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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:30 PM
Original message
Spinal Examination Coming Up For Dem Candidates !!!
If what we are hearing today on Haiti is determined to be accurate, it's gonna be REAL interesting to see how our guys respond.

Link to what supposedly happened today: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1178948

I realize the situation is still too fresh to have all the facts, but IF Aristide was taken away in handcuffs by U.S. Marines against his will, and is being held incommunicado by our government...

Mealy mouthed platitudes will not be acceptable, ya know???

:shrug:


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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. democrats??
move on nothing to see-got an election to lose. some will have the courage- others will remain silent and cower in fear...there will be no coordinated voice of opposition to bush.
maybe byrd will rise up and give a speech .....
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Kerry is not happy with the way Bush engineered the coup
Kerry wanted it done a lot more quietly!

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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Be honest
Kerry has said that Bush* is responsible for the coup, and that the US should have intervened to keep Aristide in power. That's probably why you didn't post any links
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Statement from John Kerry on Haiti
Statement from John Kerry on Haiti
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0224i.html

“The current crisis in Haiti is yet another example of Bush Administration neglect in our own hemisphere. Instead of working to support democratic institutions for the past three years, this Administration has seemed intent on bringing about regime change by encouraging the opposition and cutting off aid from the United States and international financial institutions.

“When the situation on the ground began to degenerate into violence and lawlessness over the past weeks, the Administration stubbornly refused to engage diplomatically. As a result, Haiti is now on the verge of collapsing into a failed state, potentially creating untold hardships for the Haitian people and an enormous influx of refugees on our shores.
“The Administration has now finally realized that it must work multilaterally to broker a power sharing agreement between the parties – the only question is why they didn’t do this sooner. By waiting until the 11th hour to take action, they have made a peaceful resolution that much more difficult to achieve.

“Even now, we must do more to preserve the democratic process. It is not enough for the Secretary of State to make phone calls – we should immediately bring the full weight of U.S. diplomatic pressure to bear on the parties. In 1994, President Clinton sent Colin Powell to Haiti along with President Carter and Senator Sam Nunn to resolve the crisis. This President should do no less. If he won’t send Colin Powell, then he should name another special envoy who understands the Haitian people, understands their terrible problems, and understands the vital US interest in bringing peace and stability to Haiti.

“In addition to pursuing vigorous diplomacy, the U.S. should bring real leadership to restoring order by working to ensure that a multinational force -- including police from OAS and CARICOM nations, backed up by a visible show of US military force off the coast -- is sent to Haiti as soon as possible. Once the situation is stabilized, the U.S. should provide training and equipment to Haitian police forces, lift the restrictions on our bilateral aid, at least for health and education grants, and ensure that the international financial institutions to give aid in these areas to the government.

“America has a duty to advance our best ideals abroad. If we hope to lead the nations of the world towards a more democratic future, we must act now to protect a fragile democracy in our own backyard. Failure to act in Haiti will have direct consequences on our shores. There is no excuse for allowing this to happen.”


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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Statement from John Kerry Calling for Senator Bob Graham to be Named
Statement from John Kerry Calling for Senator Bob Graham to be Named SPecial Envoy To Haiti
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0226c.html

Statement from John Kerry Calling for Senator Bob Graham to be Named Special Envoy to Haiti


February 26, 2004

For Immediate Release


“Today I call on President Bush to appoint Senator Bob Graham as a Special Envoy to attempt to resolve the crisis in Haiti. Senator Graham has long been a leader in Florida and in the US Senate on foreign affairs. He knows the situation in Haiti extremely well, and knows the cost that widespread violence will cause not only in Haiti, but on our shores.

“The Bush Administration had only one hope for resolving the crisis in Haiti – an 11th hour proposal that has now been rejected by the opposition leaders. We must take further action now to support the rule of law in Haiti and prevent a widespread humanitarian crisis.
“Appointing Senator Graham as Special Envoy would demonstrate that our commitment to bringing peace, stability and respect for the rule of law to Haiti is genuine. In 1994, President Clinton appointed Colin Powell, former President Jimmy Carter and Senator Sam Nunn to Haiti to a high level delegation to restore democracy to Haiti. Recent events in Haiti have shown that it is past time for this Administration to take similar measures.

“Any Special Envoy will have their work cut out for them. The envoy needs to get the parties to agree on ending the political violence, as well as to address long-standing issues such as the release of political prisoners, and the need to rein in the paramilitaries in order to create the context where meaningful political dialogue can occur.

“I hope the President will take this opportunity to make use of Senator Graham’s extraordinary experience and skills to help us combat the downward spiral of civic violence in Haiti to avoid further loss of human life and further collapse of the Haitian political system.”

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morgan2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. its obvious what the responses will be
kucinich and sharpton will come out with strong condemnations
edwards and kerry will come out with weak condemnations
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. And the media will not report Sharpton's or Kucinich's pithy direct
condemnations.

Kerry and Edwards will have their embeds report how disturbed they are, follwed by wishy-washy statements or stronger statements, depending on which way the wind is blowing.
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sangha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Kerry has already spoken out strongly against Bush* and Haiti
He blamed Bush* for the situation. I don't expect him to give Bush* a pass on this. Nice to see people speak without the facts though. Keep up the good work!
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seg4527 Donating Member (851 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Since Dean is out, there is little hope of a major candidate taking astand
eom
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ThirdWheelLegend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Kucinich?
Edited on Mon Mar-01-04 03:47 AM by ThirdWheelLegend
Oh wait. I congratulate you on the use of the word 'major'!

I know, I hate having to mention Kucinich all the time! Why does he always gotta be speaking truth for the people?!

:)

TWL
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tobys Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Since Dean dropped out before Kucinich,
that would make him less major than Kucinich, wouldn't it?
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lastknowngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. Kerry will have a long winded and complicated answer which
takes no position except that it will sound slightly different than bush's
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ithacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think Kerry
denounced Bush for messing with Haiti a couple days ago. It was posted here but I can't find it right now.

I'd guess he's waiting now for confirmation of the most recent events before denouncing them. And I'd also guess that every Dem (except maybe Biden and Lieberman) will be out front denouncing this.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Statement from John Kerry on Haiti
Edited on Sun Feb-29-04 11:27 PM by bigtree
February 24, 2004
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0224i.html

“The current crisis in Haiti is yet another example of Bush Administration neglect in our own hemisphere. Instead of working to support democratic institutions for the past three years, this Administration has seemed intent on bringing about regime change by encouraging the opposition and cutting off aid from the United States and international financial institutions.

“When the situation on the ground began to degenerate into violence and lawlessness over the past weeks, the Administration stubbornly refused to engage diplomatically. As a result, Haiti is now on the verge of collapsing into a failed state, potentially creating untold hardships for the Haitian people and an enormous influx of refugees on our shores.
“The Administration has now finally realized that it must work multilaterally to broker a power sharing agreement between the parties – the only question is why they didn’t do this sooner. By waiting until the 11th hour to take action, they have made a peaceful resolution that much more difficult to achieve.

“Even now, we must do more to preserve the democratic process. It is not enough for the Secretary of State to make phone calls – we should immediately bring the full weight of U.S. diplomatic pressure to bear on the parties. In 1994, President Clinton sent Colin Powell to Haiti along with President Carter and Senator Sam Nunn to resolve the crisis. This President should do no less. If he won’t send Colin Powell, then he should name another special envoy who understands the Haitian people, understands their terrible problems, and understands the vital US interest in bringing peace and stability to Haiti.

“In addition to pursuing vigorous diplomacy, the U.S. should bring real leadership to restoring order by working to ensure that a multinational force -- including police from OAS and CARICOM nations, backed up by a visible show of US military force off the coast -- is sent to Haiti as soon as possible. Once the situation is stabilized, the U.S. should provide training and equipment to Haitian police forces, lift the restrictions on our bilateral aid, at least for health and education grants, and ensure that the international financial institutions to give aid in these areas to the government.

“America has a duty to advance our best ideals abroad. If we hope to lead the nations of the world towards a more democratic future, we must act now to protect a fragile democracy in our own backyard. Failure to act in Haiti will have direct consequences on our shores. There is no excuse for allowing this to happen.”
____________________________________________________________________

Statement from John Kerry Calling for Senator Bob Graham to be Named Special Envoy to Haiti
February 26, 2004
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0226c.html

“Today I call on President Bush to appoint Senator Bob Graham as a Special Envoy to attempt to resolve the crisis in Haiti. Senator Graham has long been a leader in Florida and in the US Senate on foreign affairs. He knows the situation in Haiti extremely well, and knows the cost that widespread violence will cause not only in Haiti, but on our shores.

