Obama is not running for president!

[Auntie Bush]

He's running to be the new Martin Luther King! I really think he's more interested in that than solving the problems of our country. He talks more about a possible movement than he discusses HOW to solve our country's problems. Now flame away...in spite of the fact that I think this is the first anti Obama thread I've posted...so you know I believe this is correct and important. It's actually not that anti-Obama...it's just calling to attention that he's actually NOT campaigning for president because he thinks/wants to solve the problems of the war, deficit or middle class but because he wants to start a movement...and he's been very successful about that. As far as that is concerned...it could be taken up later. NOW is the time to solve problems and kick Rethug ass...not dividing Dems on racial issues. Sorry, this has been bothering me for awhile and I had to finally post it. OK...now I've got on my asbestos pant suit.

[kikiek]

1. Personally I have come to the conclusion that you are right.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

2. The timing of his candidacy is very poor

His rationale would have made sense in 1992 or 200. And it might make sense a few years from now.

But this is the worst possible time to declare peace with the Republican party.

[babylonsister]

23. His timing is poor? Sure. Now, when we need someone

who wants to take this country in a different direction, you call that poor timing? I think it's fantastic timing. Many do.
Just because you don't like him gives you no right to judge.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

45. I have no right to "judge" (meaning disagree with you)?

You "think it's fantastic timing."

And I have "no right to judge" because I don't like him.

I don't dislike him for his table manners or something. I don't know that I dislike HIM at all. I like him more than I like Hillary. I can't stand Hillary. I would much rather be stranded on a desert isle with Barack than Hillary.

But I dislike his political philosophy and tone, for reasons stated.

When you get into the "none may deny the chosen one" zone where you are telling people they have no right to disagree with you, you've gone around the bend into cultist territory.

bye

[babylonsister]

51. I didn't go there, and you don't like criticism.

Who are you to judge when he thinks his timing is right? You claim he should have had the party and this time in history in mind. Well, I contend that's exactly what he was thinking when he decided to run.

[Catshrink]

3. ...

:popcorn:

[Maddy McCall]

6. Why I love being an Edwards supporter at DU.

Let them scratch each others' eyeballs out. I'll sit and watch.

[Catshrink]

14. Exactly

[havocmom]

65. Move over on your bench, Maddy.

Make room for me too. I've got tea and cookies...

Hey, did ya see the thread with this link re Edwards?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/news/story?id=3198479

It's a good read

[HughBeaumont]

74. I would love it too . . .

. . . but our Dem voters, for whatever messed up reason, seem to love these two to pieces and think our guy is "untrustworthy".

I officially live in Bizarro land. Absolutely amazing and astounding.

[tammywammy]

Hey, I'm an Obama supporter

But can I have in on some of that?

:popcorn:

[Catshrink]

40. Sure -- come on over.

Obama's my second choice. And if Hillary is the nominee, I will support her.

DU -- more entertaining than the McLaughlin Group.

[babylonsister]

42. Ha!

:thumbsup:

[graywarrior]

4. Just watched his speech on C-SPAN

I orgasmed on being inspired. I love Obama. But I want to make republicans lives miserable. I can't get over that.

[Auntie Bush]

20. And who better can make Rethug lives more miserable and frightening?

You got it.... HILLARY CLINTON! You go girl! Kick some Rethug asses and drive them crazy. Oh I forgot...they already are.

[graywarrior]

47. I'm so confoozed!

[Donna Zen]

63. Oh but he will

drive them crazy because many of their rank and file will support Obama. There is one thing that the politicals do well: count votes. If they see they polls turn against them, they will support for and vote Obama's policies. Yes, it does mean that we must stand together. Ah, well that's what Obama is doing, organizing. As long as the nation is polarized the people get nothing. That sense of organization is the what the OP views as Obama's attempt to be MLK. I disagree. Obama is trying to apply the principles that bring about political change to the broader application. That is indeed what Reagan did when he, the republicans, and the reagan democrats turned this country away from the New Deal. Now Obama wants to change the direction again and bring us back on course.

[liberalnurse]

5. I never thought about it that way.......

Interesting concept and it does speak to the fact he is bound for greatness if not today, definitely in the future.

[Auntie Bush]

57. I agree with that! He is bound for greatness.

I just wish it was 8 years from now. First we have to trounce Rethugs and THEN have this movement.

[sandnsea]

7. I swear this is the stupidest post ever

I've never seen such hatred for someone who just wants to bury conservatism and put the country and world on a united path that cares for each other.

