Gene Lyons exposes Hillary Clinton's character

[Karmadillo]

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/opinion/x1881404921

<edit>

But it's my wife who really has insight into Sen. Clinton's character and personality. They worked together when Hillary served on the governing board of Arkansas Children's Hospital. As administrative liaison to the board, Diane always mentioned two things: How diligently Hillary worked to advance children's health issues, and how nice it was being treated as a colleague and equal by the governor's wife, who never pulled rank.

What really endeared her to Diane, however, was Hillary's empathy during a prolonged medical crisis involving our son. At times, my wife was emotionally strung out, barely functional, a shadow of her professional self. Little grace touches meant a lot.

Hillary never failed to express concern. Her questions made it clear our troubles had been on her mind. How were the new medications working? Were we satisfied with Dr. X? Had we thought about consulting Dr. Y? It was no big thing. She simply acted like a friend at a time when Diane needed every friend she could get.

(And no, I wasn't a political journalist then. This wasn't about me. It was about two mothers.)

As a consequence, Diane will hear nothing against Hillary Clinton. She's traveling to New Hampshire at her own expense to knock on doors for her. She doesn't recognize the calculating shrew portrayed in the national press. Me, I don't participate in politics at any level. But I wouldn't stop her if I could.

more...

[emilyg]

1. Thanks.

[The Magistrate]

2. That Is One Hell Of An Expose, Sir....

Best wishes to you and yours for the Holidays, my friend!

[Karmadillo]

58. Lyons always does a good job of making his point.

And best wishes to you and yours, my friend.

[BenDavid]

3. Gene knows arkansas politics and great article about HRC and

if people have not read Gene Lyons book, Fools for Scandal: How the Media Invented Whitewater and The Hunting of the President: The Ten-Year Campaign to Destroy Bill and Hillary Clinton coauthored with Joe Conason both are great and factual reads.

[jgraz]

4. That kid should thank god he wasn't in Iraq

Hillary's got a bit less empathy for the children over there.

Hillary votes to continue cluster-bombing civilians

[Harper_is_Bush]

6. Why does your post feel like a right wing swiftboat ad? n/t

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Harper_is_Bush]

8. You reveal yourself as a swiftboat-type person. n/t

[jgraz]

9. Pray-tell -- what, in your estimation, is a "swiftboat-type person"?

Someone who's not nice to you? Someone who tells uncomfortable truths?

My understanding of the original swift-boaters is that their entire attack was based on lies. If I'm telling lies about Hillary, please show me where. Otherwise, you reveal yourself as a Dana Perino-type person.

[Harper_is_Bush]

11. a person willing to abandon the truth

[jgraz]

13. I guess we'll take this one step at a time. How, exactly, have I abandoned the truth?

Did Hillary NOT vote "to let our military continue to use cluster bombs in areas with concentrated civilian populations, despite the thousands of innocent children who have died or been handicapped due to picking up unexploded cluster bomblets"?

Has she done ANYTHING to stop the killing of civilians in Iraq?

Have you offered any indication that you are not uninformed, especially where the above issues are concerned?


I posted factual information about your candidate, and you accuse me of abandoning the truth. How is THAT not swift-boating, according to your somewhat feeble definition?

[jgraz]

54. *cricket noise* *cricket noise* *cricket noise*

[creeksneakers2]

20. I don't think we've used cluster bombs in Iraq since 2003

Use stopped, or was almost completely stopped after the initial invasion. The amendment you refer to got 70 nay votes. Probably because Israel used cluster bombs in Lebanon. Israel purchased the bombs from the US and we'd no longer sell them to Israel if the amendment passed.
Hillary is a strong backer of Israel.

You can complain about what Hillary did and I'd join you. However, as is so often the case, your posts are sloppy with facts.

[jgraz]

69. In what way did your additional info change the basic point of the article?

So she just wants to allow Israel to blow up Lebanese children. That's much better :eyes:

And, of course, her vote clears the way for the US cluster-bombing of Iran should the BFEE ever decide to act on the Hillary-approved Kyl/Lieberman amendment.

