NPR RADIO DEBATE THREAD 2

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

thread 1: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3791795&mesg_id=3791795

[Clintonista2]

1. anybody know why Richardson isn't there?

or is he?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

funeral of a Friend

[cali]

3. attending the funeral of a Korean Vet whose remains were recently

returned to NM.

[monmouth]

He had a good and productive talk with Imus this a.m. Very interesting..n/t

[Cameron27]

2. K&R

Thanks Kurt

[monmouth]

4. Thanks K and H for doing this, I had to turn audio off....

[cali]

5. thanks for the thread, Kurt.

k&r.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. Actually, it was a screw-up. I couldn't see the GD thread because I seem to be ignoring the author

And I don't doubt some people are missing this thread by ignoring me. (probably with good reason, too)

Usually these things are started by uncontroversial posters!

[Lucinda]

6. grrrr.....I lost the feed. Dialup sucks.

You can quote me on that. :)

[cali]

7. can you listen on the radio? n/t

[Lucinda]

8. None where I am...how weird is that?

:D

[Pirate Smile]

14. It timed me out twice and I have a fast connection. It seems to be working now.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

10. So Far: without visuals the top tier are DULL

Only Gravel, Kucinich and Biden say really interesting or provocative things, which is a must for radio.

(Hence, "shock radio")

[jillan]

11. Biden - just play by the rules.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

12. Biden: Why won't we even call-out China on human rights at the UN?

[youthere]

13. LOL! Hillary "I agree with Joe"

[rodeodance]

19. good for her.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

15. "I agree with Joe..." Take a drink.

[jillan]

21. oooh - kinda early - maybe a soft drink! I'm game!!

[youthere]

26. If I took a drink everytime one of the other candidates said that...

I'd be unconcious already.

[rodeodance]

16. thanks for the thread. just joining you all now.

[cali]

17. Listener question: How do you balance trade with China with

human rights. Biden speaking about using the UN. Says presently the UN does not address China's human rights abuses. Clinton speaking now; agrees iwth Biden.

[gateley]

18. Biden: HOBSON'S CHOICE: (I had to look it up)

A Hobson's choice is a free choice in which only one option is offered, and one may refuse to take that option. The choice is therefore between taking the option or not taking it.

[youthere]

22. Thanks Gately.

[rodeodance]

23. thanks for the explanation.

[jillan]

24. Thanks gateley! I was scratching my head.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

29. A nice elvis costello lyric:

Curiosity didn't kill the cat
It was a poisoned pen
But it's Hobson's choice
Between a cruel mouth and a jealous voice

[monmouth]

85. Oh, now you're just showing off...lol.

[jillan]

102. Interesting!

I love Elvis Costello - even tho his choice in candidates sux!

[BeyondGeography]

20. Hilly just plugged Billy

[rodeodance]

25. a big REC

[1corona4u]

28. Here we go...the mill story again...

I just want to barf when I hear it...

[jillan]

33. I thought we were talking about China.

[Cameron27]

34. I know,

I think he dragged out the friggin pink house picture too. Enough already.

[youthere]

36. Why does the song "Coal Miners Daughter" spring to mind?

[1corona4u]

40. I can't wait to see the transcript....

I want to see how many times he says "mill"...

[CrispyQ]

97. I love this!!!

[jillan]

27. Why are we talking about the Mill? i thought we were talking about China.

[Armstead]

30. Because it reflets our awful trade policies

[cali]

31. when in doubt, talk about the mill. n/t

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

37. Oh No! The mill was in Iowa now.

[Armstead]

39. cheap shot

[cali]

44. but true. and didn't adequately address the

question.

[Armstead]

51. The plain fact is that we are shipping production overseas

If he uses the mill as his analogy, fine with me.

The whole problem with China is a matter of National Deliberate Self Destruction.

[Cameron27]

56. He's been using the mill as a prop since he started

running for office.

[Armstead]

66. And Hillary has been using her marriage

Yes the mill is getting a bit tired. But as a metaphor it does make sense.

[Cameron27]

73. Clinton's role as a politically active first lady

had far more significance that Edwards' father working in a mill. He was promoted to supervisor, time-management I believe, something that's NOT the favorite role for union men and women.

[1corona4u]

32. LOL...

yeah, he just had to get that in again.

[jillan]

38. You can take the boy out of the mill, but you can't take the mill out of the boy.

[1corona4u]

41. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hahahahaha...

