should always be first. Personally, I think we should rotate first primary states randomly. But right now is not the time to do it, after they signed the rules. No sympathy here. They broke the rules, and they pay the price.

[HooptieWagon]

26. Yes, Nelson and Thurman

went along with the Fla Pukes to move the primary up - they put up no fight. And.. the last election there WAS an Independent running against Nelson and Cruella - he had a good platform and I voted for him, that was my only non-(D) vote... and I may have a few more non-(D) votes come next Nov. The Fla Democratic party is worse than the DLC, all they care about is individual power, they have little interest in actually representing us or helping other D's.

[ChiciB1]

28. I Know... The Independent SHOULD Have Run As The Democrat He Is!! He

was very much better, and I should have voted for him, but given all the fraud here I didn't want to give "The Witch" a hint of a chance!

[dragonkeep]

64. I am a Floridian and mad as hell...

That said, the state legislature, a strong Republican majority, is the body that passed the early primary. If all the state Dems had voted against this it would still have passed. I'm very angry that we are being penalized, read "Denied our vote" over something we had no control over.

[aquart]

3. Not for many years, I hope.

Since Florida has disgraced itself in election after election, this latest grab for power deserves every sanction thrown at it.

I'm thinking if we give Spain a billion dollars, will they take Florida back?

I don't know wtf Michigan thinks it's doing.

[1corona4u]

6. Not soon enough...

and the Florida republicans knew just what they were doing;

Who sets the date for the Primary?
The state-run Presidential Preference Primary date is set by the Florida Legislature. In the 2007 regular legislative session, the Republican Speaker of the House made it a priority to move up the Primary to January, in violation of both Democratic and Republican National Committee Rules. The Legislature passed the bill, which also included the requirement that all Florida elections have a paper trail starting in 2008. Governor Charlie Crist signed the bill into law in May.

So what's all the fuss about?
Florida, like every other state, is required to submit a ‘Delegate Selection Plan for the 2008 Democratic National Convention' to the Democratic National Committee (DNC) explaining how and when the state will pick and apportion its delegates for the presidential nominating process. Florida has 210 delegates. We submitted our Plan earlier this year, and the DNC found it to be in non-compliance with DNC Rules because our Primary date does not comply with the schedule ordered by the DNC's rules. Therefore, they have issued a 100% reduction of our delegates to the national convention.

Why didn't you follow the Rules?
Our Primary date, as determined by state law, violates one part of the Rules because it comes before February 5, 2008. The DNC only allows Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina to go before February 5, but Florida law set ours for January 29. The DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) is the only body that can grant final approval of our Plan.

nThe DNC says that Florida could have applied to hold an early primary when it was developing the calendar, but didn't. Why not?
In Florida, the Legislature is controlled by Republicans. Democrats must prioritize what they work on to achieve the best they can for Floridians. An early primary was never a priority for Democrats, who were and are more concerned with issues such as insurance reform, healthcare for children, and improving our schools. The first that Florida Democratic legislators heard of the Republicans' plan to move the primary was in November 2006, when Speaker Marco Rubio announced it. That was well past the deadline to apply to the DNC to hold an early primary.

The Rules say you had to try to stop the primary move, but Democrats voted for the law. What gives?
Initially, before a specific date had been decided upon by the Republicans, some Democrats did actively support the idea of moving earlier in the calendar year. That changed when Rubio announced he wanted to break the Rules of the Democratic and Republican National Committees. Following this announcement, DNC and Florida Democratic Party staff talked about the possibility that our primary date would move up in violation of Rule 11.A.

Party leaders, Chairwoman Thurman and members of Congress then lobbied Democratic members of the Legislature through a variety of means to prevent the primary from moving earlier than February 5th. Party leadership and staff spent countless hours discussing our opposition to and the ramifications of a pre-February 5th primary with legislators, former and current Congressional members, DNC members, DNC staff, donors, activists, county leaders, media, legislative staff, Congressional staff, municipal elected officials, constituency leaders, labor leaders and counterparts in other state parties. In response to the Party's efforts, Senate Democratic Leaders Geller and Wilson and House Democratic Leaders Gelber and Cusack introduced amendments to CS/HB 537 to hold the Presidential Preference Primary on the first Tuesday in February, instead of January 29th. These were both defeated by the overwhelming Republican majority in each house.

The primary bill, which at this point had been rolled into a larger legislation train, went to a vote in both houses. It passed almost unanimously. The final bill contained a whole host of elections legislation, much of which Democrats did not support. However, in legislative bodies, the majority party can shove bad omnibus legislation down the minority's throats by attaching a couple of things that made the whole bill very difficult, if not impossible, to vote against. This is what the Republicans did in Florida, including a vital provision to require a paper trail for Florida elections. There was no way that any Florida Democratic Party official or Democratic legislative leader could ask our Democratic members, especially those in the Florida Legislative Black Caucus, to vote against a paper trail for our elections. It would have been embarrassing, futile, and, moreover, against Democratic principles.


http://www.fladems.com/page/content/makeitcount-faqs/#q4

[K Gardner]

9. Thank you for this info !! n/t

[madfloridian]

24. The party does not deserve a chairman who really cares...

about people outside of DC.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. I propose AMNESTY for outlaw states. (and set up some randomized system later)

[K Gardner]

5. Outlaw states.. rogue states.. what to do! LOL n/t

[wyldwolf]

7. yes, and Mr. Dean's days at the DNC are numbered

[madfloridian]

17. Did you see the closing at the DNC meeting yesterday?

Just wondered. He got standing yells of 4 more years....but he doesn't sound like he would take them up on it.

Hillary will pick Harold Ford or Simon Rosenberg, or perhaps even James Carville, the loyal.

[tritsofme]

18. I certainly hope so.

nt

[madfloridian]

21. Hillary will be in charge.

of the whole party.

[ChiciB1]

29. Your Presumptions Just Made Me Want To .... RUN!!! I'm Doing What

I can to help another candidate besides Clinton! Once a supporter of hers (a long time ago) I now find her last on my list! I can only WISH that more "boomers" like me will see the light! Most of the elderly will vote, and they will vote for who their "neighbor" tells them to. And yes, there are many elderly who are intelligent and informed, but I think there are more who will just go along with what MSM tells them. And right now, it's ALL Hillary for the most part!

Pretty sad!

[MaineDem]

55. I don't think he'll be back

If we win...sorry, when we win, the new President will want his or her person in there. If we lose, well, then he's toast.

[madfloridian]

66. He's already toast.

But he tried.

The money party won. We knew it would.

[madfloridian]

68. And you know, it is just as well.

I think a lot of us have seen a side of the party lately that is not what Democrats should be. I am not sure any of it could have been changed.

Best he be absorbed into the DC culture and at least get something out of all his efforts.

[madfloridian]

25. wyldwolf, you gave you the power to say that?

Just wondering.

Hey, I don't give a you know what anymore. I don't trust the party leaders in Florida, I do trust Dean.

[2rth2pwr]

8. Why set themselves up for calls of "disenfranchising voters"

in these 2 states?

[ClarkUSA]

10. It means that state parties cannot get away with messing with Howard Dean's DNC.

Go HOWARD DEAN!

[William769]

12. Howards Deans DNC will be nothing but a footnote in history after the next general election. NT

[madfloridian]

22. And Willy769 and wyldwolf and all the dlc folks will cheer.

They will have their little party back again. All to themselves because the rest of us are tired of the arrogance.

You want it, you got it.

[ChiciB1]

30. Couldn't Have Said It Better Myself... Wait A Little Bit And The REST Of

"their" gang will be here to chime in!

[knight_of_the_star]

61. I second that MadFloridian

They can have their party all to themselves.

And they can wonder why History will damn them to the same hot place Neville Chamberlain is roasting in right now.

[KoKo]

36. I take it you don't believe in rules and abiding by them "William?"

You like the Bushie Way much better...right? :shrug:

[ClarkUSA]

37. I hope the two-for-one Clintons will be nothing but a footnote in history after the primaries.

And I'm not the only one.

[William769]

40. Hardly.

BTW, to my original comment, i'm not the only one either.

[madfloridian]

41. And that, Willy697 , is the sad part of it all.

That people like you are pulling for Dean to fail in enlarging the base of the party.

Just plain sad.

Your agenda does not include a wider base apparently.

[William769]

43. As I have stated many times, my agenda is for all votes to be counted.

But some people seem to have a problem with that little fact.

Yes it is just plain sad when two of the largest electorial States are told to go Cheney yourself.

Your agenda does include a smaller base, and you can't change that fact.

[madfloridian]

44. You did not address the real issue. You just told me your agenda.

Your agenda is not the issue. The issue is rules, law, and order....and Florida and Michigan flaunted their power.

My agenda is truth and honesty, no matter what.

[William769]

45. Your agenda is a smaller base, why can't you admit it?

DO you want the DLC? DO you want Conservatives in the party? In fact do you want anyone who disagees with you? Like I said you want a smaller base.

And as for "Florida and Michigan flaunted their power." Yes they will, and thats when Dean becomes the footnote.

[madfloridian]

46. I agree with what Dean said about the DLC recently

He said they are a group with great ideas at times, and they should stick to that and not get involved in supporting or putting down candidates.

The DLC has the power and the money, and they have been the ones who don't want the base.

Remember? That is why they were founded.

[William769]

47. I won't rain on your parade for wanting to kick people out of the Democratic party.

So I will leave you with this thought. When something is broke, you fix it, some have had enough of the status quo on who goes first. And as for laws, when you have a bad law you get enough people to change it, and trust me it's coming.

[madfloridian]

48. STOP saying I want to kick people out. That is a lie.

I want them to stick to their tax-exempt status and not mess in the election process.

