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Another reason for progressives to vote for John Edwards, whether you trust him or not!

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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:13 AM
Original message
Another reason for progressives to vote for John Edwards, whether you trust him or not!

As a progressive, I'm torn up about the prospects of who we have in the White House in 2009 onwards, and that there are very critical challenges facing our nation that we need progressive approaches to do radical changes in fixing what has become very badly broken over the last two to three decades with this country.

I'd at first hoped Russ Feingold would run, but resigned myself to other choices when he told us he wasn't running after the 2006 election.

I then sincerely hoped that Al Gore would get in the race. Though it still is a possibility, I think we've crossed that threshold where it's an optimal time for him to enter now vs. a few weeks ago, and therefore he's probably not getting in.

I love Dennis Kucinich on many issues and have put money into his campaign as well, but whether is a MSM only fabrication that he's not electable or not, I still think it's a very uphill battle for him to get both the nomination and elected in the general election.

Then there's John Edwards. Of the other candidates, he is the only remaining one in my book that is putting forth what I would consider a progressive agenda and being outspoken about it. Obama might, but his non-commital attitude isn't good enough for me.

Some have complained that John Edwards has a checkered past with his votes in the Senate not necessarily matching up with his stances of today. Yes, those are real concerns for me too, and if those votes weren't there, I'd be even more on board with him now than I am already, and I'm pretty firmly in support of him now. I'd like to think that he's wised up, much like Al Gore had wised up since the 2000 election too with experience of what goes on behind the scenes, and what the American people want and need based on how they've been savaged by this administration over the last 7 years.

Think of it this way. If we put Edwards in the White House, despite his lower amounts of campaign financing than Clinton or Obama, and is done so by millions of us speaking out and saying we want what he's saying as his agenda implemented, in my book that is a mandate coming from the nation of what we want from our leaders. The votes will be there showing what the nation wants, and it will be hard for either the congress or Edwards himself to contend with that mandate.

So even if you think he will reverse himself on some of the stands he's campaigning on now, and even if he does later, it still doesn't take away from the mandate that America would have issued that we want what he's been touted implemented by our government officials, and perhaps both he and Congress will keep that more in mind as they run our country 2009 and beyond. If Edwards backs off on some things, perhaps Congress will remind him of the mandate he rode in on, knowing that they have to live up to that mandate themselves too, and that the people's will sometimes trumps heavy special corporate interest spending and that that is something they will be careful not to contend with too in the coming years as well.

For me, Edwards is providing us the mandate we want. We vote for him, and if enough of us vote for it, it will send a message to those in Washington about what America wants! Those in Washington know that the special interests aren't there to help Edwards get elected and that only the people's will would have done so, unlike other politicians in the mix that are trying to work for their backers as much or more as they are working for the people now.

Vote for Edwards, and vote for a "PROGRESSIVE MANDATE"! It is damned important folks!
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. You summed up my thoughts nicely-
I'm a Progressive, I've always been a Progressive, and JRE is the Progressive candidate.

The choice for me has been easy.

Go John Go!
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. "whether you trust him or not"?? I don't trust that he's a real progressive.
Edited on Tue Dec-11-07 01:10 PM by MethuenProgressive
He's a phony, poll crafted, charlatan.

edit: added an 's.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Do you have a basis for saying that?
How is he a charlatan any more than say Al Gore is?

Al Gore (and I do love the guy now), also voted along with a small Democratic minority for the first Persian Gulf war and was as much a part of the DLC during his time as VP in Clinton's administration as many others. But he HAS learned from what happened then, and he HAS changed for the better in a big way.

I'd like to believe that Edwards is a similar man. Until I see otherwise, I won't discount what he's saying now. And whether or not he is or isn't, voting for his message WILL do us well in 2009!
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. There is actually only one candidate in this race that appellation fist +it ain't Edwards!
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. ....
Edited on Tue Dec-11-07 12:55 PM by MethuenProgressive
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Are you speaking to me?
Sorry, I have a problem responding to baseless and ridicules name calling.

Did you have some kind of a question, or did you just want someone to watch you hate?

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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. "I have a problem responding to baseless and ridicules name calling."
You responded to a blank post - with this?
:rofl:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. This is what I was responding to:
These were your words in response to me:

"whether you trust him or not"?? I don't trust that he's a real progressive.

He's a phony, poll crafted, charlatan.

YOU posted that to ME.

We all make mistakes, I know I sure do. Maybe you should go back and take a look. I'll wait.



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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. ...
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. This post is baseless and ridicules.
:rofl:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I didn't write the OP-
Don't know if you noticed that.

And you replied to me on my response, go back and take a look.

Are you just trying to pick a fight with me?
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. ...
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. Does Edwards have a problem with the progressive vote?
From what I've read his problem is in not getting the blue collar vote away from Clinton.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. The point is, to vote for the mandate of what they are saying... Not just "to win"...
Clinton is NOT touting a progressive agenda. If progressives vote for Clinton, it is a message to ALL of the pols in DC that they can still triangulate their message towards us with what their backers want, and we will have made NO progress in fixing things in Washington.

If Edwards wins, despite a financial disadvantage against Clinton, and carries a progressive message, it will be hard to argue that America doesn't want progressive approaches to how our government's run, and that from that point forward, it will be hard for the special interests to throw money at congress people to get them to do what they want, as this will send the message that the vote of what people want matters more than how much money you try to spend to convince them otherwise.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. I won't vote for either one of them in the primary
I don't see them nearly as different in their records or platforms as you do, though, no matter what they are touting. Edwards ran as a populist once before and once in office he voted as a centrist. He can triangulate with the best of them, anyhow, and if he reaches the GE, we will see just that. In my opinion.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. So who is the populist progressive you recommend instead?...

I don't see them. The central problem we have is corporate control over so much of our government. For me, the only two that have really tried to take on that issue are DK and Edwards. I really don't see any others making that a strong priority for themselves to deal with. America needs that to be a priority of who is president in 2008!

Which would you rather have as a progressive? A centrist running as a centrist, or "maybe" a centrist running as a populist progressive? Some would have called Al Gore a centrist in earlier times too. Don't forget that Ronald Reagan started out as a Democrat too! People change with experience. Even in the 2004 election, Edwards wasn't a strong progressive populist then.

I'd like to think people like Edwards and Gore, etc. change for the good. Many others feel that way too. And as I noted in my post above, even he IS triangulating, if you voted for him versus the other candidates, you can still hang over his head that you and the rest of America voted for a MANDATE for progressive change that he promised in getting voted into office. If you vote for other candidates, you won't have the ability to say that to them.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Under your terms, there is only Kucinich
I am not a terribly ideological voter, so terms like "populist" and "progressive" don't weigh in as much with me. I tend to vote for candidates I believe, which is a subjective thing, who have basic Democratic values, but who will tell you what he or she honestly thinks, whether it's necessarily what I want to hear or not. However, I would say that if Edwards doesn't have the progressive/populist vote by now, since that's what he's been running for all year, it can't be too good a shot for him. I think he can win Iowa. He needs to take the blue collar vote if he wants to win in the other early states, which he must do, because he doesn't have the money to get farther along if he loses early.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I guess under my terms I was trying to say that I'm willing to accept people changing...
Edited on Tue Dec-11-07 12:33 PM by calipendence
... as there are many examples of this happening for both the better and the worse in the past.

I do believe that progressive principles ARE "basic Democratic values". If you can point out how they are different and where you support the latter over the former, I'm all ears. And then if you can point out how other candidates are better at "basic Democratic values" than what either Kucinich or Edwards have been saying, I'm still all ears!

For me, what counts is what they are saying they want to do NOW! Kucinich and Edwards in my book have been taking stands that in my book are the best in Democratic values now! If you can't trust anyone, at least you can vote for the mandate. And I have not seen why I should trust Clinton or Obama more than I should trust Edwards. And if they don't say what I want to hear, what's the point of even thinking of them. They can "be nice" all they want, but "being nice" and being "a good orator" won't do anything for me when they are in office.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. then it must be Kucinich - vote for the mandate, not just to win.
may as well get the best deal possible.

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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I'm thinking I can get both with Edwards....
Where I can get the mandate with Kucinich (IF enough people vote for him), I don't get the mandate voting for anyone else besides these two. Edwards has the best shot of enough people voting for him to put forth a progressive mandate in my book.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Some support from Unions, Environmentalists, and Progressive Groups-
I think in many ways, the support for Edwards is across the board.

Friends of the Earth Action - 100,000 members in the US
United Steelworkers - 1.2 Million active and retired
United Brotherhood of Carpenters & Joiners - 520,000 active members
Transport Workers Union - 200,000 active & retired
United Mine Workers - 105,000 active & retired
Iowa Postal Union - 3,000 members
Iowa caucus for Priorities - 10,000
San Mateo Straw Poll
Wellstone Club
El Ceritto Democratic Club

SEIU:

California - 600,000 +
Washington - 100,000 +
Oregon - 46,000
Iowa - 2,000
New Hampshire - 10,000
Massachusetts - 90,000
Ohio - 22,000
Minnesota - 28,000
Michigan - 70,000
West Virginia - 4,000
Montana - 500
Idaho - 450

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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. Ditto
You summed up well what I think about this too
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
6. Nice post.
If he's nominated, I'll vote for him, but I can't vote for him in the primary. And even more than his Senate record, I'm troubled with his association with Fortress Investments.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thanks Cali-
Not sure why, but I really don't expect your support.

Maybe it's because of the negative posts.... hummmmmmm.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. In my book though, the only other principled choice to vote for in the primaries is DK...
Edited on Tue Dec-11-07 11:40 AM by calipendence
As he's walked the walk VERY STRONGLY on all of his progressive positions, with the one exception of abortion, but I truly feel that that isn't something we'd have to worry about him reversing his position on later.

As for the other candidates, I really can't see just voting for a "pragmatic" choice versus the Republicans in the primaries. In my mind, seeing the polls, I think Edwards is as pragmatic as any of the other candidates in his chances to beat Republicans anyway. But even if you feel otherwise, I think the most important thing is to vote for the platform of the candidates running that you think makes the most sense of what you want to see implemented. For progressives, I believe that to be Edwards (or Kucinich).

If you think trust is the main reason you won't vote for Edwards, I think that just about all of the candidates up there in the top tier ALL have issues with trust. That is why you have to make sure they are on the hook for publicly stating what makes sense from a progressive viewpoint. Then they are "on the hook" to do what we want them to do, whether they truly intend to do so or not. Those that mince words and are non-committal, may seem more "honest" to you in not being non-commital, but to me it is just admitting that they aren't really there to do what we want of them, but are there as much for their behind-the-scenes backer. In other words, voting for them, you've already surrendered getting any progressive work done by them or claiming a progressive mandate by voters by endorsing their "do nothing to offend" stances.

Thanks for your nice reply though.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Actually, I don't think there's much difference on issues
between any of the top three. There are difference in character and style. As for the primary, mine isn't until March, and I'll probably vote for Dennis, not because I think he'd be an effective president, but because I agree with many of his positions and hope if enough us vote for him, we'll send the dem party a message.

But re Edwards, it's not only trust, it's an issue of hypocrisy. That's just how I see him.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
9. I Like What You Posted... Since I've Supported Him For A Very Long Time
it's good to see so many supportive posts lately. More & more I see people re-thinking and I like what I'm seeing. Won't say much more, I've pumped him up for a long time...

So here's a BIG KICK for Edwards!!
:kick: :dem:
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
11. Nice thoughts, but America mandated change in 2006 and look what we got
I do hope that if he gets elected, though, that it will actually translate into the things we're all hoping for.

BTW, I mostly thank Nancy Pelosi for what I was talking about in my subject line.
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katadin706 Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's not good enough,
in my estimation, that Edwards is talking progressive talk. The votes in question were not minor issues -- they were really freaking MAJOR. You have the right to support whichever candidate you choose. But if you supported the candidate who voted his conscience and has consistently aligned himself with progressive values, you'd be voting Kucinich IMHO.

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I like DK, I've even sent money-
But IMO he is not running a smart campaign. How can he expect to win, if he doesn't even campaign in Iowa.

By the way, I think the 2 pugs that are trying to do this are playing it all wrong as well.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I don't fault anyone for voting for Kucinich in the primaries either!
If it gets down to both Edwards and he getting a huge chunk of the votes, that ALSO sends a strong message what America wants as a mandate! For me though, I want someone to get the nomination and win in addition to giving us a progressive mandate to demand action on, and that is why I've picked Edwards over Kucinich. I might change my mind though if something like the events in that film "Pax Americana" comes to pass or something like that!
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
17. He ain't perfect, but he is our best choice.
I personally think he will surprise us and turn out to be the best president we've had in ages.

All things weighed, logic says to vote for John Edwards IN THE PRIMARY.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
45. No he's not.
Geesch.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #45
55. Nice substantive response...
:eyes:
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
19. Thank you....
...my sentiments exactly
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. I like John Edwards..some
people have the capacity to change and learn from their mistakes, large and small..and then there's others who can't imagine it so they aren't able to fathom it in anyone else. And they sound like so many broken records...it's like, "where's the citronella"?
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penguin7 Donating Member (962 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. I think I am pretty darn liberal. I am not voting for Edwards in the
Edited on Tue Dec-11-07 01:18 PM by penguin7
primary or the general.

I will vote for the other sellouts.

There are alot of lawyers here on DU and dailykos, but Americans in general do not like lawyers too much. The interests of lawyers and the people are not the same, and Edwards has too much major financing by one special interest group.

Edwards will not win the primaries because most people see the legal system as corrupt and rigged. They will not vote for the legal system. And in the general, well now the lawyer haters will come out in full blooming mach force. I certainly will not vote for Edwards when the election becomes a referendum on the legal system. I will vote no confidence.

I truly doubt that Edwards has a prayer of winning the primaries. He had a better shot last cycle.
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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
48. So, which non-lawyer "sellout" do you support?
The anti-lawyer attacks on Edwards by the RW have been non-stop for 10 years -- "evil trial lawyer whose frivolous lawsuits against doctorsis why your health insurance costs so much ..." -- but have had a limited impact here in NC. It mostly resonates with the Repub base and is just one more topic to be woven into the "white male as victim" meme that is key to motivating the Repub base.


Their talking points go something like:

"Frivolous" implies that the plaintif is undeserving and wants to take/steal from someone who had worked hard or otherwise deserved what they had. Just another handout, somthing for nothing. Just like all those lazy people on welfare (e.g. blacks), illegal aliens, elitist Dems who want to raise my taxes and give it away to "them". I am better than "they" are because I wasn't given anything, only have what I have through my own hard work and the grace of God.


I hate seeing how often these and similar talking points are being pushed on DU these days, against Edwards and our other candidates.

BTW North Carolina has one of the lowest rates of civil litigation in the nation.

So, which sellout/candidate are you voting for?




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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
52. Hillary Clinton's also a lawyer... Why is she immune and Edwards not?!
Edited on Tue Dec-11-07 09:41 PM by calipendence
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penguin7 Donating Member (962 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. I am probably going to vote for Hillary in the general unless Kucinich gets the nomination
Edwards made tens of millions of dollars as a lawyer.

Edwards has no prayer of winning the nomination, but if by some fluke he does--You don't honestly believe that the tens of millions he made as a trial lawyer will not be huge issue?
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. And you HONESTLY believe they'll beat him up more than they will Hillary?
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Or might it be because the corporations don't mind as much if she wins as she will be more apt to do their bidding. OK, that's why they'll attack him more than her! Thanks!
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Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
28. Well said. nt
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
31. kick
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
33. Delete
Edited on Tue Dec-11-07 01:19 PM by asdjrocky


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weeve Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. Great Post Calipendence !!
That was exactly my progression too ... Feingold, then Gore, now Edwards. I don't want to think of my despair, should he get pushed aside by (gulp) Hillary. The media by and large is trying to make this a two person race ( duh, look who threatens them the least ... O & H ), but hopefully the voters on the ground will prove they are not witless sheep. I don't particularly want a media "rockstar" or a hawkish/corporate enabler at the top of our ticket. Edwards would rock the boat, in a way that is long overdue. Still, we need to make sure he does well in these first early caucuses/primaries , or I fear all is lost. If he can win or come in second in two or three of the early ones, the media will HAVE to pay attention, regardless of the threat to their vested interests he poses. Momentum will build from there. Get the word out to anyone you know in Iowa, NH, Nevada, etc. Now is the time.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
39. It's a two-way street. He has to show us he can win.
And taking those matching funds will doom his campaign more surely than being caught cheating on his wife with an underage hooker. Even Huckabee would pummel him for months with a massive financial advantage.

If John Edwards is the true progressive populist that he claims, he can pursue his agenda without being POTUS, just like Al Gore, because he ain't gonna be able to implement any of his grand progressive agenda as president if he doesn't win.

Sorry. He disqualified himself for me.
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weeve Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Not so.
With the likely landslide that Edwards would have in the General ( think Obama VP ) ... the coattails would build our Congressional majorities to the point where the chances of a Progressive agenda being ENACTED would be so much greater.

It's a sad state when you have to bring it all down to simply the matter of MONEY. Who knows, you may be right ... I just prefer to be a bit more idealistic, and hope that the MESSAGE actually has something to do with it.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. You can dream, but if that's what Edwards is banking on,
we're in deep trouble.

He can have the best message ever, but if people don't hear it or don't "get" it, it is meaningless. And it's not like it's an automatic sell. Another inconvenient reality is that there is approximately half the country that is not as progressive as you or me. They are unlikely to be moved by the populist dream, and there will be an opponent (many of them!) out there doing everything they can to convince people that the "message" is bogus, if not downright dangerous, and us with little or no ability for counterattack or defense.

I wish it wasn't so much about money too, but pretending it isn't doesn't make it go away.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. If we "surrender" to our candidates "needing" money, public campaign financing will NEVER happen!
We need to draw the line at some point, and get some real MEANINGFUL public campaign financing in place to end the K-Street gravy train. THAT is what will start a progressive revolution. And it won't be just progressives I think that will like those moves. Republicans in Arizona who have seen how public campaign financing helps get their communities more "represented" instead of special interests also like that as well.

Issues such as public campaign financing and bankruptcy bill might be more something that progressives tout at the moment, but when certain Republicans and independents free themselves from their corporate blinders at some point, they will see that these are THEIR issues too, not just "liberal" issues.

Republicans can get just as bankrupt from a catastrophic illness not covered by insurance as we can. They will come to realize that bankruptcy is needed for them in those situations just as much as it is for "liberals".

I think the key is getting a candidate that can ensure that he emphasizes the issues in a populist fashion that PEOPLE want more than corporations. That is what will get the people (not just us "progressives") to get behind them. That might not get them a lot of campaign contributions from the K-Street crowd, but if the voters step behind them in defiance of how many ads the competition foists onto them and the MSM tells them that their choices are others, THAT is when we have a true democratic revolution in this country and take it back from the corporate control it is under now. It's still not too late yet, but might be if we wait another election cycle or two.

If Edwards can win with public financing of his campaign, that will send a strong message that we don't NEED tons of money to win elections. We mainly need the right message that resonates with the people, and find a way to get it to them outside of the MSM pipeline.

I really think using just money as a front end filter as to who we want running and who we don't is a set up for us to fail in getting a Democrat in that is beholden to us and not corporate interests. We will have already lost then before the general election happens.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Well, we need both.
The pressure from activists is a necessary and productive part of the process, but we can't totally bank on winning everything all at once, because if we lose, we will have lost a lot.

Work to elect progressive candidates in local districts and build up from there. Once we have enough city councils and state legislators on board, the presidential stuff will follow automatically. We don't have to expect this to happen solely or even primarily through presidential politics. There is no quick fix. There is a lot of hard work and perseverance required.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Edwards would get his ass kicked in the general.
I'm sorry, but he would.

The press would simply report the truth about his record vs. what he says today.

You live in a very blue bubble, don't you?
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. The polls don't agree with you. I think they say that he would do better than Hillary would!
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
44. No. Way. In. Hell.
You actually want me to vote for someone I don't trust - in the least?

No.

I will NOT vote for that phony progressive (he's not - he was always a conservative) in the general election. I won't vote for the Republican, mind you, but not for that faker.

Edwards in the White House scares me - he cannot make, take or stick to a decision - he lives and dies by opinion polls and "sincerely" apologizes.

If all progressives want a progressive, they should just vote for Dennis - and stop worrying about electability. Edwards can't win a general, either, so what difference does it make?
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weeve Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Two posts...
... filled with non-stop name calling. That's mature.

You know ... just because you type it, doesn't make it so.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. That's funny-
Every single poll out there he beats the pugs.

Maybe you should read more.
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