How many students from Illinois will it take for Obama to win in Iowa?

[MethuenProgressive]

The college campus handout is perfectly clear:
"If you're not from Iowa, you can come back and caucus in your college neighborhood."
link to scan of handout:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=152x20340
Now that Obama's "legal" plot to load up the Iowa Caucus with students who live in Illinois has been exposed, any estimates on just how many Greyhound Busloads he'll need to win the Illinois... Opps, I mean Iowa... Caucus?

[durrrty libby]

1. lol..........good question

[Mass]

2. LOL - Of course, pushing students to vote where they are entitled to vote is so bad.........

Pathetic. So sad to see that some do not value voter participations.

[MethuenProgressive]

7. You want the Iowa caucus to be decided by students from Illinois?

Thanks for the ObamaNation Talking Point.

[Mass]

11. You have nothing to learn when it comes to talking points, The good news though is that some of

them are backfiring out of silliness.

So, even if they have the right to vote as Iowa where they actually live, they should not vote because her highness does not think they will vote for her?

[MethuenProgressive]

14. Here's your talking point:

"If you're not from Iowa, you can come back and caucus in your college neighborhood."
- direct quote from the Obama college campus handout.

[Mass]

16. Are you from MA or from Maine? Do you vote in MA? Same difference.

Stop being silly. It only hurts your candidate.

[MethuenProgressive]

19. "Stop being silly. It only hurts your candidate."

I don't think there's much cross over between Bill Richardson's support and the ObamaNation.

[BeyondGeography]

40. A party is going to break out here when you launch your first ever pro-Richardson thread

and, even then, the ratio of "here's why I support my candidate" to "Obama sucks" threads will be about 200-to-1.

[MethuenProgressive]

45. If you're going to stalk me from thread to thread, at least read all my posts.

"when you launch your first ever pro-Richardson thread"
Do a search, and we'll party while we wait for your retraction.

[BeyondGeography]

48. No need to stalk a spammer

He's, like, just there all the time.

[MethuenProgressive]

49. If you want to continue the disagreement we had in the other thread,

why not just go there and do it? Was it locked because of the Obama supporters?

[MethuenProgressive]

52. The party continues!

:party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:

[1corona4u]

32. Maybe....

but, here's my question; if there is a student, going to school in Iowa, but is from Illinois, where is their drivers license from? If it's from Illinois, couldn't they then go home to vote, again, on Feb 5th, in Illinois, thereby having 2 votes? Or, do they have to have an Iowa License? I mean, the only angle I see as unfair, is if they actually get their votes counted twice.

[MethuenProgressive]

33. Good points.

[jefferson_dem]

3. How many voters will Hillary try to disenfranchise in order to win Iowa?

Hmmm...

[MethuenProgressive]

9. What part of "If You Are Not From Iowa" don't you understand?

Oh wait... just saw the logo in your post. You understand. You just don't care.

[jefferson_dem]

17. The students live in Iowa. Nice try.

And I thought only Repugs wanted to disenfranchise voters... Pfft.

[MethuenProgressive]

18. The students targeted with "If You Are Not From Iowa" are from Iowa?

Why are you so enthusiastic about this plot to disenfranchise the Iowa voters who actually "Are From Iowa"? Isn't vote rigging a Rethug tactic?

[jefferson_dem]

30. I have many neighbors who are not "from here" but live here and may vote here.

Let's not be dense, please.

[MethuenProgressive]

35. Do they live in Illinois and plan to caucus in Iowa?

Is the Obama campaign arrainging bus rides "back home" after the caucus?

[Vickers]

4. A one.....a two-hooo....a three.

Three licks to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop busloads.

[MethuenProgressive]

12. Three bus loads? Depends on which caucus the ObamaBus drops them at.

If they do their calculations right they can load up exactly where they're needed.

[Mass]

15. Proof of this story of bus?

[MethuenProgressive]

20. "when it is set the ride will be to the caucuses and back home"

A DUer (not an Obama supporter) called the "local Obama office" and posted that "the ride will be to the caucuses and back home"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3786144&mesg_id=3787349
You can call and ask if you want.
I'll take her at her word.

[hedgehog]

22. Wow - the Obama people are so organized that they know

ahead of time exactly which caucus they need to stuff with voters! That bodes well for getting out the vote in the General!















You do know that you have to be a resident in a precinct to vote in that precinct, don't you?

[MethuenProgressive]

26. "you have to be a resident in a precinct to vote in that precinct" = "If You Are Not From Iowa"?

It is clear Obama want people who "Are Not From Iowa" to caucus as "residents".
That's a pretty flexible version of "democracy" from a Democrat.

[hedgehog]

50. If I ask a college student resident in Oswego where he's from,

the answer will probably be either:

"I'm from around here" or "I'm from Long Island"

Very likely, both students will be registered to vote in Oswego County. The folks from down state like to register here because local elections have a big effect on their living conditions (ie, how many students are allowed to reside in one house.)

[Rocky2007]

54. Talk about being dense !!!!

[Mass]

5. Better question - How many tactical errors like that will it take for Hillary to come third in Iowa.

Kindergartengate is backfiring on her.

Reich has written a blog post on how silly she was.

Most media acknowdledge she is overreaching.

And, BTW, give us our proof that he will bus people from Illinois, because, afaik, it is another invention from the Clinton camp (very fertile imagination when it comes to lies, as we all know).

[cali]

6. there is nothing wrong with what the Obama campaign is doing and

Clinton's campaign looks foolish making an issue out of this.

[ellacott]

10. I agree

If those students wanted to vote for HRC this would not be an issue.

When I was in college I voted where my college was located. It's been done like this for years.

[Onlooker]

8. The Obama campaign is doing nothing wrong

The right of students to participate in election activities in the area where they live was and is a hard fought battle. Come the general election, when we're hoping students going to college in swing states vote in large numbers, I suspect the point of view of many people will change. Although I'm terribly undecided between the three front runners (but support Kucinich otherwise), I don't think Obama is doing anything ethically wrong in trying to get students to the caucuses. It might be politically unwise in a place like Iowa, but that's another matter.

[madrchsod]

13. so what is illegal about this?

are the hillary folks upset because her advisor's screwed up big time in iowa and underestimated the youth votes. the planting of the questions by her staff is what screwed her in iowa not obama`s use of a law. hillary people should start looking at whether or not penn and his crew is the one damaging hillary not the other candidates.

there is`t enough buses in the surrounding states to get enough students to make a difference. remember this includes any student from any state that resides in iowa for 9 months. i think politically active college students are more aware of what is going on than people in hillarys camp give them credit for

[MethuenProgressive]

21. So, if it is a 'legal' loophole it must therefore be 'right'?

Obama targets students with (his words) "If You Are Not From Iowa," to come back from their Not In Iowa homes during winter break to vote for him. Sorry, but that's no longer the Iowa Caucus.
Obama's Illinois supporters, of course, will disagree.

[hedgehog]

25. You mean like collecting money for a "Senate" campaign that goes

straight into the coffers for a Presidential campaign? Nice way to skirt the donor limits!

[ellacott]

If the caucus was not held during their break this wouldn't be an issue

They would already be on campus. You keep making an issue of students that are out of state. It's only the out of state students that would have a problem voting in the caucus because they are on break. If these students are registered to vote in Iowa it doesn't matter that they are out of state. If they met the requirements of residency in Iowa this is not an issue.

[MethuenProgressive]

44. Will Obama pledge to not bus in students registered to vote in other states?

Will those students pledge to only vote in Iowa, and not go back home to vote again?

[Bitwit1234]

23. The whole Illinois campus he brought it.????????????

[Apollo11]

24. This is about students who live most of the year in Iowa, but their folks live in other States.

I assume they will be allowed to vote in Iowa on November 4th 2008.

Why should they not also take part in the Iowa caucuses? :shrug:

[MethuenProgressive]

28. It's "If You Are Not From Iowa" not "If Your Parents Are Not From Iowa"?

I'm just going on the contents of the campus handout from the Obama GOTV group.
Has he "tweeked" his message somehow?

[Apollo11]

31. Just because you're not "from" Iowa doesn't mean you don't reside there.

Maybe a college student will reside around 40 weeks each year in the town where they go to college.

But if you ask them where they are from they will tell you the name of the town where their folks live.

I don't see why that would be a reason to stop them taking part in the caucuses.

[MethuenProgressive]

37. Will they pledge not to vote back home in the Illinois primary?

I saw in another thread where the Obama campaign will be offering rides "back home" after the caucus.

[Apollo11]

38. I guess most colleges don't run classes on January 4th

Most colleges are closed for the first half of January - aren't they?

Sometimes college dorms are closed for the holidays.

So better to stay at your folks for free food, and hang out with you old high-school buddies.