[indimuse]

40. Obama:went on to argue that military strikes on Pakistan should not be ruled out

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) told "the Chicago Tribune on September 26, 2004, 'he big question is going to be, if Iran is resistant to these pressures
nuclear program], including economic sanctions, which I hope will be imposed if they do not cooperate, at what point ... if any, are we going to take military action?'

"He added, 'aunching some missile strikes into Iran is not the optimal position for us to be in' given the ongoing war in Iraq. 'On the other hand, having a radical

Muslim theocracy in possession of nuclear weapons is worse.' Obama went on to argue that military strikes on Pakistan should not be ruled out if 'violent Islamic

extremists' were to 'take over'," Joshua Frank wrote January 22, 2005, for Antiwar.com.<1>

[jgraz]

48. Cool. I'm not voting for him either.

Now how does his failure justify Hillary's obscene vote in this case?

[babylonsister]

56. Link please. nt

[cali]

43. *snicker*

you are in such a fragile little glass house. I'm not gonna do it, but considering who you're supporting, I could point out a couple of things. Look, why not just stay out of a positive Clinton thread? I try and keep my criticisms out of positive candidate threads. Go extoll the virtues of your born agin' progressive candidate.

[jgraz]

49. The OP used a stealth title

If someone makes an effort to rope in all viewpoints, they should be ready for comments from anyone.

[mtnsnake]

60. Why on earth would you go out of your way to hijack a thread like this one?

You just epitomized what's wrong about so many of the Hillary naysayers who don't think twice about ruining someone's nice thread just out of sheer bitterness and hatred.

[jgraz]

65. There's that noise again. Whatever can it be?

[aquart]

76. It's the disproportionate hatred that's most revealing.

But I guess we're supposed to pretend we don't see.

[Cha]

73. Precisely...

Lyon's wife can vote for her and keep her hands over her ears on hillary's character but that's just selfish.

[Harper_is_Bush]

5. THIS CAN'T BE TRUE!! HILL IS EEEEEVIL, NO? N/T

[Beacool]

10. Don't even bother to respond.

In this board praise for Hillary is quickly dismissed as nonsense and receives few responses. On the other hand, any post that trashes her is eagerly filled with people agreeing and further expanding on her perceived failings.

I wonder why this board claims to be Democrat but doesn't treat all Democrats with the same measuring stick.

[Yuugal]

12. thats an easy one

"I wonder why this board claims to be Democrat but doesn't treat all Democrats with the same measuring stick."

The answer to your question is that alot of democrats know the difference between being bought and paid for by corporate interests and being for the people. Hillary's huge pile of dirty money is going to hurt those in the working class alot more than the upper middle class dems she courts.

[DURHAM D]

14. Did you read the article - esp. the last paragraph? n/t

[jgraz]

16. I read the article. I found it completely worthless

There was one anecdote that purports to show that Hillary is not a heartless robot 100% of the time. I'll grant you that.

The rest of it is unsupported conjecture built on logical fallacies. Why is it that the only defense we hear from Hillary's supporters is that either a) she's not as bad as Bush or b) Obama's just as bad?

I have news for you. In many ways, she IS just as bad as Bush. She's better in some ways (e.g. she can properly pronounce "nuclear"), but it's not nearly enough. And, yeah, Obama is just as bad as she is in many ways, which is why I'm not supporting him either.

Luckily, there are a few candidates out there who are far more deserving of our support than the two alleged "frontrunners".

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jgraz]

50. Hey, when did this thread become all about you?

:P

[Yuugal]

27. Nah. But you made me.

And as usual I'm sorry I fell for another pro-Hillary shtick piece that plays the race as if its just Hillary vs Obama. Of course the media is going to frame the race that way because they badly want a race between the Woman/Black corporatist and any sold out republican vampire. This way no matter who wins the corporations win.

"As a consequence, Diane will hear nothing against Hillary Clinton. She's traveling to New Hampshire at her own expense to knock on doors for her. She doesn't recognize the calculating shrew portrayed in the national press. Me, I don't participate in politics at any level. But I wouldn't stop her if I could."