“The Bush Administration had only one hope for resolving the crisis in Haiti – an 11th hour proposal that has now been rejected by the opposition leaders. We must take further action now to support the rule of law in Haiti and prevent a widespread humanitarian crisis.
“Appointing Senator Graham as Special Envoy would demonstrate that our commitment to bringing peace, stability and respect for the rule of law to Haiti is genuine. In 1994, President Clinton appointed Colin Powell, former President Jimmy Carter and Senator Sam Nunn to Haiti to a high level delegation to restore democracy to Haiti. Recent events in Haiti have shown that it is past time for this Administration to take similar measures.

“Any Special Envoy will have their work cut out for them. The envoy needs to get the parties to agree on ending the political violence, as well as to address long-standing issues such as the release of political prisoners, and the need to rein in the paramilitaries in order to create the context where meaningful political dialogue can occur.

“I hope the President will take this opportunity to make use of Senator Graham’s extraordinary experience and skills to help us combat the downward spiral of civic violence in Haiti to avoid further loss of human life and further collapse of the Haitian political system.”
___________________________________________________________________


Democrat Kerry Blames Bush 'Neglect' for Haiti Crisis
Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:11 PM ET
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=4430566

CLEVELAND (Reuters) - Democratic White House front-runner John Kerry on Tuesday blamed President Bush's "neglect" for the political instability in Haiti and called for the naming of a special envoy to help end the crisis.
The United States has sent about 50 Marines to the Haitian capital of Port-au-Prince to protect U.S. facilities and has pressed opposition politicians to accept a power-sharing plan meant to defuse an armed revolt against Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

"The current crisis in Haiti is yet another example of Bush administration neglect in our own hemisphere," Kerry said in a written statement. "As a result, Haiti is now on the verge of collapsing into a failed state, potentially creating untold hardships for the Haitian people and an enormous influx of refugees on our shores."

The Massachusetts senator, who is vying for the right to challenge Bush in the Nov. 2 presidential election, said despite the rise in violence and lawlessness over the past few weeks, the administration had "stubbornly refused to engage diplomatically."

"The administration has now finally realized that it must work multilaterally to broker a power-sharing agreement between the parties," he said. "By waiting until the eleventh hour to take action, they have made a peaceful resolution that much more difficult to achieve."
___________________________________________________________________

Kerry says US fueled conflict in Haiti
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/8054087.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

John Kerry is pointing to the worsening crisis in Haiti as an example of failed Bush administration foreign policy.
BY PETER WALLSTEN
pwallsten@herald.com

Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry accused President Bush's administration Thursday of fomenting conflict in Haiti out of ideological opposition to President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

Kerry called on Bush to name Florida Sen. Bob Graham, one-time rival for the Democratic nomination, to be a special envoy to the Caribbean nation to negotiate a peaceful resolution between Aristide and the rebels threatening to oust him from power.

Debating his Democratic rivals Thursday night in Los Angeles, Kerry accused the White House of withholdnig aid to Haiti until the opposition reached a power-sharing agreement with Aristide -- an approach that he said ensured the rebels would keep fighting.

''This administration has been engaged in very manipulative and wrongful ways,'' Kerry said. ``They have a theological and an ideological hatred for Aristide. They always have. They approached this so the insurgents were empowered by this administration.''
____________________________________________________________________

Kerry Assails Bush on Haiti
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/24/politics/campaign/24CND-KERR.html?hp

"I think the administration has missed a lot of opportunities, in fact, has exacerbated the situation over the last two years with its cutoff of humanitarian assistance and its attitude towards the Aristide administration," Mr. Kerry said. "So they sort of created the environment within which the insurgency could grow and take root, and now they're trying to manage it, I think."

Senator Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, made his comments during a wide-ranging discussion today with editors and reporters of The New York Times in advance of next Tuesday's New York presidential primary.

He said that if he were president, he would be pressing Haitian rebels to back off their goal of toppling Mr. Aristide, perhaps by threatening the deployment of an international peacekeeping force.

"I think you've got to be real and threatening," he said. His message to the rebels, he said, would be: "You're not going to take over, you're not kicking him out, this democracy is going to be sustained, we're willing to put in a new government, new prime minister, we're willing to work with you, but you're not going to succeed in your goal of exiling" Mr. Aristide. "And unless that's clear, you can't necessarily stop it in its tracks."
____________________________________________________________________

Kerry had this to say about the Bush administration's Haitian agenda:

"They have a theological and a ideological hatred for Aristide. They always have."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10722-2004Feb26.html
_____________________________________________________________________

From the past:

Aristide's electrifying accusations opened the floodgate of even more sinister revelations. Massachusetts senator John Kerry heads a subcommittee concerned with international terrorism and drug trafficking that turned up collusion between the CIA and drug traffickers during the late 1980s' Iran Contra hearings.

Kerry had developed detailed information on drug trafficking by Haiti's military rulers that led to the indictment in Miami in 1988, of Lt. Col. Jean Paul. The indictment was a major embarrassment to the Haitian military, especially since Paul defiantly refused to surrender to U.S. authorities. It was just a month before thousands of U.S. troops invaded Panama and arrested Manuel Noriega who, like Col. Paul, was also under indictment for drug trafficking in Florida.

The U.S. senate also heard testimony in 1988 that then interior minister, Gen. Williams Regala, and his DEA liaison officer, protected and supervised cocaine shipments. The testimony also charged the then Haitian military commander Gen. Henry Namphy with accepting bribes from Colombian traffickers in return for landing rights in the mid 1980's.

It was in 1989 that yet another military coup brought Lt. Gen. Prosper Avril to power. Under U.S. pressure Avril, the former finance chief under the 30-year Duvalier family dictatorship, fired 140 officers suspected of drug trafficking. Avril, who is currently living in Miami, is being sued by six Haitians, including Port-au-Prince mayor Evans Paul, who claim they were abducted and tortured by the Haitian military under Avril's orders in November 1989. According to a witness before Senator John Kerry's subcommittee, Avril is in fact a major player in Haiti's role as a transit point in the cocaine trade.

http://pdr.autono.net/haiti.html

Kerry Committee Report DEA's OPERATIONS IN MIAMI AND IN HAITI: http://www.webcom.com/~pinknoiz/covert/haiticoke.html
____________________________________________________________________


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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Good Statements All, But It's Time To Walk The Walk !!!
Like I've Said Umpteen times before, a year and a half ago I was planning on supporting John Kerry. I thought he was the only one with credentials\stature\gravitas\etc... to take on Bush. But when it came to the Iraq War, the only two guys I could find that wanted to be president for the Dems and were vocally opposed to the war, were Dean and Kucinich. They both were saying things I expected to hear out of the mouth of the Senator from Mass. Instead, Kerry followed the Dem Party's 'safe' approach and supported the IWR, giving him cover for his presidential run in the post-9\11 era, with the unfortunate by-product of handing the Senate over to the Republicans.

Now Will Pitt a while back, said that he and other Journalists sat in a hotel room with the Senator where Kerry complained that he didn't realize that Bush would lie to him that way over such a life and death issue. Well Senator John... HE DID!!!

And apparently he's doing it again, right now!!!

So start the investigation, bring in witnesses, get the facts together, and if our government kidnapped Aristide at gunpoint, cuffed him, and put him on a plane and is keeping him incommunicado, while at the same time forcing fleeing Haitian refugees back on to the shores of an unstable regime (one that we apparently helped to destabilize) only to get slaughtered in reprisal killings going on around the island...

SAY IT, SENATOR KERRY!!! NOW, JOHN!!!

You've got the media spotlight on you. You know the history here. You know what the Bush people are capable of. You are getting a second chance here. If this story proves true...

BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF BUSH WITH IT!!!

A grateful nation, and this grateful Democrat will thank you.

:shrug:


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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. For some folks Kerry can never do enough to please them
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. that's a good statement by Kerry, and I hope he says this on media shows
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. Lookin More And More Like This Did Happen !!!
<snip>

Multiple sources that just spoke with Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide told Democracy Now! that Aristide says he was "kidnapped" and taken by force to the Central African Republic. Congressmember Maxine Waters said she received a call from Aristide at 9am EST. "He's surrounded by military. It's like he is in jail, he said. He says he was kidnapped," said Waters. She said he had been threatened by what he called US diplomats. According to Waters, the diplomats reportedly told the Haitian president that if he did not leave Haiti, paramilitary leader Guy Philippe would storm the palace and Aristide would be killed. According to Waters, Aristide was told by the US that they were withdrawing Aristide's US security.

TransAfrica founder and close Aristide family friend Randall Robinson also received a call from the Haitian president early this morning and confirmed Waters account. Robinson said that Aristide "emphatically" denied that he had resigned. "He did not resign," he said. "He was abducted by the United States in the commission of a coup." Robinson says he spoke to Aristide on a cell phone that was smuggled to the Haitian president.

<snip>

Link: http://www.democracynow.org/

And...

Du Discussion: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x392083

Gettin hot in here, no???

:shrug:

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. No handcuffs. A false statement attributed to Rep. Waters. She has stated
that she never said Aristide was taken out in handcuffs.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. I Think I Missed Your Point !!!
:shrug:
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