Reactions to the Obama drug flap present a deep moral paradox

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

I do not give a damn whether anyone used most drugs last week, let alone decades ago. Meth and Coke would be a problem for a sitting President because they make you paranoid and violent-minded, and prescription downers like GWB probably relies on do impair judgment, but I wouldn't care if a sitting President smoked pot sometimes... it would be less dangerous than taking an occasional drink. (Nixon's boozing got so out of hand that Alexander Haig and Henry Kissinger conspired to ensure that the President couldn't start a nuclear war while drunk.)

So I quite sincerely do not care one whit about whether a candidate used drugs many years ago, except a teeny-tiny bit insofar as it reveals a personality type. A person who never liked drugs at all gets a small plus from me... it makes them alien to me, and kind of goody-two-shoes, but implies a certain level of reliability I do not have... I am not always happy with the mental state I'm dealt.

But there is a perplexing moral aspect to the statement, "A candidate having used coke is no big deal."

The problem is, we have destroyed a big chunk of a few generations of people by locking them up like animals for doing coke! So society obviously thinks doing coke is a VERY big deal. When you cage a person and even strip away their franchise, that's a big a deal as society has to offer. (If non-violent drug felons were not stripped of the right to vote in Florida, Al Gore would have won handily there, by a margin too big to steal.)

I have a gigantic problem with this Obama story, not for what it says about Obama, but for what it says about our society. If Barack Obama had rounded the wrong corner one day when he was 19, and been picked up by the cops right after scoring some coke, he wouldn't be running for President. He might not even be able to vote! And the difference involved is pure dumb luck. Nothing more. God knows I could have been thrown in jail for a zillion things when I was younger, but I was lucky. Not smart... L-U-C-K-Y. I can vote today only because I was lucky... something to think about. If Senator Obama had happened to be picked up by the cops he wouldn't be any less smart, charming or good hearted. But he couldn't run for congressman, let alone President.

And that is my problem with this. The average American probably agrees that a candidate's prior drug use is no big deal, while tacitly agreeing with caging people who do drugs. It is insane. How can we, as a nation, cage people for the simple bad luck of getting caught doing things so many of us, and our children, have done and gotten away with?

The correct answer is that if a politicians youthful drug history is no big deal (which I agree with), then we need to stop caging young people for something we (as a nation) consider no big deal!!!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I've never done illegal drugs

but since the age of 16, I've realized the stupidity of our "War on Drugs" and have always maintained that drug addiction is a medical, not a criminal situation. Drugs should be dispensed legally, safely, and cheaply--this will get the criminal element out of the drug scene. Of course this is not likely to happen because it takes power away from police and governments to oppress whomever they wish, and it would rob the CIA of a major source of its income.

[panader0]

5. I've down to only pot and beer now

but in my younger days, in the late 60's and early 70's, I tried it all. The legal drugs are bad too. So mmany more ads are on TV now for drugs and the side effects sound worse than the original ailment. What is Restless Leg Syndrome? When I was a kid they hadn't made up the term Pre Menstrual Syndrome. Now there is a syndrome for everything, because drug companies want people to use some BS product.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

7. And the ads for restless leg syndrome describe side-effects like sexual misbehavior, gambling, etc.

From the ads it sounds like a sinister new party-drug waiting to happen.

[Flabbergasted]

8. Smart reply.

I differ in only one way. Not cheaply and not easily.

I'd tax "lighter drugs" lightly and heavy drugs heavily. For example opium would be relatively cheap compared to heroin.

In addition purely chemical drugs such as LSD, and Meth would still be illegal.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. Chemically pure LSD is actually a fairly harmless drug.

Back when it was legal people took amazing doses repeatedly without a problem. Cary Grant tripped a zillion times (as therapy... it was a psycho-analysis fad drug when it was still legal) Later post-prohibition LSD tended to be mixed with God knows what... strychnine, speed, etc, and that kind of mix accounted for a lot of bad trips.