[William769]

49. So then you want the DLC? Conservatives?

And people who disagee with you. if thats the case then act like it.

On edit: "and not mess in the election process." :rofl: thats priceless! tell that to Florida and Michigan voters!

[madfloridian]

53. I spoke of tax-exempt status of the DLC....

And the press conference they had to announce that Dean would not be the one to be nominated.

But then you already knew that.

The DLC is a think tank only, and they have no right declaring themselves the policy shop of the party, and Ford did that.

You know exactly what I am talking about. And I know the ones who are trying everything, even lawsuits, to undermine party change and bring Dean down. Names, places, reasons....many of us are just plain not as stupid as you think...

[William769]

54. And yet you refuse to answer the question.

It's been asked twice. So I guess it's not a lie.

[madfloridian]

56. What question do you want answered?

.

[William769]

59. All you have to do is read our little exchange.

[madfloridian]

60. I did read it, and I still don't know which question you demand I answer.

You pull this on me all the time.

[William769]

62. Then I suggest you practice your reading comprehension.

:eyes:

[madfloridian]

63. What a copout, Willy 967

Ask the question again. Stop the accusing of vague things.

[William769]

65. Your the cop out any one reading this exchange can plainly see that.

your passive aggressiveness needs some work. :rofl:

[madfloridian]

67. Well, at least I don't try to take people down by suing them to death.

I just express my opinions.

[William769]

69. You just want to deny the their vote.

Good luck with that!

[madfloridian]

70. I need luck cause I don't have money to sue people.

Luck is much needed.

[1corona4u]

16. Yes, but you miss the whole point...

I guess if you lived in a red state, and your republicans started fucking with your election date, it'd be a who different story, now wouldn't it.

FUCK HOWARD SCREAMING DEAN.

[tritsofme]

14. Big deal, after Hillary wrestles control of the DNC away from Dean

After she wraps up the nomination, the Florida and Michigan delegates will be welcomed back in the interest of party unity.

[Joe the Revelator]

15. Its like some of you live in a strange snow globe...

Where Hillary still seems like a viable candidate who would have the support to do something like that.

[madfloridian]

19. McAuliffe threatened Michigan's delegates in 04...nobody got mad at him?

Why is everyone so pissed at Dean?

:shrug: :shrug:

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.

Expletives were flying. The head of the Democratic National Committee was having it out with Sen. Carl Levin because Michigan wanted to crash the rarefied club of early presidential primary states.

Move your primary too early, Terry McAuliffe warned, and Michigan will lose half its delegates to the 2004 Democratic convention.

"The closest they'll get to Boston will be watching it on television," McAuliffe vowed. "I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state. The rules are the rules."

Why didn't people jump his butt? :shrug:

[Vickers]

32. This Floridian is enjoying saving donation money during the primary season.

:P

[KoKo]

35. DNC was correct to follow their policy in this. With all the lawbreakers out there

from BushCo to Wall St.. shouldn't our Dem Party Rules stand for something? If we don't follow the DNC/Party's rules then we are part of the same broken system. :shrug:

[Carrieyazel]

38. Its exactly the right decision. All they had to do was go to the earliest possible date in Feb.

Like the other states did. But they would not. They went extra early to disrupt the process, and now they have paid a big penalty for it.

[ChiciB1]

39. Tis Very True My Dear... Tis VERY True! And I'm With Dean!! n/t

[1corona4u]

42. So, I guess you all are ok with rigged elections...

nice...

[Beacool]

50. I think that they are making a BIG mistake!!!

Particularly with regards to Florida. Florida could swing both ways and it would be a pity if we lose the state to the Republicans thanks to the DNC and Dean. Many Floridians may be too angry to actively campaign for the nominee after this rebuff. Hopefully not........

[Bodhi BloodWave]

51. Then maybe the democratic leaders

in Florida should have considered that before breaking the rules and facing the punishment they knew would happen when they did so.

If those states wanted to change the rules they had ample time to do it before the run up to the election, they waited because they assumed the DNC would back down in fear quickly. Instead the leader stood by the rules and the states got the punishment the rules state

[madfloridian]

57. Sorry, but Florida Democrats did this on purpose.

They planned it since early 2006 with the GOP.

They deserve what they got.

[MaineDem]

52. A serious thought

Why are the delegate-rich states all rushing to be early?

Wouldn't they be better to wait until March or April when people might have forgotten about the four early states? Then places like CA, FL, OH, MI, TX, NY and the other big states would be bloody relevant with so many delegates at stake. Any wins in those state could and would negate the early results. And you know the candidates would campaign in those states.

I think the DNC was right when they tried to get states to move later in the process by awarding bonus delegates to states that moved later. They did try to avoid the frontloading but states all wanted to "be first" after the four pre-window states.

Can you imagine what would happen if CA, FL, NY, TX, PA, NJ, OH, and MI all had their primary in, say, mid-April?

[butterfly77]

71. Start emailing the DNC...