A disturbing thing about the Clinton surrogates attacks of Obama, its all or nothing for Clinton

[wndycty]

One of the things that I look forward to once the primaries are over is the ability of the Democratic party to come together and to rally behind the eventual nominee. In the past Democrats, regardless of who they supported in the primary, put their differences aside and have stumped for the eventual nominee. This year it seems like many of Hillary Clinton's surrogates/supporters have basically taken the stance that if she does not secure the nomination and Obama does they will not be available to stump for him in the general election. Tell me how if any of the following can be taken seriously campaigning for Obama if he is the eventual nominee:

1) Bill Clinton--says an Obama presidency will be like rolling the dice

2) Bob Kerrey--claims Obama attended a madrassa

3) Joe Wilson--calls Obama a coward

4) Billy Shaheen--questions whether or not Obama was a drug dealer

I know politics is tough and these folks have said nothing the GOP wouldn't say but the big difference is that if Obama gets the nomination he shouldn't be able to expect members of the GOP to campaign for him, as he should other Democrats to support him.

This post is not meant to even remotely suggest that Obama should not be criticized, but its to point out that the tone of many of his critics puts them on the sidelines in November should he get the nod. I often thought how good it would be for Bill Clinton to campaign at Obama's side if he gets the nomination, but sadly if Obama gets the nod, Bill, by his words, has put himself on the sidelines.

[calteacherguy]

1. I have concluded, with great sadness, that the Clintons care more about themselves than the country

For Bill, it's all about his legacy now. In his mind Hillary's fate is tied up with his legacy.

And he will stop at nothing.

[wndycty]

3. It is begining to look that way. . .

. . .if Obama is the nominee the Clinton's will not be able to help him out.

[jefferson_dem]

28. That's the sorry truth, teacherguy.

The Clintons have sacrificed any small bit of principle and dignity they had left in a desperate "scorched earth" effort to claim and maintain their grip on power.

[zulchzulu]

37. An NPR comment on Bill Clinton captured the Clintonian Principle perfectly

It was on yesterday's NPR report where a commentator (not sure who he was) said the Bill Clinton would embrace issues that Republicans wanted and add his own name to them and then have the Republicans vote for them. DOMA, welfare reform, DADT, Telecommunications Act, NAFTA... all perfect for Republicans but passed by Clinton.

The Clintons certainly care only about themselves and are a scourge on the Democratic Party in my view.

[BeyondGeography]

70. What really scares him is that a President Obama will dwarf his legacy

and he will live to see it. The first black president in our history, coming to power at a time when the country looks to be ready to move forward on big issues like health care and energy, someone who will carry himself with dignity and, worst of all, someone whose global stature will be exponentially larger than his own.

Bill wanted to be JFK; never came close. Obama has a shot. Sucks to be Bill if Obama pulls this off.

[Richard Steele]

92. I have to agree with you on that one. nm

[JackORoses]

97. of course it's all about them

Bill desperately wants a chance to ameliorate his damaged Presidency inthe eyes of History.

[Beacool]

100. The one who cares about himself more than the country

is the one guy who should have waited until he had more than 2 years in the US senate before he decided that he was prepared and fit to be president.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. If Obama (or anyone but Clinton) gets the nod, the Clintonistas should be purged

All of them, including the Clintons. They didn't help John Kerry and they won't help anyone but Hillary Clinton. They will do more harm than good.

[wndycty]

4. I don't like that. I remain a fan of both Bill and Hillary. . .

. . .I'm just very disappointed with they way they have run their campaign and the tone they have set.

[calteacherguy]

6. That's going too far and throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

There are many good, smart people who worked for the Clinton administration. Ironically, many of them are now on Obama's team. Any Democratic administration will have a wealth of talent on their side.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. Not all people who worked with the Clintons are "Clintonistas" in the sense I'm using

I'm talking people like McCauliffe and Carville, and of course the Clintons themselves. I just don't trust them to help anyone but the Clintons. I was at a luncheon last year where Terry McCauliffe was the speaker. His sneering disdain for John Kerry was very obvious, and completely inappropriate. I came to the conclusion that not only is he an arrogant asshole, but he will stop at nothing to ensure that the Clintons are returned to the White House, up to and including sabotaging fellow Democrats.

[comradebillyboy]

18. Bet you hated that 8 years of peace and prosperity

under Clinton. Did you vote for Bush 41 or Bob Dole or Ross Perot if you hated Bill Clinton so much?

Don't blame Clinton for the fact that Kerry ran an incompetent campaign, or that Gore lost by running away from the Clinton record and embracing Holy Joe instead. If either one of those jokers had run a competent campaign they could have overcome the Republican voter fraud. But neither one had the stomach for a real fight.

Tell me who was the last person to win an election who was nice to their opponents. I don't think either Edwards or Obama are playing nice either, despite their pretenses and protestations to the contrary.

[JTFrog]

31. You are sellng false security.

There was plenty of economical backlash from Clinton's policies. From Welfare Reform to NAFTA. Not everyone lived the little white picket fence life during the Clinton years.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. Piss off. nt

[Cha]

14. Yeah, the ones who were

against the war on Iraq are on Obama's team.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

79. ctg, I'm happy to agree with you on this.

As one who has had to access FMLA for an ailing parent, I'm thankful for that safety valve. Additionally, during his presidency, the WH did a great job on diplomacy and negotiating win/win situations or at least keeping the parties talking.

Sadly, it seems there's an inside the beltway perception that Sen Clinton was a lock for going to the G.E. and that general POV has appeared to hinder her campaign's approach as well as given us a view of Pres Clinton, as he operates from that view of entitlement rather than consensus building, which has been very disappointing to those of us who admire both of them.

MKJ

[sandnsea]

5. They're what's wrong with the party anyway

To hell with the lot of them.

[undercoverduer]

7. K&R

:kick:

[Bitwit1234]

9. More Hillary bashing bullshit don't you people ever stop

I have about 40 -50 excerts about the mess Obama is and has made but it is worth the effort to type up....but then Hillary supporters have class something Obama Idolers don't know the meaning of.

[undercoverduer]

10. Hillary supportes have class? Which ones? Penn? Kerrey? Shaheen?

LOL. . .surely you jest.

[Cha]

15. More low class

babble from a hillary emissary.

[Forkboy]

44. Flub a dub blib blob bleeb.

[MethuenProgressive]

64. .

.

[Richard Steele]

93. That was almost a sentence. nm

[MGKrebs]

11. You remember how surrogates of Bush claimed McCain had an illegitimate

child before the South Carolina primary? And after that McCain and Bush became big buddies.

This is nothin'. (Although I haven't seen the Wilson comment you refer to. That seems a bit harsh.)

[wndycty]

13. Well in that case Bush won the nomination. . .

. . .also in the Bush/McCain case Bush had plausible denaibility, the Clinton folks don't.

[Cha]

12. I hear ya and I like

John Edwards the best of all the candidates.

hillary's emissaries are showing no class and bringing themselves down to karl rove's gutter position..not that they care.

Does hillary really think she's miss white ass and therefore nothing can touch her?

"All or nothing for clinton"? When has hillary ever not tried to knife another Dem who was in her way back to the whitehouse?

Rec'd~

Edit~ Oh, and putting bill on the sidelines would be a good thing.

[Evergreen Emerald]

16. you what I don't understand? This thread has no basis in fact, and they truly believe it!

The media is such an influence on vulnerable people.


There was no "attacking" Obama. Good God, this is POLITICS. When Clinton mentions his history of lack of votes--it is deemed an attack by the media and everyone follows suit.

When Obama attacks Edwards on 527--it is "pointing out differences."

This thread shows why we are in trouble in the US.

[wndycty]

19. Calling the man a coward as Joe Wilson did is an attack. . .

Saying he went to a a madrassa as Bob Kerrey did was an attack.

Questioning whether or not he was a drug dealer (EVEN THOUGH NO OTHER CANDIDATE WHO HAS EITHER ADMITTED OR BEEN ACCUSED OF USING DRUGS HAS EVER BEEN QUESTIONED ABOUT DEALING DRUGS) as Billy Shaheen did is an attack.

Telling people they are rolling the dice in voting for him as Bill Clinton did is an attack.

Don't blame the media or call Obama supporters vulnerable to try and reframe the argument.

[Evergreen Emerald]

24. where were you when Obama called Clinton a liar and said she had

no character? That is an attack. Where were you?

Double standard.

[undercoverduer]

29. A candidate attacking another candidate is one thing. . .

. . .and is to be expected, I see no double standard there.

[earthlover]

46. Could you please provide a quote? Methinks you exaggerate

[Lurking Dem]

52. Link?

[undercoverduer]

63. Of course there is no link

:kick:

[Lurking Dem]

71. Yeah, well,

there's always Taylor Marsh. :P

[Evergreen Emerald]

80. Seriously? Do you guys have memory problems that you cannot remember

October and November? Or is it selective memory?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21738432/

MR. RUSSERT: You had an exchange with The New York Times. It says here, “In an interview, Obama said Hillary Clinton was deliberately obscuring her positions for political gain. Asked if she had been fully truthful with voters about what she should do as president, Mr. Obama replied, ‘No.’” On which issues has Hillary Clinton not been truthful?


Now, I am not going to hunt for the NY times article in which Obama said it, but you get the idea. I can't believe you don't remember it.

[indimuse]

87. obama=bush tactics...

Accuse...lie...look over here...never address OR vote on issues.And all the way back last June when the Obama campaign developed an oppo document referring to Hillary Clinton as (D-Punjab)

http://attacktimeline.com

AND HIS SUPPORTER ARE JUST LIKE THE BUSHY SUPPORTER..UNINFORMED AND HILLARY/CLITON BASHERS!

REMEMBER THE RIGHT WANTS NOTHING MORE THAN OBAMAROMNEY (((The ONE who INFLATES ALL!!)))to get this 2008 nomination. He is simply not ready to endure the RW slime machine..THINK PEOPLE! Invision the 527S they have in store for his INEXPERIENCED ASS..what about Michelle....they will ATTACK relentlessly..she has already made some VERY incriminating comments they will use. Hillary is the strongest of ALL candidates and the most prepared to move this country forward and repair damages worldwide. ANOTHER THING...WHEN WE SPEAK OF CHANGE....A "WOMAN" IS THE ONLY REAL CHANGE! UNLESS MICHELLE IS THE IS WHAT SHE ADMITTS...THE HEAD OF THE AND ALWAYS RIGHT ...NOW THAT WOMAN SCARES ME...YOU TALK ABOUT POWER HUNGRY?

[Forkboy]

89. I take it "OBAMAROMNEY " is the new directive?

[Richard Steele]

94. Sure looks that way, doesn't it?

I guess a whole bunch of folks just invented it independently & simultaneously. :sarcasm:

[ellisonz]

101. You disgrace Bob Marley!

And it's not "blessed are the peace keepers" for a reason...

:thumbsdown:

[Windy]

27. the sad part is, I think you believe what you're spouting...

Just like bush supporters over the years in an endless spin cycle to cover for their dear leader.

I'll give it to you though, you don't give up....

Tell me, what's it like to live in a dream world?

We don't need blind loyalty in the democratic party. The US is in bad stead around the world due to this sort of nonsense and our civil liberties have been eroded.

No more!

[Evergreen Emerald]

40. Windy

I have seen your posts that ignore the obvious. And, from you frankly, I do not appreciate being compared to a bush supporter. Go to freeper ville if you want to stoop that low.

[Windy]

96. Your blind loyalty puts you in the same category. I'm sorry. n/t

[SOS]

51. "There was no "attacking" Obama."?

There was, however, an outright lie.
The false madrassa story originated in the Clinton campaign and was passed to the far-right Moonie Insight magazine.

It's as malicious and disgusting as the Bush sliming of McCain in SC in 2000.

Frank Rich points this out, far more eloquently, in today's NYT.

[creeksneakers2]

66. The Clintons didn't originate the Madrassa story

And they didn't pass it to the Moonie magazine. The madrassa story was an E-mail hoax. Moonies accused the Clintons of starting it but never came up with any evidence. Its an outright lie.

[OHdem10]

17. Stop whining and fight back.

You give the Clintons' Credibilty. Right now people are wondering
who is tough enough to go the distance. Sure HRC and sling a hard
punch and God knows she can take them. Yes she will fight back.

Being Whiney Bugs does not help Obama. What do you do when the
GOP let loose with guns ablazing. This is the fear people
have about Obama along with lack of experience.

[comradebillyboy]

20. Hit the nail right on the head there nt

[wndycty]

21. Hey pointing out a disturbing trend is not whining or are you just too ignorant to understand that?

:kick:

[Quixote1818]

22. That is fighting back. It's called not putting up with the swift boating

Everyone criticized Kerry for not fighting back and now everyone is criticizing Obama for fighting back. :eyes:

[undercoverduer]

25. When Obama and his supporters fight back its called "whining," the syncophants are well trained

On cue. . .the Hillary Hub thinks of everything.

[BootinUp]

23. This is garbage nt

[undercoverduer]

26. How is that garbage. . .the OP just pointed out the obvious. . .

. . .if Obama is the nominee he will not be able to use the last elected Democratic president as a surrogate because that surrogate has gone negative on him.

[Quixote1818]

30. Thats why Ex- Presidents are supposed to stay out of this.

Not only that. The Republicans can QUOTE Bill Clinton when attacking Obama. Now that is fucked up! Thanks Bill! :grr:

[BootinUp]

48. After the attacks from Obama and his surrogates on the Clintons

why would they want his help in the GE?

[Nailzberg]

32. It bothers me a lot.

I have been juggling a second choice knowing I may not have Biden to vote for by my primary.

I am a journalist and documentary filmmaker. And in between projects I've put my research and media skills to use for political candidates. So I actually have followed the IL General Assembly quite closely over the years. It's quite a different body than the US Congress, and operates with a different set of rules. And it bothers me that Hillary is so disingenuous in her attacks on Obama's years in this body, distorting the reality of how present votes work in IL. Her supporters will say, "Well, the GOP will do the same if he's the nominee." And yes, that may be true. But that's why I hate the GOP and don't vote for them.

So if I don't have Biden to vote for, who will be my second choice? Hillary isn't making much a case for my vote.

[wndycty]

33. "But that's why I hate the GOP and don't vote for them."

So true. . .and that argument from Hillary's camp has been particularly disgusting.

[Lucinda]

98. Perhaps you might want to look at those Illinois present votes a bit more

They are not all explained away.

[HughMoran]

35. Oh, c'mon - what the fuck do you expect them to say before the voting occurs?

People always change their tune when reality hits them in the face - you know it, and I know it.

[wndycty]

36. There are some situations in which that is true and there are others when its not. . .

. . .policy positions yes, but personal attacks such as calling someone a coward, no.

[HughMoran]

39. I really expect a serious softening of the tone once a candidate is selected

Democrats will still want to support the Democratic candidate. We'll be fine, you'll see...

[wndycty]

41. It will be too late, they can soften their rhetoric all they want. . .

. . .but some of the comments made make it extremely hard for some of the Clinton candidates to have any credibility stumping for Obama. Its not about Obama forgiving them, its about anyone believing them.

[HughMoran]

43. Nah, you are over-reading the current sniping

It will all be forgotten soon enough. Just as my best friends were people I had the best knock down drag out fights with.

[BenDavid]

38. If it were not for HRC the dems would not even have a half ass

chance at the presidency in 08. I still say HRC is our best candidate and if obama does get the nomination then he can thank HRC because it allowed him to better position hisself. If HRC had not entered, the I doubt serious obama would even be given as much positive press as he has received. All the positive press for obama and the negative press on HRC has allowed obama to move up in the polls. I still say obama is not our best choice.

[HughMoran]

42. I agree - a tough primary with a preview of the Republican murder machine is GOOD

What could be a better warm up than this? Does anyone think that any of what we are sniping at each other now will be of any significance when the hateful Republican sleaze machine gets into full gear?

[wndycty]

45. You know that is a BS argument. . .

. . .especially when you consider that the Republicans can now say "as Bill Clinton said electing Barack Obama is like rolling the dice." First of all it means the last elected Democrat cannot be an effective or credible surrogate for Obama and it also gives them an additional attack by quoting him, Shaheen, Kerrey or Wilson.

[HughMoran]

47. I still think you are over-reading this current sniping

I may be wrong, but there is so much more ready to unfold before us - I am hardly worried about Bill's comments - Republicans hate him so much I can't imagine them even wanting to give him credit by repeating his words. I may be wrong, but I don't think so...

[wndycty]

49. You know they will. . .

. . .when talking about Obama the GOP will say "hell even Bill Clinton thinks its a mistake to elect him, he did say it would be like rolling the dice."

[HughMoran]

50. Guess we'll see...

:hi:

[MethuenProgressive]

53. This is untrue: Billy Shaheen--questions whether or not Obama was a drug dealer

That's factually inaccurate. And you know it.

[hayu_lol]

58. Looks as if the word SURROGATES is the buzz word of this election...

See, Obama doesn't attack, it is always his surrogates. This thread began knocking Hillary...but the knocking was done instead, by surrogates...the OP.

Makes for a great Hillary-bashing thread starter. Hillary surrogates....

Bingo, you have your message out without really saying anything.

[undercoverduer]

61. Oh really now

-snip-
Last week, Billy Shaheen, Clinton's co-chairman in New Hampshire, resigned from the campaign after floating the rumor that Obama, in his youth, may have been not just a drug user but a drug dealer.
-snip-

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/17/navarrette/

[ClarkUSA]

69. ZING!!

Nice job of researching. :applause:

A warm welcome to DU! Thanks for standing up for the truth and offering facts.

[undercoverduer]

75. Thanks but look at my sig line. . I AIN'T NEW. . .LOL

:kick:

[ClarkUSA]

81. Oops...

You really are undercover, eh?

Well, you are a welcome sight on this and any thread, no matter who you are and when you signed up. :hi:

[Forkboy]

72. kick

[MNDemNY]

62. But it sounds better..more "victimy"

[ClarkUSA]

73. This from someone who says Obama can never win because he's black...

:puke:

Oh, and I forgot... you claim to be a Kucinich supporter, right?

Only you spend most of your time trashing Obama and defending Hillary...

[MethuenProgressive]

54. This is not true: Joe Wilson--calls Obama a coward

That is factually inaccurate, and you know it.

[undercoverduer]

57. "She does not have a cowardly record of voting “present” when. . ."

Sounds like he is calling somebody a coward.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/21/the-real-hillary-i-know-and-the-unreal-obama/

[Forkboy]

74. kick

[MethuenProgressive]

55. This is not true: Bill Clinton--says an Obama presidency will be like rolling the dice

He said an Obama *candidacy* would be rolling the dice.
And you know it.

[tblue37]

56. But I also see posts by supposed Dems who insist that if HRC gets the nom,

they won't vote for her under any circumstances.

I think it's all nonsense. The worst Dem candidate, no matter who any person thinks that might be, is still far better than the best Repub candidate. If for no other reason, vote Dem because this Supreme Court will affect our lives for the next generation, as will appointments to the federal bench, and several SC justices cannot last for another four-year term. Even SD O'Conner was trying to hold out until '04 to help redress the wrong she committed in '00, but couldn't last beyond '04 because of her husband's Alzheimer's. If we don't have a Dem pres and a Dem Senate next time, we will lose two or three more SC seats, and they will be filled with Opus Dei, Federalist Society monsters like Scalia, Alito, and Roberts.

[MethuenProgressive]

59. This is not true: Bob Kerrey--claims Obama attended a madrassa

"I've watched the blogs try to say that you can't trust because he spent a little bit of time in a secular madrassa," the Nebraska Democrat said on the Situation Room with John King. "I feel quite opposite. I think it's a tremendous strength whether he's in the United States Senate or whether he's in the White House." - Bob Kerry
-------------------
Spinning that into "he claimed he attended a madrassa!!" is hysteric hyperbole - at best.

[ClarkUSA]

60. Here is what someone who knew Bill since 1991 says about the Bill of 2007:

From Iowa True Blue:

Bill Clinton is attacking Obama's experience?
By John Schmidt
December 19, 2007

Bill Clinton on the "Charlie Rose Show" last week compared Barack Obama's experience unfavorably to his own before he was president.
That brought back vivid memories of conversations with him in the fall of 1991 when he came to Chicago looking for support.

I ended up agreeing to be co-chairman of Clinton's Illinois finance effort. But it was certainly not his experience that persuaded me.

He had spent 11 years as governor of Arkansas. He was, he said on "Charlie Rose," "the senior U.S. governor." Well, yes, but of a state
with a total population less than Chicago's. And Arkansas is not only small but poor, with an overwhelmingly rural economy.

Clinton had no experience at all in the national government.

His most striking limitation was the fact that his entire adult experience outside government consisted of three years teaching at University
of Arkansas Law School, during which he ran unsuccessfully for Congress.

I sat there thinking: Can someone with such limited experience be a successful president?

I decided the answer was yes because of his obvious intelligence and because of the way he had put that intelligence to work in thinking
about critical issues facing the country.

He was remarkably free of Democratic orthodoxy.

On the need to deal with criminal violence -- at that time an urgent necessity for cities like Chicago -- he talked not in rhetorical terms but
very practically about putting 100,000 new police officers on the streets.

He talked about getting beyond partisan divisions in Washington to solve problems. The bipartisan 1994 crime bill that created the COPS
program was a great example of actually doing that.

He did not have Barack Obama's experience in the government of a large and diverse state like Illinois, or in the national government as a
U.S. Senator, or any of Obama's experiences outside government.

But he sounded a lot more like Barack than like Hillary today.

Of course, Clinton also had what he conceded to Charlie Rose are Obama's "enormous political skills."

Better than Barack's? Different, I would say. At the 1988 Democratic convention, Clinton delivered one of the longest and worst-received
speeches in convention history. He never achieved the oratorical heights in his 1992 campaign that Obama reached at the 2004 Democratic
convention in Boston or more recently at the Iowa Jefferson-Jackson Day Dinner.

But Clinton had a gift for conveying empathy that made him a powerful candidate. Once he overcame the disorganization of his initial White
House and until he was immobilized by the Lewinsky scandal, Clinton was an effective president.

I was proud to have supported and worked for him. His effort to denigrate Obama today does no service to his reputation.

John Schmidt, a partner at Mayer Brown LLP in Chicago, served as associate attorney general in the Clinton administration. He is a co-chair
of Lawyers for Obama.

[MethuenProgressive]

65. "He is co-chair of lawyers for Obama" and he's for Obama?? Shocking!!

Big. Fucking. Deal.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClarkUSA]

95. It is telling that he is not supporting Hillary after serving under Bill Clinton, eh?

That. Is. A. Big. Fucking. Deal.

[BluegrassDem]

67. The Clintons don't care about Democrats or the country

They only care about themselves and their greed for power. They don't care about any Democrat winning except them, so Obama will just have to deal with other Democrats who are willing to help him.

[oasis]

76. Bill Clinton will conserve his energy for Hillary's 2012 run against President Huckabee

should Obama get the Dem nod in 2008.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

90. If that's the case, it will be because they pull the same shit they did in 2004

They'd rather cede the White House to the GOP than help a Dem who is not a Clinton get elected. Wonder if they'll go on TV and praise Huckabee like they did Bush in 2004.

[oasis]

91. Should the Clinton's beat their heads against the wall in a futile Obama vs. GOP effort?

They'd likely make a couple of photo op appearances w/ Obama, forgiving his negative Hillary attacks. Then, it's time to go on a real vacation. Hawaii maybe?

The Obamaniks can have all the credit for the 2008 GOP landslide.

[creeksneakers2]

77. The Clintons will support the nominee

The issues that come from one primary candidate criticizing another are always overcome.

I'm sure John Edwards said negative things about John Kerry before he became Kerry's running mate. All Clinton has to do is say that there are great points about Obama too and that they trump what the GOP has.

The people who said unfortunate things about Obama were not acting as Clinton surrogates. People believe they were because people believe the Clintons are sinister. One accusation based on nothing more than suspicion fuels the next. The believer can conclude from the first falsehood that the Clintons are also the types who wouldn't support the nominee. Anger leads the believer to spin reality, like saying Billy Shaheen questioned whether Obama was a drug dealer on not. Shaheen just used that as an example of what Obama might be asked.

The idea that the Clintons are sinister is based on nothing more than speculation. They'll support the nominee. They always do.

[undercoverduer]

78. But given the tone of their attacks it will not be credible support. . .

. . .its kind of hard to believe they will support Obama if he is the nominee after calling him a drug dealer, a coward, et al. We all know those surrogates who threw that out there were acting on orders from on-high.

[creeksneakers2]

82. No, you don't know they were acting on orders

You've just concluded that based on your negative opinion of the Clintons.

The Clintons have disavowed those comments now. They won't be stuck with them later.

[undercoverduer]

85. So Bill Clinton has disavowed himself? Did Wilson get rebuked for calling Obama a coward?

:kick:

[Perry Logan]

83. An Obama Presidency is "like rolling the dice." That's a vicious attack to you guys?

[BeyondGeography]

84. No...but it is asinine and reckless when it comes from an ex-President

Hard as it is for Team Restoration to imagine, Obama might be the nominee. How's it going to look when that quote attributed to Bill Clinton appears in a Republican ad next fall?

Then again, it would also remind a mostly fatigued nation that Obama saved them from watching the Billary show for another four years so it could cut both ways.

[creeksneakers2]

86. What about the other way around?

What if Hillary wins the nomination? Will Obama support the nominee? How?

[BeyondGeography]

88. Of course he would campaign for her (as I'm sure Bill would for him)

And, if your concern is the criticisms that he has levelled against HRC, on their face they carry less than a fraction of the weight of an ex-President. Also, there's nothing comparable to "a roll of the dice" in whatever he has said about her. Even if there was, whatever is said between candidates in primary season can be taken with a grain of salt. Ex-Presidents have always adhered to a higher standard; Bill is the first in memory to conduct himself like a pure intra-party partisan hack, and all because he wants to get into the White House again. Congrats.

[MethuenProgressive]

102. An Obama *candidacy* is like rolling the dice is what he said.

And that's true.

[Beacool]

99. The reason is simple,

many people think that Obama is not qualified to be president in 2008. His platitudes are not a good enough reason to vote for him.

I know that I'm not the only one who will not campaign nor donate money to the national party if Obama is nominated.

Bill Clinton is all forgiving, but why should he or Hillary be expected to campaign for Obama after he questioned their integrity? If I were them, I would tell Obama to screw himself.