[monmouth]

92. Hahaha, just lost my Green Tea....Need to add vodka...

[BeyondGeography]

35. Edwards caught in a little slip-up there

We have more leverage than they do became enormous leverage.

Take-no-prisoners on the moderation front today.

[Armstead]

43. We can still have a heavier bucket , but if it's leaking....

...then pretty sooner we will have a lighter one.

As long as we continue to allow our economy to drain away to China, we will be steadily losing leverage

[BeyondGeography]

47. I know...points to the moderators for caring is my point

[Armstead]

53. Okay....I'm glad to see journalists acting like journalists

Better than Wolf Blitzer trying to be Vince McMahon.

[cali]

42. tough question for Edwards about textile production

paraphrased: isn't the time of textile production in the U.S. past? Answers by bringing up his father, etc. Doesn't really answer. Obama speaking now. He's not doing much better.

[Cameron27]

46. Obama was rambling on that one.

Edwards made no sense, but hey, anything to drag the old mill back into the picture.

[jenmito]

50. Did you know Edwards' father worked in a mill?

[youthere]

54. That is entirely new information!

LOL!

[jenmito]

62. I was so suprised to hear that! I may just want to vote for him now!

:rofl:

[jillan]

45. Thank you Biden for bringing the conversation back to reality.

whew!

[Steely_Dan]

48. Biden...

It's about fairness...would we be treating France the same way we would treat China if France broke the rules...(trade).

-Paige

[youthere]

49. Break time. Good music.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

52. I forgot the third topic already... I hope it's Paris Hilton!

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

55. Nope, immigration. C'est la vie.

[youthere]

57. NO! It's Brittany and K-Fed!

[cali]

60. M-igration.

"would you expect american citizens to turn in immigrants?" strange question. Obama saying no.

[rodeodance]

58. "Do you expect Citizens to turn in Illegals?"---this is the next question.

[rodeodance]

63. Obama does not expect citizens to turn in people---but says Employers should and wants a path

to citizenship.

[gateley]

64. Good question.

[youthere]

59. Obama stumbling on immigration.

[jenmito]

67. No he's not. He said we shouldn't deputize citizens to turn in illegal immigrants...

And that it's the job of big business and the Fed. govt.

[rodeodance]

70. no stumble from what I heard.

[jenmito]

82. Thank you.

[BeyondGeography]

61. A follow-up for Biden: When does war with China start?

Sorry, Bidenators, the words are fine, but the tone is all wrong.

[jillan]

72. Maybe after Obama attacks Pakistan.

Pakistani protesters burn a U.S. flag to condemn U.S. presidential hopeful Barack Obama's remarks, in Karachi, Pakistan, Friday. Pakistan criticized Obama for saying that, if elected, he might order unilateral military strikes inside this Islamic nation to root out terrorists.

[jenmito]

99. Too bad. That's the position of the U.S. as well as most of the other candidates.

[1corona4u]

104. Oh, well that's just great...

they're pissed off at him, and he's not even been elected yet.

[jenmito]

115. As they'd be pissed off at any other candidate since they feel the same way...

AND as is our current policy.

[1corona4u]

125. Maybe, maybe not...

I haven't seen any article about their hatred for any other candidate.

Welcome to my list.

[jenmito]

127. Your Christmas card list?

Thanks! :hi:

[rodeodance]

65. Dodd expects empoyers to turn in illegals also.

[rodeodance]

68. Dodd talking of reforming NAFTA also.

[Armstead]

71. He makes a good point

If "free trade" was so successful, why are more people trying to get out of there and trying to come here?

[youthere]

69. Kucinich: We have due process in this country....

no Dennis, we're SUPPOSED to have due process..Bush has taken care of that, but I get your point.

[jenmito]

74. Hillary agrees with Obama...again.

[Cameron27]

79. Clinton's doing better than Obama IMO.

She's understandable, and gets to the point much faster than Obama. Everyone's agreeing with Joe Biden.

[jenmito]

95. I'm not surprised you feel that way.

But she has said a few things that the other candidates said she misrepresented them.

[Cameron27]

101. I'm not surprised you feel the way you do either.

I actually praise Obama when I think he's done good, I've never seen you have a good thing to say about Clinton.

[jenmito]

120. When she does good, I'll praise her.

[rodeodance]

75. Clinton saying she agrees with Obama, Dodd and Dennis on immigration.

[youthere]

76. and they are all right.

