Racial Undercurrent Is Seen in Clinton Campaign

[snowbear]

.
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Washington Post
By Chris Cillizza And Shailagh Murray

PLAYERS and PLAYERS
Sunday, December 23, 2007; Page A02

It has unfolded mostly under the radar. But an important development in the 2008 Democratic battle may be the building backlash among African Americans over comments from associates of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton that could be construed as jabs at Sen. Barack Obama's race.

These officials, including Clinton aides and prominent surrogates, have raised questions or dropped references about Obama's position on sentencing guidelines for crack vs. powder cocaine offenses; on his handgun control record; and on his admitted use of drugs as a youth. The context was always Obama's "electability." But the Illinois senator's campaign advisers said some African American leaders detect a pattern, and they believe it could erode Clinton's strong base of black support.

Here's a sample of how the issue is playing out:

From the "Tom Joyner Morning Show," Dec. 14:

Tom Joyner: "Yeah, man, they are coming after you now. So the story about the Clinton campaign putting out this statement not to vote for Barack Obama because he used drugs, and then yesterday I understand that she apologized and the campaign worker quit."

Obama: "Well, I think everybody knows, because I wrote about it in a book 10 years ago. . . . and part of the reason I wrote about it and I talk about it in schools is because I want young people out there to know that if they make the same kinds of mistakes that I made that they can get over it and that they can move on. . . ."

Continued > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/22/AR2007122201762.html

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[Lucinda]

1. That's absolute nonsense.

[Herman Munster]

2. there he goes again

playing the race card.

[EFerrari]

7. No, it's not nonsense. And one staffer is already gone

because of this racist bullshit.

I'm not for Clinton OR Obama but that was disgusting.

[Lucinda]

9. There is nothing racist about it. He did drugs. That's the electability issue.

Oddly enough, some people may find that to be a problem. And it would be a problem for them regardless of which candidate did it.

[EFerrari]

11. No., You can't use the stereotype of a black drug dealer on

a white candidate.

You know, when you listen to flat out white sheet racists, that's exactly how they sound. They fly just right under the radar. They can justify just about anything they say, just like you just did.

The Clintons need to get off this road. Because it will kill her campaign and tar Bill's legacy.

[Lucinda]

15. I'm not the one spinning, and trying to cover Obama's problem by blaming someone else

[EFerrari]

17. No, you're the one willfully ignoring the racist crap out of the Clinton campaign

which has already resulted in a change of personnel.

Obama's problem? He innoculated himself. This is now Clinton's problem. She now looks ugly and mean where she could have taken the high road.

[Cha]

80. hillary? The High Road?

Since when? Never..that's why I'm against her.

I wanted her to take the high road, too, back in October, 2002, but, hillary wanted the easiest road to the whitehouse, or so she and her multi adivisers thought..and it's been the low road ever since.

[Lurking Dem]

70. A teenager experiments with drugs,

realizes the error of his ways and the path it might lead him down, and goes on to be the first black editor of Harvard Law Review.

This gets spun into "questions" about smoking crack, stealing to get drugs, and dealing.

Bill Clinton "didn't inhale", Bush drank into his 40's and had rumors during his campaign of cocaine use.

Yet neither of them were "questioned" by other campaigns about dealing, stealing, or smoking crack.

And you think this has nothing to do with race?

Maybe YOU are smoking crack?

[Cha]

81. Excellent analysis

of the whole racial smear shit from hillary's campaign.

[Diane R]

91. Excellent.

[EFerrari]

123. . . .

:toast:

[Bitwit1234]

30. THE ONLY RACIST BULLSHIT IS FROM OBAMA TRYING TO BASH HILLARY

This man and his campaign is getting absolutely dispicable. He knows the only reason he has gotten a pass from the MSM is because they are afraid to say anything even remotely about race, and since that is playing out like he wants he is going to bring race into it himself. How damn low can he go...pretty far down I say. AND if he does start it, he is going to make the biggest mistake he has ever made.

[sniffa]

65. have you thought about starting a blog?

your insights are brilliant. i wish more people could understand that Obama is racist.

[Lurking Dem]

71. LOL.

[Quixote1818]

73. ROTFL!!!

That was good! Thank you! :rofl:

[Cha]

83. There you go

again. :)

[EFerrari]

75. What would happen if we had a national discussion about race?

Would we explode?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BluegrassDem]

3. It's about time for black people to stand up to this!

I'm glad Tom Joyner is talking about it. We need him to get the word out on black radio so black people can mobilize against Hillary. Most black people would be abhorred by Clinton's behavior. She doesn't deserve black votes cause of the way she's ran her racist campaign against Obama. If Republicans acted the same, we'd call them racist. And we shouldn't allow this double standard cause Hillary is a supposed Democrat.

