To what extent has Nancy Pelosi betrayed the wishes of Democratic voters?

[mtnsnake]

Poll question: To what extent has Nancy Pelosi betrayed the wishes of Democratic voters?

[wyldwolf]

1. I would rather see more specifics

What actions has she taken, how have they betrayed the the wishes of Dem voters and how do we KNOW they have?

[DainBramaged]

3. You're kidding, right????

[wyldwolf]

7. no. Here's what I want

1. What specific actions has she taken that have "betrayed" the Dem voters.
2. What do her constituents in her district say about her? Do THEY feel betrayed? They're the ones who voted for her.
3. What measurements are we using to determine this betrayal?
4. Since the Dem electorate didn't elect her to her speaker position, exactly who has she "betrayed?"

[DainBramaged]

11. Here's what I want

1) The winning Power Ball ticket when it crosses the $100 million threshold.
2) The sight in my right eye back
3) Nancy Pelosi to hunker down and drag the holdouts and defectors from the Party line feet to the fire and present a united front to the Bush rethugs
4)Impeachment proceedings against Cheney on the table, hearings and/trials for Rumsfeld, contempt of Congress charges against Bush.

I think that's sufficient right now..

[wyldwolf]

13. move to San Francisco and start a movement.

[DainBramaged]

15. I already had a movement today.

[wyldwolf]

16. did it help with you issues with Pelosi? Or do you think posting on DU will?

[DainBramaged]

17. I have issues with Reid and Pelosi, but that won't get them out of their positions

And there is NO ONE WITH BALLS to run against them.

[mtnsnake]

12. It's what she HASN'T done, wolfie, that's betrayed us more than anything

She practically did everything possible to make sure Bush wasn't impeached, and now we're learning why (things like the recent revelation that she was one of four people to have known about waterboarding torture, but she never came forth about it. Makes one realize now why she took impeachment off the table so quick...she was worried about her own hide).

She's done very little to get us out of Iraq. We all took it for granted that she would go for the jugular, concerning getting us out of Iraq, and boy did she let us all down, bigtime.

For a majority leader, Bush has OWNED her.

[grasswire]

35. excellent, thank you for your calm logic

Mighty rare around here.

[DainBramaged]

2. I felt so much pride when she took the gavel from Bonner

Now I feel she and Harry Hide 'em have betrayed our trust.


We need leaders with BRASS BALLS

[cali]

4. where's the option for hang, draw and quarter? n/t

[mtnsnake]

8. lol, lots of things like that crossed my mind!

:evilgrin:

[KingFlorez]

5. Hardly

She's tried to end the war, but has been vetoed by Bush. I don't think it's fair to blame her for Bush blocking change. I think people fail to realize that Pelosi does not have executive power and cannot just issue orders to change things.

[cynthia]

9. She could just keep bringing back the same bill with timelines

and show some guts, instead of giving in and sending Bush a blank check. Anytime a bill comes up with no timelines, she could just not allow it to come up for a vote.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. Yeah, and why hasn't she blocked Bush's initiatives?

They DO have the votes for that.

[Clovis Sangrail]

33. BS

after that first veto she caved when she should have shown leadership.
She did *nothing to try to rally opposition to the modified funding request.

I get so pissed when I hear this "but bush would just veto it" crap.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO SEND HIM WHAT HE WANTS
PERIOD

With control of both houses the dems could block *any legislation ... provided they had actual leadership.

I don't lay all the blame for legislative cowardice on Nancy, but as a party "leader" she gets an extra big helping.

[Historic NY]

6. The American voters didn't elected her speaker, her peers did.

[mtnsnake]

14. That's true, but without the American voters, she'd be minority Speaker at best, not majority, and

on top of that, she's supposed to represent the wishes of the voters. The voters are the people who put all their asses in the comfy jobs they've got.

[MonkeyFunk]

18. and the voters

elected Democrats knowing that they weren't pushing impeachment, and the majority of voters still aren't clamoring for impeachment.

[mtnsnake]

20. But the voters still took it for granted that Pelosi & Co. would do their best to get us out of Iraq

...impeachment or no impeachment.

Just the same, her taking impeachment off the table as a first order of business was an omminous sign of things to come.