[Barack_America]

8. Agreed. A new low on DU. n/t

[Kittycat]

13. Perfect response. Completely agreement.

What signifies the democratic spirit more than unity? It's all about working together for the greater good and a better future for our children.

[Tennessee Gal]

16. It takes more than speechifying to do that.

[juajen]

25. I know there are many people who would love that

Unfortunately, realism raises its ugly head. You absolutely cannot trust Republicans, and that also goes for some Democrats. So, I guess Pollybama's time is in the future, and hopefully, it's soon. I am putting on my hardhat now, so ya'll go ahead and fire.

[sandnsea]

30. You sure can't trust either Clinton

You'll need your hardhat for the times you're going to be banging your head against the wall for ever supporting her if she becomes President.

[Auntie Bush]

35. FIRE!

But with :loveya:...not bullets/words.

[Auntie Bush]

31. That's funny coming from someone who has posted more than their share.

:rofl: I'm all for what he stands for...just not now! Now I want to crush those damn Rethugs...not give them a hug! Anyone can bring peace between enemies...all you have to do is agree/forgive or cozy up to them. Edwards has a good point! I say go after them, crush them, not conjoin/coddle them. Screw them!

[sandnsea]

37. I actually never get that response

Nobody has ever responded to me with "stupidest post ever", not once in 5 years.

Edwards is not talking about crushing every Republican in the country either. The entire premise of his run is that he can win over those people who have been voting against their own economic interest, red state REPUBLICANS. You think he's going to get their vote by beating them over the head?

Stupid. Like I said.

[Two Americas]

60. a distinction needs to be made

There is an enormous difference between the Republican leadership and the misguided people - our friends, neighbors, co-workers and family members - who have been fooled into supporting the Republican party.

Likewise, there is an enormous difference between calling for reaching out to those everyday people who have been voting Republican and calling for reaching out to the Republican politicians, leadership, and their wealthy sponsors.

[sandnsea]

62. The misguided don't recognize the difference

for one. For another, an awful lot of them don't think they're misguided at all. They believe in Christian values and they do not believe the government should be in the social welfare business. It's what they believe. When they get elected to Congress, they are part of this country and have a Constitutional right to represent their constituents and have a voice.

The problem is that Edwards people are on a rampage and not even trying to understand what Obama has said. He consistently is one of the few who gets both the big picture and the nuance right. He understands we are up against the Reagan Revolution, a movement, that will be there with or without these neocons. He understands that without a counter movement, we won't be able to do anything except tinker around the edges the way Bill Clinton did. He also understands that it takes a massive seachange in what people believe and that a seachange comes from a positive vision.

That isn't to say he doesn't know there will be times where you just have to go after them and beat them. He has also said that. But DU doesn't want to hear it because they would have to use different talking points besides "kumbaya" and it wouldn't be very fun to listen to John Edwards if you couldn't ridicule Barack Obama in the process.

In the meantime, Hillary walks to the nomination and 3/4 of the country doesn't even want her. Talk about stupid.

[Two Americas]

83. response

I meant that we need to make a distinction. What you are describing is a stereotype of blue collar people, one that is popular with more affluent and upscale people. I have traveled, lived, and worked in rural areas for decades all over the country, including the deep South and Appalachia, the Midwest and other "red" areas and in the poorest parts of the country and I do not find any merit or accuracy in your stereotype.

The misguided don't recognize the difference for one. For another, an awful lot of them don't think they're misguided at all. They believe in Christian values and they do not believe the government should be in the social welfare business. It's what they believe. When they get elected to Congress, they are part of this country and have a Constitutional right to represent their constituents and have a voice.

I find that they are better able to make a distinction between the ruling class and themselves than more upscale people. In fact, I am certain of it. This is betrayed by the language people use. When upscale people talk about "the country" they invariably are referring to the rulers - the wealthy and powerful - and they say "we" when referring to them. "We" invaded Iraq, for example. Blue collar people mean their friends, family, and neighbors when they say "the country" and refer to those people as "we" and make a clear distinction between that and the rulers. They are more likely to say "they" invaded Iraq.

"Christianity" is a red herring. The religious right wants us to make this connection. I have worked in hundreds of AA churches around the country. The church is an important foundation for the community, and in no way is a source of right wing politics. Likewise, working in poor Catholic parishes in the cities, they are wellsprings of social outreach, humanitarianism and compassion and heavily involved in charity work in communities where you will never see a suburban liberal. Never.

