Why does Biden get a free pass on the IWR vote?

[LSK]

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

[acmavm]

1. Good question!

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. Everyone seems to but Clinton. She has extra culpability for some reason

backwards and in high-heels.

[aquart]

14. For me, it's because she's MY senator.

Both she and Schumer broke my heart that day. I didn't care about how other people voted. But these people were MY representation and they failed me miserably.

My other reason is that, on looking at Hillary's votes, I believe she took Schumer's advice on this. I suspect that they thought the senators from New York needed to be hard line on any issue touching terrorism or possible harm to New York. It was perception not reality and they were wrong. But they also knew it would have been damned hard to prove George was wrong unless he went ahead with whatever he was planning. If they stopped him, he had an issue which the Republicans could use to beat up the Democrats. They were thinking of campaigns, not American lives. Or they weighed the lives lost this way with the ones that would be lost with more Republican wins. Which I'm sure gives them more comfort than it does me. I understand it. But I can't reward it. I just can't. Not from MY senators.

[Captain Hilts]

21. This is where her White House past becomes important. There was NO WAY, after 8 yrs...

of watching the R's tie Bubba's hands, she was going to tie those of another prez.

[Evergreen Emerald]

24. that is exaclty what I think. She had the experience that gave her

a unique advantage. The problem, is that Bush LIED.

[Captain Hilts]

30. and started a war. She didn't. Her statement on making the vote is very pro-UN. nt

[Carolina]

40. say what

Are you saying it was okay to give Bush of all people free reign? On war, on cronyism, on subverting the constitution :shrug:

[Evergreen Emerald]

44. I think you need a new translator

I did not say that at all.

[Captain Hilts]

45. Neither did I. Bush lied. And started a war. The senate didn't. He would have done it any way-

he could have. Legal or illegal.

[Dawgs]

3. I personally won't vote for anyone that voted for Bush's illegal war.

Considering his record, I'm surprised Edwards has so many fooled.

I'm also surprised that Biden has so many believing that he is the most experienced internationally when he voted for such a stupid war.

Of course, Hillary is the worst.

[nickinSTL]

4. From what I understand, he's admitted it was a mistake...

which Clinton never has.

And to be fair, for those who consider ending the war the paramount issue, and refuse to vote for anyone who voted for the IWR, Biden doesn't get a pass. No one who voted for it does.

[medicswife]

10. Yes,

and he also has worked very hard since then to make sure that the troops are as well protected as they can be. My husband is a medic in the Army and deployed to Iraq for the second time. I know first hand what havoc the war has wracked on families. We have friends who have been killed...but we are both supporting Joe, because he has taken responsibility for his vote and he works tirelessly for his state and for the military. There are a lot of other reasons why I believe he is the best candidate.

[LostinVA]

31. Yes, she has

People post what she said in -- I believe -- 2004 almost every day here.

I'm not supporting her vote, but I AM saying that almost all the candidates voted for it, and one would have, but they all get passes for some reason. As does Senator Kerry.

[TwilightGardener]

5. He shouldn't. He knew better--better than almost ANYONE else, in fact.

He tried to curtail Chimpy's war plans before the IWR vote, because he knew there was a baseless rush to region-wide war going on--and so did Lugar and Hagel--and yet all three voted for the IWR. Even though they knew what Bush wanted to do. Inexcusable.

[hayu_lol]

8. 76 Senators voted for the IWR as Bush presented it...

Only one gets all the blame and flack--Hillary.

Biden and the others should be drummed out of the country...at the very least.

Mercy, what is the world coming to. Blame a woman cause she is the only easy target.

Hillary, by the way, has said she was sorry. She does tend to take stands, seldom misses votes on issues/bills, and unlike some, she doesn't vote Present to avoid taking an unpopular stand.

The the Obama/Edwards surrogates take on all 76 senators equally, then they will have some credibility. Until then--go fish.

[TwilightGardener]

9. They're all to blame, but I actually single Joe out the most (rather than Hillary)

because he's the biggest let-down on his vote. Dodd, too, should have known better--he ranks pretty high on the FRC.

[karynnj]

34. There were enough of the SFRC people who were

initially behind Biden/Lugar, their committee's alternative who went on to vote for it who were among the top Democrats in the foreign policy. Many of them had said they would not vote for the IWR as it was originally written. What I always thought was if it might have been that the changes that were made that took some of the most egregious language out - language that did not make it specific to Iraq and explicitly listed reasons other than imminent thread via WMD as justification were made it trade for their votes. (Those changes were made even as Bush had the needed votes - just from the Republicans, Zell Miller and the Democratic co-sponsors. The Senators had very little leverage.)

If you remember Biden's comments on Kyl/Leiberman, where again the most egregious language was removed, it is clear that he sounds like he was burned on the IWR. It was clear that the SFRC, including Lugar and Hagel, were trying to keep Bush from the immediate attack he wanted. With a different President, the intensive inspections, which many Senators doubted would be allowed, and the fact that Sadddam was still willing to speak would have allowed a non-military resolution.

[TwilightGardener]

41. I know that Congress was snookered, to some extent, although

some overcame the pressure and propaganda anyway and voted no on the IWR. I am firm in my belief that those who knew better, but voted for the IWR anyway, did so for their own personal political reasons--mostly to run for President (Biden, Dodd, Clinton, Edwards), or because they didn't want to go against their relatively new President (Lugar and Hagel), and didn't want to have to face their war-crazy red-state constituents because of a "no" vote. It's a failing, but I understand it, and I don't demonize any of them. I demonize the true demons--Bush, Cheney, the GOP and Lieberman.

[karynnj]

46. I'm not disagreeing with you

just saying that it was clear that that committee was working hard to avoid a war that was likely inevitable. In Oct 2002, they could well have seen that the resolution would pass with or without them - they were all initially for Biden/Lugar - which Dean said he would vote for in the fall of 2002. They did get some of the changes to the original IWR that they wanted. I don't think that either Dodd or Biden were seriously thinking of running in 2004, though Biden was tempted.

For a committee that share the idea that diplomacy is the answer, it may have seemed like negotiating with the President - the problem was that the President did not negotiate in good faith. Pirhana's post speaks of a meeting that Biden had with Bush and the promises he lists sound similar to those others have given. They might have thought they would have more leverage with Bush if they voted for it on trust. (Remember the bill was passing easily without them - so they were not giving up the bill failing - just risking that they would - as I think all of them do - voting for it.)

[Warpy]

6. He has since said he regrets casting it

They were all conned into it by a parade of "experts" from all the major intelligence agencies who were all telling the same carefully scripted pack of lies fed to them by Curveball and passed along by the O.S.P. at the Pentagon. Any information to the contrary from the CIA, especially Valerie Plame's group, was carefully withheld from Congress. Still, they placed some very stringent conditions on the use of force. Among them, they stipulated that Hans Blix and his group were to be allowed to finish their country wide inspections and submit the final report to the UN.

That Stupid and Cheney completely ignored all the stipulations and started lobbing bombs should have been grounds for immediate impeachment, but the Congress was controlled by a party that placed rigid loyalty to authority above country, conscience, and law.

Any Democrat who doesn't regret that vote is corrupt or a fool.

[cali]

17. Baloney. Let me tell you about another Senator who came to DC

when Biden did: Pat Leahy. Leahy not only saw throught the crap, accurately forecast what would happen, he also beseeched his colleagues not to vote for the BLANK CHECK resolution. And he was hardly the only one. Anyone who voted for that vile piece of shit IWR, was either a fool or cravenly putting self-interest ahead of the welfare of the entire damned world.

[Warpy]

26. Leahy was one voice

who was up against the whole of the defense and intelligence establishments, as far as most Congressmen could see.

It's easy for us outside the beltway to second guess those guys, to believe how gullible they were. However, we weren't exposed to the type of pressure tactics from all agencies that they were.

I understand why they voted that way back then, although they were fools for doing so without listening to what Blix had to say. Anyone who defends that vote NOW is either corrupt or a fool.

[cali]

29. he was not one voice. He may well have been the clearest but

he was joined by 22 other Senators and the majority of the dem reps in the House.

[karynnj]

37. Valerie Plame herself in the 60 minutes interview

said that she did not KNOW there were no WMD. Even though she had seen none. The difficulty is that proving something exists is much easier than proving it didn't - especially when there had been no inspectors there for 4 years before the vote. The error was in gambling that Bush would do what he publicly said he would and thus putting their names on it.

[KittyWampus]

7. 1.Who said he gets a 'free pass', except you? 2 He doesn't run from his votes like Edwards

does on many, many of his votes, for instance

3. Biden-Lugar Amendment

[medicswife]

11. Great point! n/t

[LSK]

13. lets see

1. Over the past few years there have been countless posts about Edwards and his IWR vote. Now all the sudden Biden is hailed as the foreign policy expert but I do not see anyone bring up hi IWR vote.

2. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=edwards+apologize+iraq&btnG=Google+Search

3. What amendment? http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_107_2.htm

[1corona4u]

28. See my post....

they were 2 senators short, and everyone just laughed it off, so they didn't even bring it to the floor. Gephart fucked them on the deal too.

[1corona4u]

27. Which everyone laughed at....

and no one would vote for.

[PatSeg]

12. Biden does not get a "free pass", but

he also does not get credit for his attempts to limit the president's war-making powers.

