Was Hillary's laughter as out of place as it seemed?

[senseandsensibility]

I didn't see the debate. But in the clips, when she was laughing during the questioning of Obama and even saying something like I'd like to hear that answer, it just seemed really strange. I've never heard another candidate laughing during a question that was not directed to them. Plus, what was so funny about asking Obama about all the Clintonites on his team?

Obama then got her back nicely with a great zinger, so of course it wasn't a very smart move. But for those of you who saw it live, was it as awkward as it seemed?

[maximusveritas]

1. Yes it was

Maybe because the question mentioned the Clinton administration, she felt it was her right to speak on it as well. But it was odd.

[Franc_Lee]

2. Hillary right now I'm sure has had a chance to have a glass or two of wine after

today's cackling blunder that back-fired in her face when Obama said; "he'll be expecting her support also" Hillary immediately shut-up!

[Bongo Prophet]

60. Actually, I heard her laugh (not "cackle") even louder at the answer.

It was not that mean-spirited as so many want to have it.
Either on Barack or Hillary's part.

Pundits jump all over it, because they were "bored" - poor dears.
And hyper partisans are all over it because...well, the heat of battle and the smell of blood.

This seems pretty minor to me.
Policy differences?
Relatively minor, so play by play gets more...play.

[1corona4u]

3. Sigh...

Really, why start something that's irrelevant? Hasn't Hilary been bashed enough this week? It's even starting to bug people who dont't even support her...such trite, petty things...let it go...

[terisan]

15. The comments re Clinton remind me of the media and Repubs dissing Gore in 2000.

They carried on about his wardrobe, his sighing, the way he spoke yadayadayada.

I figure the personal attacks are from the same people who voted for Bush or Nader in 2000.

[Cha]

19. Oh oh, it's the hillary

politeness police. hillary brings in on herself so enough with the pity party.

[Joe the Revelator]

23. Oh yes, poor Hillary has such a bad week.

At least she can only blame it on her self.

Don't accuse other candidates of selling drugs and don't heckle from the stage at a debate.

But yes, poor poor her.

[JDPriestly]

53. It isn't irrelevant. It has to do with what kind of person Hillary is.

We have a number of really good candidates. This is not the time to ignore really serious personality flaws in our candidates. Hillary's laugh betrays her meanness. She was laughing because she thought Obama was going to be embarrassed by the question and because she thought Obama would suffer because of the question. Obama handled himself very well. Hillary ended up embarrassing herself. This should not be ignored. Hillary has a sadistic bent, and this laugh showed it.

Hillary was like the 12-year old who laughs when a rival girl in her class does something embarrassing in the middle of a class play. The last thing we need is another sadist in the White House. We don't need another president who enjoys moments when others are miserable or embarrassed. We need a president who can show compassion when it is appropriate. Hillary has shown this same meanness several times. It is a character flaw and not a trivial personal matter. This is not about Hillary's decollete. This is relevant and very important. Republicans will know how to exploit this problem in Hillary's personality and character.

[Bongo Prophet]

61. Oh, you and your high road.

:thumbsup:

[SharonAnn]

4. Sometimes the laugh you heard was the interviewer, not Hillary.

[senseandsensibility]

6. The interviewer?

According to every report I saw, it was Hillary laughing.

[gateley]

40. The interviewer laughed, too - but Hillary's is distinctive, as you know. The

interviewer also laughed at Obama's response -- I'm not sure if Hillary did. She WAS smiling, though.

[0007]

14. Duh!! Give me a fucking break ......

[asdjrocky]

21. Where did you see that?

I'm not sure that woman has ever laughed.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

35. She laughed several times during the Republican debate, pretty loudly

Either that or Ron Paul has developed a very odd laugh.

After watched the R debate yesterday and hearing her laughter several times, I chalked up about half the laughter during the Dem debate to the moderator.

[asdjrocky]

37. Cool-

I tend to have the TV in the back ground. Many times I don't catch everything.

[maximusveritas]

55. The initial cackle was Hillary's. The laughter in response to Barack's reply was the interviewer's

Here's a transcript:

MODERATOR: Senator Obama, you have Bill Clinton's former National Security Adviser, State Department policy director and maybe secretary among others, advising you. With relatively little foreign policy experience of your own, how will you rely on so many Clinton advisers, and still deliver the kind of break from the past that you're promising voters?

(Laughter from Hillary)

Obama: You know I am --

Hillary: (Laughing) I want to hear that.

