Obama has just floated the idea of imposing some penalty on people who fail to sign up for health in

[rodeodance]

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/30/free-to-choose-at-a-price/

Free to choose — at a price? (by Paul Krugman)
I didn’t watch Russert — I almost never do — but apparently Barack Obama has just floated the idea of imposing some penalty on people who fail to sign up for health insurance. If he’s serious, and the penalty is sufficient to deter free riding, great. I don’t care what you call the measure that makes universal health care work, as long as it gets the job done.

[Submariner]

1. Romney floated that mandatory insurance here in Mass

The (Massachusetts) Commonwealth Connection Health Insurnace scam would cost me a minimum of $4K/yr with a $4K annual deductible. I told the state to shove their insurance scam, and that I will no longer file a state income tax return so as to avoid the up to $2K/yr penalty.

In essence, for my own long-term economic survival, Romney (an out-of-stater) has put me in a position that I have to break the law (state tax laws) to survive.

If Obama has the same idea, he can kiss his candidacy goodbye.

[K Gardner]

2. That is NOT what he said! He said that is why he is NOT imposing mandates..

Because under Romney's plan in Mass., people are getting fined for not being able to afford insurance and thats the last thing people who can't afford insurance need. If you don't have a link or a direct quote, why post shit like this?? And yes, I watched it.

[DemKR]

7. no...he did say it n/t

[sandnsea]

38. EDWARDS proposes penalties

Jesus fuck these people will just say any damn thing.

[sandnsea]

39. dupe

[zanne]

3. That is TOTAL BS and you know it.

"floated"? That's a rumormonger's word. Did he say it or not?

[DemKR]

8. he is considering the idea n/t

[Usrename]

11. It's not BS. He said it. He floated the idea on MTP. We all saw it.

crikey!

[DemKR]

12. and reality sets in

[zanne]

21. Please define "floated" for me.

If you were a journalist, you'd be fired after making a statement like that. "Floated"? Do you realize that EVERY candidate can be said to have "floated" something in the past year? It's meant to be provocative, not truthful.

[Usrename]

41. It means he first mentioned it on MTP, a trial balloon, if you like.

It was in that interview that he first "proposed" or "floated" the idea.

I don't know why you think anyone would get fired for that kind of language. :shrug: It isn't a derogatory usage.


5. To offer for consideration; suggest: floated my idea to the committee.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/float

[Armstead]

4. He basically said there might be a built-in financial incentive to sign up on time

He said the rate structure could be set so those who sign up early pay less than those who sign up later.

That could be construed as eitehr a penalty or an incentive, depending on how you look at it.

[Submariner]

10. It's called "EXTORTION" n/t

[DemKR]

14. america cant roll the dice on barack

[NYCGirl]

27. Yes. Mandated payments are extortion. NT

[DemKR]

5. K&R

[DemKR]

6. shocks me

[bullimiami]

9. i despise the insurance vampires and screw anyone who supports

the current corrupt system. especially making in even more mandatory to give them money.

we all pay into medicare already, the only decent thing to do is increase the medicare taxes and provide single payer to everyone.

[killbotfactory]

13. yep

"we all pay into medicare already, the only decent thing to do is increase the medicare taxes and provide single payer to everyone."

But that makes too much sense, it'll never work. :sarcasm:

[DemKR]

15. obama is OWNED By health industry n/t

[Andy823]

20. I agree, but

Then again so is Hillary! :evilgrin:

[bunnies]

16. It was a penalty for those who dont sign up UNTIL THEY'RE SICK.

I saw the interview. geebus.

[Usrename]

18. So he is advocating penalties for those who don't sign up.

geebus.

[NYCGirl]

19. Yes, those who don't sign up — UNTIL THEY'RE SICK. NT

[adapa]

23. so if someone can't afford $9500/year premiums, they get a penetly?

if they get sick?

[Cameron27]

24. I have to read through this carefully,

but I'm beginning to get a chill.

[NYCGirl]

25. Where do you get that number? If they do not sign up, then get sick and want

to take advantage of the healthcare plan, they may have to pay a premium — no one has said yet how much.

[bunnies]

26. If they wait to get insurance until they find out they need surgery...

they will get a penalty. If they signed up before that, they will not.

[adapa]

30. #'s

I currently pay $12,000 per year for health insurance.
If I subtract $2500 from that I end up paying $9500 per year.
If I didn't have insurance as many of my friends do not, & wait to get sick then I would have to pay the $9500 + a penalty.
My point it that a $2500 bandaid is not enough help. My insurance cost has gone up by close to 400% in 11 years, from $300/month to just under $1200/month.

[bunnies]

33. I dont even have health insurance.

So I totally understand what you mean. Especially since I have severe tendinosis in my right arm. I need surgery but I cant afford it, nor can I afford the insurance to get it. It would be a pre-existing condition now anyway.

Im not convinced that Obamas plan would make it affordable for me... but at least he's not going to force me to buy something I cant afford. Plus, I have to work for myself from home now... again due to my arm... so I cant rely on an employer to help.

I think only DK's plan would help me.

[madrchsod]

35. i`ve been in the same situation

the only plan that`s worth discussing is dennis`s. everyone else`s plan is insuring the insurance companies

[Usrename]

42. So are they going to be fined for not signing up for the plan?

Or are they going to fined because they get sick?

