Did Bill Clinton Say What I think he said

[proudmoddemo]

I watched Clinton's interview with Charlie Rose last night. He said that things were going better in Iraq, "Partly because the surge has worked; partly because 5 million people have been ethnically cleansed and moved around."

Is Bill Clinton now saying that ethnic cleansing is a good thing? I found it to be a profoundly disturbing remark. We, as Americans, should never approve of ethnic cleansing or insinuate that it's a good thing...or a way to make things better.

Edited to add: around the 18:30 mark of the interview.

[MonkeyFunk]

1. How did he say that was a good thing?

That's silly.

[niceypoo]

64. The Clinton Haters are getting desperate

[IndianaJones]

2. yeah...thats what he meant. nt.

[sandnsea]

3. They are why Iraq is out of the headlines

The surge has worked. Well great. This is why nobody is talking about Iraq anymore. This is why we're giving Bush his war money. The Clintons.

When are people going to get it through their heads.

[jaksavage]

4. Bill was good

But he is lost to the dark side now.

[babylonsister]

5. ...

:wow: He agreed it was a good thing? Ugh.

[MonkeyFunk]

7. No

he didn't say it was a good thing. Don't be daft.

[proudmoddemo]

10. He said that he thought things were better

"Partly because of the surge and partly because 5 million people have been ethnically cleansed and moved around." 17:00 or so into the interview. Watch it for yourself.

[MonkeyFunk]

14. Nowhere does he say it's a good thing

he's explaining why the violence is down.

[proudmoddemo]

16. But if violence is down is a good thing

And that's one of the reasons that violence is down, then isn't it the logical conclusion that it's a good thing too?

[MonkeyFunk]

20. No

it's not logical at all.

He's explaining WHY violence is down - he's not advocating ethnic cleansing.

If you forcibly separate all the people who are fighting each other, violence will necessarily go down. It doesn't mean you endorse that as a solution to violence.

I could end murder in the United States by killing every citizen except myself. Then, after that, there would be no more murder. But it doesn't mean I endorse that as a method of reducing murder.

[Schema Thing]

22. my 5 kids were fighting in the back yard

so I killed them all but one. Violence is down to pre-second child levels, and that one child put a flower in my gun barrel; so sweet.

[proudmoddemo]

8. He implied that it was a good thing

Iraq is better now, "Partly because of the surge and partly because 5 million people have been ethnically cleansed and moved around," around the 17 minute mark of the interview, which is up on Google video.

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. He didn't say "Iraq is better", he said "the situation in Iraq is better".

My disagreement with him is in attributing ANY of the improvement to the surge. It is my contention that the only reason there may be a reduction in civil violence is that the neighborhoods, even whole towns, have been ethnically cleansed - they can't blow up people who are not there anymore. IOW, the militias WON.

That doesn't imply that ethnic cleansing is a good thing - but that it IS responsible for the reduction in violence. The cost to Iraq continues to unfold.

As Clinton went to war in Bosnia to PREVENT and STOP ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, it is disengenuous to suggest he approves of it today.

[proudmoddemo]

34. People can change

I agree he did the right thing in Bosnia. But it was thrown out there as to why the situation in Iraq is better. Less violence is, seemingly, better from the American perspective. And he didn't say, "unfortunately," before the ethnic cleansing remarks. If he had included that modifier, I would've had no problems with his statement. But he didn't...

[The Magistrate]

66. Less Violence, Sir

Is 'better' from just about anyone's perspective, particularly that of the living who are its objects.

Would you prefer high rates of murder at present?

"The dead know only it is better to be alive."

[proudmoddemo]

6. He said that the surge

He said that things were better in Iraq "partly because of the surge and partly because 5 million people have been ethnically cleansed and moved around." He didn't say whether he approved of that or not, he just said that it was part of the reason that things were better. I thought it, like the rest of the interview, was disgusting.

[Fredda Weinberg]

9. You're confusing the message w/the messenger. Bill Clinton was

stating a fact. And whatever the reason, reduced violence is a good thing.

[proudmoddemo]

11. Sorry if 5 million people had their lives up ended

Or were killed. That's not a good thing. Period. End of story.

[aquart]

25. Oh, that's simply idiotic. You should be ashamed.

So should your teachers and parents.

Five million people are not dead. Millions of people have been forced out of their homes, though. That's what ethnic cleansing is: leave or we kill you. These people, unlike some at DU, are not idiots. They left their homes. They took one suitcase each and fled their homes. Some to other places in Iraq, some across the borders to Iran and Syria...whoever would take them in.

Dead people are less of a political problem than live ones, you know. The dead can't speak. They don't need to be fed, sheltered or given medical care. Millions and millions of displaced Iraqis are ALIVE and in need. And we are doing NOTHING for them. Except proposing to invade the countries which have given them temporary shelter.