[Beacool]

5. Are you for real???????

The guy writes in a book that he drank, smoked pot and snorted coke, he repeats the same thing recently to some high school students and it's Clinton who is using it as a racial card???

What the hell are you talking about???? There are plenty of white people who also consume drugs. Talk about overreaching!!! You do dishonor to the black community by implying that Hillary, or Bill for that matter, are racists and expect them to believe that crap!!! I think people are smart enough to know the truth.

[BluegrassDem]

13. The Clintons threw around "dealing drugs"

That's when it went across the line. They were implying that he was a drug dealer, even though there is absolutely NO evidence of such. Of course, they're feeding into the stereotype of young black men being thugs and drug dealers. So yes, she was the one playing the race card, not Obama. For that reason, I would never vote for Hillary come hell or high water. I'll stay at home in November before I'd vote for her.

[EFerrari]

16. It was way the fuck over the line and to deny that is ridiculous.

She needs to straighten up and fly right because this kind of cr@p is unacceptable.

[silverojo]

23. Clinton always goes way over the line

It's not racism, just dirty politics. If Edwards begins posing a serious threat, she'll go after him, too.

[MonkeyFunk]

25. And Obama or Edwards would never DARE

to go after an opponent, would they?

God, I swear, this is the first campaign most of you have ever witnessed.

[EFerrari]

27. The resort to racism is dirty politics. And I agree that a similar tactic

will be used on John.

[alteredstate]

38. Right now, her main target is Obama.

I hope Iowans react to her ugly behavior by voting for someone else.

[Cha]

85. Right, and they don't like

being called on it, either.

[Lurking Dem]

100. Their Borg is the narrative.

Do not disrupt the narrative!

[Cha]

113. I'll interrupt their

narrative and call them out on it and be happy there's so many other citizens not goin' along with the status quo where the clintons want to insert their "inevitability".

[Beacool]

20. Good, that makes us even since I won't vote for Obama!!!!!

[juajen]

47. I have heard the Clinton campaign accused before of

saying that Obama dealt drugs. Can I PLEASE have a link where anyone in her campaign suggested that Obama sold drugs? I would really like to know where this came from.

[babylonsister]

82. Here's one:

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2007/12/6535_clinton_support_1.html

[Cha]

87. So there ya have

your link.

[Diane R]

94. deleted

[Evergreen Emerald]

39. Exactly. The media is sure giving Obama a leg-up

His ADMITTED coke use is off limits and any mention of it is racist? Bull shit.

[EFerrari]

76. No. Any mention of it isn't racist. The particular context that that idiot

brought it up in was racist.

There is a way to talk about this stuff without bigotry. They had a choice and they chose wrong.

[CTLawGuy]

116. no

but insinuating that he might have been a drug dealer, with no evidence of this, could potentially be playng on racial stereotypes. At the very least it's a vicious smear.

[Cha]

84. Oh, so brilliant that Tom Joyner

is bringing this up..not a good thing for hillary and her advisers to be doing..and, I'm sure it's not because "she's desperate".

[MonkeyFunk]

4. Well

"the story about the Clinton campaign putting out this statement not to vote for Barack Obama because he used drugs, and then yesterday I understand that she apologized and the campaign worker quit."

When did the Clinton campaign put out a statement not to vote for Obama because he used drugs?

[EFerrari]

6. You might remember that Shaheen person who resigned from the campaign

for raising the question, did Obama deal drugs.

That statement.

[MonkeyFunk]

8. Yes

somebody who worked for the campaign made a statement mentioning cocaine.

That's not to say the campaign put out a statement, NOR did Shaheen say not to vote for Obama because he used drugs.

That's just a ridiculous lie.

Edit: When a campaign "puts out a statement", it's written down. It's sent to media. It's posted on the website. You can't claim that every utterance by every person working for a candidate is the equivalent of "putting out a statement"

[EFerrari]

10. Fine. It's a ridiculous lie. That must be why Shaheen had to step down. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

12. No

what's a ridiculous lie is that the campaign put out a statement. The other ridiculous lie is that the statement was "don't vote for Obama because he used drugs".

[EFerrari]

14. That's right. Shaheen didn't speak for the campaign while

he was speaking for the campaign.

[MonkeyFunk]

19. Instead of one-line snark

how about answering directly?

Did the campaign put out a statement saying "Don't vote for Obama because he used drugs?"

Can you link me to that statement on the campaign's website? Or do you have a copy on campaign letterhead you can scan and post?

[EFerrari]

21. I generally try not to engage brick walls.

You know very well what went down. Trying to obfuscate it is neither helpful nor is it convincing.

[MonkeyFunk]

24. Yes

I know exactly what went down.

The Clinton campaign did not issue a statement.

Shaheen did not say "don't vote for Obama because he used drugs."

You can't refute either of those things, can you?

[EFerrari]

26. If the Clinton campaign can't control their own staff

how the hell is she going to manage the presidency?

The Clinton campaign most certainly did issue a statement WHEN THEIR OWN STAFFER seeded that ugly idea into the press.

You can parse all night and into next Sunday. It happened, it was as ugly as possible, the guy is gone and the bad taste lingers. She now has to deal with it.

[MonkeyFunk]

28. Sorry

then you have no idea what "issuing a statement" means.

You'll notice I've not once defended Shaheen or what he said. I merely said the campaign did not issue a statement, and Shaheen did not say "don't vote for Obama because he used drugs."


Anything else you're arguing against is a fiction of your own mind. My argument has been comfined to those two facts, which you can't legitimately refute.

[Madam Mossfern]

43. Who knows, we need to be concerned about the Republicans

going after Hillary because she may have beat babies. She is not a good candidate because of this, she needs to drop out of the race for the sake of the party.

[EFerrari]

74. I sure can. HRC is responsible for her people.

It's that simple.

[hedgehog]

33. No, he whispered into someone's ear, " I 'm just very concerned that

if Obama gets the nomination, what if the Republicans start asking if he sold drugs or ever busted a cap on another dealer". The problem is that instead of passing on the whispering like they were supposed to, the people Shaheen was whispering to responded by saying " "What was that? Speak up there if you've got something to say!"


A whispering campaign should never be confused with a campaign statement!

[CTLawGuy]

119. in campaigns (esp. presidential campaigns)

NO ONE talks to the press without permission and without control over what they say.

[sniffa]

53. is it more parsing?

:shrug:

[The Magistrate]

79. No, Mr. Sniffa, It Is Sticking To An established Point

People who engage in debate do it often, as it is a pretty effective technique.

It is a fact that Sen. Clinton's campaign has made no official attempt to raise this issue. One prominent official of that campaign has raised it, but that is not the same thing. The official who did so was fired from his position with the campaign, which is about as far as anyone can expect the campaign to go by way of repudiation.

The issue lingers for two reasons. First, both Sen. Obama's campaign and various members of the press insisted on raising over several further days because they felt the charge served their own purposes, and were quite happy to talk the thing up. Second, because it is certainly true that, should Sen. Obama win the Democratic Party's nomination for President, the Republican attack apparat will bring this up, and a base and distorted way, and everyone with the least knowledge of political life today knows this is true.

[EFerrari]

96. That is true, your Honor. And it must be difficult to fight well

in the primaries while thinking ahead to the general election and its possible outcomes.

But, unofficial statements have their uses, and the most valuable one is plausible deniability.

The Republicans don't need actual facts to smear anyone so, it is disconcerting to see the Clinton campaign writing their talking points for them. That may just be a consequence of the primary process and, an unfortunate one.

[The Magistrate]

103. Indeed, Ma'am

It could have all been pre-arranged, on the familiar 'Remember, if you are caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions' basis. But there is no proof it was, and the firing can be counted a blow against Sen. Clinton's campaign in New Hampshire; it is sort of like firing a Daley or a Madigan would be in Illinois to fire a Shaheen there.

In my view, anyone who 'goes negative' in a Democratic primary loses points and standing.

It is certainly true that whoever we run will be attacked savagely and basely, by people experienced in the dark arts of it....

[EFerrari]

106. They will be pilloried in a far more energetic manner

than was leveled against Bill Clinton and that was horrible.

They've had years to capture the media, to practice their dirty tricks and to condition the public to accept hate speech.

Whoever the party choses, I hope they are prepared for the coming onslaught. It will be ugly, very ugly.

[Cha]

88. billy shaheen was just a

big mouth sent out on his own who had nothing to do with the hillary campaign. Rinse, repeat.

billy shaheen was hillary's NH campaign co-chair.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/13/bill-shaheen-resigns-as-h_n_76715.html

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[creeksneakers2]

18. Worst trash I've seen in weeks. Maybe longer

The theme of the article is about black leaders detecting racism from the Clintons but only two of the quotes have anything to do with race, one from some publication in New York I've never heard of and the other is from a single columnist at the Boston Globe.

Obama isn't saying racism. The article is just selected quotes that follow each other but aren't necessarily linked to each other.

If a black candidate runs at all there will inevitably be some people who will say the candidate is being treated unfairly because of his race. There's nothing to back up the claim here except for a statement by a Clinton campaign staffer that resulted in his termination.

If the Post had the desire, they could find comments from Obama people that could be twisted to look sexist. If one read all the columns in the US one could probably find a couple that said Hillary is the victim of Obama sexism. What does that prove?

[incapsulated]

22. Playing the race card?

I don't see it.

Yes, I'm black so back off.

[Adelante]

44. I'm white, as you well know

And here breaking my rule not to argue with my friends this primary season. You also know I am not terribly PC or prone to jumping at any of these cards. And you know I am not a Clinton-basher. (I'm saying all this for the rest of these people.)

But I seriously disagree that the race card hasn't been played again and again in Clinton's campaign. At first I was reluctant. In fact, I actively resisted my own judgment, because I know neither Clinton is racist, so how could it be? But in time the pattern became too clear for even me to ignore. First it was the meme repeated by surrogates in the South that a black man couldn't be elected president in America, that Barack's not black enough, he's hardly even an American, anyway, Bill Clinton's blacker, and even that black folks have to protect this boy from himself, because he just doesn't know what he's doing, and we all know they will lynch him! The Muslim Manchurian Candidate emails sent in Iowa by county volunteer coordinators. The first one, well, these things happen, you can't control everything somebody is doing in the field, okay. The second one, well, maybe something is wrong here. Two staffers receive them and don't raise an alarm of any kind. County coordinators are not high on the food chain, sure, and again a candidate can't be held responsible for every asshole in an enormous organization like a presidential campaign. But when you get a state co-chairman in New Hampshire stretching Obama's youthful drug use, about which Obama had been straight out front, into possible drug dealing, and you know that leap would never have been made about, say, John Edwards or Hillary Clinton, and wasn't in fact made about Bill Clinton in the day, or even George Bush -- It doesn't matter to me one bit that it was posed as a question or as one the RNC would make sure is asked. That's how the politics of personal destruction is played. In order to question Obama's electability, the card played was the race card. This was done by a tough guy of Democratic politics and a high official of the campaign, somebody who goes out and does what he knows is wanted, somebody who delivers.

I say, if, earlier on, had the Clinton campaign addressed the racial meme-spreading going on in the South; had they sent word down the chain, "Look, we appreciate all you are trying to do for us, but that is going to backfire on Hillary. We'd rather you spoke positively of her accomplishments for African Americans and all Americans and criticize Obama's, as you want to, but without racial references that can open Hillary to criticism." Something like that. It would have been understood by black political leaders and accepted as what the Clinton campaign expects in its surrogates. It would have made a big difference in how I've come to view the situation today had the earlier race baiting through the black community, the black on black racism, been met with outright disapproval. Instead it was let slide along until the white folks stepped over the line. Then it became a problem and had to be repudiated.

All of that said, I appreciated when Hillary acted swiftly asking the county coordinators in Iowa to step down and when Shaheen either fell or was pushed on his sword. It seems of late the message has been heard that the Clinton campaign will not condone race messaging on her behalf. Well and good. I'm glad. But if the AA community is beginning to see there was something very wrong going on before now in this campaign's relation to black American voters, I am also glad.

[sniffa]

54. good analysis

:thumbsup:

[incapsulated]

72. Well, Jersey...

I admit I haven't been following the minutia of this campaign.

But the "evidence" submitted by this article just doesn't add up, to me.

Using admitted heavy drug use? Come on, this was going to be used. The Muslim thing, was that about race or evil opportunity? I just think they are scared.

Now, if you start cherry picking any other criticism to weave some sort of pattern, you can do that with anything. Oh, handguns and coke. Well, among dozens and dozens of other things that don't create some pattern.

I can't speak to what has been going on in the field but I don't know if it's a conscious racial thing. She *really* can't afford to alienate that BASE she has and I don't think they are that stupid.

I think they just decided to take off the gloves with Obama, he has been very aggressively on the attack and it's working for him, to be honest. People in Hillary's camp are going to use *anything* they perceive as a problem for him.

Honestly, the only blatant use of race (and sex) to me, has come from John "just imagine Hillary or Obama, vote for me" Edwards.

[Cha]

90. It's pervasive and contagious.

The hillaries didn't stop it in time. Thanks for your report on this, WesDem.

[Diane R]

97. I wish I could recommend a reply. Well said.

[Missy M]

31. What a bunch of nonsense.

Hillary Clinton is not playing the race card and never would.

[Cha]

92. Well, she'd better

get some new adisers, then.

[Double T]

32. I'm NO SUPPORTER of HRC, but this is nothing more than a bunch of MSM..........

swift boating BS!

[BeyondGeography]

34. During the infamous Charlies Rose interview, Bill Clinton called Obama "a mere symbol for change"

now you can take that a couple of ways, and one of those is he's calling Obama a token. What comes through at the very least is an incredible arrogance and disdain. I'm sure more than a few black people noticed.

The Clintons aren't racist, but they'll do anything they can to defeat an adversary. If that means playing on racial stereotypes such as exaggerated black drug use and criminality, as Derrick Jackson put it, their campaign has already proven they will go there. Bill probably thinks that no matter how dirty it gets he'll just "aw shucks" the problem away when they win in the end and chalk it up to the rough-and-tumble of the game. A far better outcome would be if his apology came in the form of enthusiastic campaigning for the "mere symbol" who denied him his return trip to the White House.

[Onlooker]

35. Good points, but it's not Hillary

I think the kind of comments being made are part of the white racism that exists in society today. It's as prevalent as sexism. I think Hillary is really doing the right thing when she fires these campaign people. For instance, when she dismissed Bill Sheehan, husband of NH's former governor, for his comments, that was a bigger deal then the press made it out to be. People with those kinds of connections are not often forced to leave campaigns, especially in a state like NH.

[Didereaux]

36. Name the 'Black Leaders' who are concerned...NAME the originator of this story...bet you find

...that it has REPUGNANT roots, and very probably a Rove prodigy at that. This is PROFESSIONAL level mud. Find the name or source who put the bug in the WaPos reporters ear.

[MethuenProgressive]

37. This thread is a fine example of why I find DU's HillHateCult disgusting.

:thumbsdown:

[Karmadillo]

40. The corporate media is still working hard for the Candidate of Change. Interesting.

nt

[Tom Rinaldo]

41. FLASH!: "Racial Undercurrent Is Seen in America"

Blame it on the Clintons. Why not? Everything else is. Republicans have been doing it for a decade, many Democrats were just a little bit slow to fall in behind them.

[EFerrari]

78. The Clintons have never been slow to tap into what works for Republicans.

Bill Clinton was the best Republican president we've had in the last 30 years. And that's why the freepers hate him -- because he's claiming their turf and, he does it beautifully.

But this last thing is just not okay. I sincerely hope the campaign corrects itself.

[Tom Rinaldo]

102. An interesting and complex theme for discussion

But not really what the Sunday Washington Post story line on a racial undertone to the Clinton campaign confronts. One of the core reasons why Barack Obama so emphatically embodies hope that a new page can be turned in America is his race, which sets him immediately apart from every American President up to this moment in time. America always sits up and pays attention when the script is dramatically changed. It did so when JFK was poised to become the first Catholic elected President. It is already doing that somewhat now with Mitt Romney becoming a serious Morman candidate for President. Had Hillary Clinton not already spent 8 years in the White House married to a recent President, the new page being turned aspect of her female candidacy would likely be more talked about than it is now also. But the race line has long been the sharpest line drawn in American society.

Barack being Black is a classic double edged sword in politics, one so naturally firmly in play that it wields itself virtually automatically, and it cuts both ways. Barack dramatically represents change and many Americans are yearning for dramatic change but others harbor fears about change also. It is more than naive, it is disengenuous for anyone to pretend that Bill or Hillary Clinton, or any individual, or any one group can inject race into this Presidential race when it already occupies a front row seat, both for better and for worse. The racial undertones aren't in Hillary's campaign, they are in America. They are real and they are present. If a Clinton staffer stumbles over a line walked dealing with them, yes they must take the fall that comes with that stumble, and indeed they have when that has happened. But if our poltical system insists that any real discussion over how America reacts to Obama's historic candidacy be held in whispers only, it will sometimes look like a whisper campaign.

What is best about America and what is worst about America will emerge more fully if the Democrats nominate Barack Obama to be president. I think that conclusion is unmistakable, and should that happen I beleive America's Good will triumph over America's Evil, which will be a great and mighty battle won for all our future generations. But I will not pretend that reality is other than it is.

[EFerrari]

110. I think, if I read your post well, that we mostly agree.

And, overlooking the sniping and the missteps, I think we owe both the Clinton and the Obama campaigns a debt of gratitude for pushing through both the racism and sexism that we largely want to avoid acknowledging because we don't know what to do about it and because there is a sense of shame that hangs over our discussions.

Edit: clarity

[Tom Rinaldo]

125. Yes I think we do

You captured the awkward nature of this very well in your post.

When this contest phase is safely behind us it will be easier for us all to appreciate the thresholds we are finally crossing, and the special burden that has been placed on both these leaders to carry on all of our behalf. They carry that weight in a high wire act with the flimsiest of nets to catch them if and when they stumble. But this is a very special year, one that has long been overdue for America.

[jefferson_dem]

42. The Clinton campaign needs to be called out for their deplorable campaign tactics...

:kick:

[Evergreen Emerald]

46. how many times should they be called out for the same debunked lies?

[Tom Rinaldo]

51. The Clinton campaign needs to embrace Ground Hog Day.

In order for Clinton to sufficiently atone for some staff doing or saying inappropriate things, those staff should start out every morning restored to their full staff status and then they should be dismissed again every evening, rightly so, for what they did.

When the alarm goes off each morning Shaheen should start out as Co-Chair for Clinton's NH campaign again. Everyone should have a fresh chance to be completely outraged over his comments and demand that he be let go. Clinton should be forced to admit that his statements did not reflect the type of campaign she wanted to run before having to accept his resignation later that day. Then we can all go to sleep and wake up the next morning with renewed outrage to find Shaheen acting as Co-Chair of Clinton's NH campaign once more, allowing us to force him to resign again.

Repeat this every day, just like in the movie, until Clinton is defeated for the Democratic nomination. I mean, fair is fair.

[BootinUp]

57. lol nt

[Cameron27]

77. Yep

:thumbsup:

[suston96]

48. Amazing ! A black person runs for President......and there are racial undertones?

That is really shocking ! Racial undertomes in America? Really shocking !

[MethuenProgressive]

52. I'm waiting for ObamaNation to blame Hillary for Obama's being black.

It's only a matter of time.

[EFerrari]

99. What an extraordinary statement.

It's posts like that one that make me want to go out and walk for Obama even though I have refrained until now.

[Lurking Dem]

114. Unlike *some* of Hillary's supporters

we don't view his being black as a character flaw.

[Forkboy]

49. I asked the other day when they break out the Willie Horton type ads.

All the campaigns have had their moments of ugliness, but only one campaign seems to be willing to wallow in it.

[sniffa]

50. K&R

only the blind don't see this.

[suston96]

55. So Obama brings in Oprah Winfrey leading the charge of the black brigade.......

...and the Hillary campaign is the one with the racial undertones?

[sniffa]

56. that's an astounding post

[MethuenProgressive]

58. Oprah's demo is older white women. So your suggestion isn't sound.

Obama did bring in Donnie McClurkin, and his demographics are much more telling than Oprah's.

[suston96]

59. "Oprah's demo is older white women." Not any more.

She blew her: "You go, girlfriend" support by ignoring the first woman candidate for President and choosing to go for a member of her race.

And BTW - I don't blame her one bit but those are the facts. She can afford to accept the risk as she changed her own demographics to support the first black to have a serious shot at the presidency.

[sniffa]

60. wow

another astounding post. i think your theory should be in an OP.

[MethuenProgressive]

61. Her Nielson Ratings changed after her endorsement of Obama? Link?

Please, do go on.

[suston96]

63. Google: Oprah Obama support....

Here is one: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/122007dnnatoprahpoll.25512e3.html

Poll: Oprah's Obama support driving away younger women

Almost a third said her presence makes them less likely to back him

09:46 PM CST on Wednesday, December 19, 2007
By CHRISTY HOPPE / The Dallas Morning News

AUSTIN – The Oprah Winfrey endorsement might have generated a lot of
press for Barack Obama, but not a lot of impress, particularly among
younger women, a poll released Wednesday shows.

A Lifetime/Zogby poll of women shows that of those 18 to 29, almost a third said
they were less likely to support the Illinois senator because of the Oprah
support. Older women, over 65, also showed they were ruffled by Ms.
Winfrey stepping "out of her pew," as the daytime diva herself described
it. About 17 percent of older women said the endorsement made them less
likely to support Mr. Obama.

Among other age groups, those who disliked the endorsement were offset
by an equal amount who said they were more inclined to look more
favorably at Mr. Obama because of it.

The poll sponsored by the Lifetime TV network is part of a 15-year
program aimed at engaging women in elections.

"There's a great potential to see women playing a major role in
determining who will be the next president of the United States," said
Debbie Walsh, director of Rutgers University's Center for American
Women and Politics.

"And with all the evidence that we have that women vote differently than
men, we also see the potential for a gender gap in the outcome of that
race," she said.

[sniffa]

86. "Charge Of The Black Brigade"

i'm still stunned you said this. nope, no racial undertones whatsoever.

[Forkboy]

98. Awww c'mon, that's a heartwarming comment.

I'm getting the warm fuzzies just thinking about it! Why do you hate America?

[Lurking Dem]

105. Sniffa hates the baby Jesus.

And I heard (from Tayl0rz Marshun!!1!) he kicked a puppy once.

[Forkboy]

107. I knew it.

Just typical. Some people's kids! :evilgrin:

[EFerrari]

108. Sniffa ate my kitten.

The cute one.

[sniffa]

115. but he was delicious

i had a side of roasted new potatoes with it. :9

[EFerrari]

118. Damn you, Khan!

:)

[Lurking Dem]

120. You ate her kitten

(the cute one) AND you had carbs???!?!?!?

You really are the devil incarnate!

[IndianaGreen]

62. Bill Clinton has been sounding like Orval Faubus lately, and I have posted about it

How dare we consider the up-and-coming BLACK MAN, "he's not ready" or "it's not his time," over the noble WHITE WOMAN.

As someone that spent some time in Georgia when Lester Maddox was governor, Bill Clinton pushed all of those racists buttons in the Charlie Rose interview.

[MethuenProgressive]

64. Barack Obama is to Elmer Gantry as Bill Clinton is to Orval Faubus.

Especially as Obama seems to be as fictional a character as Gantry was.

[HuffleClaw]

66. so now its 'criticizing obama means you're racist'?

i thought we'd already covered that one

[Forkboy]

68. No more than criticizing Hillary is sexist.

We keep having to go over that one too.

But the Shaheen shit WAS trying to play into racial stereotypes. :shrug:

[sniffa]

69. it was ugly racist shit

i think the Clinton campaign should go into overdrive using code words. it works well for her.

[EFerrari]

89. HRC is too far to the right of Richard Nixon for me.

But this cr@P -- I'm astonished. I thought she and her campaign were better than that.

[MethuenProgressive]

112. Obama is DUntouchable.

We're not allowed to not worship him the way ObamaNation does.

[EFerrari]

121. One would hope that we can distinguish between criticism

and racist slurs.

That may be ambitious.

[zulchzulu]

67. As an Obama supporter and grassroots activist, that is the challenge with both Hillary and Barack

Of course, racism is a part of the decision on whether the American people are "ready" for a black President. Are they "ready" for a woman President? I say yes on both counts, but know that it is definitely going to be an "issue" in November 2008.

Being that I think Americans could vote for either a woman or a black (or Hispanic for that matter), part of the challenge is to have Americans face up to taking this country to the next level.

Whether there is an undercurrent in the Clinton campaign to play the "electability" rationality regarding race, I not so sure. Certainly they would know that if someone isn't ready for a black president, they certainly wouldn't vote for a woman either.

[BenDavid]

93. Mrs Obama was the first to interject race into this campaign. Take

a look back when she gave that interview and the response from many was like the following:

from urban grounds:

Michelle Obama: If You’re Black, Vote for Barack. Because He’s Black.
When Sen. Barack Obama inevitably loses in his bid to become the next President of the United States (whether that be in the Democratic Primary or in the General Election), his wife has already started laying the foundation of blame.

And who is Michelle Obama laying the early blame on? Black people.

Michelle Obama thinks that if her hubby doesn’t win, it’s because black folk don’t have enough self-esteem:

Reporter: “The polls are showing your husband is trailing Hillary by 46% to 37% in the African-American community. What’s going on here?”

Mrs. Obama: “First of all, I think that that’s not going to hold. I’m completely confident: black America will wake up, and get . But what we’re dealing with in the black community is just the natural fear of possibility.

Riiiiigggghhhtttt….

Read the entire thing — in addition to blaming black people’s low self esteem for her husbands failed popularity — Michelle also tells the black community that they should be voting for her hubby for no other reason than they share the same color skin.

Now imagine that the white wife of a white senator blamed their campaign woes on the low self esteem of the black community…

Now disagree with that!

[NYCGirl]

95. Is this the astoundingly racist blog you got that from?

http://urbangrounds.com/

Edited to add: I see now why you didn't want to include a link.

[suston96]

104. So what's wrong with a link to a blogger with his own website and to his own opinion?

[Forkboy]

122. And what a site it is!

And that anonymous commenter is right — I do have disdain for people who don’t want to work; people who want other people to support them; people who think they are entitled to a life of welfare. Damn straight I have disdain for those lazy, nearly-worthless, people.

And they’re not that way because of Hurricane Katrina. Most of those folks were already living that way long before the floods forced them to move into subsidized housing somewhere else.

My favorite part — and one of the things that makes my disdain for them grow by an order of magnitude — is when they play the race card; when they think that they are entitled to a life of welfare because they are black, and any attempt to wean them from their entitlement lifestyle must be racism…

hey, he goes on to quote Michelle Malkin, so how could the site suck?

http://urbangrounds.com/2007/12/23/sharon-jasper/

I’m not saying that Presidents shouldn’t be criticized nor scrutinized — but to do it in such a hateful and disrespectful manner the way the left has is another thing entirely. The rampant Bush Derangement Syndrome I’ve seen over the last 7 years has been sad, pathetic, and disheartening.

http://urbangrounds.com/2007/12/23/supporting-the-president/


Hurricane Katrina Victims Losing Their Free Rent After 2+ Years?

The Houston Chornicle has a piece today that I’m sure is supposed to illicit sympathy for Hurricane Katrina victims (remeber Hurricane Katrina — the natural disaster that hit the Gulf Coast more than 2 years ago?) who are losing their government paid for homes and apartments in Houston.

Families like Michelle Mercadel, pictured here.


I’m sorry — but how long does this lady and other Hurricane Katrina victims expect the government to pay their rent? Indefinitely?

It’s been two years of living rent free. If you can’t get yourself back on your feet after two years of assistance, you’re probably not all that motivated or inclined to actually do so.

http://urbangrounds.com/2007/12/20/katrina-victims-losing-housing/


Ted Kennedy to “Write” Book

Drunk Uncle Teddy is “writing” a book (and by “writing”, we all know of course that means “someone else will actually write it for him”):

WASHINGTON - Senator Edward M. Kennedy has agreed to a multimillion dollar deal with Hachette Book Group USA to pen his memoirs, giving the veteran Massachusetts lawmaker a forum for his own perspective on a life and career that has been examined by others in countless books and articles, negotiators of the deal confirmed yesterday.

An early leaked transcript shows that the chapter on the 1969 Chappaquiddick incident is titled “If I Did It…”, where Drunk Uncle Teddy describes how he “would have” killed Mary Jo Kopechne if he had really killed her…

http://urbangrounds.com/2007/11/27/tedd-can-write/

Feel free to keep defending it. It suits you.

[Forkboy]

126. Kick

[hayu_lol]

109. This is just another of those old tired...

beat Hillary over the head threads. Ummm, that attempted to slam Hillary(last time I looked Bill wasn't running)with a race card and using for their own justification, we don't want a woman for president.

You HillHaters can continue to use whatever cards you wish...ain't gonna wash out however and you are stuck with it.

All this simple-minded talk about followers of Hillary, supporters of Hillary, surrogates of Hillary and so on reminds me of the problem we used to have with the followers of Dennis.

They would plan to do this to this site, or that site, other sites on the official Dennis site(the old one they lost because all their plans were there to read. I suppose Dennis should have been taken to task for his supporters, followers, and surrogates. Naw, he didn't even have mods on his site to keep things aboveboard.

Choose your own candidate and leave the other candidates alone.

[EFerrari]

124. Actually, it isn't. There is a real concern here for the tenor

coming out of the Clinton campaign.

I haven't read any comments from the Obama campaign asking why Hillary is claiming her husband's experience as her own. Are there any?

There really is such a thing as decency, even in the primaries. And when the Clinton campaign starts injecting racist stereotypes into the discussion, they need to be called on their bs.

Sure, the wingnut media will blow it all out of proportion. But, her campaign gave them an opening to go there. That's incredibly self destructive, not to mention, a set up for whoever our candidate is after the primaries.

[EFerrari]

101. Heaven forbid the black community should support the black community.

:scared:

[MethuenProgressive]

111. Has ObamaNation blamed his childhood in Hawaii on Clinton yet?

Cowabunga, dude! :rofl:

[sniffa]

117. this post of yours never gets old

:thumbsup: