Is Edwards Just A Spoiler Now ?

[Tulkas]

I would say yes.

If you saw the last debate he seemed to be trying to present himself as interchangeable with Sen. Obama. He seems to just be splitting the anti-establishment vote allowing Sen. Clinton to win a plurality when she should be losing every contest.

I understand why he stayed through New Hampshire but he should drop out now before he looks like the New Ralph Nader.


P.S. I like the guy, but he ran an "Iowa Only" campaign and lost. Time to go.

[Tweed]

1. HIDE

:hide:

[Ytzak]

2. Hillary is trying to defuse the race thing...

But if that doesn't work, Hillary and Obama could be so damaged that Edwards is the last Democrat standing.

[Colobo]

3. Are you ready for what's coming to you?

I agree with you, but you're about to get mauled...

[pauldg0]

37. Are you ready for what's coming for you?

.....Accounts of Edwards Electoral Death Are Perhaps Premature
Posted January 14, 2008 | 02:43 PM (EST)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read More: Barack Obama, Democratic Primaries, John Edwards, John Edwards Nevada, Nevada Caucus, Breaking Politics News



Perhaps all the folks who keep wanting to count Edwards out, should note this poll on Nevada (hat tip David Sirota):

Email
Print
Comment
Barack Obama: 32 percent

Hillary Clinton: 30 percent

John Edwards: 27 percent


It's still close, and Edwards' delegate count is just fine, thanks. He's in the running to be kingmaker at the convention, and if something unpredictable happens, he's still within distance to win it all. He'd be a fool to step out now. Nor does the fact that South Carolina is polling badly for him mean much--it's only one state.

Next, a word for Obama supporters who want Edwards to step out, from Krugman:

Anyway, on Sunday Mr. Obama came out with a real stimulus plan. As was the case with his health care plan, which fell short of universal coverage, his stimulus proposal is similar to those of the other Democratic candidates, but tilted to the right.
For example, the Obama plan appears to contain none of the alternative energy initiatives that are in both the Edwards and Clinton proposals, and emphasizes across-the-board tax cuts over both aid to the hardest-hit families and help for state and local governments. I know that Mr. Obama's supporters hate to hear this, but he really is less progressive than his rivals on matters of domestic policy.
I would add that he also uses right wing frames far more often that the other two, his senior economic advisers are virtualy reactionaries and talk of "hope" doesn't make you a progressive. (Remember Mr. "Morning in America" Reagan if you are inclined to disagree.)

It remains unclear to me that Edwards' supporters would go to Obama if Edwards dropped out, but the bottom line is simpler--there is no reason for Edwards to drop out. He's still in the running, and if he wants to choose which of the other candidates wins if he doesn't, walking into the convention with a block of delegates large enough to do it is the best way.



And Obama isn't Edwards--he is significantly to the right of Edwards and on the fight/compromise spectrum he is actually the most conciliatory of the three candidates. Edwards supporters want a fighter; that isn't Obama.

Edwards is alive and kicking, and a force to be reckoned with. There's no good reason for him to ever drop out of the nomination contest. Time for Obama supporters to tend to their own campaign, not to Edwards.

[AtomicKitten]

4. No matter how it turns out, I hope O & E ban together to bring real change.

[OzarkDem]

5. No

He's picking up a lot of delegates and the primary is now moving to states where he does very well. As Howard Dean said, this primary is going to last a while.

[aquart]

6. Not to me. He remembers there are issues.

[Bonobo]

7. no. nt

[MonkeyFunk]

8. No, not yet

[Jim Sagle]

9. No, are you?

[Tulkas]

17. Looks Like Most Agree With Me

This Clinton / Obama race thing will be over long before the convention. Edwards can't possibly be the the last democrat standing.

If he really wanted to make changes in D.C. he should support the anti-establishment candidate and play for a good job in his administration. (Attorney General? Sec. Of Labor?)

[orleans]

27. looks like most agree with you? WHO? no one on this thread so far

has agreed with you. EVERYONE says edwards is not a spoiler.

ARE YOU?

[JackBeck]

10. After just two states?

No.

On edit: This is the primaries, not the general. So the comparison to Nader, a third party candidate, is inappropriate.

[The Traveler]

11. Since even the MSM is now observing

that Edwards is driving the structure of the debate, it would seem his significance is rather greater than that of a mere spoiler. Nader can't drive the debate. Hell, from what I hear, he couldn't even drive a Chevy Corvair ... :evilgrin:

[Rydz777]

12. Edwards need to keep his issues on the table. eom

[Andy823]

13. I would say no

He is the only one who is still talking about the "real" issues, not playing games. Now who would you rather have as president, the grown up, or the "kids" on the playground?

