Biden won the last two debates!

[Renew Deal]

Biden won the last CNN debate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2292524&mesg_id=2292524

AND

Biden apparently won the NPR debate. 2 debate winning streak for Biden!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3793234

[bunkerbuster1]

1. I don't know how HUGHLY SERIES this post is, but... I'm warming to Biden.

He's a man I called "ugly and stupid" a few months ago, but I'm beginning to think he might be ok.

He certainly sounds the most rational, and capable of thinking on his feet, in these debate-ish forums.

[jillan]

12. oh yeah - i remember you!

You wouldn't be the first one that I used to argue with about Biden, and they have since come around :)

[bunkerbuster1]

35. I was half right. The hairplugs are ugly.

But hey, he's batting .500 now. Gotta respect that.

[1corona4u]

42. Not as bad as this...not to me anyway, LOL..

[Think82]

17. Fellow Mets fan! Come on over... The water is fine...

[bunkerbuster1]

36. Biden's really established himself in these debates.

Should Barak win the nomination, I'd hope he'd consider Joe as his attack dog (i.e., Veep.)

[Think82]

2. Not to put down the post, but he wins EVERY debate if you've been watching.

Vegas, Philadelphia, all the way back to the first one in June

[Eurobabe]

4. Not true for all of us, I have given kudos when due

heck I even thought Hillary did well in the first few debates. I never single out my candidate, but praise others who do well. :hi:

[Renew Deal]

5. Edwards won the Philly debate

Biden had that great line about Guiliani, but other than that, it was Edwards night.

[Think82]

8. thats because Biden got about 6 minutes in that debate.

I know I'm biased, but I base who won on who gave the best answers.

[Occam Bandage]

9. That was Edwards' high point this campaign, I would say.

[jillan]

11. A new Bidenite!!!!

Nothing makes me happier than a new Bidenite!

Make sure you stop by the Biden supporters group. The link is on the bottom of the HOME page.

[Occam Bandage]

13. Thanks! I couldn't decide between Obama and Biden for the avatar.

I like Biden the most, but if I were to vote today, it would be for Obama, simply because I find him preferable to Clinton, and (unlike Biden at the moment) he's actually got a shot. And so I had to choose between intellectual support and practical support. An internet forum, I think, is a place for the former ;)

[Think82]

14. Dude...

If you like Biden the best, vote for him. I cannot stand this way of thinking. If everyone who liked Biden but didn't vote for him because they thought he didn't have a shot DID vote for him, he would HAVE A SHOT.

[Occam Bandage]

19. Not true.

Your vote is a force, and a force that has a certain direction and a certain amount of leverage depending on how you use it. One can throw it away and simply stay at home. One can vote for a candidate who you absolutely agree with, but who does not have any support. That would make your vote's "push" 95-100% along the direction you would want, but would have absolutely no leverage, and so it would not actually be useful; you haven't impacted the election. One can look at the competing candidates with the highest support. Say, one is 80% of what you want, and one is only 30% of what you want. By voting for the 80% candidate, your vote's "push" is only 80% in the direction you would want. However, you have maximized the leverage your vote possesses.

One could, as you propose, vote for maximum directionality but minimum leverage (that is, in a manner that is non-beneficial to you), in the hopes that many others will also vote against their apparent interests, and in doing so maximize everyone's benefits. However, that's downright Utopian; it simply doesn't actually happen. It doesn't happen in politics, it doesn't happen in economics, it doesn't happen anywhere. (It's like the Prisoner's Dilemma, in a way.) There's a reason winner-take-all elections lead to only two parties--people always want to maximize leverage, so long as directionality is a net positive for them.

Now, if we had IRV in the Primaries and the Generals, that would allow candidates like Biden and Kucinich (niche for different reasons) to have a better shot. Until then, I (and most voters) will vote according

[Think82]

21. A bit cynical, yet not without merit> HOWEVER, in Biden's case....

He is A LOT of people's "second choice" and usually the reason for him not being #1 is that they don't think he can win (UNLIKE Kucinich) . Biden only needs to show he is viable early on to garner this other, untapped support. At this point, with a month to go, he needs to reach a thresholds, and it's people with exactly your rationale that are preventing that from happening, IMHO.