The problem is that Edwards people are on a rampage and not even trying to understand what Obama has said. He consistently is one of the few who gets both the big picture and the nuance right. He understands we are up against the Reagan Revolution, a movement, that will be there with or without these neocons. He understands that without a counter movement, we won't be able to do anything except tinker around the edges the way Bill Clinton did. He also understands that it takes a massive seachange in what people believe and that a seachange comes from a positive vision.

Supporting Edwards has nothing to do with being against Obama. I agree with what you say about Obama, and I don't attack him, and the 20 most outspoken Edwards supporters I know don't either.

I agree with the need for a mass movement. You and I have a disagreement perhaps as to how to achieve that. Minor, I would say.

That isn't to say he doesn't know there will be times where you just have to go after them and beat them. He has also said that. But DU doesn't want to hear it because they would have to use different talking points besides "kumbaya" and it wouldn't be very fun to listen to John Edwards if you couldn't ridicule Barack Obama in the process.

Again, I see no connection between supporting Edwards and ridiculing Obama. If there are people doing that, I would call them on it.

In the meantime, Hillary walks to the nomination and 3/4 of the country doesn't even want her. Talk about stupid.

We are in complete agreement there.

[Auntie Bush]

61. Now that was the stupidest post ever!

Now you can't brag about that anymore! :rofl: I could have said it many times but I was too polite!

[sandnsea]

64. Personal attacks, that's more like it

That's what I usually get when people can't argue the point.

[Auntie Bush]

70. It seems to me that I've been arguing the point. Didn't you get my message?

Maybe you should read this post again.

By the way...why is it a personal attack to say that but it isn't when you say it? :shrug:

[sandnsea]

71. Oh but I argued the point

I didn't attack you as routinely making stupid posts. Maybe you need to reread all that you said.

[Mass]

38. With Clinton, we will deal with them in dark rooms, rather than engaging them in public and

potentially change some of their supporters' mind.

This is what this is about. Do we want to change things or do we want to continue the same old things. With Clinton, for sure, we will go on with a small tweaking. With Obama (or Edwards even if differently), there is a chance things will change.

[hfojvt]

82. I have got the throw the challenge flag

Nobody takes my title without a fight.

I say this is still the stupidest post ever
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=2309056#2309404

The original and still the best.

[Frances]

9. I agree with you

I think Obama is too far to the right for me.

And I think he has run a divisive campaign that could hurt the party in the general.

However, I am a Dem and if he wins the nomination I will support him.

I think he will include Repubs in his cabinet and I think he will be too supportive of corporations, but I think any Repub candidate would be worse.

[Auntie Bush]

68. I will HAPPILY vote for him too if he's our nominee

But I hate the way race has been brought into this whole equations and dividing our party where we used to have unity regarding race. This whole thing has opened up a huge can of worms which is only going to get much worse! Unfortunately and it wasn't necessary as ace hadn't been an issue.

But I know that is what will happen when the first black or Hispanic man tries to run for president. That's just the way it is! It certainly isn't Obama's fault.

[Duncan Grant]

10. All hat and no cattle.

Ask LGBT people about hope and change.

[Tennessee Gal]

11. I caught some of his speech this morning at the church.

I came to the same conclusion as you.

I admire so much about him, but his soaring rhetoric is not the solution to this nation's problems.

Plain talk and actions for the betterment of all Americans are the only solutions.

[tabatha]

43. Is he supposed to spout political proposals

at church???????

I thought he went quite far (possibly too far) in bringing politics into the church.

Good grief!

[Tennessee Gal]

44. Good grief right back at ya!

People are enamored of Obama because he is a brilliant orator. It takes more than that.

[Adelante]

12. He is running for president

I swear.

[Auntie Bush]

49. Actually I really know that! Honestly !

But I don't really think the "movement" way is the way to do that. I'd like some more meat about his policies now and to keep the specifying till later or next time. Now it's time to beat Republicans...not kind of/sort of join them or understand them. I want to make WAR on the Republicans way of life/politics...not start a racial war which seems to be happening and I'm sure will get worse. He may be helping us unite better with Rethugs but he isn't helping to unite Democrats. It makes me very sad
:cry: to see us all so divisive and divided now, especially along racial lines where we used to be united. I really didn't mean this post to be anti Obama...I really love the guy but not his present objective. But when a black man runs against a white woman...it can't help but eventually become racial. That's a damn shame, but true. Now let's go kick us some Rethuglican asses.

[Little Star]

15. I have my own movement every morning after coffee.

Don't like stinkin' revival meetings.

[Tennessee Gal]

18. ROFL!

:rofl:

[Mass]

17. Because MLK was dividing Dems on racial issues?

NOW is the time to solve problems and kick Rethug ass...not dividing Dems on racial issues.

:eyes:

[Zynx]

24. Considering the nature of the Party at the time, that statement is true.

About a third of our party was a bunch of good ol' southern fried racists.

[Mass]

26. So, it was MLK who was dividing, not the racists?\nt

[The_Casual_Observer]

19. Obama is a little light on the 5 point plans. However, he does give a rousing

speech.

[sandnsea]

27. His poverty plan is the best around

He gives people credit for having the intellectual curiosity to read.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/poverty/

[Skwmom]

52. Anyone can espouse plans. The question is can you trust the

Clintons to keep their word? Based on their conduct today I would say a big HECK NO. Furthermore, what exactly is going to get accomplished in a bitterly divided country?

[msongs]

21. obama says you're ALL sinners even if you don't follow his religion so get over it nt

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2677360

[KittyWampus]

34. wow, Obama's phrasing was wonderful. You purposely misconstrued that statement.

Congratulations.

[Kucinich4America]

22. Hillary is not running for president!

Just like Chimpy, she thinks she's entitled to the job.

[Captain_Nemo]

59. And where did you get that? Seems to me she is working like hell for the job.

[gdaerin]

80. Now that I agree with! nt

[KennedyGuy]

28. Fantastic post..an easy rec!

[robbedvoter]

29. More like the new Al Sharpton

Someone who doesn't give a damn about the fights of the 60s and 70s should not even say "MLK"

[jenmito]

32. It took a president to write MLK's "dream" into law...

if Obama is president, he could be both MLK and LBJ.

[Tulkas]

33. Remember, MLK never had the option of running

IF we had a nation in the 60s that did not discriminate, it is possible that MLK may have been a political leader, he was certainly capable of rallying support. People died for him (not the way people die for Bush) they willingly risked and sometimes lost their lives because he inspired them to take action against injustice.

The fact that you can denigrate MLK in any way shape or form is a disgrace.

[Cha]

41. Nothing new for the hillarys..

Thanks for bringing this up about the presidency and MLK..Bobby Kennedy said that in 40 years maybe this country would be ready for a "Negro" to be President:)

[Auntie Bush]

72. Huh! "The fact that you can denigrate MLK in any way shape or form is a disgrace."

Where did you get that idea? I never even mentioned MLK. Now I know how Hillary felt when people look for fault when there is none. Talk about fake outrage!

[FrenchieCat]

36. I think that this is low and in extreme bad taste coming from you......

because I have always though better of you....especially saying this on MLK jr. birthday.

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing to run on an MLK platform that speaks of social justice, end of the war, and unity. Maybe that is better than to only knock on Black church doors or speak of MLK during his birthday each election year.

But the way that you have presented this makes me extremely disappointed in you.

If you would take off your partisan blinders and listen to this interview, then you would not say, what you are saying; that you don't know what OBama is offering--But of course, maybe you just don't really want to know. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2008/01/18/MNSNUH7GC.DTL&o=0&type=politics

If I chose not to listen to Hillary Clinton, than I could just as easily say that I'm not sure what she's "done" although she says that a lot. She seems to be running as though she's Bill Clinton.

[Auntie Bush]

73. Sorry Frenchie!

Actually I thought of you when I posted this and why I didn't and haven't criticized Obana before. Too many of my Clark friends (I guess now x-friends) are Obama friends. That puts one between a rock and a hard place. I've tried to keep my comments to supporting Hillary and defending her against some vicious comments and people and not criticizing Obama.

Please accept my apologies as I really, honest to God, cross my heart, forgot it was MLK day. I know now that is hard to believe, but it's true. I wouldn't have posted this today if I had remembered. That would have been/was crass and I didn't mean to do that. As a white person I really haven't been as attentive to MLK day as I SHOULD have been. I haven't been watching TV (except for the primaries) and haven't been following Obana's speeches. I just don't like the "movement" tone of voice which one gets without really following the details of his speeches. I'm just saying here is that I want him to run on politics and policies... that's the essence of my post. It wasn't meant to be as critical as I guess it came across. Again, my apologies if I seemed to disrespect MLK. Now I realize how Hillary felt and why someone up thread (post 17 and 72 and I guess others) commented on MLK. Now I understand why and I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

PS - I hope this won't make you change your mind about what we discussed via email as he had nothing to do with this and needs your help.

[BeyondGeography]

39. Obama is an elected official with an accomplished record

and as detailed a set of plans as any candidate.

