Let's review the nasty (Hillary) attacks on Obama

[Essene]

(Folks have demanded "sources" and links for these. I'll start putting that together)

He's false hope. A dreamer. Too optimistic. Naive.

He's too liberal, too extreme.

Americans won't elect him.

He's an inexperienced flip flopper.

He's a fake civil rights leader and associations with MLK are wrong.

His election would empower Al Qaeda.

He's a rude male chauvinist holding back her gender revolution.

He's too conservative, too unprincipled.

He's merely spewing poetry, a talker not a doer.

He's just a fairy tale, no substance, no depth.

He's only got support because of blind media support.

He may have ties to muslim extremists (sorry, that counts folks).

He's like Bush, because of his inexperience.

He's soft on crime.

* His drug use makes him unelectable.




What did i miss? lol

Needless to say, i consider this very unhealthy politics for the Democrats and for america. Will they jump on the the "b hussein obama's church is racist" train, next? The Clinton camp have shown themselves to have no shame. I'm truly in awe.


* are those mentioned below.

[Vinca]

1. The last president was elected because people wanted to have

a beer with him and we know how that worked out, yada, yada, yada, yada.

[LostinVA]

2. *yawn*

Attack attack attack -- post an OP about why you SUPPORT Obama, ON ISSUES, instead of tearing down his competition.

'Kay?

Betcha can't do it.

[Essene]

4. yawn is right (let me add this to the list)

Yea, cuz nobody can articulate positive reasons to vote for Obama!!!

Let me add that to the list, thanks.

[LostinVA]

14. Errr.... I never said that -- I asked YOU TOO, and you proved me right

Instead of posting why you support him, you disingenuously misunderstood me.

You need to edit your OP claiming I said that ASAP, as it's against DU rules. Go, do it.

*yawn*

[Essene]

18. you're victorious!!! lol

So, because i have a problem with Hillary's extreme negative campaign swing... you conclude im thus some mindless Obama supporter who has nothing to say about the issues.

How pretentious.

And then when i refuse to play your snide trolling game, you declare yourself the victor!

Oh, and now i'm breaking DU rules!!! lol

[LostinVA]

25. "i refuse to play your snide trolling game"

Just broke tham again!


I AM VICTORIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Big Blue Marble]

15. The arrogance of Hillary supporters after Tuesday is blatant.

Now that she won NH, apparently she is above criticism.

[Essene]

21. i dont mind arrogance. i do mind this form of sleezy politics

i'm truly in awe.

even seeing bill clinton get up there and passionately attack obama.

it's very disturbing and it will only hurt the democrats.

[LostinVA]

22. WTF are you talking about?

All I asked is if the OP could post a POSITIVE thread about why they like Obama, instead of a list of so-called attacks made by the Hillary Camp against Obama... all without links, btw.

I don't mind criticism of HRC at all -- I myself often do it. I just don't like attacks and bashing of DEMOCRATS on a Dem site. And, that's what the OP is doing.

But, you know that already. It's just easier for you to see the avatar and make 100% groundless personal attacks.

*yawn* (I don't want you to feel left out.)

[Essene]

26. because the topic isnt about why i like obama (im undecided, btw)

it's about the insane negativity coming out of the clinton camp and it's implications.

[LostinVA]

32. No, it's a flamey attack thread -- and, guess what?

I AM VICTORIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Big Blue Marble]

72. How is it an attack to list the accusations coming from the Clinton Camp?

I have noticed that every time in the last two days, anyone Clinton out on anything,
they are immediately attacked by at least five or six Hillary supporters screaming
unfair attacks on their candidate. And the tone is arrogant.

It is not bashing to call the Clintons out on their swift boating tactics. They
play rough politics. That is their game. Fine. But own it.

[Essene]

79. Obviously ALL discussion about Clinton's negativity is an "attack" on her

[cloudythescribbler]

85. Katzenkavalier and others have done so in great detail

check out the threads for those on specific issues by "Katzenkavalier" (sp?)

[MNDemNY]

3. You forgot his cocaine use.

Oh, that's right, HE said that.

[Essene]

30. added that as an "electability" attack

i dont think the campaign has attacked his drug use itself, but rather how he talks about it and how that will play out in a general election.

[Sparkly]

5. Most of these things she did NOT say.

And, you could make a list of the things Obama said about Clinton too, if you think it's useful.

This is a campaign. It's what they do.

[Essene]

6. Go ahead, list all the nasty things Obama's camp have said

We'll wait.

[Sparkly]

9. I said, "If you think it's useful."

Personally, I don't think any of this is useful.

[Essene]

13. Useful indeed. Go ahead... list them

[Sparkly]

20. *sigh*

"And, you could make a list of the things Obama said about Clinton too, if you think it's useful."

You could start with cynical, old (baby-boomer), status quo, lacking judgment...

[MethuenProgressive]

11. When will Obama call for an end to the email smear campaign against Hillary?

Why is he refusing to tell his supporters to stop sending out all those emails?

[Essene]

24. what emails? (sincerely)

i'd like to know about his negative attacks, as well.


i just think we should differentiate between "attacks" on records vs those that are straight up personal attacks on character.

[MethuenProgressive]

31. Where are the links to all your smears of Clinton? Here's some of the anti-Clinton emails w/links.

"The Clintons now charge the Secret Service $10,000 monthly rent for the use of (a) Secret Service residence and that rent is just about equal to their mortgage payment."
Chain e-mail on Monday, September 17th, 2007 in an e-mail message circulated by many people.

The Clintons don't receive money from Secret Service

A chain e-mail alleges that Bill and Hillary Clinton are cashing in on a policy in which the Secret Service reimburses the people it protects for space in their homes that is used by agents
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/131/
----------------
Clinton "refused repeated requests to meet with the Gold Star Mothers."
Chain e-mail on Wednesday, October 17th, 2007 in an e-mail message circulated by many people.

She has met with them four times

This rumor started in 2001 after two officials from the Gold Star Mothers, two moms whose children were killed in combat, dropped by Clinton's new Senate office. They did not have an appointment and Clinton was not in the office.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/130/
-----------------
An anonymous e-mail says that Hillary Clinton advocates communism.
Chain e-mail on Wednesday, December 12th, 2007 in

Hillary's no red menace

An anonymous chain e-mail maligns Hillary Clinton in the form of a “gotcha”-style quiz


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/221/
------------------

[Essene]

41. Thank you, now show this BS is from Obama's camp

Your own sources indicate this is all from anonymous sources.

I don't like this kind of BS attacking, either.

I'm not saying it CANT be from Obama's camp, but there are more than a few other contenders and agents out there wiling to push negative stuff against Hillary. Disclosing who's doing this is important.

[Adelante]

28. What emails are those?

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

96. As someone else wrote, those Emails are probably of Freeper origin

The twisted logic and barely-repressed hatred have Freeper written all over them.

[MethuenProgressive]

7. Welcome to DU. Please provide a link to each of your smears against Clinton.

Link, or slink, as they say around here.

[Essene]

10. attack me? thanks... i feel welcomed

Way to get right to the issues. Bravo.

[LostinVA]

17. You haven't gotten to the issues yourself

Only posting flamey OPs without any links AND making up stuff I didn't say.

[Essene]

35. the ISSUE is absurd negativity in the democratic primaries

I can go back and link source/evidence, but that would take a while.

I can respect folks wanting backup sources... but don't use that to downplay the issue at hand, either.

[LostinVA]

46. Oh trust me, I've see the negative attacks

:eyes:

[Adelante]

36. You're new here

Welcome to DU :hi:

MethuenProgressive is a holy terror and a major ballbreaker, but he is right about links. If you make claims, you need to back them up or nobody will take you seriously. That's the way DU is meant to operate.




Now, MP, about this email smearing, link or slink :D

[goldcanyonaz]

16. Rumor and innuendo is all one needs around here to post shit about Clinton.

[Big Blue Marble]

76. Interesting how you turn Clinton smears about Obama into "smears against Clinton." n/t

[meegbear]

8. If all the attacks on Obama came from Hillary ...

does that mean all the attacks on Hillary came from Obama?

[moobu2]

12. This is absolutely nothing

compared to what the republicans will do if your man is the nominee. Maybe it isn’t as unhealthy as you think if it toughens his skin and better prepares him for what’s surely coming (if he’s the nominee). If he cant take the criticisms now, then maybe we should know now etc etc etc.

[goldcanyonaz]

19. Look at all the recommendations pour in from the kool-aid drinkers. Yee Haw!

[LostinVA]

23. Your arrogance is blatant

hehehehehhehe

[ShortnFiery]

29. I feel a true SADNESS for the duped HRC "true believers."

:(

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. IMHO

Attacks on policy are acceptable... Personal attacks aren't...

Character stuff isn't...

[goldcanyonaz]

33. Personal attacks are par for the course around here for Clinton. Facts need not apply.

[SIMPLYB1980]

34. What about the politics of "Hope."

Since yesterday I see nothing but the politics of pile on. DU should be ashamed of itself.

[Nedsdag]

89. Well, since Hillary doesn't believe in Hope.

Her peons are coming out of the woodwork to go after her opponent.

See: Cuomo, Andrew.

[Clintonista2]

37. You missed when Hillary called Obama "Bush-Cheney light"

Oh wait...

[MethuenProgressive]

38. "He's a rude male chauvinist holding back her gender revolution." Link, please?

[Pacifist Patriot]

39. And here I thought I was Pollyanna.

Good grief, criticizing and attacking opponents has been part of the political process since before Solon. We've had 43 presidents and as far as I can tell only one wasn't criticized during the election cycle. Has no one read about the cat fight between Adams and Jefferson?

No, this does not mean I support the tactic or find it in the least tasteful. Just fail to find it surprising or anything new.

[MethuenProgressive]

40. "He may have ties to muslim extremists" Link, please?

[Evergreen Emerald]

42. Obama's nasty attacks on Clinton --the most recent version

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4020811

[magatte]

51. give up man... you are not even trying anymore

You can`t come up with anything nasty the Obama has said about the Clinton campaign. Fact.

[MethuenProgressive]

43. "(Folks have demanded "sources" and links for these. I'll start putting that together)"

Yeah, you do that...

[Essene]

56. See below. I cant edit original post anymore

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

44. Let's Not...

Seriously. Why do you feel compelled to relive every slight (perceived or otherwise) that your candidate has experienced? Take the high road and keep talking about the issues.

And I would say the same to the HRC supporters who want to "go there" about Obama. Stop obsessing over sound bites and concentrate on substance.

[jasmine621]

45. OK. Now post the actual quotes made my HC.

Give us a little more than your paraphrasing, then I'll believe.

[LostinVA]

47. The next Ice Age will have come and gone before then

[Essene]

57. See below (have fun deflecting the truth)

[Bitwit1234]

48. Hell if anybody HAD THE TIME to list all the hits by Obama's

doodle boppers against Hillary Clinton they would be typing for a week.

[Essene]

58. feel free to start listing the obama stuff, too

[progressoid]

49. And he has big feet.

[MNDemNY]

50. Big feet that stink.

[Auntie Bush]

61. "He has bad breath in the morning and the kids don' want to kiss him"

according to Michele Obama!

[MNDemNY]

62. And then there are those "ears"!

[Auntie Bush]

70. Oh my God...those EARS...how did we forget them?

However, better to hear with (like a megaphone) so that's a plus...not a negative. LOL

Now what else? Anyone check to see if his pants have a sharp crease? If not, someone (Hillary) better get out that IRON.

[Tarc]

52. All looks to be pretty fair game

What is wrong about highlighting your opponent's inexperience and general naivety? Nothing.

What is wrong about Obama supporters playing the race card and the tinfoil conspiracies? Everything

Apples and oranges, son.

[sellitman]

53. Troll alert.

Mods....shut down this BS.

Please!

[LostinVA]

54. Yup

I alerted a while ago.

[Essene]

77. Why don't you ban me, too... since obviously im a "troll," right?

Ahh, the hypocrisy.

[Essene]

65. Yes, heaven forbid we discuss the negativity. BAN THE TROLL!!!

i didnt honestly expect this hypocrisy here, nor the personal attacks.

[sellitman]

86. Congrats Troll!

You are the first added to my ignore list in 2008.

*Poof*

[Essene]

87. You sure showed me...

[MethuenProgressive]

80. (and they think no one will notice...)

It's troll season on DU...

[Essene]

82. Obviously im the one trolling right? Keep attacking me... go ahead.

Just because a lurking member since Aug 2006 starts posting things you dont want to hear doesnt make them a troll.

And if THIS is how you got your post count, you'd in no position to lecture about trolling...

[Essene]

55. Fact Check & Sources

1. I'm not an obama fanboy. In fact, i'm undecided.
2. The topic is negativity in the democratic campaign (feel free to show when Obama's done the same, cuz obviously Edwards is going that route too)

FACT CHECK UPDATES:

### He's likely to get assassinated. Yes, somebody who introduced Hillary Clinton emphasized the comparison with JFK and how he got killed. “Some people compare one of the other candidates to John F. Kennedy. But he was assassinated." The Clinton admin distanced themselves from his comments, calling them inappropriate, but the damage was done. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

### He's no MLK. She dissed MLK first of all, suggesting REAL change only happened because of President Johnson not MLK's dream. She then implied that he doesn't remotely compare to MLK or Kennedy. "“You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches." Think about what she's actually saying. Sad. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/

### Al qaeda will strike!! "Look what happened in Great Britain," she said. "Tony Blair leaves, Gordon Brown comes in, the very next day, there are terrorist attacks... So you've got to be prepared on Day One with everything ready to go." Sorry, but that's a disgraceful comment, directly suggesting terrorist will strike with the election of Obama. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/05/cnr.06.html

### Flip flopper. Just watch the ABC debate from 1/5/08. She repeated this charge in various ways, although in fairness she did get into specifics in a few cases (which i think is fair game if you challenge the record itself on the issues). However, for a couple months... this has been her primary charge against him. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530

### Male chuavanism and the gender card. Folks may reasonably disagree on the interpretation, but she's clearly playing the gender card lately - even implied that her gender alone equates to meaningful change in the White House (just imagine the outcry if Obama said that about being black). She said that in the 1/5/08 debate. Similarly, the spin out of NH is that his comment was rude and poor Hillary's being beaten up on by the boys *tear*. That's how i intepret this spin, and it seems very clear to me. And if you question her crying about her campaign hardships, she implies THAT is male chuavanism too. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4092530 & http://bourbonroom.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/07/clintons-candid-assessment/

And additionally... i'd like to just focus on this clip from the NH Debate. She was attacked on the issue of likability. She joked that he's likable. He DEFENDED HER in return. She even says "i appreciate that," yet all the Clinton spin doctors (and Rove) are trying to pretend he attacked her. Watch for yourself and be honest. These 2 were just handling an obnoxious question with grace, but now the Clinton base is trying to turn this into a chuavanistic attack by him? Get real. Watch it. It was friendly. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7RuzYvtCw

### Bush V2. "He’s very likable . I agree with that…. You know, in 2000 we, unfortunately, ended up with a president who people said they wanted to have a beer with." “I think it’s good to have a likeable president. But if I remember right, many people said they wanted to have a beer with George W. Bush. Maybe they should’ve left it at that – have a beer, don’t vote him in as our president.” It's a slick way to deflect the likability argument, but she even tries to imply this has policy implications, electing an inexperienced guy just because he's likable.

### False hope. "An untested man who offers false hope." "We don't need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delivered." Clinton herself said this. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_01/012851.php

### Obama lacks depth and reality. "On a lot of these issues it is hard to know where he stands, and people need to ask that." "As famously was said years ago, 'Where's the beef?'" Clinton said that herself. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1

### Obama is soft on crime. "Mandatory minimums take too much discretion away from judges." "Barack Obama's kind of change is where you sit down and you cut a deal with the corporate world." http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4088317&page=1 & http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/hillary-hits-obama-for-op_n_79918.html

### Obama is just poetry. She's been stumping with comments about how he's just talking poetry and she's ready to govern with prose. Cute. " a doer, not a talker." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080107/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_rdp

### Obama is just a fairy tale. Bill Clinton's rant the other day that i think shocked more than a few of us. Clinton flat out called Obama a liar, said he was a fairy tale. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Obama is in this still because of blind media. Bill Clinton also suggested it was "wrong" that Obama has been able to get through 15 debates without being called a liar by the press. He implies the blind, uncritical media is the problem. "The press never reported on" yadda yadda. "Give me a break!" He thought Hillary was going to lose NH and was basically blaming the media for this "fairy tale." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

### Obama is too conservative. They claimed he was "unwilling to take a stand on choice." His controversial gay marriage position is a legitimate issue, for sure, but they've tried to paint him as too conservative. http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/hillary_mailer_hits_obama_on_abortion.php

### Muslim extremist. Several Clinton campaign folks were removed over this. One may argue this absolves her from responsibility, yet anybody paying attention realizes this smear is arguably one of higher impact ones. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/10/second-clinton-volunteer-_n_76047.html

### Drug record makes him unelectable. Top Clinton advisor steps down after making various arguments about how Obama can't get elected due to his drug use. http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/

### Obama is too liberal. "Hillary's aides point to Obama's extremely progressive record as a community organizer, state senator and candidate for Congress, his alliances with 'left-wing' intellectuals in Chicago's Hyde Park community, and his liberal voting record on criminal defendants' rights as subjects for examination." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/new-hampshire-will-be-key_n_79873.html

[Essene]

59. Added to the list: 'he will get assassinated if elected"

See above.

[magatte]

68. Great Post!

Where did you get all this. Is there a FACTCHECK link that I can forward to people?

[Essene]

74. I wish there was a central site for fact checking stuff like this

Maybe there is. I don't know.

I just put this together myself, although there is a Huffington piece that reviewed a couple of them the other day.


The sudden, desperate, nasty tone of the Clinton campaign is cause for alarm in my view. It's not going to lead to good things, and while OBVIOUSLY most people here want to attack me for daring to even mention this stuff... this won't be the last time we hear about these points.

[elixir]

71. Fact check run down. First of all, many of these sources are third parties commenting on actions..

w/in HRC's campaign and shouldn't be considered in this discussion.
Your OP states the following summation of what your sources imply. Many of your summations are far reaching and do not represent the original source. As they say all is fair in love and war and campaigning is war.

I'm sure someone has already pulled together similar stuff on BO

[Essene]

73. feel free to get specific rather than just pretend there's nothing there

My concern is with the exceptionally nasty assaults and negativity among the democrats.

That goes for Edward's assault on Clinton, as well.

As far as I'm concerned, this is just shooting the democratic party in the foot. Attacking "hope"???????

[MethuenProgressive]

81. Such naivete: "It's on the Internets, so it must be true!!"

We've found yet another child that's been left behind.

[Essene]

83. Keep up with the insults... it's really helping your cause (whatever it is)

Heaven forbid you admit there's some nasty attacks coming out of the Clinton camp that's worthy of discussion & reflection

[killbotfactory]

88. Wow, I missed the assassination remark

What the fuck?

[Essene]

94. but but but it was an innocent comment by a hillary fan!

Consciously or subconsciously, it was most certainly inappropriate.

[zulchzulu]

60. Don't forget the biggie... he wrote a paper in kindergarden that he wanted to be President

That's enough reason NEVER to support The Pre-Coronated Crybaby.

[Essene]

84. he was trying to shuck & jive through school! (nt)

[elixir]

63. ...and the posts? I'm waiting.

[Essene]

64. i posted sources above... funny how all those attacking ME went quiet

how dare we have a serious discussion about these attacks out of the clinton campaign!!!

[elixir]

69. It taking me a while to read all the posts. I only have a kindergarten education...

I stopped after I realized that BO was going to be president.

[Auntie Bush]

66. LOL...LOL...LOL Some of those things are true and should be included

in any fair campaign. On the other hand some are darn right mean and untrue. However, how do we know it came from the Hillary camp? You know the Edwards supporters are out there too and think they gain from putting Obama down.

I don't have time or interest in finding and quoting all the vicious, negative thing said about Hillary when at any moment here on DU 3/4 the post were sicking attacks on Hillary. It's totally ridiculous you could possibly think there were many anti-Obama posts. He's been treated like an infallible god here...compared to others.

Many of the OP's comments were things that differentiated policy differences.
They were fair to say. How can you have a campaign without pointing out your differences? That doesn't mean it was an attack...like the ones said about Clinton...which were almost ALL personal. I rarely saw anyone post their policy differences.

[Auntie Bush]

67. "Let's review the nasty (Hillary) attacks on Obama"

Let's review the nasty (Obama) attacks on Hillary.

You can't! It would be an impossible challenge as no one has ALL day to do nothing but research and copy and paste. IMPOSSIBLE...and you know it.

[fightindonkey]

75. The Majority Of That Crap Came From The Media, Not Clinton, They Blammed Her For Bhutto's Death

Next.

[Essene]

78. See the Facts & Sources post above.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

90. The MLK belittlement was especially lame

and stupid. I've never seen African-Americans so alienated against a Democratic candidate, as they are against Hillary for her arrogant statements about such an iconic figure.

[Essene]

91. it's mind-boggling

[krkaufman]

92. Hell, I've shifted further away from Hillary because of Bill ...

... and his selective quoting and twisting of Obama's "I don't know what I would have done" re: the use of force resolution. Critique the candidates on their positions, habits, etc, but don't lie. Bill did Hillary a disservice with that one.

[KennedyGuy]

93. if he thinks thats nasty, he should give up now...

does he expect the rethugs to help polish his halo..
or do you think they will show him what negative REALLY means..

[Essene]

95. That isnt the point. Let the GOP try this same stuff...

This isnt about poor Obama.

This is about the democrats destroying themselves and turning off voters with insanely inappropriate smears.