[rodeodance]

81. Biden: "I agree with Hillary"---on immigration. (no round ups)

[jenmito]

77. Hillary: "That's a very clever question..." As in "gotcha"?

[gateley]

78. These are thought provoking, very different questions about immigration - I'm

impressed, although this tough one -- do you turn in someone who's applied for a nanny position -- it almost unanswerable...

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

91. It becomes more answerable when you add, "turn them in to who?"

There is nobody to turn them in to... that's what makes the line of questioning so weird.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

80. WTF? Biden says "I agree with Hillary" Spit up one drink, I guess.

[youthere]

83. *finger down throat* ..I can't guarantee just one drink coming though.

[Cameron27]

87. Yep he did agree with Hillary lol.

[K Gardner]

88. ROFL !!

[monmouth]

103. It's only fair ya know....

[rodeodance]

89. Hil. gave a very compassionate response to the problem of illegals--and i am

glad to see Biden agree.

[jillan]

84. Biden - not all immigrants are from Mexico.

[BeyondGeography]

86. Biden stumbling on a data point...Chris, HELP!

[jillan]

93. And did you notice the civil tone between them? maybe your guy could learn how to talk to another

candidate in a civil manner??

[BeyondGeography]

98. Now you're just being silly

but that's OK.

Can Obama call a friend too if he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about?

[jillan]

111. Biden graciously appreciated what Dodd was saying. Did you miss that?

Biden said that Dodd knows alot more about that than he does.

Gee- a candidate that is not afraid to admit it when someone else knows more than he does.

[gateley]

90. I cringed when I heard Biden use that statistic - and now he's coming back to

him...

[jillan]

96. What statistic?

[1corona4u]

100. Ohhh... I hope Joe brings up the Swift meat co in NC

John's own state....that would be great...since they found 2800 illegals working there...

[K Gardner]

94. No NPR at all on my radio. Just now tuning back in via net.. excellent thread wrapup!! n't

[BeyondGeography]

105. Hilly's not getting much airtime today...anyone agree?

[youthere]

108. I think she's getting less than she normally does..which isn't all bad.

But it looks like Kucinich is getting screwed again.

[K Gardner]

110. ::raises hand:: I'll agree just to be agreeing !

[jillan]

106. I like how the mods are holding the candidates to answer the question.

[1corona4u]

109. I know...because some of them do drift away from the question...

like they're not focused....or they don't know the answer...

[Cameron27]

117. Yes, some of them are all over the place,

and it's hard to tell what they're actually trying to say.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

107. Edwards is demonstrating the difficulty of populism without racism

I am very sympathetic to him on this.

(Traditionally, populism almost always has racist and/or xenophobic elements.)

[jillan]

112. I love Gravel! Anybody with me?

[1corona4u]

123. Nope. Love you, Hate Gravel, LOL.

[Armstead]

113. You go, Dennis

NAFTA and Wall St are driving wages down

[youthere]

114. Jeez for a minute there, I had forgotten Kucinich and Gravel were even there.

They are not getting much air time.

[Renew Deal]

116. Who dug up Mike Gravel?

I'm glad that he's having an opportunity to debate. It's a crime that the media decides who is worthwhile.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

118. If we crack down on employers, where will the get the money to pay a substantial fine?

Not a slap at Obama. A slap at the punitive aspects of everyone's reform proposals that don't make any sense as policy. (Leaving questions of fairness aside... just as a matter of practical policy)

[K Gardner]

119. Does anybody else wonder why this substantive debate is HIDDEN on NPR... where its

guaranteed to be heard/seen by almost nobody. And we get talking clowns and You Tube singers on MSM. It makes me SICK that we're deprived as a nation of this kind of dialogue. ::rant off for now:::

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

121. NPR RADIO DEBATE THREAD 3

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3792475

[Eurobabe]

122. damn, I've missed 3/4 of it, sleeping!!

jet lag, just woke up. Listening now, topic IMMIGRATION.

Hillary sounds kinda froggy, stressed.

[BeyondGeography]

124. Hilly's right: Economy sucks so let's piss on the brown people

[rodeodance]

128. she said NO shch thing!

[jenmito]

126. Dodd put out a statement about Hillary and NIE: "It's easy to say 'fool me once,

shame on George Bush,' but when SHE'S been fooled twice, shame on her."