The criticism of Bill Clinton's behavior is growing.

[cali]

And if he doesn't stop acting as he were a VP candidate, it will continue to grow.

Some think ex-president stooping on campaign trail
Globe Staff / January 24, 2008

AIKEN, S.C. - Bill Clinton was already working the crowd with a vociferous appeal to vote for his wife when the dozens of people jostling to get inside the auditorium provoked a campaign worker to cry out, "Adults should not be acting this way!"

Coincidentally, Clinton's sharp- elbowed advocacy leading up to Saturday's South Carolina primary is prompting some pundits and fellow Democrats to voice a similar sentiment: Should a former president be acting this way?

Several prominent Democrats say no. In recent days, they have publicly warned that he is hurting his party and his own status as elder statesman by taking on the highly charged role of critic-in-chief of Hillary Clinton's main Democratic rival, Barack Obama.


<snip>


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/24/some_think_ex_president_stooping_on_campaign_trail/

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. Fortunately, Bill Clinton is a big boy who knows what he's doing

He modulates well ... no wonder HRC keeps him around.

[Blarch]

54. He doesn't know shit.

I know many Clinton supporters who are disgusted by this behavior, he IS hurting the party.

[Bitwit1234]

58. Thank goodness he doesn't . He know sthat he is leaving the slime

and smell to the candidate who surely is spewing it. AND gets a pass from the press.

[mod mom]

71. Using rovian tactics like a junk yard dog is hurting our party. It is playing into GOP

hands by alienating and dividing the party.

I am an Edwards supporter but Obama is correct in stating he would win over Clinton supporter but Clinton will not get all the Obama supporters. I am one of those who WOULD NEVER VOTE FOR CLINTON. I am also embarrassed of my past votes for Bill Clinton. I was unfamiliar with details of his policies (THINK- NAFTA, TELECOM ACT OF '96, CORPORATE INTEREST SUPPORT). Had I known then what I know now, I would have never cast a vote for him.

[formernaderite]

75. as disgusting as their tactics are

they are gearing up hillary to appeal to the racist right wingers in the general. We're all appalled...but you know the clintons are political operatives to the max. NOTHING they're doing is well thought through.

[mod mom]

82. Racist RWers won't be won over by HRC. She will only get them out in droves for the GOP.

You have to wonder why she chose the likes of Mark Penn, whose firm gave 57% of donations to GOP in 2006:

"In '06, with Penn at the helm, the company gave 57% of Campaign Contrib to GOP"



Polling Czar



After the 1994 election, Democrats had just lost both houses of Congress, and President Clinton was floundering in the polls. At the urging of his wife, he turned to Dick Morris, a friend from their time in Arkansas. Morris brought in two pollsters from New York, Doug Schoen and his partner, Mark Penn, a portly, combative workaholic. Morris decided what to poll and Penn polled it. They immediately pushed Clinton to the right, enacting the now-infamous strategy of "triangulation," which co-opted Republican policies like welfare reform and tax cuts and emphasized small-bore issues that supposedly cut across the ideological divide. "They were the ones who said, 'Make the '96 election about nothing except V-chips and school uniforms,'" says a former adviser to Bill. When Morris got caught with a call girl, Penn became the most important adviser in Clinton's second term. "In a White House where polling is virtually a religion," the Washington Post reported in 1996, "Penn is the high priest."

Penn, who had previously worked in the business world for companies like Texaco and Eli Lilly, brought his corporate ideology to the White House. After moving to Washington he aggressively expanded his polling firm, Penn, Schoen & Berland (PSB). It was said that Penn was the only person who could get Bill Clinton and Bill Gates on the same line. Penn's largest client was Microsoft, and he saw no contradiction between working for both the plaintiff and the defense in what was at the time the country's largest antitrust case. A variety of controversial clients enlisted PSB. The firm defended Procter & Gamble's Olestra from charges that the food additive caused anal leakage, blamed Texaco's bankruptcy on greedy jurors and market-tested genetically modified foods for Monsanto. PSB introduced to consulting the concept of "inoculation": shielding corporations from scandal through clever advertising and marketing.

In 2000 Penn became the chief architect of Hillary's Senate victory in New York, persuading her, in a rerun of '96, to eschew big themes and relentlessly focus on poll-tested pothole politics, such as suburban transit lines and dairy farming upstate. Following that election, Penn became a very rich man--and an even more valued commodity in the business world (Hillary paid him $1 million for her re-election campaign in '06 and $277,000 in the first quarter of this year). The massive PR empire WPP Group acquired Penn's polling firm for an undisclosed sum in 2001 and four years later named him worldwide CEO of one of its most prized properties, the PR firm Burson-Marsteller (B-M). A key player in the decision to hire Penn was Howard Paster, President Clinton's chief lobbyist to Capitol Hill and an influential presence inside WPP. "Clients of stature come to Mark constantly for counsel," says Paster, who informally advises Hillary, explaining the hire. The press release announcing Penn's promotion noted his work "developing and implementing deregulation informational programs for the electric utilities industry and in the financial services sector." The release blithely ignored how utility deregulation contributed to the California electricity crisis manipulated by Enron and the blackout of 2003, which darkened much of the Northeast and upper Midwest.

Burson-Marsteller is hardly a natural fit for a prominent Democrat. The firm has represented everyone from the Argentine military junta to Union Carbide after the 1984 Bhopal disaster in India, in which thousands were killed when toxic fumes were released by one of its plants, to Royal Dutch Shell, which has been accused of colluding with the Nigerian government in committing major human rights violations. B-M pioneered the use of pseudo-grassroots front groups, known as "astroturfing," to wage stealth corporate attacks against environmental and consumer groups. It set up the National Smokers Alliance on behalf of Philip Morris to fight tobacco regulation in the early 1990s. Its current clients include major players in the finance, pharmaceutical and energy industries. In 2006, with Penn at the helm, the company gave 57 percent of its campaign contributions to Republican candidates.

-snip
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070604/berman

PROBABLY BECAUSE IF SHE IS THE CANDIDATE, HIS FIRM WINS EITHER WAY IF EITHER SHE OR THE GOP WIN IN '08.

[jasmine621]

2. His critics and detractors have been wrong before. nt

[Tellurian]

10. Oh, yes.. The Liebermans of the world would love to see him sit down

and shut up! Not going to happen. We're not going to tolerate another Gore-Kerry LOSS!

[KittyWampus]

17. Frankly, I think the Clintons covertly contributed to those Gore/Kerry 'loses'.

Clinton crony McCauliffe certainly did NOTHING to combat the systematic and ever more sophisticated Election Fraud.

And that was his job.

And it was the very Clinton machine that you support that WANTED LIEBERMAN as Gore's VP.

[Tellurian]

29. Frankly, I would like seeing your theory borne out in links..

It always nice to theorize.. but if you want someone to take you seriously, you have to make your case supported by evidence.

[angie_love]

60. haha

well isn't this the pot calling the kettle black...

[Tellurian]

80. whoa, I'm vaklempt.. your brilliance outshines the sun...!

[JackORoses]

93. you never provide links for the shit you spread.

unless they are to His44, and who believes anything from that swill hole?

[wyldwolf]

47. you have a mistaken notion of what the DNC chair's job is

[Buzz Clik]

22. Yes, and they've been right before.

[Tellurian]

32. When did that happen?

[Buzz Clik]

50. Gee. Let me think.... Um. Drudge? Monica? Yes, that's it.

[Tellurian]

78. Wow, Drudge, a historical reference..just wow..

I'll bet you're a faithful subscriber to the National Enquirer..

[Buzz Clik]

85. Listen, cupcake -- you shot out a "subject only" question, and I answered it.

Your contributions are totally without substance. You can only blame yourself when you get answered in kind.

[Tellurian]

97. Looks like I was right..

thanks for the stimulating tabloid response..

[babylonsister]

3. I can't tell you how much this pisses me off. Sure, I support Obama,

but to bring down the Dem party this way by his actions...didn't he already do that?
Bill, just go away! :grr:

[chimpymustgo]

4. It takes 2 to tango. nt

nt

[babylonsister]

8. Yep, Hill and Bill. Doesn't that tell you anything? nt

[Tellurian]

18. When you're up against the BEST!

you get taken to school. I don't think they'll send Obama a bill for his tutelage.

[KittyWampus]

20. The best at getting THEMSELVES elected and fuck other Democrats and the country?

hopefully they won't be successful.

[Buzz Clik]

23. Exactly. Why are they so willing to flush 50% of the party for their personal gains?

[Tellurian]

39. I accused Obama first of doing that exact thing..

Obama's camp is turning this election into a racial issue, no one else. In turn, the result of this desperate move, he is dividing the Dem Party. So aim your anger at the neophyte in the race thats not ready for Prime Time. I've never ever heard such whining coming from a Presidential candidate ever. Do you know why? Because they CAN take the heat a campaign dishes out. Obama proves he is too thin skinned for 'taking the heat in the kitchen'. He's a wimp!

Obama just proves time and time again, he's a crybaby and really has NO concrete plans for America. He'd rather whine then talk the serious talk people are interested in.. We're wise to his schoolboy tricks!

[mondo joe]

41. Are candidates supposed to excel at getting their opponents elected? HRC was

put forth by Democrats and is supported by Democrats. She's supposed to fight to win.

[Tellurian]

81. you forgot to add, iyo...

FYI, Hillary has the Dem base firmly in her camp.. I'm not at all worried.

[JackORoses]

94. If Bill is the best, why was he screwing interns and getting impeached instead of leading?

[chimpymustgo]

21. Ignore Obama's bad moves at your own peril. He's been schooled.

nt.

[babylonsister]

42. He's been schooled? WTF does that mean? He learns well? With

this kind of nasty, double-teaming competition, he needed to.

[Dogmudgeon]

9. No! It's all Clinton's fault!

Clinton bad!

Obama good!

The Clintons are evil, evil people because I say so, and I'm a good person!

:eyes:

--p!

[Buzz Clik]

24. Nice tantrum. Join the conversation anytime you see fit ... assuming you can contribute.

[babylonsister]

69. Tell your guy to just...go...away, and we will all be better for it. And

here's the obligatory eyes. :eyes:

[mondo joe]

77. How about let the voters tell Bill that - if that's what they think?

[babylonsister]

83. We cannot afford to wait that long. Seriously. nt

[mondo joe]

84. We can't wat for the voters to decide? What a nice anti-Democratic stance.

Sure, cutting out the people and just getting what you want might satisfy you.

I'd be embarrassed by such a sentiment.

[Inuca]

87. What ballot exactly is Bill on?

Nevermind... he kind of is.

[mondo joe]

88. It's easy for the voters to deliver the message. If you don't like Hillary, her campaign or

her speakers - including Bill - don't vote for her.

[Windy]

12. Agreed. He is singlehandely dividing our party and reminding the independents, that we need to win

of the insanity that was also a part of the Clinton years, and a BAD part.

He would have been better of continuing his charitable work than to come out as a rabid attack dog for his wife.

[mondo joe]

27. This seems very irratonal to me. How on earth can he "split the party"?

[Windy]

33. Into those who want an issue driven election and those who prefer juvenile trashing win at all costs

A divide between those who want a candidate that transcends the rovial political model and a power hungry administration and those who want a return to a presidency that is truly for the people, not egocentric and destructive.

John Edwards or Obama have the capacity to heal this country. The Clintons will be more of the same crap.

[mondo joe]

34. The only way the party can be divided is if the party chooses to divide itself.

It seems to me you're unhappy that someone is running a hard campaign against your candidate rather than anointing him.

[Tellurian]

14. Obama should never have run..

He is in over his head, as it is... and is behaving very Un-Presidential like!

[Buzz Clik]

25. Um. Yeah. I think you've missed the entire point of this thread. Oh, wait.

You're a Hillary supporter. Nevermind.

[Inuca]

28. You are so.... silly

Funny too.

[indimuse]

48. It's blatantly obvious Obama has to GO!

he is more divisive than Bush..and just as incompetent...doesn't even know how to push 1 outta 3 buttons to vote! lame !! Ever here "Freedom Of Speech!??" What are you sayin..BS? tell me are you really a DEM??

[THUNDER HANDS]

99. I have a new nickname for him

Napalm Bill.

[patrice]

5. You'd think he would be nicer to Obama since Obama did so much to help him in

'96.

This makes me wonder what being an FOB means.

[Buzz Clik]

26. 1992? That's a joke, right?

[patrice]

30. You know what? Some people aren't into all of this tricky BS. It was a mistake.

I was trying to help.

[Tellurian]

6. Bill Clinton is doing what he thinks needs doing.. I, for one, am happy to see him on the trail

thats the way we want it..

[havocmom]

36. Bill on THIS trail will alienate independents and moderate GOP that may move to the DEMS

And it will ABSOLUTELY bring out the far right (in droves) against us in Nov.

Bill is tripping over his ego at this point and that is damned sad. He is acting more like Ralph Hello Again Every Four Years Nader all the time and it is damaging to him, to us and to America at this point. He is throwing away the incredible gifts he still had to offer as elder statesman at a time America could really use the good will such elder statesmen can garner in the world at a time we SO need to repair damage to America's reputation and standing.

Let me tell ya, Bill is sounding shrill. And yeah, that term CAN and sometimes DOES apply to the male of the species too. It is not necessarily sexist. Bill is shrill and it is not becoming on him any more than it is on anyone else.

edited for typo

[Tellurian]

43. Not really! What Indys and moderate are seeing is a "weak" black candidate..

who needs to be seasoned before he steps into the ring with Pros!

This ain't Chicago. This ain't a race for the State Senate. This ain't a race for the US Senate.

[ccpup]

52. and he isn't running against Allan Keyes this time!

I laughed when I read Michelle Obama's quote about proving people wrong when they were told Illinois would never vote for a black man named Barack when he was running for the Senate. I felt like screaming, there were TWO black men running and one was a batshit cuckoo bananas resident of Maryland!

[havocmom]

62. How many Independents do you listen to?

Parroting the Clinton lines is not necessarily the way to reach Independents and we need them.

[Tellurian]

76. Independants will be in the Clinton camp

at the end of it all. Hillary's base of support are the Democrats and even Indys can figure out she know what she's talking about as opposed to 'Obama Pie in the Sky' 'Hope and empty Promises.'

[havocmom]

91. Speaking of 'pie in the sky'...

Independents will come out for Clinton, huh?

Likely too many will stay home in Nov if that is the choice. Bill is pissing off lots of people I hear. Many weren't crazy about Hillary before Bill got shrill.

[Tellurian]

100. Some people are saying, Obama is becoming very polarizing..

because he's trying to spin this election into a racist issue.

I hear alot of people are happy to see Bill calling Obama out on his, ahem... "inconsistencies" :eyes:

[Dogmudgeon]

7. Didn't we complain when he DIDN'T campaign for Gore?

Check one:

{} Damned if he does.

{} Damned if he doesn't.

--p!

[angie_love]

16. hmm

It just tells me hes selfish. Of course he didn't campaign for Gore or Kerry for that matter b/c hes only fixated on himself getting back to the whitehouse. Thats what it tells me. He doesn't give a damn about anyone else but himself, Hes just using Hillary to get there. It would be nice if he showed the same type of passion for anyone besides the Clintons, it would be nice if he showed it for the democratic party.

[babylonsister]

44. AMEN, and welcome to DU, angie love!

:hi:

[Tellurian]

45. ....

pick up a history book before you type anything else..

:rofl:

[havocmom]

61. Ah, actually not all of us complained about that

Are you speaking of complaints here on DU after bush was sworn in? Cuz during that campaign, there was no DU.

And lots of us understood that Clinton backing off in 2000 was probably a help to the party. Too bad Bill doesn't see that what was a liability then is STILL a liability.

[Dogmudgeon]

79. Indeed ...

... we complained about it after the fact, for a long time, but there were other lefty online communities where Clinton was damned for "not doing enough" -- in spite of several offers (and apologies) to Mr. Gore.

Well, that's all history now. But the assumption that "Clinton" is a synonym for "evil" is still unsustainable. Cognoscenti of the left and right alike hate the Clintons because they can't easily push them around -- but the Clintons have also never extracted a pound of flesh like Bush or Reagan did. And worse, they are popular with the "common people". It's a grudge that thousands of on-line political wonks have carried since the days of Usenet.

If the Clintons were really evil, the press would adore them; cynics say that all the pretty girls swoon over the thugs. But we shouldn't get pulled into those habits.

--p!

[Tarc]

11. Growing more shrill, perhaps. Not growing in numbers

As I've said before, having Bill on the trail is a built-in advantage for Hillary; this is what we usually see in the general election when the candidates let their VPs be the attack dogs while they give the air of staying above the fray. Obama has no real way to counter it, other than to complain. Michelle's a nice lady, but she ain't no Bubba.

[Adelante]

31. Half true

Michelle's a nice lady, but she ain't no ex-president. She's a candidate's spouse. If only Bubba knew his proper place in a Democratic primary.

[mondo joe]

35. Proper place will be determined by Democratic voters. If the Clinton campaign turns people off,

it should reflect in their votes.

[babylonsister]

46. That is what scares the crap out of me. The outcome will reflect in a lot

of votes, to our detriment, I fear.

[mondo joe]

57. I never think Democrats coming out to vote is a bad thing. Never.

Whether my preferred candidate wins or loses.

[Tarc]

38. Heh, "proper place". That's rediculous

If you have an advantage, you utilize it. Hillary would be a fool not to do so.

[Adelante]

49. I'll be happy if she uses it against a Republican in the event it happens

He has no business running against her opponents in a Democratic Primary. Support her, her record, her accomplishments, her policies, her abilities, yes. But she is the candidate in this race; he is not the candidate. He is a former Democratic president and has obligations to all Democrats. Including me.

[mondo joe]

63. It's amazing - it's as if some DUers are intentionally looking for the worst fighter

in a campaign.

[earthside]

13. It is getting weird.

Just reading through all the news stories about President Clinton's campaign tactics today leaves one wondering just where this goes?

Who is at the head of the Clinton for President organization?

Who is making decisions about positions on the issues?

This two-person candidacy does seem to be entering a rather weird area for politics.

And, if Hillary Clinton(s) is the nominee, you can count on this duo-candidacy being a major turn-off for many average voters.

[madrchsod]

64. we get both of them if she`s the president

[ihelpu2see]

15. I am growing more and more disappointed in the former President. It would seem

that he is more anxious to return to the WH than his wife and his wife is not nearly the campaigner that he is, so, he is pushing and IMO he is looking petty and selfish in doing so. He also seems to be lacking many of the facts of the debate and only is interested in the head-line grabbing Jabs that he learned from the repbublicants.

[Tellurian]

51. Not really, he's supporting his wife because she is the most qualified candidate..

If you're going to help people to see what is going on... write a note to self with these few words:

"Hillary is the most qualified candidate for the presidency."

Thanks..

[ihelpu2see]

68. I doubt that Obama is less qualified than Bill was and Hillary does not

get points for being first lady. I look at her time on the Senate Armed Services committee where she did not do enough to curtail our Presidents abuse of the Military.

[Tellurian]

74. It would be good to read more on the subjects you want to discusss

If you want to contrast and compare. Begin here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

[ihelpu2see]

89. Im troubled you put so much trust in a publicly edited source as wiki. nt

[Buzz Clik]

19. The troubling part of this is his intensionally divisive, disruptive, and caustic behavior.

And when the media call him on his routine or question the honesty of one of his remarks, his goes into his oh-so-sincere routine of squinting one eye, staring into the camera, and making his stern pronouncements and denials. You know the routine: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

Yeah, the act is wearing thin.

[Windy]

37. The Mayor of Detroit was just outed last night for lying under oath about an affair.

While Bill's lying about a personal matter had nothing to do with his policies as president, it certainly spoke to his character and his propensity to blatantly lie to protect himself or get something that he wants. His character flaws are evident in his recent behavior and have been brought to the fore once again.

I don't want anymore of this type of distraction in an administration when we are faced with so many problems that must be dealt with.

[Buzz Clik]

56. Bill Clinton has a great deal to offer. Constantly stirring the mud isn't part of that package.

Unless, of course, gaining office and assuming power is one's singular priority.

[Tellurian]

53. No, it's your excuses that are beyond thin!

[Buzz Clik]

55. My excuses? What are you trying to accomplish here?

You're doing nothing but tossing out silly platitudes. Surely you can bring more to the discussion than "Oh, yeah?".

[Tellurian]

66. When you post something of substance then we'll have something to discuss..

On it's face...all you've posted is a complaint based on your opinion. We're in the throws of a heated contest. Each side has to make and defend their candidate. So far all we're heard from the Obama campaign are lies, distortions and whining.. nothing of substance. If Obama continues to dish it out, we're going to respond in kind. You can take that to the Bank!

[Buzz Clik]

86. Let's see. A Hillary troll whose contribution never go beyond the subject line.

The ignore button. Yep. There it is. Goodbye.

[Windy]

90. whoever that is is already on my ignore list... ah, life is good!

[Buzz Clik]

92. I should have done it long ago -- about 20% of this thread suddenly disappeared.

[moobu2]

40. I’ve watched all the crap the MSM

is using to try to start a scandal. Watch the shitty vid clips without the spin and see for yourself. It’s nothing but s cheap smear that only a fool would fall for..

[cali]

59. It's not just the MSM

Kennedy, Emanuel and Clyburn have all expressed their disapproval of Bill's behavior directly to him.

Rightly or wrongly, Americans expect ex-presidents to hew to a certaln kind of conduct. He's not, and he's going to get criticized for it.

[BigDDem]

65. Waaaaaa waaaaaa waaaaaaa

What a bunch of crybaby wimps.

[krabigirl]

67. Yep lol

[mondo joe]

72. If they can't handle the relatively gentle Clinton campaign, what will they do in a general

election scenario?

[itsrobert]

70. Non-Issue

All spouses campaign for their spouse. The US has a long history of it.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

95. There is a vast difference between

campaigning for somebody and attacking a competitor

Nobody would mind that Bill campaigns for Hillary since as you said, thats basically a traditon

What spouses does not tend to be tho is an attack dog against another candidate, specially not in such mud slinging and lying manner.

[renate]

98. yup

Especially when that spouse is also the nominal head of the Democratic party.

Nobody could object to his supporting his wife. But it's inappropriate for him to be shoving his big face in front of the cameras all the time, attacking a fellow Democrat. The important thing--as Hillary herself said--is to get a Democrat in the White House. And he seems to be driven by the idea of getting himself and his wife back in the White House and the hell with the party if that doesn't happen.

I was a huge fan of Bill until recently. I am sick sick sick of him and his ego. It's all about what he wants, not what's best for 1) the party and 2) the country. :puke:

[BenDavid]

73. Well hell, maybe this headline should about counter the one

posted here......The criticism of Obama's behavior is growing....

Barack Obama was already working the crowd with a vociferous appeal to vote for him when the dozens of people jostling to get inside the auditorium where crying out, " NO ADULT SAYS OOPS! " NO ADULT SAYS OOPS! " NO ADULT SAYS OOPS!

[oasis]

96. I commend Bill Clinton for mixing it up with the Obama spin machine. If they

can't take a pounding from the Clinton's superior political apparatus, then they should get the hell outta Dodge and leave the presidential stuff to the experts.