LSD poses problems for the incipient mentally ill, but all drugs do... alcohol perhaps most of all. (And religion and love, of course. Major risk factors)

And LSD is not addictive.

(on edit: It is very easy to fuck with tripping people... I don't mean to suggest the CIA LSD experiments were not awful, but friendly therapeutic uses of the same drug at the same time had different results)

Meth, on the other hand, is about like Crack... super addictive and makes people real assholes.

[Flabbergasted]

13. delete. wrong thread.

[Bobbieo]

14. Don't worry, Smart reply - Opium is on its way thanks to the bumper crop

this year in Afghanistan!!!!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. I have several friends

from across the political spectrum who indulge in smoking pot. They all agree (even the conservatives and Libertarians) that it would make more sense to legalize pot and to tax it than to keep it illegal.

The only reason I'd legalize all drugs is to take out the profit motive. I've seen how horrible meth has been on poor rural folks--who say they went into production because it was the easiest way to make big money. Perhaps these would be had only by going to a clinic, as they do in Britain.

[Warpy]

19. LSD quite possibly has legitimate medical uses

but it was put on Schedule 1 before they were completely explored.

Quite likely, methamphetamine could also have uses milder amphetamines can't touch.

I did LSD recreationally, along with every other drug I could get my hands on, and it was one of three drugs I found impressive. Its use is self limiting for most people because once you've learned what it has to teach, each successive trip becomes increasingly anticlimactic.

Methamphetamine was a horrible, jangling drug with a rotten crash. I can't imagine doing it more than a few times, and then only when I was young and nothing else was available, which is probably the situation with most people now. People who become addicted to it become living warnings about that drug, an important job. The same goes for crack cocaine.

I'm against the drug war, period. I think there are better drugs and worse drugs and they closer they are to the way they come out of the ground, the more benign they're likely to be (although coca turns your teeth brown). However, I'm against making them illegal and throwing people into prison for using any of them.

You can't legislate morality of any type. You can only fund compassionate treatment for people who run into trouble. I would prefer cutting off the flood of dollars into the international DEA rathole and invest in human beings, instead.

[Flabbergasted]

20. For that matter stop the flood of billions upon billions into foreign countries. nt

[Whisp]

23. make a miserable society and feed it more misery...

make the fight amongst the pleebs, whether it be religion, sex, immigrant. and all those other soap opera things that we have been conditioned to.
and fill the prisons and evacuate humanity.

Poppy Bush knows the program, and works it.
and it's working.

[BenDavid]

2. But, if and that is a big IF, obama was doing coke after he said

he had stopped then a lie is told and can we over look the lie? If he sold coke when he said he didn't and proven he did then that too is a lie. Can we over look a lie?

All this jumping on HRC is silly because what has she said that is not truth? I say give it 2 weeks and the truth will come out about Obama and it will not be HRC or her campaign's doing.....

Politics is a damn rough sport and sometimes being nice will get yo ass beat....i e gore in 2000, kerry in 2004....and if obama gets the nominee 2008..... all because HRC said she was the only candidate that was fully vetted.....

Ben David

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. C'mon... there are plenty of threads for partisan stuff like that. This is about national attitudes

[Fridays Child]

3. Good post!

k/r

[aquart]

6. Agreed. So who's going to ask Obama about relaxing the drug laws?

[sandnsea]

31. He's already committed to making changes

I've already posted it. And already had it ignored. If you're truly interested, it's on his web site.

[JohnnyLib2]

10. Excellent points, and perhaps something to question candidates

about in months ahead. Right now I'm wondering, which of the Democrats might actually take some steps on this matter if elected?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

11. The President can pardon or parole all non-violent drug offenders, but I

don't expect anyone to run on that! It's too moral to be politically popular.

[JohnnyLib2]

15. Clarification:

I meant proposals to modify laws or policy AFTER the election. Presidential tone-setting, if you will.

For sure, it can't be a campaign issue!

