"Many Democrats voted for Reagan TWICE!"

[William769]

Whats wrong with this?

[LostinVA]

1. No Democrat ever voted for Reagan -- myself included

I was an idiot college student voting in her first election who voted the way her Dad did.

[William769]

3. I'm still trying to figure out the rationale on this quote.

Although I am pretty sure what is is, I just wanted other people opinion on it.

[TwilightZone]

8. The rationale is pretty transparent.

Democrats voted for Reagan, so he couldn't have been *that* bad.

Therefore, it's OK for Obama to use him as a reference point.

[ClericJohnPreston]

23. Your username

is well deserved.

[TwilightZone]

31. Coming from someone named after a fictional character,

pardon me if I disregard your opinion.

If you can't see that Obama's supporters are rationalizing like mad about the Reagan comments, you're just not paying attention.

[ClericJohnPreston]

45. Aren't you one of those ardent Obama supporters?

Or was I misreading your name in all those Obama posts?

[TwilightZone]

67. "all those Obama posts"

You obviously have me confused with someone else. I'd like to see "all those Obama posts" you're referring to. Good luck with that.

More likely, you're just knee-jerking and not reading for context. The only thing you misread was the sarcasm in the post you responded to. I wasn't supporting the Reagan assertion; I was pointing out the ridiculousness of the rationalization. If you've read as many of my posts as you claim, even you should have figured that out at some point.

By the way, I'll take "Twilight Zone", the show or the song, over a mediocre movie that bombed any day.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

33. Ron Serling was a progressive, and his legendary series is

is full of subversive liberal messages. No surprise seeing someone use it as their nick here, most liberals love that show.

[redqueen]

49. Yup... makes me wish logic was more popular.

Cause that's just rigoddamndiculous

[Bucky]

13. Yep, it's a valid statement.

My grandfather was born in 1899, died in 1988, and was a lifelong Democrat. He voted for FDR, he idolized Truman, he fought to desegregate Oklahoma public schools in the 1940s.

And he voted for Reagan in 1984. Many people who identified themselves as Democrats for more than a generation began slipping a few votes into the red column during the late 1970s and 1980s. I was just coming up then and it didn't make sense to me, but I saw a lot of it. Remember Carter carried Texas in 1976. By 1984 a Democrat carrying Texas was unthinkable.

[Orrex]

2. I know a good many conservatives who say

"I'm a Conservative, but I don't like Bush."

Really? Then who the hell did you vote for in 2000? In 2004? Somebody voted for this asshole, and it sure as shit wasn't the Left-leaning majority in this country.


How many of those Democrats who voted twice for Reagan voted for Bush Sr. in 1988? And how many for Bush Jr. in 2000? In 2004?

[Bucky]

4. Maybe they meant they like it trimmed down.

The Bill of Rights, that is.

[Politicub]

5. It's crazy that

Obama's supports believe by saying that, it somehow unrings the bell.

[redqueen]

47. Well put. (nt)

[TwilightZone]

6. "Reagan Democrats" weren't Democrats.

They were idiots who bought into the bullshit drummed up by the same people that brought us "compassionate conservatism."

[SoFlaJet]

11. Randi Rhodes...

would you consider HER a democrat? Guess who SHE voted for in 1980 or 84? Look it used to be OK to switch parties and vote for who we thought was the best person for the job, you know up until 2000 anyway-that's when the game changed. I have voted for a republican for president but after what they did down here in Florida in November 2000 I vowed to NEVER make that mistake again.

[TwilightZone]

15. Anybody who was paying any attention whatsoever knew that Reagan was an idiot.

I give them no more leeway than the 59 million idiots who voted for Bush.

[SoFlaJet]

20. That's really the "it factor" TZ

anybody who pays attention KNOWS and KNEW then what Bush was about. It amazes me to meet and talk to people who voted for Bush with how uninformed they really are...

[TwilightZone]

25. Agreed.

Some people vote for president like it's a popularity contest and personality is their primary criterion. That's what got us two terms of Reagan and two terms of W.