Thanks for the Biden avatar, though!

[Occam Bandage]

22. I understand that is necessary for Biden's campaign, and that is why I have decided to

show my support for him and not Obama, and which is why I declared "Biden" as my candidate when I was phone-polled (by some campaign, probably, since I didn't recognize the name of the company) recently.

The problem I've run into, of course, is balancing my belief in Biden's campaign with my belief that an Obama victory would be far better than a Clinton victory. At the moment, my "plan" will be to support Biden, while quietly planning on voting for Obama (barring a Biden surge.)

[Think82]

25. Yeah... I think we're on the same page.

I think Obama is my fav. "1st tier" candidate, though Edwards is close. Either way, Biden is WAY ahead of them in my view.

[1corona4u]

23. I think Joe is going to surprise youuuuu....

and the rest of us...on Jan 3rd....think positive.

[Occam Bandage]

24. I certainly hope he does.

Since I'll be voting Super Tuesday, I'd love to see Biden turn into a contender by then.

[troubleinwinter]

44. Oh, we're around. Maybe just *ahem* not quite as noisy as some.

[Froward69]

43. Edwards high point was

nomination as VP... pandering ever since.

[Eurobabe]

3. Jesus, Mary and Joe Cocker!

Come on Iowa, heed the call. :patriot:

[Mojorabbit]

6. Yes

and I have been taking a good hard second look at him. Right now he is my preference.

[Stop Cornyn]

7. Biden's won ALL the debates (and the Nobel Peace Prize and the World Powerlifting Championship, too)

[Think82]

10. Glad you agree : )

except those comments in parentheses were made up! lol

[Bucky]

15. Biden won Best Actress for his stirring performance in "Driving Miss Daisy"

However he couldn't accept the award that night because he was too busy smacking Garry Kasparov around on the chess board and then teaching Chuck Norris a few new power moves.

[Steely_Dan]

16. LOLOLOLOL

I'm a Biden supporter...and laughing my ass off. Thanks.

-Paige

[Bucky]

20. We're growing in numbers

Not soon enough, I fear, but then again a lot of changes can occur in the next 60 days.

[monmouth]

26. And Tweety is giving him props. Great interview.

[K Gardner]

18. News footage coming up on CNN of the NPR debate, 6:30 pm n/t

[Depressed Since 2000]

27. Too bad Biden has been plagued with accusations of plagiarism, which can affect his credibility.

Even so, I would certainly vote for him.

[1corona4u]

28. That's pretty much a non issue anymore...

since he was cleared of any wrong doing by the Delaware Supreme Court, back in 1998.

[Depressed Since 2000]

29. Thank You, I did not know this. I will research and use as an argument in his defense.

[1corona4u]

31. Let me save you some work;

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DD1230F93AA15756C0A96F948260

:-)

[Bucky]

30. "Plagued" = (adjective) meaning 'one incident from 20 years ago'

very poetic

[1corona4u]

32. Easy now...

he/she will be a convert, once they read the link I just posted for them...;-)

[democrat2thecore]

33. Biden is ISSUE-driven

He is not only showing campaign skills, he is showing leadership skills in these debates.
Biden is issue-driven and has little use for personality-driven politics.

[PatSeg]

38. There are so many vital issues to address

there should be no time for mud slinging. Voters want to hear viable answers to the problems we face.

[blm]

34. That makes it the THIRD in a row he has won.

.

[zulchzulu]

37. Biden won the NPR debate if you are a Biden supporter judging it subjectively

If you are honest, no one "won" the NPR debate except the listeners.

[murbley40]

39. kick

[Az_lefty]

40. Kick for Biden...

:kick:

[progressoid]

41. Unfortunately, winning a debate isn't a qualifier for winning the big prize

Ask John Kerry.