If Obama were elected, would he be the first president without a WASP or Irish name?

[XemaSab]

:shrug:

[Bullet1987]

1. What is WASP?

[NYCGirl]

2. "White Anglo Saxon Protestant" NT

[NewYorkerfromMass]

3. what the hell is Nixon? nt

[MonkeyFunk]

5. Dead

[LoveMyCali]

9. Dead, now that was funny

:rofl:

[ElizabethDC]

12. . . .

:rofl:

[ruggerson]

6. Irish

n/t

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. not Eisenhower

c'mon, this post was way off.

[no name no slogan]

83. Eisenhower's German

that's Saxon-- just like the British royal family (whose actual family name is Saxe-Coburg-Gotha).

[H2O Man]

84. "Nixon"

is an English name that came to County Fermanagh during the "plantation of Ulster" (1609). It later spread to County Wicklow.

[mac2]

87. Nixon was white and Anglo

but not a WASP. He was a Quaker which is not really main stream Protestant.

[MonkeyFunk]

4. Are there protestant names?

Anyway, Roosevelt is not a WASP name, nor is Eisenhower.

[Jim Sagle]

7. Nor is Hoover.

[rufus dog]

11. that is the name of a vacuum

[mac2]

56. Hoover was a vacuum?

In a way Hoover was a vacumm. He sucked the life out of America justlike Bush is doing today.

[XemaSab]

13. Hoover's German

I probably should have specified German in the OP too. :P

[XemaSab]

10. The Anglo-Saxons were Germanic in origin

Roosevelt and Eisenhower are Dutch or German, no? :shrug:

[Drunken Irishman]

16. Yes, the Roosevelts were Dutch.

The first known member of the Roosevelt family to arrive in the United States was Claes van Rosevelt. He came over from the Netherlands in the 1600s and settled in New York. I'm not sure when Rosevelt turned into Roosevelt, however.

[MonkeyFunk]

17. Yes, they're Dutch or German

form wiki:

Anglo-Saxon is the collective term usually used to describe the ethnically and linguistically related peoples living in the south and east of the island of Great Britain (modern Great Britain/United Kingdom) from around the early 5th century AD to the Norman conquest of 1066.<1>

[silverojo]

70. I don't think Nixon is Irish

But there have been a lot of Presidents who weren't WASPS or Irish. Just check out the names:

Bush: German (from Busche)
Eisenhower: German (from Eisenhauer)
Hoover: German-Swiss (from Huber)
Polk: Scots-Irish, related to Scottish nobility
Roosevelt: Dutch...as indicated by the proper pronunciation :)
Truman: Scots-Irish
Van Buren: Dutch (he spoke English as a second language!)

There was also at least one Welsh president, but I can't remember who it is....

[Dhalgren]

14. What about Washington, Jefferson, and Jackson?

You can't call those "WASP" names...

[Jim Sagle]

21. Umm....actually you CAN...because they ARE.

[Dhalgren]

30. I took this whole thing to be a joke. It is a joke, right?

[Jim Sagle]

36. This whole thread, you mean?

I hope so. I'd hate to think anyone was seriously concerned about this.

[Dhalgren]

38. Yeah, the whole damned thing. I mean, what...who... I mean come on...

[tammywammy]

39. I thought it an interesting question

Since I hadn't thought about it. But I don't think the OP is basing their vote on a name.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

15. O'Bama sounds pretty Irish to me.

(joke)

[XemaSab]

23. His first name was probably like "Bairrach" or something originally

:P

[mac2]

88. Obama

Is a cousin of Cheney's eight times removed. Is that important?

[GlenP]

18. Could be...

But then that's a *BIG* IF.... if you ask me.

Why do you ask?

Is that important to you?

Do you think the country is ready to do that?

Is now the right time?

Is the democratic nominee such a shoe-in that we could try anything right now without fear of losing to continued republican rule?

These are important questions based on your inquiry. Should we even be asking them?

Should Democrats vote for the most ideal candidate to our values, or the most ideal candidate that also has the best chance of winning the general election?

[MonkeyFunk]

25. good lord, are you still here?

[ElizabethDC]

29. Well, it's late on Chrismas Eve eve. The mods are probably nestled all snug in their beds.

:)

[snowbear]

34. Wait a second... isn't it the "eve of Christmas eve"?

... I hope so.. I'm procrastinating with wrapping presents..

[ElizabethDC]

35. Yes, that's why I said "eve" twice. Christmas Eve Eve. Or, the eve of Christmas eve.

Yes, you're correct, and I didn't mean to scare you. :) I haven't wrapped my presents yet, either, and I still have to buy a couple, so I'm also thankful to have another day.

[MonkeyFunk]

42. oh pshaw

they're three-sheets to the wind at the Mod xmas party. The Magistrate is xeroxing his ass to leave on Skinner's desk and GreatAuntofTriplets is shamelessly standing under the mistletoe and grabbing every guy that walks by.

[Dhalgren]

47. I am trying to picture the Magistrate xeroxing his ass...

I...just...can't...do...it...arrrrghhhh

[ElizabethDC]

51. It would probably be easier if we had a picture of TheMag

or of his ass, anyway.

[MonkeyFunk]

58. It's very cute

he's got "Sir" tattooed on his left cheek, and "Ma'am" tattooed on the right. It fits any occasion.

[ElizabethDC]

49. Well then, it sounds like somebody spiked the 'nog again.

It wasn't me! O8)

[snowbear]

60. LOL.. Hey, I want a copy of that xerox!

The Magistrate is one pretty cool dude!

[GlenP]

45. I am. It's STILL a democracy. :-P I hope.

Now perhaps you'd care to take a shot at the questions. These are some of the discussion (no matter how unpleasant) Democrats need to have.

[mac2]

97. Both

Americans in the primary should vote for the candidate who represents their best interest and can win.

[Drunken Irishman]

19. What about Van Buren and Hoover?

[MonkeyFunk]

24. ooh! Van Buren!

Another good one!

[Dhalgren]

41. I can admit now that i was a "Van Buren Boy". I am not proud of it,

but there you are. I was only with them for a couple of months then switched to the Filmore Faction - they were pretty tough, but pretty ineffectual...

[MonkeyFunk]

43. DU musta been crazy then!

[Dhalgren]

44. You have no idea! Let me tell you!

[MonkeyFunk]

50. I didn't get online until

I got active in the Tyler campaign. Was here for a few years, then got knocked off for quite awhile because I made the stupid choice of going with Confederacy Online.

I missed all the fun.

[JohnLocke]

32. You beat me to it! Van Buren was Dutch-American (1st pres not English/Irish/Welsh/Scottish)

[mac2]

20. Aren't you being

insulting? This country had a large population of WASPS therefore they were the leaders. The others were minorities. Ring a bell?

You'd vote for someone just because they weren't a WASP? How about a globalist or Neo Con of any other culture or religion? Is that what you want?

I'm a WASP and proud of my being one. WASPS contributed much to making us a democracy and giving you a good life. It's not perfect but democracy needs your input also. Hate isn't one of the best ones you seem to offer.

[XemaSab]

26. Um... are you shitting me?

Like, honestly. Are you shitting me?

:shrug:

[tammywammy]

28. LOL

That's what I was wondering.

[mac2]

33. Look out

I think that pigeon is aiming for you. Get real!!

[Beacool]

22. I doubt that he will win the nomination,

let alone be elected. Either way, his name definitely does not help him. He has the misfortune to have a middle name which was the last name of a dictator and a last name which sounds almost identical to the first name of the most reviled terrorist in the world.

One of my political science professors used to say that Americans won't vote for president anybody who has a name that is not anglo and easy to pronounce. The exception had been Eisenhower, but he was a war hero. So far he's proven correct, since Ike we've had: Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Bush, Clinton and Bush once more.

[MonkeyFunk]

27. And they ran against

Nixon, Humphrey, McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore and Kerry. One Greek name, the rest anglo-Irish.

That's not a big dataset of head-to-head matches from which to draw a conclusion.

[earthlover]

37. I really don't believe many Americans in november will give a rip about anybody's middle name

Any more than they will care about their kindergarden wishes.

That is just silly.

Now, if Obama was Muslim he would have a problem, just as Romney is having a problem with his Mormonism (but in case some of us have forgotten, Romney is still a contender....)

But Obama is a Christian, and his church is quite liberal. Maybe the fact that his church recognizes gay marriages will be his downfall, but I hope not. I like liberal Christian churches, more power to them.

And Obama is really no relation to Saddam Hussein. Now if he were, this would be a big problem. But during the course of the election, everyone is gonna find out that he is not related and it is just a funny sounding middle name, not unlike millions of Americans who have funny middle names, and only a handful of dingbats will even care what Obama's middle name is, and ALL of them would vote Republican anyway.
So what is the point?

I think the only ones who care about someone's middle name and their kindergarden views are Hillary supporters, and they will vote for the Democratic nominee anyhow.

[mac2]

46. I agree a middle name doesn't bother us

but calling Hillary's supporters those with "kindergarten views" is a bit nasty and not at all true.

I supported her for Senator but won't again.

I won't vote for Hillary because of her politics which I feel aren't good for America. May I say it again...she's a globalist and voted for the Patriot Act renewal. She has failed to call for the impeachment of Bush.

[tammywammy]

48. You supported her for senator? So you're from New York then?

[mac2]

53. From NY?

No not now. And by the way why does that matter?

[tammywammy]

57. Just wondering, you don't have a profile so I had to ask

[GlenP]

54. I think you misunderestimate too many Americans.

Or is that misoverestimate? Damn Bush-speak, it's so hard to nail down.

At any rate, I recall hearing of studies that showed a fair number of voters who are swayed by silly little things as simple as a candidate's facial features.

Most Americans aren't nearly as involved and informed about candidates as those who spend time in political forums and stay up to speed on what's happening in the political realm.

After two elections with Bush getting into office. And one (2004) when people should have already been WELL informed as to what kind of dirt bag they were dealing with in Bush, I take nothing for granted in the American voter. Yes Obama's name WILL play a factor. It may only be a couple percentage points or so, but it could be more (especially when you add on other perceived negatives), and even a couple could swing the election.

[earthlover]

66. I don't think anyone who doesn't like Obama's middle name would vote Dem for anyone!

Let's keep this in perspective. If anyone thought he was related to Saddam, they would find out soon enough. Heck...we are talking about some pretty low lives here.

So I am forced to conclude that the only ones who care about Obama's middle name are Hillary supporters and Republicans.

In any case, Obama will win more from his smile and charisma than he could possibly lose with his middle name.

Give me a break.

This reminds me of people who say they are not prejudiced...but if their daughter was dating a black man, they would have a fit. They would say something like, we don't really care but there are a lot of racists out there and you really shouldn't date him because the racists wouldn't like it.....

Well, the above sounds silly enough. But let's take it the next step. What if their daughter was dating a man with a funny middle name. Would they have a fit? Say something like, we really don't care but there are a lot of Republicans out there who don't like funny middle names .....

What the hell. If the best candidate has a funny middle name are we supposed to throw him/her under the tracks because we don't think the village idiot likes his middle name?

Have we come to this?

[oasis]

76. The polls cannot measure the amount of bigotry that exists in today's America.

There's plenty of it. The latino haters hide behind the issue of illegal immigration. I have never heard such bashing of hispanics prior to 2007. I'm hearing it from folks that I used to respect.

Overt bigotry is now socially unacceptable, and the same folks who use "anti-immigration" for an excuse to bash hispanics, would be reluctant to vote for an african american named Barack Hussien Obama.

[mac2]

90. Bashing of Hispanics?

Americans don't bash legal Hispanic citizens only illegals. Don't make it overt bigotry when it is not.

In our area we have more than illegal Hispanics. We have Chinese, Indian, Russian, Polish, Baltic country, etc.

The discussion is mainly about Hispanics by the media. The American people are concerned about the lawlessness of drugs and illegal entry. Mexico even sends it's military across the boader to fight our troops and border people.

The RW media made the discussion of "Hussien" not Americans. It's to distract from his voting record,lack of experience, and his real agenda for the country. Americans are too smart to get caught up in the propaganda. Are you?

[Beacool]

64. You're wrong. There are plenty of people who DO care about his name.

Personally, I couldn't care less even if he were Muslim. I don't think that religion should matter. I won't vote for the guy, but it's not because of his name or whether he attends church. Having said that, if you think that only Hillary supporters will bring this up in the GE, then you're being naive. Take a quick gander at the various conservative blogs and see how they view this issue.

[earthlover]

72. Your candidate's campaign has maligned Muslims as well as Obama

By spreading the rumors that he is Muslim in a negative way, this of course is a smack in the face to every Muslim in America. Also a totally off track "slam" of Obama.

You can say you don't care personally if he is a Muslim, but where is your spirit of standing up for our own (our own=Democrats). You just play along, saying you don't see anything wrong with being Muslim, but we better not nominate someone like that because the Republicans will not like it.

Bullshit!

I am tired of so-called Democrats afraid to even breathe in public without the permission of the Republicans! Have we stooped so low that we would not even nominate someone for president who has a funny middle name because we think the big bad wolf would make fun of it? Is this substance?

The only ones who will be making an issue of Obama's middle name are the degenerate low lives out there and Hillary supporters. The Hillary supporters will vote for Obama in the general election. The degenerates will not vote for Hillary, Obama, Biden, Edwards, or any Democrat anyway.

[Beacool]

85. Don't put words in my mouth!

I never said not to vote for the guy because the Republicans will slam him for his name.

Where's my Democratic spirit? Please, coming from a site where quite a few posters vilify Hillary, it's too funny!

For the record, I don't hate Obama. I just don't think that he's qualified to be president in 2008. That's my opinion and I don't have any intention of changing it.

[GlenP]

74. Right.

Personally I don't care if he's black, although that would be one small reason I wouldn't vote for him in the primary (Actually I think his name is more damning to be electable).

If it came down to two absolutely identical in every single possible way candidates for the Democratic nomination, I would NOT vote for Obama because he's black. And that is simply because of the sad reality that it really WOULD put him at a disadvantage in the general election.

Ultimately it's about nominating a candidate that stands the best chance to win the general election. And in 2008 America, being black is STILL a disadvantage. And no, that does NOT make me a racist for pointing that out, or factoring that into my calculations on who to cast my nominating vote for. Though again, I think it's not the biggest of his particular obstacles.

Now if Obama were leagues beyond any of the other Democrats as far as my values and principles go, then I'd vote for him regardless. That's not currently the case, so I will go for the one who most holds my values, can do the job effectively, and stands a good chance of winning in November (and will not be a wasted primary vote. Sorry can't vote Kucinich even though he comes closest to my values, unless he like runs away with the early primaries).

On the other hand, if it came down to two absolutely identical in every single possible way candidates in the general election, I would vote for the one who's black, simply because of the symbolic importance of electing a racial minority as president. Of course they'd both have to be Democrats (which can't happen in our current system).

[mac2]

40. Easy to pronounce?

A name easy to pronounce like Hitler?

No up until recently they are the majority in this country. In an election people feared control by minorities who might not have our best interests at heart (religious wars, etc.). Names like Kucinich do have a chance if he were a globalist and war monger.

You have a great chance of being a leader if you went to Yale. Being a Anglo just won't do it today. You have to be a globalist..don't you get it?

What about their politics? What is in a name anyway? Are you feeling sorry for yourself not being a Anglo? Oh please....so it aint so in America! Go to Yale!

[Beacool]

69. Last time I checked Hitler wasn't a US president...........

:crazy:

[mac2]

78. I'm aware of that.

We were talking about political leaders who are white men. He was a sort of President of Germany and had very bad politics.

[GlenP]

61. THANK YOU!

I get the feeling many here would rather just stick their head in the sand on this issue.

Why is it that after two elections where Bush was given enough votes to get within stealing distance of the win, people STILL think that the average American votes entirely with their rational minds?

The fact of the matter is, is that WAY TOO MANY Americans still have their votes swayed by the most inane of reasons.

[Beacool]

68. I was just quoting one of my political science professors.

Maybe Obama will break the mold, but I don't see him winning in 2008. I still think that when the chips are down, experience will win out over good oratory but little substance.

[mac2]

31. Obama's politics need to be discussed..

His politics are not acceptable to many Americans. We in his home state of Illinois are very disappointed since he betrayed us since he went to Congress. He's no Democrat. He voted for many of Bush's agency heads and agenda for war.

You can't bully us into voting for him just because he isn't an Anglo. He's a globalist and a war monger. He believes in the World Unions. He renewed the Patriot Act. Now is that in the same room as Martin Luther King beliefs for his people or America?

He also supports Faith Based funding which is unconstitutional. He's a religious crony for votes from the Black clergy and churches.

I also think he's a opportunist. He does give great speeches. I took exception to his "fear" speech about the "terrorists" on CSPAN. He's no Roosevelt or King that's for sure. He carries fear in his back pocket for power.

We need better leadership than someone who brings us war and fear. We already have that in DC today. We want change. We said so in the 2004 election but they (and he) ignore us.

Obama and Clinton have failed to call for the impeachment of Bush. Apparently they think he's OK for America regardless of what he's done to us and the world.

[Adelante]

77. I thought Clinton was your Senator?

"I supported her for Senator but won't again."

[Fried Bread]

52. It would be the first name to end in a pronounced vowel.

edit: pronounced

[ElizabethDC]

55. That's not true

Monroe, Filmore, Pierce, Coolidge, Kennedy (kinda).

[Fried Bread]

59. I'll clarify then.

'pronounced vowel'

[ElizabethDC]

62. What about Mon-rOH and Kenned-EE?

[Fried Bread]

63. Well, I don't consider Kennedy's "y" to be a vowel

Although maybe it technically is. And Monroe is a classic WASP name, but it does end with a vowel sound, so you've got me there. I have no retort on that, but I only point out that Monroe is a common English kind of name, whereas the 'pronounced' vowel endings I speak of are common with Italian (Giuliani), Polish (Pulaski etc.), African, and some kind of German names (e.g. names with '-ke' endings).

[ElizabethDC]

65. I was always taught that Y was a vowel when it is pronounced like an E

but there may be varying interpretations of that.

I think there are probably plenty of Anglo-Saxon names that end in a vowel sound - my last name is Scotch-Irish, and it ends in a pronounced vowel. Although the more I think about it, most Anglo-Saxon names that I can think of don't end in a vowel.

But I don't mean to give you a tough time - I was just surprised to hear that no other presidents' names had ended in vowels, so I looked it up.

[mac2]

67. Governor of Illinois Blagojevich

has a very hard name to pronouce and spell but was elected two terms. He ran as a Progressive Democrat.

[Fried Bread]

71. There're plenty of examples of LOCAL politicians winning w/odd names.

Illinois has the largest number of people with polish ancestry in the nation. Chicago also has a lot of Russian, Serbian and other immigrants. Would Blagojevich win a national election? That's a different question.

[Nailzberg]

75. Not these days. But not because of his name.

His career is over cause he alienated his father-in-law and ended up a wounded prey among the sharks that are the old school IL dem powerbrokers. Blags was too clueless to navigate IL politics without help, and ended up aligning himself with the only people left, who happened to be the more corrupt than the Dems he slighted. His ass belongs to Patrick Fitzgerald.

[mac2]

79. The Governor of Illinois a nobody?

The governor of Illinois is a very powerful position not a "local no body". Illinois has the budget of a European nation.

Chicago is the third largest city in the nation.

Chicago has a large population of Polish, Serbs, etc.. The rest of the state no. The subrubs are full of Germans ancestory, etc.

Although it is mainly a "Blue State" Blagojevich won't be picked to run for President by the DLC because he is a Progressive Democrat.

[Fried Bread]

82. Where did I call him a nobody?

My point is that Illinois' demographics are noticeably different from a majority of the country.

[mac2]

93. Illinois is a Blue State now

but not much different than the others. It is diverse because of it's large city but not the rest of the state. The whole state is not liberal. The state has had both Democratic and Republican governors.

[Fried Bread]

94. You're responding to an argument I didn't make.

Blagojevich is certainly a viable politician; however I was speaking to ethnic surnames and politics, and in Illinois the demogaphics are such that German, Polish, Serbian, Czech and other kinds of last names are rather common. Whereas in say, Missouri, they are not.

[mac2]

95. My point is that many parts of

Illinois are much like Missouri. Outside the city there are common names not just hard ones to spell and pronounce.

[earthlover]

73. Good thing he didn't run against Hillary!

Hillary fans would make fun of his middle name and tell us that there are lots of folks out there who would not vote for someone with a name like that. UGH....

[ElizabethDC]

80. . . .

:eyes:

Your post is offensive on so many levels, but I think you probably intended it to be.

Meanwhile, as we all know, Hillary's supporters are all a bunch of racist bogeymen. And we eat babies for breakfast, too!

[mac2]

91. Blagojevich

is a Greek. His father-in-law and Fitzgerald tried to ruin him. The RW local media is after him all the time. We'll see if the people see through that.

Why hasn't Fitzgerald gone after Dennis Hastert and his IL land deal? He used his position to profit big time off the tax payers. Not a word about that in the local media though. Me smells a rat.

[mac2]

81. Presidents in the past were mostly WASPS?

Here's the 2000 Census to explain it with statistics.

You wonder why so many American Presidents have been WASPS? Also required are college graduates which is not on this census list. America has a majority of whites and most are Protestant. It is changing with immigration.

Up until recently most WASPS were good leaders who believed in democracy and the Constitution. I doubt Hoover, who was one of the worst Presidents, would have done or gotten away with the things this President has today.

Yes...minority groups have a long way to go in our democracy. I'm for that. America is better than any other country regarding their wealth and rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Census%2C_2000 Census 2000 by race.

75.1% White or Caucasian, 2.3% Afro-American, 12.5% Hispanic of all races, 3.6 Asian, 2.4% multi-racial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States Demography of the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States#Religious_affiliation Religious affiliation in 2000.

It is shocking to me to see how No-religion has 14% population but are not represented at all in Congress or the discussion. 14% is the number of all Blacks or Hispanics not having a voice or representation in our government agenda. Never has been a No-religion leader as President of America. Most have been Christians.

As you add up the Protestant religious groups you will see they are the largest majority. Jewish religious groups are 1.8% of the population. They and Afro-Americans numbering 12.3% of the population have more representation than other groups. Especially when you consider their numbers in Congress and the government compared to their population.

It is easy to think minority numbers of any group are more than they are when you live in an area where the population of them is greatest. Example: City of Chicago. More Afro-Americans are in cities than suburbs, etc. Many neighborhoods are all Afro-American. But the whole state of Illinois is mostly white population.

It has always amazed me when some groups feel they are 50% of the population when they are more like 12.3%. So one Anglo representative, one AFro-American, and one Asian is not proper representation.

Plain numbers explain why there has never been a President from the minority groups.

If a leader is acceptable to all regarding their politics regardless of party, race, religion, etc. they would win. The minorities have to have the other groups agree with them to have a block of votes. It can't be done alone. They need other races and other religions to move forward

[Bullet1987]

86. Is Lewis a WASP name?

[mac2]

89. Is Lewis Protestant?

Don't really know. WASP is white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant.

[mac2]

92. Afro American % in US

Census 2000 Afro-American population is 12.3% not as listed above at 2.3%. Sorry my typing is so bad.

[Catherine Vincent]

96. O'Bama?