[proudmoddemo]

29. We don't really know how many people have died

Johns Hopkins estimated 650,000 in late 2005. It may be over a million by now. It may be far more than that. The military doesn't keep track of Iraqi casualties. The wounded and dead are easily over a million and probably 3 or 4 million, maybe 5 million. But you make a semi-valid point, so I edited my post.

[Fredda Weinberg]

26. I'll focus on the living. Their story ain't over. Really, ideology is no

excuse to prolong suffering. If we can extricate ourselves without doing futher damage, then let's proceed and never mind if the wrong people take "credit". There's no victory in Iraq ... but there is a future.

[lynnertic]

17. he was stating a fact that NOBODY ELSE IS STATING

he did it delicately but not well.

[madfloridian]

39. Fredda, did you really just say "whatever the reason"....

and thus excuse the ethnic cleansing statement? You said it is good violence is down whatever the reason....Bill Clinton said 5 million had been ethnically cleansed and moved around.

5 million as victims of ethnic cleansing IS violence.

[Fredda Weinberg]

41. Cut out this game of gotcha. It isn't good that my family is dead so I

could grow up here instead of behind the iron curtain. It just is. Now please, grow up and accept what is ... and don't preach to me about ethnic cleansing unless you're prepared to hear stories that'll make your hair turn grey.

[madfloridian]

43. That was a former president who said that.

I went back and watched the video twice..

It was a moment frozen in time. How many other of our Democrats who did not stand up against this invasion.....are aware of the millions who have been ethnically cleansed??

Did our invasion and the subsequent mass confusion and chaos contribute?

That is the question I am concerned about. Bill Clinton was way way too casual.

Do not project guilt on me. I know nothing of you, nor did I even pretend to do so.

You then of all people should not give this reason legitimacy.

You said: "And whatever the reason, reduced violence is a good thing"

If it is due to 5 million being "cleansed"...it is not an acceptable reason.

[Fredda Weinberg]

45. Says you. I say a reduction of violence is good no matter what.

And my viewpoint is as valid as yours ... and just as moral. No, you don't know anything about me - and I don't for an instant imagine that you could share my perspective on genocide. As the child of someone who survived Hitler, raised to oppose the inevitable rise of fascism here - nope, it's a unique world view.

So enjoy your outrage - it's timid compared to what I can muster. But I don't waste energy on that. Bill Clinton, since leaving office, has set up office in Harlem and done a great deal of good. He's working on tragedies all over the globe ... not just the ones we caused.

So get down from your high horse. Those of us who've seen real tragedy close up know that first thought should go to the living - and never hold their welfare hostage to an ideological need to cast one's opponents as failures. The middle east has suffered from this proxy nonsense for generations.

[proudmoddemo]

47. There are moral imperatives

And a reduction of violence at a tremendous cost--5 million lives--would not be worth it. It would only stoke fires and lingering resentments. See the Balkans, where the original atrocity happened 600 years ago, and where it was still an issue 50 generations later.

[Fredda Weinberg]

52. Only 600? My people hold grudges going back centuries.

That don't make it right.

Try to imagine, if you will, coming of consciousness aware of man's inhumanity to his fellow man. Knowing of atrocities that left everyone around you missing: grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins ... every holiday with tatooed arms reminds you that you have something to grieve as well as celebrate.

I respect the dead, but save my strength for the living. You want affirmation of their worth: you got it. But blaming Bill Clinton for not mouthing your platitudes is puerile.

And they are just platitudes; our judgment moving forward shouldn't consider how we got into this mess - just the least painful extrication. A reduction of violence, at great military cost, is as good a cover as any. I don't care if the political opposition claims "victory" ... it will be hollow, as are all military conquests.

There ... explicit enough for you? Now, why don't you support the Clintons' work around the world and HRC's domestic campaign, if, as you claim, you are a humanitarian.

[proudmoddemo]

54. Because HRC voted for the Iraq War

Deal breaker for me, especially the fact that she won't say she was wrong and acknowledge that it was a mistake. Hardly a humanitarian vote. NAFTA was hardly a humanitarian venture. The Clintons may say that they are humanitarians, but I don't believe them. I believe they are arrogant and about themselves more than anything else, therefore I am voting "ABC" in the primary--anybody but Clinton. My first choice is Richardson, then Obama, then Edwards, then Dodd, then Kucinich, then Gravel, then Biden, then a blank ballot.

[Fredda Weinberg]

57. She voted for continued UN inspections

and the administration moved despite the language of the bill. It's not HRC's place right now to take on the administration ... we got a taste of that at the beginning of the campaign. Her job was to represent our state well and she did.

Vote as you will in the primary. What I want to avoid is what I saw through the 70's ... groups with legitimate grievances who couldn't work well with others defecting publicly.