I don't know which is better, when you think about it.

[adapa]

17. the quote & link to transcript

"My attitude is, we are going to make sure that we reduce costs for families who don't have health care, but also people who do have healthcare and are desperately needing some price relief. And we are going to reduce costs by about $2500 per family.

If it turns out that there are still people left over who are not purchasing healthcare, one way of avoiding them waiting till they get sick is to charge a penalty if they try to sign up later so that they have an incentive to sign up immediately.
MR. RUSSERT: Which is a quasi-mandate.

SEN. OBAMA: But--well, no, it's not a quasi-mandate because what happens then is we are not going around trying to fine people who can't afford healthcare, and that's what's happening in Massachusetts right now. They've already had to exempt 20 percent of the uninsured, and you're reading stories about people who didn't have healthcare, still can't afford the premiums on the subsidized healthcare, but now are also paying a fine. That I don't think is providing a relief to the American people. We need to make health care affordable. That's what my plan does. And The Washington Post itself said, for the Clinton campaign to try to find an individual who wanted healthcare and could not get it under the Obama administration would be very difficult because that person probably does not exist. If you want healthcare under my plan, you will be able to get it, it will be affordable, and it will be of the high quality."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22409176/page/5/

Apparently Obama thinks by reducing the health care cost by $2,500 will make it affordable. I don't know about anyone else but my health care premiums are closer to $12,000 per year not counting Out-of-pocket expenses. I guess $9,500 is now considered 'affordable'

[zulchzulu]

22. Well, if anything, it's good to see Krugman figuring out with healthcare insurance mandates are

He has yet to do a column about how individual mandates would happen (nicely) with healthcare insurance.

Bring it, Paul.

[hayu_lol]

29. Obama is talking out of his own wallet again...

Expanding medicare to cover everyone is the way to go. That would easily give us the single payor we seek.

Hillary will come around to this, as a matter of fact she has already talked about how long it might take to fully implement.

Sure, taxes would rise, but the amount of rise in taxes would not amount to what we would pay the insurance companies to act as health providers/middlemen.

Wonder how people making $20K/$30K would come out under Obama's newest bright idea.

[sandnsea]

40. Check this out zulch

Edwards doesn't support mandates until AFTER all the other health reforms have been enacted, which is the exact same thing Obama has said. Krugman has out and out lied about all this mandate bullshit.

"Once these steps have been taken, requiring all American residents to get insurance."
http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/health-care/

[Lerkfish]

28. well, just shows how clinton's, obama's and edward's health plans are flawed

because they all have some mandatory subscription portion and they all DEPEND on the insurance companies to determine when or if people get the care they need.
Kucinich's plan is better.

[zanne]

31. Obama's plan does not depend on private insurers. Stop lying.

IF people are satisfied with their current insurance choice, they CAN keep it, but it's going to be a PUBLIC PLAN. Get your facts straight before you start spewing lies.

[Lerkfish]

32. directly from his plan:

The Obama plan will guarantee coverage for every American through partnerships among employers, private health plans, the federal government, and the states. The plan both builds on and improves our current insurance system, which most Americans continue to rely upon, and leaves Medicare intact for older and disabled Americans. Under the Obama plan, Americans will be able to maintain their current coverage if they choose to, and will see the quality of their health care improve and their costs go down. The Obama plan also addresses the large gaps in coverage that leave 47 million Americans uninsured. Specifically, the Obama plan will: (1) establish a new public insurance program, available to Americans who neither qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP nor have access to insurance through their employers, as well as to small businesses that want to offer insurance to their employees; (2) create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help Americans and businesses that want to purchase private health insurance directly; (3) require all employers to contribute towards health coverage for their employees or towards the cost of the public plan ; (4) mandate all children have health care coverage; (5) expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs; and (6) allow flexibility for state health reform plans. (1) O BAMA ’ S P LAN TO C OVER THE U NINSURED . Obama will make available a new national health plan which will give individuals the choice to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to federal employees. The new public plan will be open to individuals without access to group coverage through their workplace or current public programs. It will also be available to people who are self-employed and small businesses that want to offer insurance to their employees. The plan will have the following features: Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away FROM ANY INSURANCE PLAN because of illness or pre-existing conditions. Comprehensive benefits.
-------------
as I said, it still relies heavily on insurance companies, and it that way it will always be flawed. As long as insurance companies DECIDE what kind of and what quality of care people receive, it is still letting the foxes guard the henhouse.

The only viable plan is TRUE socialized medicine, where the DOCTORS determine what care patients need.

I'm not spewing lies at all. I'm stating my opinion of his plan, and saying all three are inherently flawed unless or until they eliminate insurers as the deciders on quality of health care.

[zanne]

36. It states that people can CHOOSE between private and public. nt

[Lerkfish]

37. you're intentionally missing my point

but thats ok

[madrchsod]

34. does it really matter what he said?

hillary`s plan should be the one we should discuss because she is the clear winner in the national polls. i just read where her lead is 19+%....

so what is hillary`s plan compared to obama`s or anyone else's....oh i`m not including dennis`s because his is the best