[AZ Criminal JD]

24. The President can not do that

The President can only pardon drug offenders who have committed federal crimes. Those in state prisons, the vast majority, the President can do nothing about.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

25. yer right. Thanks for the correction

[Whisp]

12. I think all Presidents should smoke up some jane.

while in office.
takes the edge off of that destruction thing.
hey, man, peace and all that.

[zabet]

16. We would just end up

invading some country
to liberate their doritoes.
:smoke:

[Whisp]

21. cool ranch only.

all those other flavours are the enemy!

[niyad]

17. have never done drugs, not because I am a "goody two-shoes" or anything, but simply because reality

has always looked weird enough to me without any help (that, and being allergic to pot!!)

agree that the "war on drugs" has been a waste, and, as far as I am concerned, a hoax. if pot, etc., were legalized, the entire network of DEA and other agencies would actually have to get real jobs.

[Whisp]

22. I'm saving that for my old age.

never did get into it in my youth much, a few tokes here and there, hash. Never did the coke thing.

but... i may like that stuff when I'm old and tired and bent and busted and have nothing much to lose to experiment. ;)
ack basswards, this drug thing this is. do it when you are old and discarded, not when you are young and possible.

peyote sounds like a possibility. but I still have time.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

30. The Aldous Huxley thing... didn't he get into psychedelics very very late in life?

[Whisp]

32. I don't know. but makes more sense to me.

why waste a possible, waste it when things get impossible... in the ageist frame of mind I mean.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

33. I think "The Doorways of Perception" details his experiences with it

[democrat2thecore]

26. You really hit home with this statement -- (inside)

"I have a gigantic problem with this Obama story, not for what it says about Obama,but for what it says about our society. If Barack Obama had rounded the wrong corner one day when he was 19, and been picked up by the cops right after scoring some coke, he wouldn't be running for President. He might not even be able to vote! And the difference involved is pure dumb luck."

The bit about Obama being at the wrong place at the wrong time back then - there would be no Obama campaign.

Edited to say: I meant to tell you that your post was very well thought out.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

28. It is human nature to be prouder of our luck than our accomplishments

You see it in casinos all the time... it's "The mandate of heaven"

And people consider the criminal justice system a Calvinist screen of who is good and bad.

I have driven drunk in my life (when quite young). If someone had stepped out in front of my car I would be a murderer, even if my condition contributed nothing to the accident. But nobody did. So today, as someone who doesn't drink at all, I could sit in judgement of others who had worse luck back in the day. If I was a real asshole. Which too many folks are.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

27. I completely agree with you. It reveals a big disconnect in our thinking.

One positive that may come from Obama's admission is that it opens the way a little more for prominent politicians to broach the subject of decriminalizing drugs without being painted as criminal coddling hippies. Drugs are one of the most polarized issues in our country. Strong supporters of the drug war and of locking up non-violent users are almost invariably conservative "law and order" types. Many less-conservative people support it to a certain extent because they have been fed years of anti-drug propaganda, but they are increasingly leaning toward decriminalization. Obama may not be the one figure who acts as the catalyst for change, but he's yet another human face who puts the lie to the notion that everyone who uses drugs is an evil monster.

I'd love it if he, or any of our mainstream candidates, could come out and say "Let's stop this travesty and legalize drugs. Let's tax and regulate them, as we do with alcohol and tobacco. When people have problems with them, let's treat it as a public health issue and not a criminal matter." Right now they can't do that because we, as a people aren't ready for it yet. We are getting closer, and ultimately it will be US, not the politicians who will make the change.

Many states have legalized medical marijuana. Many have also passed citizen's initiatives decriminalizing recreational use. As the Law and Order types die off, the younger people will be more supportive of saner drug laws. But you're right, it's outrageous that we are locking people up for it now.

[suston96]

29. The correct answer is that if a politicians youthful drug history is no big deal....

Uh, that's precisely what those kids in New Hampshire were thinking when he told them of his drug and alcohol usage.

No big deal! Look what happened to Obama! He did alright.