As for personal integrity, I can only judge people by what they do. Bill Clinton could have done anything ... he chose an office in Harlem and helped just by being there. Now that's the kind of thinking I can support - who minds if he's happy too?

I never asked HRC's office for help, but her reputation is that she offered superior constituent service. Again, judge by performance. The public expected her to wait out the 2004 cycle and she did. It's time.

So, I hope you can respect my decision in this campaign. Whatever yours, I bid you peace.

[proudmoddemo]

58. Give me a break

Even at the time, everybody knew that was a vote on whether or not to go to war with Iraq. Don't try to re-write history like that. Here's my own personal history: I advocated for the vote to authorize force. But then I saw a pattern developing towards war. After I saw Colin Powell's UN Presentation, I thought he was lying, and immediately sent out a mass e-mail to my friends opposing the war. Did Hillary do such a thing? The answer is no. She didn't have the courage to lead, which is what we need right now.

I agree avoiding public defections is a big time consideration. Which is why Hillary is the WRONG choice. She's been around for too long and made far too many enemies in the party to be able to effectively bring people together. We need a new start, which is why I'll be voting for Richardson or Obama or February 12th.

[Fredda Weinberg]

63. Give HRC a break ... she was our senator - and we did not want

her taking on national issues. Remember how she played good junior senator to Schumer? That's how conservative this state is ... but she's doing well here and we'll be well served if she makes it to the white house.

Good luck to your candidates, but I've been supporting mine even before Iraq and won't be distracted by the opposition's positioning. That vote was a trap and HRC avoided it. If you can't remember the details of the legislation, fine ... but I was following closely and the UN inspectors were supposed to finish their report after being let back in. Remember?

[madfloridian]

51. Oh, wow, Fredda....I think I will stay on my "high horse"...

if you are advocating the anything goes policy.

Thanks but no thanks.

You told me:

"So get down from your high horse. Those of us who've seen real tragedy close up know that first thought should go to the living - and never hold their welfare hostage to an ideological need to cast one's opponents as failures. The middle east has suffered from this proxy nonsense for generations."

For goodness sake. We attacked that country and turned it into a chaotic mess.

You go ahead and justify but I will stay on the "high horse" you say I am on.

You totally confound me with the heartless statements you make.

[Fredda Weinberg]

53. I'm not a soft headed liberal, if that's what you mean. I survived the

60's and frankly, was not impressed.

Heartless? Yes, that would be normal considering the traumatizing experience. But desensitization is no excuse for apathy ... and sympathy is no excuse for avoiding difficult decisions.

So it's a matter of tone. Bill Clinton focused, as I do, on those who can be saved and what we can do now. My attitude is unacceptable, because it doesn't express insincere suffering.

I've made my point ... we don't have to lecture each other @ DU. Primary silly season will end and we'll rally for the general ... I trust.

[madfloridian]

61. I have not met anyone else like you on this forum.

Your statements interpreting what I say are just unreal. You twist what I say, turn it on me, and then pretend you are a saint.

[Fredda Weinberg]

62. You accused me of excusing Clinton's "ethnic cleansing statement"

So don't accuse me of starting recriminations.

Meeting people outside your comfort zone should be part of everyone's education. Where I come from, it's sorely lacking. But civility is tough to maintain when you're called heartless and amoral. As for sainthood - heck no ... I'm just refined enough to remember this is a public message board and we should all mind our manners.

[madfloridian]

65. Oh, my, I am SO glad you are refined enough to put up with us peasants.

Bye, Fredda, I have tried.

[Fredda Weinberg]

67. Yeah, well, that's what to expect from

gentiles ... and if you can't find the humor in that - it's your problem, toots, not mine. I've made a successful transition from parochial to secular and if my dignity bothers you, then you've got issues.

[hedgehog]

12. Based only on the clip in the OP, I wouldn't say that President Clinton approved of

ethnic cleansing as a technique. It sounds that he made the observation that the fighting and killing have died down since it's hard to fight with people once you've driven them out of the neighborhood. If anything, it sounds as if he was criticizing those who credit the surge for something that was actually accomplished through ethnic cleansing.

[proudmoddemo]

13. Perhaps

And a fair point, but still he was saying how things have gotten better in Iraq, and included ethnic cleansing as one of the reasons...

[durrrty libby]

15. No, I would blame it on your poor comprehension and or twisted

Clinton Hate.

[Bitwit1234]

18. Gee all those Hillary hating psychic's now they are telling us

what a person meant and what they believe, even tho they never personally met and sat down and talked to them...gee no wonder they support the other candidate.

[aquart]

19. No, he's saying that things are peaceful because everyone's dead.

Which is true, isn't it?

But you've now decided that Clinton, the great parser, is endorsing mass murder? He just told you: MASS MURDER IS WHY THE SURGE IS "working."

Name a day he EVER advocated that. Use what's left of your mind to remember how long he tried to get intervention in Yugoslavia. And how long Europe refused to intervene. But he kept at them until we all went to protect what was left of the Bosnian Muslims.

Yeah, Bill really favors ethnic cleansing. It's just his favorite thing.

Get a grip.

[madfloridian]

21. When one speaks of 5 million being ethnically cleansed....express disapproval

at the very least. Don't just toss it out there.

[aquart]

28. Anyone else "tossing it out there"?

Provide links.

[proudmoddemo]

36. Here's one

Watch video. About 18 minutes into the interview is when it comes up...

http://www.charlierose.com/guests/bill-clinton

[proudmoddemo]

30. Excalty

He just tossed it out there with an "awe shucks," attitude about it.

[peacetalksforall]

23. Are you sure that wasn't RIchard Perle? If true, this is awful.

I am nearly crying - how I have fought and defended the Clintons. Are they making a fool of me? Do Democrats also have their gullible lemmings?

Reid is speaking.

Betrayal all around me.

I'm a lemming.

[aquart]

27. Utterly ridiculous.

But while you're here, I have this bridge to sell you, cheap.

[MonkeyFunk]

32. You cry over

a baseless smear you read on the internet?

[proudmoddemo]

35. Not a baseless smear

The 18:30 minute mark of the interview. Things are better in Iraq "Violence is down partly because of the surge, partly because 5 million people have been ethnically cleansed and moved around; and partly because, and I'm really proud of this, the Democratic candidates won't just pull out of Iraq."

He said it, not me. I found it to be a profoundly disturbing statement. If he had included the modifier unfortunately, then I would've had less of a problem with his statement. But he didn't...watch it on google video...

[MonkeyFunk]

38. and NOWHERE

in that quote does he express approval of ethnic cleansing. It's absurd to think that he did.

[proudmoddemo]

49. And NOWHERE

Did Clinton say that ethnic cleansing was a bad thing in that interview.

[RaleighNCDUer]

55. Nothing there implies approval of ethnic cleansing.

What IS disturbing is that last phrase, left off your original post: "and partly because, and I'm really proud of this, the Democratic candidates won't just pull out of Iraq."

THAT is a bizarre, and very scary statement. 1) Does he honestly believe the insurgents give a crap about what some American politician they've never heard of says about withdrawing from Iraq? 2) It is a clear indication that he agrees with Hillary's "end the war by the end of my 2nd term" withdrawal plan. Fucking Vietnam only lasted 11 years - she's pushing for 13 for Iraq. Maybe we can get a 50,000 soldier body count there, as well.

[proudmoddemo]

59. Well said, that's also a facutally statement from BC

Richardson, a major candidate, says he'd pull out all troops within 30 days...

[peacetalksforall]

56. !. Who else speaks positives about the surge?

2. Not even Cheney or Bush speaks about ethnic cleansing.

If true, the #2 part of the quotes is just awful.

I agree with you.

I grieve because, if true, it means we can only trust a handful of our leaders.

We not only have a very organized enemy among us with the Republicans, we have someone we supported all the way.

[proudmoddemo]

60. But he was against it before he was for it

If you believe him now, he says he opposed the war from the start...yeah right...

[paulk]

42. actually, you're making a fool of yourself

anyone who believes that Bill Clinton favors ethnic cleansing is -

off the charts.

[suston96]

24. Know what, as long as he doesn't say that Hillary invented the internet......

...you know how people cannot help repeating lies often enough so they sound true.

[proudmoddemo]

33. He said it:

Watch the tape. Mentioned ethnic cleansing as a reason why things were going better in Iraq, didn't say he disapproved of it. Just threw it out there with an "awe shucks," attitude.

[suston96]

37. I parsed what he said...that means, grammatically speaking ....

...he said no such thing. But by all means, keep repeating it. It might catch on.

[cali]

48. He's explaining to dim people that it's not an American success

He's explaining that the relative lull in violence is due to ethnic cleansing. It's not his fault that some people are either so mendacious or irredeemably stupid.

[Forkboy]

40. I don't take the quote that way at all.

He simply made a statement about it happening and the effect it has had. I don't take it to mean he thinks that's a good thing and that he's glad it happened.

[madfloridian]

44. It was the casual way he said it.

That was what hit me hard. 5 million. I think all of us at DU sort of figured this stuff was going on, things that no one talked about....but to say it so casually was what bothered me.

[Forkboy]

46. I can understand that.

There's a casualness about the whole thing that's been bothering me all along. It's like business as usual at this point, and it's sad.

[proudmoddemo]

50. Well said

I agree. It was worth the word "unfortunately," or "sadly," at the least. And it was probably worth far more than that. And don't tell me that he's not smart enough to think about that on his feet. He clearly is.