RJ Eskew in the Huffington Post states it clearly:

The Iraq War might already be over if not for Joe Lieberman. Now, as Connecticut's voters prepare to go to the polls, they should remember how this self-described "moderate" helped kill concerted efforts by true moderates of both parties to limit the President's war-making power.

Lieberman played a key part in crushing the bipartisan Biden-Lugar amendment to the Iraq War Resolution.

That amendment would have limited the President's war-making role to eliminating Hussein's WMD capabilities - a limitation which would have required the President to seek further authorization once it was known that Saddam had no WMD's.
The Senate might well have refused that authorization. At a minimum, few Democrats would have supported a second authorization. That would have given them a much clearer story for the 2004 election, and probably ensured a Kerry victory.

It would also have required the President to return to Congress with further documentation that he had pursued action in the UN Security Council, and to certify that he had clear proof of an immediate and grave threat from Iraqi WMDs.

The Biden-Lugar amendment was supported by true moderates of both parties, including key Republicans like Dick Lugar and Arlen Specter. Supporters from both sides of the aisle were convinced it could win 60 to 70 votes - that is, until Joe and his friends stepped in.

One day Lieberman and Dick Gephardt (representing sell-outs from the Senate and Congress, respectively) appeared with Bush in the Rose Garden to announce that they support the War Resolution as is - without Biden-Lugar. Support for the Amendment collapsed overnight.

http://lamontblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/remember-biden-lugar.html

[jillan]

15. He doesn't -no one does..... listen up -

Biden was going to vote NO on the IWR.

Being the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he was called into a meeting before the vote.
Bush, Cheney, Condi, Rumsfield, Powell - all the criminals were there.

Biden told Bush that the only way he would vote for the IWR was if Bush promised him he would exhaust all other options before going to war. That he would let the inspectors finish their job; that he would go to the UN and form a coalition.
Bush looked Biden in the eye and told him "Yes".

When Biden apologizes for this - he apologizes for trusting them. And he always ends it with he never imagined how incompetent these people could be.

[LSK]

16. thanks

Biden is actually my #2 right now.

[medicswife]

23. LOL

you are the second person who I have seen that has asked some really tough questions about Biden and criticized him pretty hard core andthen says, "Biden is actually my #2 right now." lol I love it.

[LostinVA]

32. And when HRC said she believed them, she was eviscerated on here

Just last week, as a matter of fact.

I actually believe what both Biden and Clinton say about trusting them.

[Captain Hilts]

18. People don't expect him to be liberal. nt

[K Gardner]

19. He hasn't asked for a pass. All of them have admitted being wrong, except Hillary.

[LostinVA]

33. She has

And, her actual quote has been posted on here about eight zillion times the last month.

[ixion]

20. No one who voted for the IWR gets a pass. no one.

which is why I support Kucinich.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

22. Hard to say someone at 5% is getting a free pass on anything

[1corona4u]

25. He doesn't, but like John....

He apologized, publicly. So apparently, if John was forgiven, Biden should be as well, right?

"It was a mistake," Biden says. "I regret my vote. I regret not realizing how incompetent (the Bush administration) would be. The president did not level with us. And if I had known it, I would never have voted to give him that authority in the first place."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0207/2828.html

[coco77]

36. Some of Edwards's supporters ...

seem to be blind to his mistakes, he knew it would come up so he jumped out there and admitted it so that those like the poster wouldn't blame him. THe question is why does edwards get a free pass?

[Sulawesi]

35. He gets a pass because he is not a competitive candidate so

people are not focusing on him...

[Carolina]

38. none of them get

a pass from me. They all (Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, Biden, Dodd) should have known better. It was political cowardice, a 'cover my ass just in case' vote, cast in haste before the 2002 midterm elections.

Many of us here at DU blast faxed, called, begged Congress critters not to give Bush the cover that IWR provided. Obviously to no avail. There are many who say that IWR wasn't a vote for war that Bush could have attacked Iraq without it. But that's exactly why all the excuses now are bullshit. They should have called his bluff; they should have let this fiasco be his and the repukes alone.

Aiding and abetting a crime is criminal. Past is prologue. Words ring hollow compared to actions like votes. So, I hold them all culpable. Sad thing is now I'll have to hold my nose and vote for one of them.

[Catherine Vincent]

39. Because he's not a frontrunner. nt

[Hippo_Tron]

42. The administration's lack of willingness to accept Biden-Lugar...

or the Levin amendment should have been a red flag that he had no intention of using the big stick to speak softly.

Biden and all of the other Democrats allowed Bush to have the resolution that he wanted with very little if any compromise.

[1corona4u]

43. Yeah, I'm sure DK would have been much more successful...

just like he has been with the Cheney impeachment. :eyes:.