[SoFlaJet]

50. yea but...

they all really just wanted to have a beer with Georgie-maybe some BBQ...he is the kind of guy I NEVER would have had for a drinking buddy-when I was drinking that is...he was probably one of those guys that played "quarters" and then wouldn't let you in the bathroom to do a line with his rich friends

[TwilightZone]

74. No kidding.

I never understood that rationale. They acted like he was a frat guy, some beer-drinking buddy, but did they really want a frat guy to be president? The number of people who made those types of claims just astonished me. I was living in Nebraska at the time, and I heard it all the time.

A co-worker who was kind of a dope told me that he was going to vote for Bush because he "reminds me of myself". I told him that I didn't want him being president either!

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

46. Maybe she's evolved, she was also fired from a radio gig in the late 80s

For making homophobic comments on the air. I saw that on her Wikipedia page. And frankly I still pick up on some homophobia from her, although she does defend gays and gay rights, so I wouldn't go so far as to call her a homophobe. I think she used to be one though, when she got fired from that job, and when she was voting for Reagan.

[SoFlaJet]

51. what are you kidding me?

her sister was a lesbian...somebody needs to update THAT Wiki profile...

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

59. So, she had a gay sister

Homophobes don't have gay relatives? Please, just because she had a gay sister it doesn't automatically mean she wasn't fired for making homophobic comments. If having a gay sister was supposed to mean so much to her, why was she voting for a right-wing homophobe? She wasn't a Democrat in the 80s, she was ignorant and homophobic like most Reagan voters.

[SoFlaJet]

It's becoming very clear

that you have no friggin idea what you're talking about-prove to me that she was fired for being a "homophobe"-YOU are the ignorant one-Randi Rhodes may be a lot of other things (as we all are) but one can NEVER EVER EVER accuse her of being ignorant

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

Oh, mustn't make any criticisms of mommy, or you'll have a coronary?

"While teaming with host Perry Stone at Milwaukee's WQFM, Rhodes was suspended in 1987 when their program offended the homosexual community and led several businesses to cancel ads."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randi_Rhodes

[SoFlaJet]

84. Who knows who said what

was it something she said or was it something that Perry Stone said? It doesn't say. All I can tell you is I've been a Randi fan since the early 90's and not ONCE did I EVER hear her say anything bad about the gay and lesbian community-not ONCE

[redqueen]

52. Nobody is the same person they were in the 80's.

I wonder what she's said herself about the votes.

[SoFlaJet]

55. she doesn't apologize

remember; It USED to be acceptable to switch parties and vote for the BPA...again, up until Bush/Rove. I voted for George Sr.-I thought he would make a better president than Dukakis-i don't apologize for that-i did what i thought was right at the time

[redqueen]

66. Apologizing isn't what I'd expect.

I'd expect some explaining. The man was a transparent phony. She was young, though.

[SoFlaJet]

72. call her show and ask her

she thought he was the best man for the job

[redqueen]

79. No real need to.

Reagan dems are either full on repukes now, or have recognized and acknowledged the ignorance of their actions. :)

[suston96]

7. I posted this elsewhere....Obama is courting California Reagan worshippers...

.....election politics, pure and simple. A talking head mentioned this but I immediately made the connection to the board here.

Smart move by Obama to grab some of that California delegate rich gold mine.

[sunonmars]

12. Might backfire royally though

The Californian democrats may just turn tale and then whats he left with. Its a very sharp edged sword dangling over his head with this.

[babylonsister]

14. Maybe he's courting older Dems who voted for Reagan when

crossing the aisle wasn't seen as necessarily a bad thing. Maybe his 'big tent' is broader than any other candidate's. I don't have a problem with that.

[Cameron27]

16. How many CA Reagan fans

are there? I was wondering what the hell O'Donnell was talking about on Countdown.

[BootinUp]

43. and how many vote in primaries?

and how many will change their party affiliation to vote in the primary...

[PatSeg]

18. I heard that yesterday

and I'd already figured it out. This was a political ploy and if a candidate compromises too often to get a certain block of voters, he/she eventually will alienate too many people.

[sunonmars]

9. They were not bloody Democrats

I think Obama is waltzing people up the garden path and if he gets elected will then take them into the woodshed and whoop them.

He's a panderer of the 1st degree and as President i dont think he can be trusted at all. My gut tells me otherwise.

[nancyr]

10. Reagan, again?

What is all this malarkey about Reagan this week? Have I missed something? Reagan was a senile old man who started the whole destruction ball rolling. He was no statesman. He was playing a role, and he was a lousy actor. If I cared about him I'd be a republican.

[redqueen]

56. Obama decided to praise his skills as an agent of change...

and didn't qualify his statements *at all*, even though they are quite easily interpreted as a slam on Bill Clinton. It's an ugly, ugly mess.

Oh, and in case you missed this: he also said the republican party has been the party of ideas since Clinton's first term.

Lovely stuff, no?

[ClericJohnPreston]

86. RIGHT ON, redqueen!

I don't respect cynical campaigns with a win at all costs mentality, if what is sacrificed, is your soul.

I know Democrats, and Mr. Obama is no real Democrat, but a centrist appeasor or Repub-lite!

[robcon]

17. Many Democrats voted for Reagan in '84.

That's the conclusions of many analyses of the '84 voting, when Reagan won 49 of 50 states...

"The classic study of Reagan Democrats is probably the work of the Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg. Greenberg analyzed white ethnic voters (largely unionized auto workers) in Macomb County, Michigan, just north of Detroit. The county voted 63 percent for John F. Kennedy in 1960, but 66 percent for Reagan in 1984. He concluded that "Reagan Democrats" no longer saw Democrats as champions of their middle-class aspirations, but instead saw them as working primarily for the benefit of others: the very poor, the unemployed, African Americans, and other political pressure groups. In addition, Reagan Democrats enjoyed gains during the period of economic prosperity that coincided with the Reagan administration following the "malaise" of the Carter administration. They also supported Reagan's strong stance on national security and opposed the 1980s Democratic Party on such issues as pornography, crime, and taxes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_Democrat

[gaspee]

19. Snort

Those people weren't Democrats. They were overwhelmingly white, middle-class, conservative christians who were registered Democrats through tradition.

The Republican "base" actually.

Ronnie Raygun was a media creation. He was an evil man.

[William769]

22. Many of them were racists also.

[redqueen]

58. Very much so. Which makes invoking his name as an agent of change

all the more disgusting... when you consider the kind of people he so eagerly courted. Ugh.

[Crunchy Frog]

29. Well, alot of people voted Reagan in '84 who voted Democratic

in almost all other elections. It's unfortunate but true. He would not have won 49 states and 58.8% of the vote otherwise. I have met alot of hardcore Democratic activists who admit to having voted for Reagan.

Pretending that reality doesn't exist is usually a Republican game, and does not serve us well IMO.

Yes, he was an evil man, but one who was able to persuade many Democrats to vote for him.

[dkf]

21. Obama is trying to include more people in the Democratic party

I see a lot of people on this board who don't want to include more people. Who say "if you don't think like me, stay out".

Is that any way to gain votes?

[Cameron27]

28. It makes me sick

to watch the fawning over Reagan by the Republicans, and it makes even sicker to listen to Obama praise him and repeat the RW tripe about the excesses of the 60's and 70's.

If he wants to attract new voters, this isn't the way to pander for them.

[totodeinhere]

36. Obama did not praise Reagan

He said that Reagan changed the direction of politics in this country, but he didn't say whether it was good or bad.

[polichick]

53. He purposely didn't say it was a change for the worse...

And used the terms "optimism" and "clarity" ~ both positive.

He knew what he was doing, and that he was screwing liberals over to do it.

[ClericJohnPreston]

30. Is appealing to the Dark Side

appealing to you?


Is winning at all costs so important,you would sell out your own Party and it's core Principles, in exchange for a calculated, cynical "bi-partsianship"?

Sorry, I'm not buying that and neither would any Edwards supporter, because we don't blindly accept form over substance.

Give up the substantive issues and you have thrown away that which separates a Democrat from a Conservative.

[dkf]

95. And Obama has sold out what core value?

To me he looks like a center left guy asking everyone to take a look at him without prejudice.

He is asking them to open their minds to him.

[IndianaJones]

24. my dad did. nt.

[redqueen]

61. My stupid aunt did... she's a a full-on fundie repuke now.

At the time, my parents told me what a sucker she was for buying the second- (or third-) rate actor's two-bit, phony schtick.

[IndianaJones]

71. my dad was a lifelong Dem...he was in the Army and pretty much...

everyone voted for Reagan in the military.

[Azathoth]

26. Good idea, we need to have a loyalty test before people can be Democrats

If you voted for Reagan, we don't want your stinkin vote! We don't much like yer type round these parts!

Truly a novel campaign strategy.

[William769]

32. With what those people stand for, your damn right I want nothing to do with them.

[Azathoth]

35. That's the ticket! Tell everyone who voted for Reagan to go fuck themselves

We can still win an election with 38% - 40% of the electorate, right?

[William769]

37. I have been doing it for 25 some odd years, and I will continue to do it.

Yep baby thats the ticket! Homophobes, racists killing the poor. You can all go straight to fucking hell where your mentor is spending his eternity now.

[Azathoth]

39. It never occurred to you that some of those voters might regret their votes?

I know more than a few people who voted for Dubya in 2000, and are more than a little contrite about it.

[William769]

44. Has it ever occurred to you that Obama fucked up with this message?

I see some back peddling now. :eyes:

[Azathoth]

48. Back pedaling? Where?

You of course didn't answer my question.

[ClericJohnPreston]

34. Winning

at the cost of your soul is a pyrrhic victory.

Voting your conscience isn't about campaign strategy, except for CYNICAL campaigns like Obama's.

You can take your winning at any cost strategy and be a Repub-lite.

Sorry, but that option isn't part of the core principles of the Democratic Party of FDR, JFK, or John Edwards.

[Azathoth]

38. Did you know Edwards co-sponsored Lieberman's Iraq War bill in 2002?

Along with Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond? Glad to see he stood by the 'core principles of the Democratic Party'.

Uh-oh, here comes COGNITIVE DISSONANCE again...:rofl:

[babylonsister]

40. Ouch! I can't wait for the comeback on this one!

:popcorn:

[ClericJohnPreston]

93. And here it is.....

Do you know your own candidate's voting record?

When you go the store, do you look at the date on the product you purchase? Milk, meats? Why? Why is the date and time important?

Umm, because it adds context. How many times have I seen Obamites take credit for Obama's repudiation of the drug culture, as he readily admits to experimentation. I don't like Obama as a candidate, but I have never argued drugs as a reason. More importantly, I judge him by what he says TODAY.

READ THAT WORD, "TODAY".

I look at Hillary today and she is still a Corporatist shill, surrounded by Corporatist shill surrogates, campaign managers and handlers.

I look at Obama TODAY, not the drug user of yesteryear. TODAY, he speaks of appeasement and Centrism and of Reagan as an agent for change.I negatively judge Obama for what he is saying TODAY.

What does John Edwards speak to TODAY. He is as anti-corporate as they come and has ALWAYS been that way. There was never a moment when he wasn't anti-corporatist. I should know, we are in the same field of personal injury Trial Law and you can't practice in our specialty and not detest the cravenn greed of Insurance Companies and their ilk. I know you have to pummel them, to get what is deserved, as they will never willingly sit around a table and fairly negotiate.

But, you Obamites know NOTHING of this Reality, do you? You merely accept, rote and verse what is preached at you.

Sorry, not buying from that Huckster.

Thus, endeth the lesson.

[babylonsister]

94. Just don't forget: Winning at the cost of your soul is a phyrric victory, and

voting your conscience isn't about campaign strategy. I know politicians make errors in judgment depending on the time frame, but I'm surprised to learn souls and consciences can fluctuate so rapidly and often.

I'm not here to denigrate your candidate, just so you know, even if you don't feel likewise.

[TwilightZone]

41. Lieberman, Helms, and Thurmond: a trifecta!

[redqueen]

64. How could anyone miss that? It's ancient history, and it's discussed to death.

Obama's recent flare up of foot-in-mouth disease, though... fresh, new, and exciting!

[Azathoth]

76. Yeah, politics is a lot like porn

Once you've watched it, it just ain't exciting anymore. Gotta find something new and fresh.

Of course, some of us will always enjoy going back and replaying the "classics" every now and then :)

[redqueen]

78. Oh yeah! And if Obama gets the nod...

the whole "wasn't Reagan great" thing will come back to bite him... I know that's not what he said, but you know how the GOP plays... it will be ugly. I hope he has a plan to deal with it should he win... and I hope his results in CA are worth the damage.

[Azathoth]

82. I would be interested to see how the GOP spins it

Insinuating that Obama is a closet Reagan supporter doesn't seem to me like a particularly effective line of attack, particularly when you consider that the conservative base despises all of the GOP candidates. But who knows.

[redqueen]

85. No, God no, they wouldn't do that... who would care?

No, what they'll do is take the praise of Reagan's skills, and probably also his 'Republicans are the party of ideas since Clinton was elected' crap, and use it woo ill-informed Independents away from him.

[Azathoth]

88. Well, I suppose they will try

But I still don't see it as being terribly effective. The GOP goes for the lowest common denominator, so I suspect they'll focus more on the "Obama is a Muslim sleeper cell" kind of stuff.

[redqueen]

90. They'll throw it all out there.

The Muslim shit will be thrown out for the freeper types...

The "Reagan was good, don't you miss all that optimism?" and "We're the party of ideas... he said so himself! Ha ha!" stuff will be thrown out for the (allegedly) "thoughtful Independent" types.

[totodeinhere]

42. That is the attitude that caused the Dems...

To lose seven out of the last ten presidential elections. Do you want to remain ideologically pure and lose the next election too, or do you want to run a smart campaign and win?

[redqueen]

68. No, kissing up to repukes is how we've alienated many in our own party. (nt)

[totodeinhere]

91. The ultimate kising up to the Repukes...

Would be to run an incompetent campaign and let them win the next election again. I'm sure that you wouldn't want to see that happen.

This is all about tactics and how best to win.

[redqueen]

92. Right... and I think you and I would disagree

about what tactics would best help us win in the GE. :hi:

[LanternWaste]

27. I was a Republican when I voted for him...

I was a Republican when I voted for him (cast my first vote my senior year in HS in '84), but I took a combination of penicillin and Tylenol which cleared that pesky little rash right up and I've been a Democrat ever since voting only for Democrats.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. Did Hillary Clinton vote for him?

Was she still with the Young Republicans when he ran?

[William769]

57. You already know the answer to that, but nice try.

:rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. Actually, no I don't.

When did she leave the Young Republicans and who was the last Republican she voted for?

[William769]

62. Look up her Bio and when she was first lady and you will have your answer.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

63. She was still a Young Republican when she was First Lady?

So she voted for Bush?

[William769]

65. You tell me you made the accusation.

As usual with nothing to back it up.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

69. I'm just asking.

Seems to me Hillary has a lot more experience than Obama at being a Republican.

[William769]

73. Seems like your talking out your bottom end.

But hey thats ok, I'm not the one looking like a fool.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. Do you think so?

Because a few weeks from now this will all be over. And we'll be able to look back. And regardless of the outcome of the primary, one of us is going to be looking very stupid.

But it ain't going to be me.

[William769]

77. Me either, so is it your imaginary friend?

Fo someone so dead set against Hillary, you seem to know nothing about her, given your previous posts here in this sub thread. Just some food for thought.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

80. I know she voted for the IWR.

I know she voted for the bankruptcy bill.

I know she supported anti-flag burning legislation, and likes to throw her weight around when it comes to other forms of censorship.

I know she'll sell out American principles and lives to earn a few points in the polls.

See, the difference between you and me is that I have legitimate reasons to criticize the candidate that I don't like.

[William769]

81. But you try to stir the pot with bullshit.

Have had your number for awhile.

P.S. So do I, and it's not just Hillary supporters doing it. Your memehas been broken now for awhile.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

83. LOL

Oh you're hilarious.

Maybe when you look back on this in a few weeks you'll realize my "stirring the pot" is just satire of your lame attempts at the same.

[we can do it]

70. You Had To Be A Total Dumbass To Even CONSIDER Voting Foe Raygun

Kinda like anyone who voted for *. No amount of BS can make this monster a hero to anyone with any kind of brain.

[ChiciB1]

87. No Matter... Still Doesn't Mean Squat Since He did All the Crap He Did!!

Just goes to show that most people just want to go with a "perceived winner!" Very simple, I know some friends who were very unhappy after they voted for him... but they were Indies!

Doesn't mean HE WAS THE BEST CHOICE!!

[Lugnut]

89. Not this one.

In my 62 years I have never met a Republican who could get my vote.