[Selatius]

14. Nope. Using your logic, Bill Clinton was a spoiler for Tsongas and Harkin in 1992.

Would you call Bill Clinton a Naderator for failing to drop out after losing both Iowa and New Hampshire because he was eating into Tom Harkin and Paul Tsongas' support?

[onehandle]

20. Who is this "Bill Clinton" character?

Did he go anywhere after his naderish spoiler activity?

[Tulkas]

26. of course not

No, but this isn't the same thing and you know it.


Bill was ahead in the polls going into New Hampshire and had a good shot there. also I believe Harkin was the Governor of Iowa, you couldn't expect a win for Bill there.

Edwards has been running an "Iowa Only" campaign for almost five years now. He is way behind in every poll in every state. He isn't viable anymore, Bill was still in the mix after New Hampshire in 92.

[Selatius]

33. You haven't looked at Nevada's recent polls, have you?

Also, Bill Clinton's poll numbers dropped into the single digits after alleged sex scandals came to light heading into New Hampshire. He lost to Paul Tsongas.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tulkas]

21. Yep new here, Voting In MI tomorrow

Dunno if you are seeing a vast right wing conspiracy or what? It is a coincidence, the fact that you seem to think it isn't says something about your judgment.

I am voting in Michigan tomorrow and was trying to decide if the Uncommitted vote was a good idea.



Flame me, I don't care.

[orleans]

30. NO. uncomitted vote is not a good idea. vote kucinich. i'll give you a link

to other posts here about this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2681480

[tired_old_fireman]

16. Edwards is the strongest general election candidate

The goal is the whitehouse. McCain is the most likely republican nominee. Edwards can beat McCain. If anyone is a spoiler in this race, it is Obama and Clinton who cannot beat McCain without some major amount of luck.

(I normally avoid posting negative stuff, but when people keep posting this crap for weeks, the gloves need to come off.)

[Tulkas]

18. Obama beats McCain easily

Check the polls, it isn't even close

Don't forget McCain will be 72 by November

[tired_old_fireman]

29. I checked the polls.

McCain leads Obama 46 to 43.
Edwards leads McCain 46 to 39

http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/14/the-polls-you-wont-hear-much-about/

[Marrah_G]

19. No- the vast majority of Democrats have not had their say yet

Iowa and NH in no way represent the country's Dem party as a whole. I'd like a chance to have my say too.

[Yuugal]

22. Al From, is that you? nt

[HooptieWagon]

23. No

Its early in the primaries, and Edwards could well gain support with the Clinton and Obama camps going at each other. Also, if the race remains essentially tied at the convention, Edwards can swing a deal for his delegates, which might be the only possibility of getting some progressive ideals onto the platform. IOW, Edwards could be calling the shots, even from third place.

[Lucinda]

24. Nope. JE is in the catbird seat.

He's polling well, has a nice chunk of super delegates, and will most likely have great leverage even if he continues to run third.

[Tulkas]

31. dreaming

His poll numbers are in the teens except for Nevada and he is running our of funding. Come on, be real. He can't win and is pulling a Nader.

[Lucinda]

34. He has more committed delegates than Obama at the moment., and Nevada will be a boost.

He's not going to win nom, but he will have an effect on who does get it.

[Tulkas]

32. dreaming

His poll numbers are in the teens except for Nevada and he is running our of funding. Come on, be real. He can't win and is pulling a Nader.

[rasputin1952]

35. A Nader? That was the General Election...

this is the Primaries....no candidate yet, so there is no correlation.

Just about anything can happen.

Except a GOP president or congress at this point.

[saracat]

49. Did you just log on to be a spoiler? Do you have anything constructive to say

or do you just get yuor jollies being negative?

[peacetalksforall]

25. Even though you don't hear his voice on Republican Corporate Networks doesn't

mean he is not speaking. He's on target even though the Republican Corporate Networks are running around trying to cut off all his audio and video wires. Explain to your friends and family why he does not get heard.

[Tulkas]

28. wow

Umm....

He is on MSNBC and CNN on a regular basis (I don't watch FOX sorry) but his poll numbers are in the teens and he simply does not have the funding to do anything but try to get free air time from any news channel he can.

Again, I like the guy but he can't win and is pulling a Nader.

[peacetalksforall]

36. What did Nader pull during the primary season? I thought Edwards

was running as a Democrat?

