Biden over Kucinich, here's why

[ThomWV]

This is the great paradox, I happen to agree with Dennis Kucinich on almost every policy issue, however I am not everyman and I am a pragmatist. Dennis Kucinich's appearance and demeanor do not inspire confidence. He is often and unfairly portrayed by the press as some sort of raving lunatic. By comparison Biden, who I also happen to agree with on most policy issues, had a rock solid stage appearance and reassuring manor. Trivial as these traits are they do count.

[1corona4u]

1. Hit the nail right on the head.

[Steely_Dan]

2. Exactly! n/t

[peace13]

3. The actions of Kucinich speak for themselves.

'appearance and demeanor'? Let's talk voting record and standing up for the American people and the Constitution 100% of the time. Good luck with Biden. He can talk a good game but many times his votes do not match his words. Just saying. Peace, Kim

[WheelWalker]

7. Well, reasonable people can

disagree, don't you agree? Actually, I recognize the point about "appearance and demeanor." I like to think of it more in terms of "presence" or "glamour". It is the ability to bring a situation around to your point of view. As such, it is an essential, albeit intangible aspect of persuasion. In that respect, I judge it IS Biden over Kucinich. Blessings.

[1corona4u]

12. Yeah...hey,

How's that impeachment thing working out for DK? Or his HR1234?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

4. So are you voting for prom king or president?

If the former, fine, go on appearance. If the latter, who cares about anything but which candidate has the policies that this country needs? If you're determining your primary vote based on what you THINK other people will like, you're falling into the "must follow the popular kids" trap.

[no name no slogan]

23. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

It's thinking like the OP's that landed us with John Kerry in 2004, Al Gore in 2000, Mike Dukakis in 1988, and Walter Mondale in 1984. We Democrats tried to mindread the American public, and chose candidates whom we thought were "electable". Lots of good that did us.

[Desertrose]

5. I'll go with substance over appearance anytime.

One would certainly be more affected by policies than by images of the president, right?

Time to get past trivial and go for real.

[WheelWalker]

11. It's not a matter of

appearance v. substance. It's a question of production v. predilection. Standing for something is one thing (and not de minimis in the least); however, Delivering results is quite another thing.

I like Dennis Kucinich a lot. I agree with him on most issues. On balance, though, I feel his effectiveness is left wanting. I agree with Joseph Biden on most issues, as well. His record of delivering results is superior, in my judgment.

[PatSeg]

6. You say a great deal with very few words

After the last seven years, I've become more and more pragmatic. Ideals that cannot or will not be implemented do not serve us well. Kucinich's ideals are reflected in the bills he has introduced, but he has a poor track record for getting things done. I admire him for his values, but cannot see him as an effective president.

[WheelWalker]

8. Precisely!

[Kucinich4America]

9. Dennis Kucinich would NEVER put his signature on a PNAC document

That's all I need to say to illustrate the difference between him and Joe Biden.

[jillan]

13. Niether has Biden. That is a f-ing lie and you know it.

[Kucinich4America]

17. Obviously you haven't done the research.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/russia-20040928.htm

[Zorra]

28. Talk about being in bad company. Ouch.

Maybe it's a different Joe Biden.

[1corona4u]

14. No, but he had no problem bankrupting the city of Cleveland...

[Kucinich4America]

18. What he did in Cleveland was prevent another ENRON from happening.

But why do I get the feeling that would have been OK with an "independent" such as yourself?

[PatSeg]

21. What Kucinich did was very courageous

and he has received a lot of credit for it.

[1corona4u]

24. No, but in my mind....

it speaks to his inability to find a workable, diplomatic solutions to a problem. It's always his way, or the highway, which is why he will never be president.

[rucky]

10. I see similarities between the two.

They're both creative problem-solvers who are always looking for the best way to do things. The main difference I see is that Kucinich is better at making ideas & plans, and Biden is better at implementing his plans. Between the two, the one who has proven he can get things done gets the edge in my book.

Dennis' biggest strength as a visionary is also his biggest weakness. He's inspiring many people with his ideas, he's a standout candidate because of that. But his unwillingness to yield one bit, prevents him from gaining the support needed to set anything in-motion. It almost seems as if he's so comfortable playing the underdog, that he puts himself in that position on purpose.

Biden is simply more pragmatic, and knows where to go, and how to get top-level support for his ideas. He's found a way to do this without compromising his principles by using the same skillful diplomacy inside the beltway as he would in foreign policy.

[jillan]

15. And they both speak their mind without pandering.

[Tejanocrat]

16. ??? Kucinich would NEVER support the 2005 bankruptcy screw job, he'd NEVER support anti-choice

Judge Diane Sykes or anti-labor Judge Deborah Cook or anti-environment Judge Brooks Smith, he'd NEVER vote to build a wall on the Mexican border, he'd NEVER vote to prohibit same-sex marriage, etc.

Biden is "Mr. Inside the Beltway" during an election when congress has a lower approval rating than splatter farts, but Kucinich has fought against that mentality all his career. Biden is the champion of the status quo during a change election, but Kucinich is a true progressive.

Vote for Biden is you must, but PLEASE don't compare him to Kucinich.

Please!

[PatSeg]

19. Well, I think that was the whole point of this thread

and most of the comments about Kucinich were positive. If we don't "compare" the candidates, then how can people make an informed decision?

[rucky]

20. This is kinda what I mean about self-marginalization...

in an effort to set himself apart.

[1corona4u]

22. How's that impeacment thing working out for DK?

Or his HR 1234 bill?

Let's have a look at his record, shall we?

Kucinich sponsored 103 bills since Jan 7, 1997, of which 94 (91%) haven't made it out of committee and 1 were successfully enacted.


Ahhh...too bad, so sad.





PS. I would never trash Biden by comparing him to DK.

[Tejanocrat]

27. Crappy. Are you glad for that? At least Kucinich tried.

[jillan]

25. Kucinich wouldn't support healthcare for children, or a woman's right to choose until

politically he had to.

So there! phftttttttttt!

[Tejanocrat]

26. Kucinich voted against the children's health care bill BECAUSE IT DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH. On abortion,

you win.

Kucinich was just as bad as Biden used to be. Biden went from anti-Roe v. Wade to middle of the road before his last unsuccessful run for president. Kucinich saw the light on the issue several years later than Biden. Credit to Biden for moderating his anti-choice position first.

Now, Kucinich is 100% pro-choice, and Biden still does not support a poor woman's right to choose if she's on public health care and Biden doesn't support a woman's right to chose if the woman learns of a fatal defect in the fetus during the third term. Credit to Kucinich for actually being pro-choice.

But you are right: Kucinich's anti-choice views were as bad as Biden's were so 1980 Biden is no worse on this issue than 1980 Kucinich.

Still, it's worth noting that 2008 Kucinich is much better on this issue than 2008 Biden.