Am I the only person on DU who can remember being a student? :eyes:

[hedgehog]

51. OMG, this is HUGH! Obama's student supporters are going to miss

the first two weeks of the winter session so they can stay in Illinois and vote in that primary after they've already voted in the Iowa caucus!

[1corona4u]

41. UNLESS, for the 3rd time,

they can ALSO go home to ILLINOIS and vote again on Feb 5th! No one has addressed my question above, why is that??

If there is a student, going to school in Iowa, but is from Illinois, where is their drivers license from? If it's from Illinois, couldn't they then go home to vote, again, on Feb 5th, in Illinois, thereby having 2 votes? Or, do they have to have an Iowa License? I mean, the only angle I see as unfair, is if they actually get their votes counted twice.

THAT,, should piss everyone off, regardless of WHO the candidate is.

[Mass]

46. True, because it is illegal, and it is not what Obama is proposing.

[Jim Lane]

57. You're simply ignoring how voter registration actually works

You're assuming that Illinois allows people to vote based solely on a driver's license. That would be a strange law indeed. (In most or all states, you can get a driver's license while you're still too young to vote.)

Uh, have you yourself ever voted? When you showed up, did they ask to see your driver's license and, on that basis alone, usher you into a voting booth? I've voted in three states (calm down, it was in separate elections) and the officials ALWAYS checked my name against a list of registered voters. In fact, I've voted without having a driver's license or other Department of Motor Vehicles identification, as long as I had registered to vote.

Yes, a college student, or someone who owns two homes, might well have two different locations that could plausibly be his or her "domicile" for purposes of voting. Yes, someone in that situation might get away with voting from both of them. People do get away with felonies. The possibility that someone might cheat is no basis for disenfranchising millions of voters nationwide.

[Apollo11]

27. Way to alienate college students and anyone under 35!

According to Hillary, you should still be living with your parents and voting in the same town where you attended High School. Moving to another State makes you an outsider.

[haroldgiowa]

29. Delegate count

Loading up college precincts with college votes may or may not result in more delegates to the National Convention. Yes you can come out with a higher per centage of people standing up for you and win a symbolic victory without gaining an additional single delegate to the national convention. There are 3500 voting precincts in Iowa selecting X amount of Delegates to move on to the County Conventions. Each precinct is awarded a set amount of delegates. So a precinct heavy in college students may not translate any better then a precinct with just twenty voters in attendance. It is the per centage of delegates being sent on that give you your national delegate count.

A better plan is to assure yourself with a viable number in each and every precinct. I was once elected from a group which was viable with only three votes. At the county convention my vote counted equally with other delegates that required thirty votes. Four years later it took six votes to be a delegate. This story holds true through a large majority of the precincts in the state. If I can place ten to fifteen votes in each precinct, as a candidate I will be better off at the end of the day than someone who is loading up just a few campus precincts.

[MethuenProgressive]

34. Thanks for the insight!

"If I can place ten to fifteen votes in each precinct, as a candidate I will be better off at the end of the day than someone who is loading up just a few campus precincts."

[haroldgiowa]

36. This would be what I would do. NT

[haroldgiowa]

42. Bus loads anywhere won't work everywhere?

If a bus load of people show up at the forth ward precinct in Keokuk all for one candidate it is going to be challenged whether or not they are residence or plants. Especially due to the fact that there is no college dorms in this precinct.

If they show up at a precinct in Iowa City, Ames or Cedar Falls this may or may not be a problem. You can only use the student loading technique in so many areas. Of course if you are just going for the symbolic win this could work. Then again it could back fire and bring out more of your opposition in the smaller precincts. The regular party people are going to be the main people that need to be courted. Then they bring along their five to ten friends or relatives to help them move onto the county convention.

All Iowa can be is a symbolic victory to show a candidate's strengths and weaknesses. We are only sending 56 candidates to the national convention. A large percentage of them are super delegates and as you know, can go their own way. With this system it is easy for the lesser known candidates to step up or to trip all over themselves over themselves. Winning Iowa is not a guarantee of being the final candidate, but it is good cheap practice.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

43. self delete

edit: removing my response to a post that's since been deleted by mods.

[dionysus]

47. how many posts like this make hillary supporters look shallow and superficial?

[Lerkfish]

53. I don't think that's ever been a concern

:shrug:

[dionysus]

55. funny how that is

:hi:

[Forkboy]

56. All of them.

[ilovesunshine]

58. It's hard to tell with all the shallow and superficial Gobama threads.