Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Dems need a fighter

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:22 PM
Original message
Dems need a fighter
I bow to no one in my distaste for food-fight politics. I don't want to dine with absolutists and ideologues hurling red meat at each other.

For that matter, I have long amused myself with visions of baby boomers carrying the same old conflicts into old age, dividing into pro- and anti-Vietnam nursing homes.

So I am drawn to the brand known as Generation Obama. This presidential candidate has repeatedly offered himself as the post-boomer, the one person in the race who can take us past the great divides of the last 40 years.

In announcing his candidacy, Obama used the word "generation" 13 times. In "The Audacity of Hope," he described boomer politics with something close to disdain as a psychodrama "rooted in old grudges and revenge plots hatched on a handful of college campuses long ago." On TV, he described Hillary Clinton and others as people who've "been fighting some of the same fights since the '60s."

This post-boomer theme is spun out in Andrew Sullivan's recent piece in the Atlantic, where he writes that "if you are an American who yearns to finally get beyond the symbolic battles of the boomer generation and face today's actual problems, Obama may be your man."

But slowly, all this generation talk has forced me to revisit not just boomer politics, but the nature of polarization in a country that may be poles apart.

To begin with, if Obama represents the "post-polarization" generation, what was the "pre-polarization" generation? The idea of some tranquil 1950s America is surely exaggerated. There were great struggles over McCarthyism and nuclear testing, to name just two issues.

As for the consensus that existed in the 1950s? Columbia's Todd Gitlin says, "There was a consensus that nothing much ought to be done to yank the former Confederacy out of the age of Jim Crow. There was complacency about the position of women. Complacency about the belligerence with which the U.S. occasionally overthrew uncongenial foreign governments." Are we nostalgic for that?

The '60s opened up huge and important conflicts. It was not all about boxers or briefs, inhaling or not. Issues surfaced around black and white relationships, male and female relationships, gay and straight relationships, all kinds of authority and our place in the world. These still go on. Not because they are relics of old college dorm fights but because they are still important and unresolved. Now we come to the 2008 primary season. Barack Obama is an appealing icon of change. He has the capacity to turn a problem around, roaming across its many surfaces. He gets it. His philosophical frame of mind appeals to the educated elite of the Democratic Party. His largest group of supporters are college-educated. But I am forced to ask, against my own grain, whether Democrats need a philosopher or a combatant.

In his stump speech, Obama says, "I don't want to spend the next year or the next four years refighting the same fights. ... I don't want to pit red America against blue America." Neither do I.

Sometimes, I approach politics like a parent watching her children: "I don't care who's right and who's wrong; just stop fighting." But of course I do care who's right, who's wrong, who'll win. What if red America is pitted against blue America?

Obama is a notoriously uneven performer. Alone on a stage, he is often eloquent and inspirational, if I may use an Oprah word. But on the debate platform with his opponents, he is, well, less impressive. Temperamentally he prefers to be above the fray. But the campaign against any Republican will take place in the fray.

Gitlin, author of "The Bulldozer and the Big Tent," says, "In a family situation, we need a healer." But in an era of ugly politics? "We don't need healing but resounding defeat. ... The bulldozer can't be kissed into submission."

Maybe I am suffering from too little "audacity of hope." Or an excess of experience. The Democratic nominee won't have the luxury of a do-good campaign. Even a post-polarization candidate would face a polarized politics.

There's still a difference between being an icon of change and an agent of change. And there is a difference as well between being a fine philosopher king and a strong presidential challenger.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071206/EDIT/712060309/1003
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dear wyld, this is what we truly need.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K38JnVMpzRs

Did you get the goosebumps? Yeah, I got them too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. not goosebumps. More like hives
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Were it not for 'those old fights,' ...
Slappy Thomas would not be sitting(slouching is a better term)on SCOTUS and Barak Obama would not be running for the presidency--with a good chance of making it.

How quickly the younger boomers forget what went before.

Hillary is a fighter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. it's not about forgetting, it's about moving on
time to turn the page. Older boomers can fight all they want, let the younger crowd have a seat at the table so we can start improving our lives.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Oh, dear wyld, you need to be more receptive to Obama.
After all, he will be Our Next President.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. uh... nah.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It was friendly advice!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Taking nothing away from Obama because basically I think HE
means well. But he is a light weight, that does not know what it is all about. Yes, he can give speeches, he can perform on stage and as you said at the debates you keep wanting to give him the proverbial whack on the back of the head. The kind you give your teenager to put across a point.

Another thing, instead of stopping the republican type of attacks, Obama goes along with them. This is not politics. And no matter what they say about the rest of the candidates, only his CAMP is gone all out republican mud slinging. Democrats should realize the type of attacks the Clintons have been subject to for the last almost 20 years. Of course Hillary has weathered it, but it can be nerve racking.

I think with more experience and I mean LIFE EXPERIENCE as well as POLITICAL EXPERIENCE Obama would be hard to beat in 6 or so years. And if he stays in the front of his Senator role he will even have people accept him as a candi ate. First I think he really truly needs to gain maturity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. it's a shame you can't merge Hillary and Obama into one candidate - Hobama
Hobama would be strong, debate-sharp, give thrilling stump speeches, compassionate, visionary, able to attrack women and minorities and have a great smile.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. well, Bill Clinton can't run again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. nope
and I like that. Two terms is enough for anyone, no matter how good a president they were.

Time to start fresh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. "Ho"...a tough first syllable in the name of any candidate
let alone a biracial one.

I like your instincts on this, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. Joe Biden is a "tough" candidate. Obama needs years to even
come close to Biden's years of experience, knowledge and expertise. I like Obama but like something good in the oven, he just ain't done yet....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Biden will encounter the same problems Kerry had
a voting record a mile long and not many accomplishments.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Well...
Edited on Thu Dec-06-07 01:38 PM by 1corona4u
1. For having been in the senate for 35 years, having a "mile long voting record", would be expected
2. Joe has many, many accomplishments;

He has sponsored 934 bills, & co sponsored 777 bills, to date.

He is the longest serving Delaware Senator
He was the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary commitee, which he chaired from 1987 until 1995.
He is currently the Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Commitee
He served as ranking minority member from 1981 until 1987 and again from 1995 until 1997.

He wrote the Biden Crime Bill
He wrote Violence against women act, passed by Bush
Co author Biden/Lugar International violence against women act
He crafted the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, also known as the Biden Crime Law.
He has the only plan to get the US out of Iraq, supported by both republicans, and democrats.
He co-authored the Biden/Hatch bill to combat cybercrime.(which has been approved by the senate, and is being advanced as we speak)


Biden's legislation to promote college aid and loan programs allows families to deduct on their annual income tax returns up to $10,000 per year in higher education expenses. His "Kids 2000" legislation established a public/private partnership to provide computer centers, teachers, Internet access, and technical training to young people, particularly to low-income and at-risk youth.

And, he lead the fight to keep Bork from being confirmed.



Bottom line, there are a ton of things he has accomplished. Too many to list in fact. To say that he has accomplished nothing is...flawed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Joe Biden is a candidate we already rejected 20 years ago.
The fact is, Barack Obama is older today that JFK was when he was killed.

Biden ran for President in 1988. If he is so great - why didn't he beat Dukakis?

Seriously I like Joe - but let's see how well he can do in Iowa and NH.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
coco77 Donating Member (966 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Who is the we...
there are different voters today, and people change.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Because he was smeared...
and, by the way, he was considered a front runner before the smear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. Dems need a fighter who stands up to the WH, who will lead on impeachment. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. AND WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS SOMEONE WITH THE GUTS
to take the fight to the republicans regardless. It is a shame that we don't have a '''fighter'''' who is not interested in appeasing everybody to get the nomination to the presidency. A '''fighter''' who will step into the political fray and let the chips fall were they may. That person could make their own arena.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. We DO have such a candidate
<----- Always fighting for what's right. And he's almost always right. As opposed to right-wing like the DLC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. What we need is a Wellstone
Edited on Thu Dec-06-07 01:00 PM by Armstead
For my tastes, Obama is TOO conciliatory and Hillary is TOO polarizing in the wrong ways.

Wellstone was one of my political heroes -- and the kind of leader we need now for one basic reason.

He was both a fighter and a conciliator. He had a sense of clear and very liberal.progressive principles, and he fought for them. He knew how to play hardball as well as negotiate and find common ground with political opponents.

And he focused on real issues -- especially the real polarization in this country, which is the powerful wealthy elite vs. the majority of Americans (middle class and poor).

Despite his strong progressive views, he was personally popular, and seldom got caught in the briar patch of wedge issues.

That's what we need in a candidate, IMO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
19. We need a fighter. But we don't WANT a fighter.
If we did Bush & Cheney would be laying in the gutter bloodied and battered.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. Was Hillary a 'fighter' against the Iraq War? nm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Was Barack "I don't how I would have voted but I'll vote to fund it" Obama?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. If a "fighter" is what we need, then it's not Obama.
He's more of a "cream puff" than a fighter.

As far as his comments of the 60s generation, he must have forgotten that if it wasn't for the people who fought and in some cases even died for civil rights, he could not be running today for president.

As for him actually winning in 2008, I see that possibility as slim to none. Maybe in the future, but not in 08.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Oct 17th 2024, 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC