We cannot have a candidate with no understanding of foreign affairs

[question everything]

The irony. I have been thinking of posting this for the past few weeks, but was not sure when to post it.

I could imaging something happening just before the general elections, and it did not have to be a terrorist attack. Just some instability in Pakistan, or North Korea, Liberia, Venezuela, Kosovo - ready to declare independence but Serbia is objecting and the wimpy EU does not want to take a stand.

And our candidate mumbles something like: we call on all sides to use restraint.

And we can see McCain sailing into the White House.

And the candidates who do understand foreign policy, who have traveled the globe, met with leaders and regular folks of different cultures, who can see them threw a non-western prism are (in alphabetical order) Biden, Clinton, Dodd and Richardson.

[Evergreen Emerald]

1. I agree.

[BridgeTheGap]

2. You mean, like the president we have now?

He's the poster boy for "I don't give a shit about foreign affairs - well, other than invading other countries that I know very little about."

[C_U_L8R]

3. Speaking of no understanding of foreign affairs

Mittens just popped up to blame this all on global jihadism.

[youthere]

5. LOL..Global jihadism...is there NOTHING it can't do?

Monday my bra strap broke and I thought...Damn those global jihadists!

[medicswife]

6. We need Biden badly

I predict that Biden has already spoken with Musharraf. Let's see if I'm right or wrong. But, I'm willing to bet they've been on the phone together already this morning.

[youthere]

7. You got that right. Biden is EXACTLY what we need.

He holds a presser today at noon (EST) and I'm betting by 1 the other candidates are repeating Biden.

[1corona4u]

8. Yep, especially one in particular......

[medicswife]

10. YUP!

While I was watching the comments made by other candidates I was thinking, "Joe, don't talk to them yet, let them get on the record with having nothing of substance to say, because otherwise they are going to try to take your words as their own."

I got a little irritated with Dodd...he made it sound like he was the one who brought up Pakistan in recent debates.

[TwilightGardener]

18. Oh fer God's sake. The other candidates can speak about Pakistan

quite knowledgably without Joe's help. This hero worship of him is just bizarre. "Save us, Joe Biden, you're our only hope!"

[medicswife]

22. It's not bizarre

when you are living through the repercussions of George Bush's idiotic foreign policy on a daily basis. My husband is in Iraq for his second fifteen month deployment and I'm here at home with our four kids and no family nearby to provide support. Biden is the only candidate with superlative knowledge and experience on foreign policy. I'm not saying that the other candidates know nothing, but Joe knows more and has been right time after time after time.

[TwilightGardener]

25. Joe voted for the war. 'Nuff said. Politics aside, hope your husband stays safe, and

that you have a support system of some sort--I've been where you are, and it's tough, I know.

[medicswife]

29. Yeah, but

he's also making sure that guys like my husband get the equipment that they need. And he didn't vote for it lightly, his own son is going to be deployed in about a month.

[TwilightGardener]

35. Agreed, Joe has done some excellent work on the MRAPS ( I think that's what they're called).

[medicswife]

39. Yeah, that's what they're called.

And he's taken massive amounts of heat because he refused to vote against funding. He knows that any votes like that are just going to get vetoed and then filibustered, so he's been fighting like hell to make sure that as long as our guys are over there, they will have what they need.

[youthere]

4. Amen.

[Bitwit1234]

9. Oh and saint of Illinois understands everything there is to know

about everything there is to know. Damn isn't it wonderful to be perfect especially if you come from Illinois.

[TwilightGardener]

11. Why do people attribute foreign policy knowledge to McCain? He never

sat on the Foreign Relations Committee, as far as I know. What makes him any more of an expert than Hillary, or Obama, or Edwards?

[medicswife]

13. He's been around the bend

His long military career qualifies him on matters of foreign policy.

[TwilightGardener]

15. No, it doesn't. My husband is a career Air Force officer, served overseas

on many occasions, and knows SQUAT about foreign policy.

[medicswife]

24. Did your husband go to war?

When McCain was in the Service, it was a time of war, just like it is now. How you can say that McCain's time in the military doesn't give him knowledge of foreign policy is beyond me.

[medicswife]

31. Sorry for being grumpy

It's already been a long day here. I apologize for coming across the way I am. I'm worried sick about my husband, he's in the most volatile part of Iraq right now, and he's convoying today. I want to throw up. I just get so mad when people ignore or marginalize candidates that are really good like Biden and Dodd. I didn't say Dodd was an idiot or anything like that, or that they can't talk about Pakistan, I just said it was a little bit disingenuous of him to make it sound like he's the one who brought up Pakistan when it was definitely Biden that did.

[TwilightGardener]

41. I didn't think you were grumpy, and I didn't take offense--

nothing to apologize for, you're just advocating for your candidate, and I'm advocating for mine! I do hope that you have some friends to take your kids off your hands, or someone to call--my husband fortunately didn't spend much time in Iraq when he deployed, he was mostly in Kuwait and Qatar, and even without the constant worry for his safety, the separations were sometimes difficult, especially with kids and maintaining a household and working. If you need someone, the base usually has Family Support Services to help, and they sometimes offer child-care services so that you can nap or go to a salon or shopping--anything to give you a break.

[medicswife]

46. Yeah, they have those twice a month

lol and we've missed the last two because the kids have been sick. Oh, and lol, if you had talked to me before, you would have thought man, Mrs. J is in a BAD mood today! Usually I'm all chipper and don't have anything trite to say.

[TwilightGardener]

49. Well, you're the nicest "grump" I've ever seen on a message board, then!

:pals:

[medicswife]

50. Thanks. :) n/t

[question everything]

47. How hard this must be for you

I hope that coming to DU and expressing your concerns can help.

And how brave of your husband to be there to help save lives.

[medicswife]

52. We are so against this war

And that is how my husband is looking at it. His mission is to keep his fellow soldiers alive and to try to give the Iraqi people a glimpse of what good American's are like. He was fundamental in helping to save the life of a 6 year old Iraqi boy, and I am so proud of him for what he's doing... to make sure that our family has bread on the table.

[Nailzberg]

23. I think you're partially right.

And I think the other reply to you is also partially right. Merely being in the military, even as an officer, doesn't automatically qualify someone as a foreign affairs expert.

But, I imagine his military experience has guided his many years in congress, made him pay more attention to resolutions and bills that may affect foreign affairs and the military. Not that he's always right about them, but I do tend to believe he leads the GOP candidates in the sphere of foreign policy. The other just tend to say what they think is tough.

[medicswife]

28. Thanks, that's what I was trying to say.

I haven't had enough coffee this morning and my husband is on a convoy in Iraq today and I'm tense and wound tight. Sorry for being testy.

I think I just need a hug.

[Nailzberg]

32. There ya go.

:donut: and a :hug:

[medicswife]

38. You know you're having a bad day

when virtual coffee and donuts and a virtual hug make you cry.

[BeyondGeography]

12. Nice try...Obama is looking pretty smart about Pakistan right now

from his then-maligned-by-people-who-oppose Obama speech of August 1:

"As President, I would make the hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid to Pakistan conditional, and I would make our conditions clear: Pakistan must make substantial progress in closing down the training camps, evicting foreign fighters, and preventing the Taliban from using Pakistan as a staging area for attacks in Afghanistan.

I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will.

And Pakistan needs more than F-16s to combat extremism. As the Pakistani government increases investment in secular education to counter radical madrasas, my Administration will increase America's commitment. We must help Pakistan invest in the provinces along the Afghan border, so that the extremists' program of hate is met with one of hope. And we must not turn a blind eye to elections that are neither free nor fair -- our goal is not simply an ally in Pakistan, it is a democratic ally.

Beyond Pakistan, there is a core of terrorists -- probably in the tens of thousands -- who have made their choice to attack America. So the second step in my strategy will be to build our capacity and our partnerships to track down, capture or kill terrorists around the world, and to deny them the world's most dangerous weapons."

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/08/01/remarks_of_senator_obama_the_w_1.php

[Caseman]

17. No, Obama would scare me if he was left to the job...

...Experience does matter in this situation, and Obama, no matter how much you try to spin it, has little compared to Biden.

[TwilightGardener]

19. Biden of the Iraq partitioning scheme that pissed off most Iraqis?

Biden that voted for the IWR? Yeah, good experience there.

[Caseman]

26. You mean that "partitioning" scheme that saved Bosnia?..

...What an awful idea. Obviously, Iraq is perfect the way it is now. Let's withdraw! You mean the IWR that Bush passed using false evidence and intelligence? Stupid Biden! He should have known that the CIA and President were lying to him. You're right. Obviously, Obama, using his "potent" years in the Senate, will be most respected by the outside world. I know you can't tell, but I'm really, really, stressing my sarcasm.

[Froward69]

27. Iraqi's are pissed

Because of bushes building walls akin to Israel. Having states with a centeralized government is what their constitution calls for. the same as... :sarcasm: oh where was that in NORTH AMERICA... :sarcasm: HERE, just like the UNITED STATES!

damn actually read once and awhile. okey dokey???

[TwilightGardener]

33. I didn't think the resolution was a good idea, and I still don't. It's not up to

us to decide how they should organize themselves--more American hubris. They may very well decide to do it on their own, but to pass an AMERICAN resolution concerning the set-up of the IRAQI state is not helpful.

[Froward69]

48. it only went along

WITH their OWN constitution. actually endorsing it.

[TwilightGardener]

56. Then what was the point? They can certainly follow whichever model they choose, without

our need to "endorse" anything. Is it any wonder that they might bristle over our attempts, once again, to ignore the fact that they are a sovereign nation with the capacity to determine their own future? We need to get our footprint, and our influence, out of Iraq.

[Froward69]

58. JOE BIDEN and I

Agree with that... " We need to get our footprint, and our influence, out of Iraq."

stop preaching to the choir. ITB says just that.

[medicswife]

37. The Iraqis like his plan

that's first hand knowledge speaking. They are basically implementing it on the local levels right now and that is what is helping with the increase in security.

What do you think is the right thing to do? What plan do you advocate?

[TwilightGardener]

43. I heard that many Iraqis did not like the plan, because they were/are struggling

to keep a central government together (which WE intially advocated) and didn't appreciate any attempts to undermine it. My objection to it is that Iraq's design is not of our choosing--the Iraqi people can, and should, organize themselves as they see fit, without our interference. They are not children, and they are not our possession. It is not up to us--we've imposed our will enough on these people.

[medicswife]

55. Basically, what is happening now

is that in order to stop a lot of the sectarian violence, the Iraqis are now starting to separate themselves. They are also forming stronger LOCAL and PROVINCIAL governments which more than any partioning is the heart and soul of the Biden plan. The locals have realized that the Central Government is not doing anything except being corrupt and bickering amongst themselves and so they've decided that it's best for them to start working on solving the problems themselves.

[Adelante]

14. Obama has a deep understanding of foreign affairs,

has traveled the globe, met with leaders and regular folks of different cultures, can see them through a non-western prism

AND saw the Iraq War Resolution for what it was.

With all due respect to the other candidates you named and their supporters.

[TwilightGardener]

16. Yep--you got it. I trust Obama's judgment in situations like this.

[NCarolinawoman]

42. WesDem, I have read that Obama has never even been to Europe.

He holds some chairmanship of a committee dealing with Europe and NATO and has never held the first meeting.

That is the problem when a first term Senator starts off campaigning for President right away. Their specialty becomes campaigning and speechifying. I was burned by this experience with my AWOL former Senator Edwards.

[chascarrillo]

53. He's been to Europe. He's held hearings.

Nice try.

[dkf]

20. Methinks saying NO to the IWR shows a very good understanding of

foreign affairs. Saying YES showed ignorance. In fact, saying YES shows that George Bush outsmart you. That is embarassing.

[question everything]

45. Except, he was not in any official capacity to influence it

one way or the other.

There have been many banners on yards here, objecting the war, so what?

I am talking traveling the globe in an official capacity, as representing this country - more or less - as privy to confidential memos gain from serving on a Congressional committee.

The bottom line is, we are talking about how the voters feel.

In 2002 most voters did support the war, believing that Iraq, indeed, was supporting terrorism. Believing intelligence reports. Most voters do not go around seeing conspiracy around every corner.

And if there is an instability in a foreign place, the voters will move war and terrorism to the top of their concerns, replacing economy as it has been recently.

And McCain will appear as the wise statement who has been around and who knows what he is talking about. Certainly more than Huckabee, Romney or Guiliani.

[zulchzulu]

21. Does an "understanding of foreign affairs" include voting for the wrong goddamn war?

If the "understanding of foreign affairs" was so legitimate and fool-proof, why were Clinton, Dodd, Biden and Edwards played for fools?

You also erroniously missed mentioning that Obama has also met leaders in the Ukraine, Kuwait, Israel, Chad, Dubai, Palestine, Azerbijan and other countries as well. Gee, I wonder why...

:shrug:

[rAVES]

34. They wanted the war.. it is us who are being played for fools.

[Nailzberg]

30. Obama would know exactly what to do in this situtation.

Call Joe Biden

[jillan]

36. We need someone that does not need to call their advisors on everything.

Things are too f-d up in this world.

[madmom]

40. correct me if I'm wrong and I'm sure you will, but I think it's very easy for

Obama to say he was against the IWR, he didn't have to go on record and vote on it, not like he would because then people would know where he stood on a major issue.You can't vote present when you're prez, that's my biggest objection to him.

[Nailzberg]

44. That line of criticism has always bothered me.

I find it a poor analogy. The president doesn't vote on bills. But what the president CAN do is sign a bill (yay), veto a bill (nay), or put it in his pocket (present).

Furthermore, the IL general assembly rules are different than the US congress, it's like comparing the NFL and arena football. There are differences in the rules, so there are differences in the strategies.

[madmom]

51. this may be true but if he wants people to trust in him he has to take a stand on something...

the IL rules are one thing yes but how do we know what he will do in situations like this, he's always avoids taking a stand on critical issues.Just because he CAN do it doesn't mean he should.IMO

[Nailzberg]

60. I guess his present votes don't bother me that much.

I did a lot of research on his voting record in '03. Spending all that time reading roll calls, bills, and floor transcripts, I feel very comfortable knowing what votes he made, or did not make, while serving in the state senate. Working and living in Springfield gave me a good idea of how he was seen by other members and their staff, also.


I don't think present votes in the IL GA indicate Obama would duck issues as President. High school basketball has no shot clock in IL, so point guards will hold onto the ball for minutes without a shot to run down the clock. Does that mean that player won't be able to pass or shoot when he gets to college? No, it just means they understood and used an effective strategy within the construct of the game. If I felt Obama couldn't handle the pressure, he wouldn't be my number two.

I also understand that most of my experience with Obama is personal knowledge, so I don't expect you to take me for my word and support him, just cause I say so. I'm merely explaining were I'm coming from.

[murbley40]

54. Point made.

Yes, indeedy, they certainly are different.

[Laelth]

57. The chimp was nearly elected ... twice.

If anything, that proves most Americans could care less whether the person they vote for has any knowledge of international affairs.

I simply don't find this a compelling reason to support one candidate rather than another.

-Laelth

[question everything]

62. In 2000 and in 1992 foreign policy was not a major issue

after all, the Soviet Union was gone.

And in 2004, he was the incumbent and Kerry did not run the best campaign that he should have, could have - take your pick.

In 2004 war and terror were still an important issue and we did not know how to handle this. Look at Congress - we still don't know how to handle this, attacking the war and the spending without attacking "our men and women." I think that this slogan has replaced the "for the children" one.

[killbotfactory]

59. Yes, let's nominate someone who supported the Iraq war

Which was a gigantic distraction from our fight against terrorists in the Pakistan/Afghanistan region!

Yes! BRILLIANT!

[kentuck]

61. This is the new Republican mantra...

Like manna from Heaven.

We have to elect someone who knows how to fight the "war on terrorism". Like Guiliani, or McCain, or Hillary. They have been so successful, haven't they? Yes, we need someone to carry on the Bush Policy like we another hole in the head.