Obama: Well, Hillary, I'm looking forward to you advising me as well. (Laughter from audience)

[PatSeg]

5. Didn't come across as awkward to me

This was one time where I thought her laughter fit the moment and Obama's comeback was quick and funny.

[rodeodance]

7. geech

[speedoo]

8. I could not believe what I was hearing.

I had heard about the "cackle" before, but hearing it live, at that moment, was very bizarre.

[emilyg]

27. I cannot believe you wrote this.

[Hieronymus]

30. Why not?

[JackORoses]

9. It was an extremely forceful laugh meant to draw attention.

Then after her quip backfired she continued laughing to cover her discomfort.

[Diane R]

47. That's exactly what I heard, too. It was a loud, fake laugh, then another to cover her gaffe.

[Catherine Vincent]

10. She probably laughed because her name was mentioned. nt

[bleever]

20. I think you're right.

Cheerful banter. She wasn't being catty, and he wasn't being rude, just competitive.

[David Zephyr]

11. I didn't see it as being out of place.

I think Barack had a great comeback to her interjecting herself into the questioning, but I thought her laughing as the question which mentioned her was OK.

I actually like Hillary's laugh and don't get those that don't.

In any event, Obama had a great comeback as you said.

[senseandsensibility]

13. I don't mind her laugh either

It was just the timing that seemed strange.

[Mojambo]

12. Hillary's laugh: It goes to eleven.

[balantz]

16. God that makes me cackle!! Or maybe it's a guffaw!!

[Bongo Prophet]

63. Now, Edwards has a great southern guffaw. It makes me laugh, or perhaps chortle.

;)

[balantz]

68. Ha ha ha ha That's good! I like it.

:hi:

[Bongo Prophet]

74. Thanks - some threads are so silly, one has to yuk and howl to keep from sobbing

A silver lining on this cloud.
Cirrusly.

:hi:

[knight_of_the_star]

24. Her laugh could just have a louder ten

"But it goes to 11"

[ClarkUSA]

17. I saw it live and looked up from what I was doing when I heard The Cackler

Not only was the laugh totally without humor (and very loud, i.e. faked), it was meant to belittle another candidate. To laugh out loud when someone else is
beginning to answer a question is just downright rude. I loved it when the last laugh was on her. Way to go Barack!

[MaraJade]

22. Even calling it a "Cackle"

implies so-called improper laughter from a WOMAN--

After all, only WITCHES "Cackle." Men are never said to "Cackle."

I am simply amazed at the level of misogynism on Democratic Underground.

Progressives are not HERE. That's for certain. I think that all of the
true Liberals have fled this site.

[Joe the Revelator]

26. These types of post make me laugh so hard.

When all else fails, hit the Misogny button!

[pnwmom]

33. When the only correct button is "Misogyny," then that's the one to hit.

Referring to a woman's laugh as a "cackle" -- something a witch or a hen does -- IS sexist.

[Joe the Revelator]

38. Its an adjective that fits the sound that Hillary's laugh makes.

Political correctness is not going to make me afraid to use the english language properly.

[pnwmom]

49. It doesn't sound anything like a cackle. No more than any woman's laugh

sounds like a cackle. Other than the witch in the Wizard of Oz, that is.

[jgraz]

77. Google "he cackled": 23,000 hits. "she cackled": 23,400 hits.

So I guess the word is about 2% sexist. You caught us!

[SOS]

79. Oxford English Dictionary agrees

cackle
verb
(of a bird, typically a hen or goose) give a raucous, clucking cry : the hen was cackling as if demented | ( cackling) cackling, whooping cries.
• make a harsh sound resembling such a cry when laughing : she cackled with laughter | “Ah ha!” he cackled.

[jgraz]

80. Ah, what use are facts and reference works when you can rely on personal prejudice?

BTW, "she cackles": 7820 "he cackles": 10500. Whoops.

[ClarkUSA]

50. Cackling is a perfect term for the sound I heard... I thought I was in a Grimm's fairytale

Scary stuff, indeed.

[JDPriestly]

54. It isn't just women who cackle. Thieves cackle. Villains in movies cackle. And

the thieves and villains are usually male. If you think the term "cackle" is sexist, it is probably because you haven't read enough to realize that it is used to describe malevolent laughs of men as well as women.

Here are a few examples:

On the cross, he is mocked by Caiaphas and the Temple priests, and by the thief to his right, who tells him to save them all if he is truly the Son of God. Jesus prays, "Father forgive them, they know not what they do." The thief on his right tells Caiaphas, "Listen, He prays for you." The Good Thief then tells Jesus his punishment is just, and that Jesus would be justified in condemning him, but he says, "Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom." Jesus tells the thief "On this day, you will be with me in paradise." As the other thief cackles with laughter over this, a crow comes from the sky and plucks at his face.

http://www.answers.com/topic/the-passion-of-the-christ?cat=entertainment

Once inside the challenge area, Stony will inform you of a speedy little Thief running around with one of your lost eggs. This little Thief has the same childish cackle as his Cloud Spires counterpart, so his taunting should lead you right to him on the racetrack.

http://guidesarchive.ign.com/guides/14725/w1.html

Steve Geng wrote a memoir, "Thick as Thieves," after years of being a junkie and shoplifter. He fairly cackles at the curveballs life has thrown his way. (By Helayne Seidman For The Washington Post)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/25/AR2007052502214_3.html

Another way to uncover a hidden offer is to be obvious about it. If the thief cackles maniacally while lifting the painting and is very obviously hiding something in his shirt when the guard returns, the players will be in step. Subtlety is not the angle you want here. The guard can still search frantically for the painting, but at least the player inside the guard knows what the hell is going on.
http://www.withoutannette.net/blog/index.php?m=200509

Every so often his villain's cackle would echo through the newsroom.
http://books.google.com/books?id=DLwvMhtOa98C&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=villain+cackle&source=web&ots=Pn1QQf9UPl&sig=ROeJa62cSeyiPqSnwJEDNt5FAro

The earliest movies were silent, so theaters hired musicians to evoke what the actors could not. Pianists poked out a sugary sweet twitter in place of a flirty giggle, a low-threatening rumble stood in for a villain's cackle, a light tune might signify a joke. Audiences got it, and they appreciated the musical cues.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Movies/02/11/sound.of.movies/index.html

Just google villain and cackle or thief and cackle. Those who read a lot generally know that cackle is not a sexist term.

[Bongo Prophet]

62. So, not sexist, but something villains and junkies do? Is that better?

I don't like the "shrill" and "cackle" characterizations, myself.
Even though I realize they are not STRICTLY sexist, they can be used that way.
Since they are in the ear of the beholder, argument is pretty pointless.


It is good to remember, whosoever wins the nom will be someone MOST of us will need to support.
Less rancor will help us pull together to beat the GOP in the general.

We should probably reflect on that from time to time.

[JDPriestly]

69. Hopefully, we will not be placed in the position of needing to support Hillary.

It isn't that I hate Hillary. It is that we have better candidates -- like Edwards, Obama, Biden, Dodd, Richardson and Kucinich. With choices like that, why settle for a cackler. Hillary is a great senator. She should stay in the Senate. We have better choices for president.

[cali]

70. gee, hate to break it to you

but not everyone agrees with you. Opinion is NOT fact. And some of your posts do indeed give credibility to the estimation that you do hate Clinton- like your post about her laugh indicating that she's a bad person. Ugh.

[D-Sooner]

78. Misogyny!

Everybody panic!!!!111!1

Even if the word cackle is used exclusively to describe the laughter of women (and it isn't), what's wrong with that? There are lots of positive and negative descriptors that are gender specific. Women are "lovely" and men are "handsome." Does that keep you up at night too?

[emilyg]

28. Thank you Emily Post.

[MaraJade]

18. Simple Answer--

NOPE!

It only seems out of place if one views her as not acting "LADYLIKE."

[truedelphi]

25. She's been drinking the blood necessary for her to become Dracula In Chief

Last night I was falling asleep and a sound blip of Hillary came across the radio - "I will be your leader if you will follow."

Woke me straight up - that did.

Like the path to hell paved with gold and good intentions.

I want someone with less "strength" (As she and the DLC would define it) and more willingness to dialogue.

[Hieronymus]

29. Yes

[ruggerson]

31. Of course it was out of place

it was coarse and unfeminine and aggressive and well, downright, bitchy.

Now, had one of the other candidates let out a hearty guffaw, that would have been fine. And would have betrayed a great sense of humor and an easy self confidence.

[pnwmom]

34. You got it, ruggerson! n/t

[NCarolinawoman]

32. No n/t

[question everything]

36. No. And shame of Howard Fineman (I think)

who, on Chris Matthews, claimed that she laughter stopped when Obama turned to her. There was a clip - perhaps on Olbermann - where she was still laughing after his comment.

And she laughed because it was funny that he was using former Clinton's people. At least, amusing.

[Der Blaue Engel]

39. It seemed like everyone was enjoying the mood of the debate, actually

I didn't see it as out of place at all.

[Jim Sagle]

41. But...but...but THAT would mean this WHOLE THREAD is (gasp!!!!!) JUST A BUNCHA SHIT!!!!!!

[Der Blaue Engel]

42. I've had my hip waders on for a while, now

;)

[TwilightGardener]

43. Yep. It was meant as a put-down. I still have the image of Obama

in my head, looking down at the podium and waiting for her to stop belittling him.

[cherokeeprogressive]

44. CROCODILE laugh. N/T

[ClarkUSA]

51. More like an hyena, actually...

Yeah, that's it.

[Beacool]

45. If you had heard Hillary laugh in a normal setting

you would know that she has a hearty laugh, none of this girlish giggles that some women have. I don't see anything wrong with it and it's even contagious. The moderator thought so too as she was also laughing at Obama's response.

I don't blame Hillary for laughing, the hypocrisy was too precious to miss. Here's a guy who keeps mentioning that we shouldn't go back to the 90s and he's surrounded by former Clinton advisers in his campaign.

[maddiejoan]

46. stop making sense

This is DU

[Bongo Prophet]

64. Now there is an irony the pundits are too snarky to point out

The similarity of their positions on MOST issues vs the rhetoric of "change" and "leadership" and so on.
They are closer to each other than they can admit, as it messes with their slogan/themes.

May the best PR package win!
Hillary can't say he has lousy advisors, nor can Barack claim to be treading totally new territories.

[THUNDER HANDS]

65. how is that hypocritical?

he has advisers who have experience. Which is sort of smart. You don't want advisors without experience, or else what basis do they have for advising anything.

But people are voting for Obama, not his advisors. They want a change candidate, who will seek counsel from all corners, and some of those will include people who worked on Clinton's team.

I don't see anything hypocritical about that.

[loveangelc]

48. yeah

[JDPriestly]

52. Hillary is mean. She was laughing because she thought the

question would make Obama look stupid. She thought the question checkmated Obama. I am not an Obama supporter, but I thought Hillary's laugh made her look really nasty. And I think that is what she is. I think she is mean-spirited and not a kind, loving person. Maybe that explains her marital problems.

[Nimrod2005]

59. Bingo

[Think82]

56. WHO CARES? Honestly, people. The political discourse in this country has been reduced to

the level of high-school gossip. Sheesh.

[cali]

57. I'm cackling right now

over the utter inanity of this. This, is what passes for political discourse these days on DU. Post after post about whether Clinton's laugh was inappropiate- or worse. One poster is claiming that *gasp* this moment shows what a bad person she is.

Who says DUers are smarter than the average voter? More politicall informed, sure. Smarter? Now that is debatable.

[oscarmitre]

58. I was driving home from work

and listening to the radio, and this is in Aus. I was toddling along listening to the report and they played a couple of clips. I heard her. She brayed. I cringed.

[jefferson_dem]

66. I played it for a couple of casual political observers last night, without my commentary...

Their first reaction was..."what the hell was that crazy laughing about." They also thought Obama zinged her damn good.

[Perry Logan]

67. Y'all are creepin me out here...

[sniffa]

71. was it a cackle?

[Adelante]

72. No, I didn't think it was

Her laugh never bothers me. Obama took the moment away from her. But her laugh? Meh.

[zulchzulu]

73. Besides Hillary's laugh, the real question is why past Clinton advisors went to Obama

Why are they advising Obama instead of returning to the Clinton camp?

:shrug:

As for her laugh, it wasn't surprising. Obama was very quick to zap back at her arrogance. It was priceless.

[LanternWaste]

75. Yup... a candidates laugh is very revealing about their planned policies

Yup... a candidates laugh is very revealing about their planned policies. One can only surmise that a giggle is indicative of a maniacal plutocrat, while a cackle illustrates a candidate that is (insert favorite one liner to put down candidate here).

A chuckle though is the most insidious of them all. Hell, Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot all chuckled-- so we know we better not elect a Chuckler!

Let's not leave the Guffaws out, though. Although mostly unnoticed, a Guffawer will usually wind up being a complete boob with no working knowledge of the reality based world in which we live.

What of the unsung hero-- the Titterer? This is what we're really looking for in a candidate, by golly. When you have someone who titters, you know that you have a good, solid candidate who will work for all of the American people.




Just in case-- just on the very slight chance I overestimate the common sense, wit and wisdom of this thread's gentle readers....

:sarcasm:

[applegrove]

76. No it wasn't awkward. It was funny.