This was the line from the op I was mostly replying to. The last paragraph from the article:

"Yet their voting records are extremely similar. Obama also claims he's beyond partisanship. "I'm not an ideologue, never have been," he told ABC's "This Week." "Even during my younger days when I was tempted by ... more radical or left-wing politics, there was a part of me that always was a little bit conservative in that sense; that believes that you make progress by sitting down and listening to people, recognizing everybody's concerns, seeing other people's points of view and then making decisions."

Nice of Obama to want to sit down with the people robbing my kid's future. I'm sure my family wont be there at the table whenever anything is debated but Cigna, Mobil, GE and Haliburton will have a chair. Great. "recognizing everybody's concerns" Yeah, thats rich, literally. When I run that phrase though my Newspeak translator it comes back: "gratuitous corporate boot licking".

As for Hillary, the last line of the article sums it all up nicely.

"Hence my question: Exactly what's the difference between wicked triangulation and praiseworthy bipartisan compromise?"

There is no difference when all parties involved have the interests of corporations above the interests of the working people. Look at the last year. We have both houses and still nothing gets done for us while its blank check after blank check for every corporate pipe dream. Hillary is going to wickedly triangulate and try to pass it off as bi-partisan compromise. Obama is going for bi-partisan cooperation and whether it gets labeled triangulation or not, the lot of the working class is going to get worse.

Sorry to be crude but the reason I can't hear Hillary's or Obama's message very clearly is because they both have their mouths filled with corporate nutsack. Obama seemed to try to spit them out the other day with some populist words but has lapsed back into that "invite all parties to the table" crap. I'm not falling for that line anymore.

Its Edwards or bust for me unless Biden pulls a rabbit out of his butt.

[jgraz]

15. Another interpretation is that we DO use the same measuring stick on all Democrats

And Hillary fails -- pathetically -- to measure up.

[Beacool]

24. That is the opinion of some left wingers in the party.

Luckily, the country votes to the center and doesn't like the extremes of either party.

Besides, she doesn't measure up according to who? College kids and left over 60s liberals?

[jgraz]

No, that is the opinion of most non-right-wingers in the party

Your broadbrush attacks don't serve you well. On the contrary, they play into the stereotype of Hillary supporters as uninformed jingoistic party hacks.

Your "centrist" trope is similarly ignorant. Recent polls show the country well ahead of ALL candidates on issues like the war, healthcare, economic justice and impeachment. If you're looking for the center, it's somewhere over to your left.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jgraz]

51. Don't worry, we know.

It's not like they're trying to hide it.

[rAVES]

17. I've been wondering about the demographics of Hillary supporters myself..

I imagine its overwhelmingly upper middle class folks who don't really care about anything past their nice green garden and lovely white, trice yearly painted picket fences.

I mean theres no other explaination for the lack of care about her so called universal health care...

[jgraz]

19. Someone posted a poll a few weeks back showing that Hillarites are the least informed Democrats

I can't find it now, but that certainly resonated with me. Anybody still got a link to that?

[aquart]

34. "Hillarites"? Still trying to gook the opposition?

So how does dehumanizing your opponents work for you? Treating other people's viewpoints with utter disrespect and contempt?

[jgraz]

47. Hey, did you hear something?

(Oh, and good job working in the racial epithet. Do you enjoy using those in polite company?)

[aquart]

75. You're too sensitive for "gooking"?

Don't like descriptions of what you're doing? "To gook" verb meaning to demean an enemy by using demeaning and objectifying language. Which makes them easier to kill because the mind decides they're not human.

It's an important word for teaching propaganda.

But, of course, you are above such ugly practices. Would you prefer "Hillarying"? It's a synonym for "gooking."

[avrdream]

21. Maybe we actually READ her plan!

If you care one bit about getting real change in health care coverage in the U.S., you would pay attention to the details in her plan. She has coverage for EVERYONE, whether they can afford it or not. Please spend the time to check out the details before hammering her about health care. She is the one candidate who I believe will actually really DO something about health care, instead of just preaching about it.

You can hammer her on other issues but this one won't stick.