[Moochy]

38. Dont let facts get in the way of the OP's spin

[pauldg0]

39. Yes John will spoil it........check this out.........

....Accounts of Edwards Electoral Death Are Perhaps Premature
Posted January 14, 2008 | 02:43 PM (EST)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read More: Barack Obama, Democratic Primaries, John Edwards, John Edwards Nevada, Nevada Caucus, Breaking Politics News



Perhaps all the folks who keep wanting to count Edwards out, should note this poll on Nevada (hat tip David Sirota):

Email
Print
Comment
Barack Obama: 32 percent

Hillary Clinton: 30 percent

John Edwards: 27 percent


It's still close, and Edwards' delegate count is just fine, thanks. He's in the running to be kingmaker at the convention, and if something unpredictable happens, he's still within distance to win it all. He'd be a fool to step out now. Nor does the fact that South Carolina is polling badly for him mean much--it's only one state.

Next, a word for Obama supporters who want Edwards to step out, from Krugman:

Anyway, on Sunday Mr. Obama came out with a real stimulus plan. As was the case with his health care plan, which fell short of universal coverage, his stimulus proposal is similar to those of the other Democratic candidates, but tilted to the right.
For example, the Obama plan appears to contain none of the alternative energy initiatives that are in both the Edwards and Clinton proposals, and emphasizes across-the-board tax cuts over both aid to the hardest-hit families and help for state and local governments. I know that Mr. Obama's supporters hate to hear this, but he really is less progressive than his rivals on matters of domestic policy.
I would add that he also uses right wing frames far more often that the other two, his senior economic advisers are virtualy reactionaries and talk of "hope" doesn't make you a progressive. (Remember Mr. "Morning in America" Reagan if you are inclined to disagree.)

It remains unclear to me that Edwards' supporters would go to Obama if Edwards dropped out, but the bottom line is simpler--there is no reason for Edwards to drop out. He's still in the running, and if he wants to choose which of the other candidates wins if he doesn't, walking into the convention with a block of delegates large enough to do it is the best way.



And Obama isn't Edwards--he is significantly to the right of Edwards and on the fight/compromise spectrum he is actually the most conciliatory of the three candidates. Edwards supporters want a fighter; that isn't Obama.

Edwards is alive and kicking, and a force to be reckoned with. There's no good reason for him to ever drop out of the nomination contest. Time for Obama supporters to tend to their own campaign, not to Edwards.

[avaistheone1]

45. Edwards has been the only Dem candidate beating all Republican candidates consistently for 6 months.

I don't think their is any reason Edwards should back off.

Edwards is doing well in Nevada too. Edwards fund raising is going well. And all the candidates are trying to steal his ideas now.

BTW Iowa and New Hampshire do not represent all of America. I would like to have seen a state like California go first - because California has a diverse population and economy and is more representative of America.

[Two Americas]

40. the American people

The American people are the spoilers, and sooner or later they will spoil the game that is controlled by insiders on behalf of the interests of the wealthy and powerful few at the expense of the rest of us, and they will take back control of their government, their country and their lives.

You can count on that.

We should fight for a cause because it is the right cause, the right thing to do, and the right way to live our lives, not because we have cynically calculated the odds of winning. The lives and well-being of millions of people are at stake. This is not some game that we are passively observing as though it were a tennis match.

Edwards could lose the nomination, but there is something much bigger happening than that - the movement that is beginning to form of people who have been inspired by his words. That cannot be stopped. That will prevail. We will win, no matter the fate of this particular candidacy in this particular race.

You can count on that.

I will never, never, never quit. And where there is one, more will follow. You might as well hope to stop the tide. We will prevail. We will win.

You can count on that.

[lisainmilo]

41. I would say "NO"

He is still in the race all the way to the WH!

Go John Go!

:)

[donheld]

42. No, Hillary and Obama are the spoilers

:hide:

[avaistheone1]

48. Do a little digging. Edwards is the only real change candidate.

[Two Americas]

43. by the way

Last I checked, the delegate count was something like 25-24-19, and there are some 2000 still to be chosen. It is hardly the appropriate time to start dismissing anyone, wouldn't you agree?

It is true that Edwards is not getting media coverage, and is not getting the big bucks, and is being dismissed or ignored by all of the powerful insiders. But as a loyal and principled Democrat, as I assume you are, is that a worthy or laudable reason for you to start burying him?

Welcome to DU. We were getting pretty inspired and motivated and enthusiastic here, as you may have noticed before you signed up. You are welcome to join us in that. Sooner or later you will, I believe, assuming again that you are a loyal and principled Democrat, so why not now? Life is better on the other side. Don't wait for the herd to move.

[Lugnut]

44. No.

Nice try.

[NastyRiffraff]

46. I think you got your answer

and it's a resounding "No."

Believe it or not, Obama doesn't have a God-given right to the nomination. Just what, exactly, is he supposed to be spoiling?

[Skittles]

47. here's an idea

how about giving the rest of the country a chance to vote before you write off any candidate???