You've embarrassed yourself with this post.

[Skwmom]

46. Unifying this country is going to be REQUIRED if we are to

tackle the tough problems. The Clintons will have this country and party so divided NOTHING will get done in DC. And who does bitter partisanship benefit? Hint: Not the American Public.

[Tennessee Gal]

48. "He talks more about a possible movement than he discusses HOW to solve our country's problems. "

That is the truth. Some just don't want to face it.

[FrenchieCat]

69. Well, all I hear from John Edwards is a litany of what is wrong with this country....

and how he will fight. He doesn't go beyond that. Listen to his speeches. I only hear him listing the problems. The solutions are never given much lip service tho.

[JohnnyLib2]

50. I don't agree with the "non-running" idea, but his first book

shows how his outlook--and view of himself and his role--is continually being refined. I don't think it is too far out to see him in a Gore-like position in the future, having sort of veered away from seeking office.

But, we don't know--that could be after becoming President, or not ???

[enid602]

53. crisis

I don't know why, but this presidential campaign season is starting to remind me of all the real estate and mortgage hype that lead up to the subprime/real estate crisis. I hope we're not all eventually disappointed.

[kevsand]

54. You've got it exactly backwards.

The problems we face can not be solved by a President alone, or Bill would have solved them all a decade ago. Just as it takes a village to raise a child, it takes a movement to fix this country. No signficant change in this country has ever been possible without such a movement.

Because of his background as a community organizer, Obama understands this historical fact in a way few others have. Obama may be the first candidate in our history to understand that a Presidential campaign can and must incorporate such a movement in order to be truly successful.

[babylonsister]

56. Great post; this thread could be saved yet! nt

[Two Americas]

84. yes

I am an Edwards supporter, but I won't hesitate to agree with you here. You are highlighting Obama's greatest strength in my opinion.

I also appreciate the more in-depth analysis behind your post. We need more of that. Thanks.

[aaronbees]

86. Thank you

That's exactly it. :applause:

[Sparkly]

55. I think he frames his campaign as a movement

which isn't new. Making a campaign a movement generates excitement, largely because of what it purports to go against, no matter how vague.

The danger is that 'going against' can cause division, I think -- for example, along generational lines. A movement also requires a charismatic leader and unless there's a really strong identity, structure and purpose to the movement, if the leader falters the whole thing can collapse.

Just my opinion -- he is running for president, but generating enthusiasm by framing his campaign as a movement, a cause, something new and different.

[Captain_Nemo]

58. I agree. Excellent post.

[Imagevision]

66. The notion is silly, Obama won more delegates then the witch...

[tammywammy]

67. There's no need to call her names

[Kucinich4America]

89. I would have to agree

That's an insult to witches.

[Jed Dilligan]

75. We're going into full-tilt economic decline

Leadership is going to be more important than partisanship.

[jillan]

76. I have to laugh because someone once gave my father a sign that said -

Start a movement -

Eat a prune.

Maybe Hillary should send Obama some prunes :)

[citizen snips]

77. Thanks for the laugh

[dkf]

78. Well of course he sounds like MLK today. It's his birthday

for goodness sakes.

And the problem isn't that the candidates don't have plans...it is that they can't get them passed because there is no movement of popular support.

[Auntie Bush]

81. Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that we don't have a veto proof congress

to fight against a rubber stamp Rethug party. We can change that next November. It makes me sick to think bush has a whole year to go to screw up this country.

[dkf]

85. Yup, no veto proof congress. So who has coattails is also a big deal.

[gdaerin]

79. No, no, no I don't agree, c'mon, how old are you?

This is ridiculous,

I don't even understand your argument! Did you give one?

I don't understand, we don't need another MLK, not exactly anyway.

I mean, we're not segregated anymore, african americans are free to ride any bus or drink out of any water fountain they want to

Ok, i know what this is, you just want attention, and I fell right into your trap, damn.

Well, I'm not playing your game anymore, this is a waste of my time!

[tomreedtoon]

87. He's running for President...of the Student Council.

He's exactly like the kids I knew in high school, especially the black ones, that gave these inspiring speeches in order to become the president of the Student Council. That's a post that has no real power, since the Principal and the Teachers have all the real power. It's a pretend position to make the students think they have a voice in their lives.

But Obama believes in the Student Council. He believes that he will have real power as he goes around inspiring people and glad-handing. And the Trumps and the Redstones get richer, and the war goes on.

[midnight]

88. I agree with your statement below:

"NOW is the time to solve problems and kick Rethug ass...not dividing Dems on racial issues"