Here is some good stuff about her health care universal coverage history, if you are interested in reading it. I have others as well.

http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Health_Care.htm

[avrdream]

23. Here you go, here's another reference, comparing Clinton and Obama.

http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Health_Care.htm

[Beacool]

25. You're wrong!!

Hillary attracts a majority of working class people and those in unions, while Obama's main supporters are the upper middle class people that you mention.

[aquart]

33. My, aren't you an insulting little thing.

And so endlessly smug about it, too.

[jgraz]

52. Looks like aquart's got the Rove playbook out again

Insult people in one post, whine about being insulted in another. Unca Karl would be proud.

[aquart]

77. What are you proud of?

Hopefully, nothing you've written here.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

63. No need to wonder. It is the poor and less educated.

[DURHAM D]

68. I am neither poor or uneducated.

I am also a lesbian, a senior citizen and have been involved in the political process for 50 years - including the gay rights movement for more than 35 years. Your blanket insult to Hillary supporters should be taken down as a personal attack on an entire group/class of people.

Your use of the HRC logo is deeply offensive to me. Please remove it as you don't represent the ideas of the organization - in fact, just the opposite.

[aquart]

29. It doesn't claim to be Democrat. It claims to be Democratic.

[rAVES]

46. Nobody said Evil.. Sold out Fraud is more like it.

[TacticalPeek]

18. Thanks - Lyons is a good journalist.

K & R

:kick:

[creeksneakers2]

22. Another great piece from Lyons

Lyons has exposed more lies about the Clintons than any other journalist. His books are great.

[candymarl]

26. I can speak from personal experience

Hillary Clinton helped little old nobody me when she was first lady. I was stunned. I thought she and her staff would blow me off. She and they didn't. She's not perfect but she's not a cold calculating person. That is the RW smear machine portrayal of her. I haven't made up my mind whom I'm voting for yet. But the idea that Hillary doesn't care doesn't add up with me.

[aquart]

30. How anyone could look at Chelsea and think her mother was cold...

The reality is so removed from the nightmare they cling to. But, of course, none of it has anything to do with an uppity woman running for president.

[jgraz]

53. And thanks for playing...Grasping at Straws

Gotta hand it to you, you never fail to innovate in the area of silly responses. :rofl:

Now maybe you could try dealing with a post rationally instead of pretending that anyone who disagrees with you is a racist or a misogynist.

Oh wait...I forgot who I was talking to. Never mind.

[aquart]

74. I call 'em as I see 'em.

I learned on my last day of high school that absolute power corrupts absolutely and the purist of intentions can lead to the dirtiest of deeds. So I never make the mistake of believing my side is all good and the other side all evil. I found out different before I was 18.

Now when I see sexism, racism, or anti-semitism befouling this site, I say so. But you are free to continue believing in your sanctity.

[MonkeyFunk]

28. Thanks

that's a nice story. Too bad even the most innocuous posts saying something nice about a candidate is greeted with such rabid hatred by people who don't have a gracious bone in their body.

[candymarl]

31. You're welcome

Her staff even sent a follow-up letter to my sister's house. I'd used her mailing address because I was in a VA hospital. It was waiting for me when I went to visit her. When I walked through the door, my sister's first words were "What have you been up to now? There's a letter for you from the White House."

[aquart]

35. Which means she had an effective staff.

I'd like to see competent, caring management of our government. Be a nice change.

[candymarl]

37. I beg to differ

I actually talked to Hillary's chief of staff on more than one occasion. What's more caring than not just saying, "That's nice. Sorry about your problem. See ya later.." but actually doing something about it? Is that not the essence of compassion? Isn't that what we all want? I'm talking about deeds not words. Efficiency doesn't mean uncaring. Good at your job doesn't mean uncaring. These things are not mutually exclusive.

[eridani]

36. And if Diane hadn't had health insurance, kind words would have been useless

Sometimes thes smug affluent types who have never been really threatened financially by serious illness really piss me off.

[candymarl]

38. Maybe

this is why when Hillary went to DC she tried to get a health care bill passed. She got her head handed to her. But at least she tried.

[eridani]

39. And she learned the wrong lesson from it

Now the insurance companies have bought her off.