[MonkeyFunk]

24. And if Pelosi had executive power

we WOULD be out of Iraq. She's tried. The President vetoed.

And saying impeachment is off the table wasn't her first order of business - she said it in October of 2006, BEFORE the election.

[sniffa]

21. and i take it you aren't?

or are you just quoting some polls (which i assume you are) to inform people that the status quo is what the people want?

if you're against impeachment, i'd like to know why. if you are, not i'd like to know why you defend quite vociferously those who are against it (whether passively or actively).

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sniffa]

32. i appreciate your response

i expect no less of you. :thumbsup:

[MonkeyFunk]

37. That's exactly what I was talking about

Hope you enjoyed alerting on my honest assessment. I thought it was rather gentle.

[sniffa]

55. feel free to take off the kid gloves

:hi:

[The Magistrate]

39. That Is A Very Simplistic Analysis, Mr. Sniffa

As you doubtless know perfectly well, conviction on any Bill of Impeachment would not be returned by the Senate.

Clamoring for what cannot occur, in this case the removal from office of the present chiefs of the Executive before the end of the current term, is an activity reserved dilettantes and amateurs and people who enjoy making a display of their weakness. It is not something that will appeal to people actually in positions of power and responsibility.

Thus, the matter hardly resolves cleanly into people who are 'for' impeachment, and people who are 'against' it, and 'defend vociferously those who are against it'. The real divide mostly separates people who recognize the practicalities of the actual situation from people who wish matters were different than they actually are. Most of the 'vociferous defending' consists not in 'opposition' to impeachment, but in recognizing the surreal and over the top quality of many accusations made against leading Democratic Party political leaders by persons who apparently consider that 'if my grandma had wheels, she'd be a wagon' constitutes a serious guide to political policy and action.

[stimbox]

27. Do you live in district 8 monkey fu*k?

If so, then you should be familiar with:
Proposition J
Adopting a Policy Calling for the Impeachment of President Bush and Vice President Cheney
City of San Francisco
Majority Approval Required
Pass: 133,042 / 58.53% Yes votes ...... 94,282 / 41.47% No votes

[MonkeyFunk]

29. Not anymore... I used to

but I was responding to the idea that the majority of American voters want impeachment, not San Francisco voters.

[stimbox]

47. But Pelosi is not beholden to the majority of American voters.

She is supposed to represent her constituents in District 8, a job which we elected her to do and one which she is failing to do.

[MonkeyFunk]

50. Don't care

that's not the argument I was responding to.

[suston96]

19. Congress is a legislative body and not a wishing well.

Congress is a bi-cameral legislature. That means that it takes BOTH chambers to enact laws.

There is a decent majority in the House but not even close in the Senate, thereby stymieing whatever efforts either one tries to make.

Maybe in November 2008 that can be fixed. Until then, in the immortal words of Archie Bunker: stifle !

[DainBramaged]

22. Stifle my wrinkled old ass, her and Harry Hide 'Em have been outmaneuvered

at every turn by the Thuglies, and they are the two most important people in Congress. They could have invoked the "nuclear" option, tied up the Congress, kept the legislature going 24 hours a day until the Pukes caved, and what did we get?


Status quo, Bush wins every hand.

[mtnsnake]

23. Yup, they've been had and so have we. nt

[Perry Logan]

25. The minute she was replaced, y'all would start bitching about her successor.

[sniffa]

26. not necessarily

but you know that.

[stimbox]

28. Her constituents voted for impeachment.

Proposition J
Adopting a Policy Calling for the Impeachment of President Bush and Vice President Cheney
City of San Francisco
Majority Approval Required
Pass: 133,042 / 58.53% Yes votes ...... 94,282 / 41.47% No votes

And she ignores us.

[DainBramaged]

31. So there WAS a movement in San Francisco!!!!!!!

[stimbox]

48. There is a movement still. We are being ignored by our Representative. n/t

http://www.beachimpeach.org/

[rasputin1952]

34. I have seen on several occasions, threads that have shown

D accomplishments under Pelosi.

It is easy to understand why people disparage her, basically because the House has not done what some wanted.

Politics is a complicated business, and Pelosi has outflanked the R's on several occasions. Not all is "bad" or "pathetic"...ther have been things we've waited years for that have come about.

I too can think of things that should have happened, but this is not the way it panned out. It is OK to be angry, but it is not OK to just sweep wins under the rug either.

Pelosi is not going to step down, she is not going to be "forced" down...the best thing people can do is get in touch w/their Congresscritters, and keep hammering away at them, letting them know just how disgusted you are with the way they have voted and tossed their spines to the sharks.

If you want some honesty, sitting on DU complaining means nothing in the Grand Scheme, only action, be it phone calls, letters, e-mails, going to Town Hall meetings, is going to get anything done.

I think this is about the 450th thread during the year about this subject. While i love discussion and find much wisdom here on DU, I also see a lot of frustration that is not being dealt with because people prefer to complain, as opposed to act.

[grasswire]

36. why don't the disenchanted start hammering the obstructionists?

Democrats do not have the power to implement what the voters want.

Republicans DO have the power. They can stop obstructing Congress through their shenanigans.

Republicans have the power to stop the war. Democrats don't.

Republicans have the power to stop GWB's decimation of the Constitution. Democrats don't.

And so it goes.

And yet people here will spend untold energy bashing the Democrats for what GWB is doing.

GO BEAT ON A REPUBLICAN if you want some action.

[DainBramaged]

38. They don't listen

I call ALL of my Rethug Reps here in NJ and most of the time he people who answer the phone won't give you 30 seconds if you aren't positive about them

[grasswire]

40. even if they don't listen, the pressure registers

If 10,000 DU-ers were to regularly call Republicans, believe me there would be some movement.

[rasputin1952]

42. Starting w/a collective bowel movement in the R camp...

I am often amazed at how many times we actually refuse to take Congresscritters to task on a personal basis.

I am stuck w/Fortenberry, but he may just lose this next time out, he only squeaked by in the last election in a very heavy R District.

I never let them off the hook when they show up in town, and Fortenberry in particular, gets hammered each time a serious question is asked...he is an idiot.

[mtnsnake]

45. That's always good advice

but it would be nice if they acknowledged your inquiries sometimes.

My wife and I each sent brief letters by snail mail to her office in DC. They were polite in context, although we each expressed our utter disappointment with the way things weren't happening. We included our email address in the letters for convenience sake. We still have yet to hear anything back, but I would imagine Nancy gets a pile of letters just like those everyday.

[rasputin1952]

46. I have found that handwritten letters get special attention...

One thing about bulk e-mail though, like fighting for/against a Bill, is tht #'s mean a lot, even if they don't actually read past the first one or two items. When one gets 2000 e-mails about a Bill, people listen.

Thank you for seeing that the best way to get things done is to be a part of the process, great job!...:D

[mtnsnake]

49. That's what we've found, too, although not so much in this case

where we sent them handwritten (snail mail) to her. Other times, though, the handwritten letters have worked nicely.

This is a little off topic, but I did learn one trick when trying desperately to contact someone. I had a serious problem once where an advertising salesman literally forged my name to a business contract with Yellow Book. The bills started coming month after month, and after a while they started coming with interest tacked on and mild threats for not paying. Well shit, I wasn't about to pay for something I never agreed to buy. I tried endlessly by phone to resolve the incident, never accusing anyone by name of the forgery, just pointing out what had happened. They had me send copies of my signature by snail mail to prove the sig wasn't mine. I never heard back. They said they never got my letter. Then I re-sent another one and the same thing, I never heard back. They said the agent taking care of it probably misplaced the letter or that it got lost in transition somewhere. I asked to talk to superiors on the phone to no avail. After 4 frustrating months of getting bill after bill for a contract that I never agreed to buy, I decided I would contact the CEO of Yellow Book somehow and tell him what happened and how the people working under him were of little use in getting things resolved properly. It didn't take me long to find the name of the CEO online, and I sent him a handwritten letter of what happened to me and mailed it to one of the main offices of Yellow Book. The thing I did, though, to make sure this letter found its mark, was I sent it by certified mail. That way, someone has to sign for the letter and the sender then gets notification that the letter was received. The certified mail cost me a few bucks but did it ever pay off. I got a reply a week later, not from the CEO himself, but from a woman working just below him. She apologized for what happened to me, and she told me when they investigated that they had found the salesman involved in several other similar wrongdoings and he was subsequently "no longer working for Yellow Book". For my troubles, Yellow Book gave me a free year's worth of advertising in their book. They were probably worried that I was going to sue them, lol. Anyway, sorry to drag on, but sending the letter by certified mail really did the trick.

[rasputin1952]

52. Gotta love that story...

Often, it takes time to get things done, and going to the right people is the way to get it done.

In a brush w/the same type of dealing w/the "higher ups" that really have power...We were having trouble in a class at the college with getting stuff we needed for a new program of study. As an aged student, and an Army vet, I know how bureaucracies work, and how to get stuff done. Anyway, the instructor was in "eval" one day, where we had to write up some stuff on the instructor, course and other stuff. I wrote this short tirade about how we could not accomplish the goals of the course because of materials were not available, (to include updated books, videos and other essentials), and while the instructor was exceptionally knowledgeable and enthusiastic about the subject, we could not be held to the standard set, simply because we didn't have the tools necessary to get our studies done.

After I wrote this, the dean asked questions in class about the class, and I extrapolated upon what I had written, being careful to ensure nothing went back on the instructor, but stayed on course w/the reality that we just didn't have the tools to work through some of this...and (here is the key), that he as dean had incredible power to get things done and make things move w/simple phone calls, but, while understanding he was incredibly busy, it would reflect upon the college and the department, if we went into the workplace w/o the proper training and knowledge of the subject. You could have heard a pin drop 100 yards away...:)


Anyway...things move quickly when power decides to get the fires lit. The same day, we were informed that things would change, and they did...suddenly the AV Dept was fixing problems w/video applications, the proper books were ordered, (we got them two days later, at cost!), and a whole host of other things happened that made it far easier to get a grasp of what was being taught. Things moved very quickly, and we were happy students and the instructor stood there wondering what happened. Another student spoke to him, and told him what i had said, and he marveled at how things moved so quickly after I had explained the situation, and he had done the same, but things hadn't moved. Often, it is not the subject of the problem, but who presents it that counts. Once the dean knew we going to be pretty poor in the workplace because he hadn't addressed problems, things got rolling.

Same thing in politics...Sometimes, they just don't know how bad things really are, or how bad they can get. By pointing things out, especially in a public forum, things can get done w/incredible speed...:)

Edit: ack, some typos make me look like I blew ENG 101..:)

[mtnsnake]

57. That was awesome

Thanks for posting that, about the dean. It really does go to show what a huge difference that the right connections can make, and how all of a sudden things are taken care of in a matter of minutes that might have frustrated you for months previously. Powerful stuff! :thumbsup: :)

[Robin Hood 991]

41. This sums it up

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/22/MNOUU26C5.DTL

[DainBramaged]

43. "I wish she could have been bolder"

sad (Summary from the article)

Biggest failures
-- Despite repeated votes, failed to enact any major changes in Iraq war policy.

-- Tried to expand the state children's health insurance program to cover 4 million more children, but was blocked by President Bush and House Republicans.

-- Sparked a diplomatic fight with Turkey by pushing a resolution condemning the country's mass killing of Armenians during World War I.

-- Abandoned the party's "pay-as-you-go" budget rules to avoid letting the alternative minimum tax hit 20 million Americans.

-- Accepted Bush's spending limits in the end-of-the-year budget fight to avoid shutting down the federal government.

[Historic NY]

51. Of course the Rethugicans are playing up the incompetence...

of Harry & Nancy. They have been played time and time again like a 2 string fiddle. What have they learned, not much the Rethugicans are spouting about all their successes in controlling spending and keeping the Democrats from giving away the store. I ask you who looks like schmucks now? It time to neuter the Rethugican game of obstruction by making it look like they are the schmucks. Even * is making the Democrats out to being spend thrifts.

[mtnsnake]

44. ""I didn't foresee that," Pelosi acknowledged."

She sure didn't. From the sounds of that article, she got schooled by an imbecile in the game of politics.

Thanks for posting that.

[Perry Logan]

53. It's a waste of time attacking your own leaders. They behave the way they do because of the media.

[DainBramaged]

56. They are afraid of the media, that's why they behave as they do.

NO BALLS

[ProSense]

54. See

this.