[candymarl]

42. Really?

What lesson should she have learned? Do you know know what lesson she's learned? Have you asked her? But remember FDR. When he was elected the rich and elite were delighted. They surmised, as one of them, he would protect their interests. As someone they helped to elect things would go their way. Not quite how it turned out. Otherwise, they would not have plotted to overthrow him. I'm not a Hillary supporter. I truly have not made up my mind. But to assume (see the Odd Couple) may be a mistake. I'm just speaking from personal experience.

[JTFrog]

44. What lessons has she learned? Obviously that is a problem. Even when it comes to war.

If the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or has said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to choose from,” Mrs. Clinton told an audience in Dover, N.H., in a veiled reference to two rivals for the nomination, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina.

Thank you, I will choose from one of the others.

Michael Moore: Hillary, you know, she’s now—or at least last year, in last year’s congress—was the second-largest recipient of health industry money, next to Rick Santorum. He’s gone now. So she may be number one at this point, for all I know. It’s very sad to see that she’s very much—they’re into her pocket, and she’s into their pocket. And I don’t expect much from her.

I wouldn't expect much from her either.

[eridani]

67. That if you include insurance companies in the process they will shitcan the whole plan

--no matter how much you bend over backwards to include them, which she did in 1994.

In the 30s, we did not have a military industrial complex either. What do you suppose that defense industries expect to get back from the money they are investing in her?

[BootinUp]

41. Thanks. nt

[Captain Hilts]

55. Some doctors in NIH's children's ward told me the same thing. nt

[KittyWampus]

57. Who cares about whether Diane will hear nothing against Hillary? Sounds like a typical supporter.

stick fingers in ears and chant lalalala CAN'T HEAR YOU.

And how pathetic is Hillary and her campaign that she has to now trot out her girlfriends, daughter and mother because women are turning away?

Frankly this just reinforces Hillary's calculating side.

[DURHAM D]

59. This thread is amazing.

I am not an Edwards supporter but yesterday one of his supporters started a positive thread about him. I read through the entire thing. Not one poster had made a negative comment or argument back. I was surprised and pleased.

I realized I had never seen the shit heads and mentally unbalanced here at the DU allow a positive thread about Hillary to go more than a couple of responses without them showing up to demonstrate their personality and social disorders.

All I can think is "Who are these people and what are they doing in this political party?"

[mtnsnake]

61. Thank you for posting this!

My sentiments exactly, only you said it much better than I could have. :thumbsup:

All I can thing is "Who are these people and what are they doing in this political party?"

They're either not in this party, or if they are, they're losers.

[jgraz]

70. Funny how you always complain about being insulted by insulting people

Are all your posts this hypocritical, or just the ones supporting Hillary?

[jgraz]

66. Once again, read the thread title.

if the OP didn't want to rope in anti-Hillary folk, he would not have used a stealth title like he did. As it is, he left the door open for negative responses.

ETA: Note that the OP skedaddled after the first couple of posts. Typical troll behavior. I have no problem commenting in a thread like this.

OH, and if you don't want a debate, please stick to the Hillary forum.

[Karmadillo]

72. Troll? Yes, I think you've nailed the OP. I hope you keep posting on this thread.

You are a fount of wit and wisdom. You should be paid for posting here. Those Hillary people simply have no one to stand up to your power. Keep 'em coming. Peace.

[paulk]

62. hey - a positive HRC article from a respected journalist!

You can tell how good it is from the number of negative responses. Wouldn't want anyone saying anything nice about Hillary!

[DeepModem Mom]

64. K&R, and thank you.

I'm an Obama supporter, but I like all of the candidates, and I abhor the treatment Hillary is receiving yet again in the public arena. Lyons's statement about the "cool kids at Beltway High" is, sadly, right on. I heard Chris Matthews talk about Hillary on "Morning Joe," and the force of the hatred I could hear in his voice was frightening. This is a strong, competent, gifted woman -- and, for heaven's sake, a mother, a daughter, a human being.

[SOS]

71. self delete

[oasis]

78. Wonderful and warm Hillary stories on this thread. "The Hillary We Know".

:toast: