Why you shouldn't vote for Dean

[littlejoe]

A lot of people that read this thread are naturally going to say that I have an ax to grind; that I have an agenda.

Well I don't have an ax to grind. Honestly, I don't.

But I do have an agenda, and I think most of you know that I am campaigning for Sen. John Kerry.

But, suppose, just briefly, that I were undecided, and had an opportunity to vote in a primary today.

Why wouldn't I vote for Howard Dean?

I have a few good reasons.

When I look at a candidate, I want to know that they are willing to fight for me. Fight, and not fold when the going gets tough.

I want a candidate who has the courage to stand up for his convictions. In other words, a candidate who stands for something.

I also want a candidate who understands the need for consensus and is willing to work with the opposition for equitable compromise.(For a politician to be successful, this is imperitive.)

So?

When Howard Dean dropped out of the race after Wisconsin, he showed to me that he didn't have what it took, to be the Commander-in-Chief. He folded like a tent under intense scrutiny.

That act alone made me question his committment to his beliefs. The very beliefs which he sold quite well to his followers. In my mind, if his cause was so noble, he should have weathered the storm of scrutiny and criticism, as Dennis Kucinich and Al Sharpton have done.

Neither Kucinich or Sharpton have wavered in the face of scrutiny, ridicule and dismissiveness. Even though I feel that their candidacy is a distraction at this point in time, I DO admire them for not giving up or giving in. And neither of them have much money. But that is not a factor to their cause.

So I have to question, not only if Howard Dean really believes in what he gave speeches on, but I also have to question just how hard he really would fight for us citizens, if he was willing to give up on himself and us so easily.

One last thing. I would also like a candidate whose track record jibes with his platform. For Dean, there seemed to be a disconnect here. His record as Governor of Vermont suggests to me that he was a moderate to slightly conservative democrat. Yet his presidential campaign struck me as uncompromisingly far-left leaning. Why the change? I don't know, but I think it is a fair question to ask.

Many will take this post as flame bait, but these are musings that have been gnawing at me for some time.

[BearFlagDemocrat]

1. I voted for Dean this morning.

n/t

[Sterling]

2. Thanks I almost forgot.

To go to the polls today and vote for Howard Dean.

[jonnyblitz]

3. too late. I already did.

but i respect your opinion. :hi:

[Uzybone]

4. Stop wasting your time

those who at this time still want to vote for a dead campaign will do so no matter how much sense you make. Hopefully they'll awake from their stupor in November.

on edit: plus they also want delegates at the convention so its thier prerogative.

[Mz Pip]

6. There's an old saying

"When you horse dies, dismount."

It's time to find a new horse.

MzPip
:dem:

[regnaD kciN]

166. That's O.K., Uzybone...

...we'll all be sure to vote for your dead campaign in November!

:evilgrin:

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

5. I'm meeting my wife after work today

so we can go to the polls together and vote for Howard Dean.

You have to realize at this point you aren't going to change anyone's mind. You're really just wasting your own time.

[littlejoe]

9. Unfortunately, I have more time than money to waste! Thanks, GWB!

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

Well you can still use the surplus time constructively

Posting stuff that pleads for us not to vote for Dean is only slightly more timely than posting threads about the Red Menace.

[littlejoe]

25. That is your opinion. One in which I do not share.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

32. It's clear

that you don't share it. I can read.

[littlejoe]

44. It is not your reading that is in question here, but rather your

reading comprehension. You have mischaracterized my post. If you had read it carefully and fully understood it, you still might disagree, but could respect my opinions, which by the way are just that--opinions.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

53. Once again...

Your thread is titled: "Why you shouldn't vote for Dean". I take that to mean you believe we shouldn't vote for Dean in today's primaries. Right?

Most of your post is taken up with a laundry list of what you perceive as Dean's failures of character and spinelessness as a campaigner. Since you are saying these things under the title "Why you shouldn't vote for Dean," that says to me: "Here are the reasons why you shouldn't vote for Howard Dean." So far so good.

Your post implies that some type of harm will ensue as a result of people voting for him in today's primaries. The reality, of which you seem to be aware, is that he poses no strategic threat to the main candidates, so I can only read in your post that we shouldn't vote for Howard Dean because you either fear for our collective integrity as a voters or, worse yet, because we have been bamboozled by a charlatan.

[littlejoe]

55. I just can't figure out why you would continue to support

someone who couldn't stand the heat of battle, and who quit on you.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

61. He didn't quit on me

He made a practical decision that showed he was realistic about his chances. I just don't view this is a betrayal.

I have never before heard of a situation where a candidate makes a sober assessment of their campaign as intenable, drops out as a result, and is called a coward for it. Was Clark a coward too?

[littlejoe]

65. IMO, I swear for the life of me, I don't know how any Dean supporter

can reconcile it any other way.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

73. I just told you several times

He was being realistic, in my opinion. He was not going to get the nomination. How that's cowardly or shows a lack of commitment to one's beliefs, I have no idea. Sober and realistic, yes. Cowardly, no.

I was sorry to see him drop out, but only an idiot would question his motives for doing so when he didn't win a single primary out of 17. Do you honestly believe he should have stayed in?

[littlejoe]

92. I wouldn't vote for a quitter. That much I do know.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

96. Marvelous!

Except that Dean's not a quitter. I fail to understand how you can equate realistically assessing his campaign with "quitting". Is he just supposed to keep running anyway without winning a single primary?

If my wife died, would I be "quitter" if I stopped fucking her?

[Forkboy]

101. LMFAO

:thumbsup:

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

118. Tee hee

[regnaD kciN]

167. The irony, of course...

...is that, had Dean remanined in the race, littlejoe would no doubt be telling us we shouldn't vote for him because he's so unrealistic to stay in a race where he has no chance.

:eyes:

[MercutioATC]

102. Like a politician who didn't show up for votes he knew he wouldn't win?

THAT kind of "quitter"?

[RogueTrooper]

13. He knows that

it is just that he would rather trash talk fellow Democrats than fight George W. Bush.

[littlejoe]

24. Where have I trash talked any democrats in this thread?

7. damned if he does, damned if he don't

"So I have to question, not only if Howard Dean really believes in what he gave speeches on, but I also have to question just how hard he really would fight for us citizens, if he was willing to give up on himself and us so easily."

If he had stayed in, he would have been criticized for divisiveness, etc.

Just as a point of fact, he didn't precisely give up fighting, he shifted his focus.

As for whether you trust him or & wonder if he really believes in what he said, each person has to make up their own mind about that.

I've seen him speak in person in Bryant Park right up close and looked into his eyes and watched his demeanor and I think he believes in what he was saying. But that's just my opinion.

[dsc]

8. Give me a fucking break

I know God damned well, and will site it if you try to claim you didn't, that you were chief among those urging him to drop out. Now, he is unfit due to following your advice?

In case anyone thinks this didn't happen just as I said, here is the following thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=312172

Dean supporters, please urge your man to quit.


The inevitable is at hand and the smoke is already settling. Howard Dean does not have a remote chance of winning the nomination. All of you supporters should e-mail in and urge Dr. Dean to quit. At this point it is nothing more than an ego thing.

Besides, I am furious at Dr. Dean for running probably the most inept and spend-happy campaign in my memory. All of you should be really upset that he blew over thirty million dollars in Iowa and New Hampshire and got ZERO to show for it, except a campaign on life-support.

Dean is nothing more than a distraction now. For the good of the party and the common goal of unseating Bush, withdraw your support for Howard Dean now, and urge him to quit the race and throw his support behind John Kerry

end of quote

[littlejoe]

11. While it is true that, for me personally, my hope would be for

everyone to drop out, except Kerry, If I WERE an undecided voter, I believe these would be valid concerns about Howard Dean.

[dsc]

22. Newsflash I am not undecided either

I favored Howard Dean, and I must say that people like you make impossible for me to justify spending any money on Kerry. I presume that some number of Kerry campaign workers are just like you and the many other graceless people who post crap like this. I won't spend my money paying the salary of people who hold me in such utter contempt.

[littlejoe]

27. Well, I guess I touched a nerve.

[FredScuttle]

109. Mission accomplished

My vote for Dean was proudly cast this morning...reading threads from Kerry supporters like you make me even more proud of it.

[salin]

15. pssst.

Seems to be another case of: "I.see.Dean.people."

Take it with humour, would be my suggestion.

[mzmolly]

129. And there you have it. Damned if he did - damned if he didn't

Thanks dsc

[regnaD kciN]

168. Ah-ha...!

Now we find out the truth! "littlejoe -- making the world safe for hypocrisy!"

;-)

[BL_Zebub]

10. I think I'm going to come up and posess people in 10 different states

Just so I can vote for Howard Dean! :evilgrin:

[RogueTrooper]

12. Do you have to be this insulting?

Do you reserve the same contempt for Gephardt and Clark ( both of whom dropped out and both of how have endorsed Senator Kerry? ). Howard Dean dropped out because his candidacy had failed. Neither Kucinich or Sharpton were ever running to win the nomination. Howard Dean was. That is the difference.

I wanted a candidate who stood to George W. Bush, that's why I supported Howard Dean.

I wanted a candidate who would stand up for the rights of ordinary Americans by they Gay, Straight, Black, Yellow, Beige or Brown. That's why I supported Howard Dean.

I wanted a candidate who understood the diference between working with political opponents and being shafted by them. Howard Dean understood this difference and that's why I, and many others supported Howard Dean

If people want to vote for Howard Dean, that is their right.
If you want to come onto this board and trash talk Democrats then that is your right. Just don't be surprisd when people pull you up for your mendacity.

By the By, I would think you would not vote for Howard Dean because you are a Kerry activists.

[littlejoe]

23. The proper word would not be contempt. The word "disinterest"

comes immediately to mind.

I would say that those who realize that they have not enough support to continue a candidacy are wise. We should be equally wise to withdraw our support from such candidates. It's like the man said, "When your horse dies...."

[RogueTrooper]

26. No candidate except Kerry is viable*

why should people not vote for who they want? It is not the general election.

*sorry Edwards supporters but it is the truth.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

30. Your guy is ahead by 40%-60% in my state

depending on which poll you look at.

Why do you even give a shit who I vote for? I honestly cannot understand what the hell bothers you so much about me voting for Dean. In about 12 hours it will be reported that Kerry decisively swept all ten states.

[salin]

31. and it reads as though

the thoughtful and respectful approach you have taken with this thread... is so very effective...

[littlejoe]

35. Yeah. I had a feeling this thread would be hijacked, but it was my

duty to point a few unpleasant things out.

[salin]

that is one way to view it

of course it couldn't have anything to do with the tone and approach taken that would perhaps invoke the responses of people volunteering that they have or are about to do the exact opposite of what you were so advocating... nah...

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

43. "Hijacked" by who?

This thread is called "Why you shouldn't vote for Dean", meaning it's directed at people who are going to vote for him, right? There would be no reason to write that if not for the benefit of people who you believe will vote for the guy. The people you claim are "hijacking" your thread are the people your thread is aimed at.

Right?

[WI_DEM]

51. your duty

your duty is to support, work for, and vote for the candidate of your choice and to allow others to do the same. Please don't take yourself so seriously.

[salin]

52. or perhaps

hone up on the skills of the art of persuasion... or one might not actually be too helpful in winning over voters in the general election.

[littlejoe]

94. My duty is to get Bush out of the White House.

And I will do that any way I see fit.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

107. Well you might want to start

by promoting your own candidate instead of attacking one who has no chance of causing yours any problems.

[maxanne]

56. right on

and you have done your duty assiduously since arriving at DU.

[Missy Vixen]

59. Your "duty"?

>duty to point a few unpleasant things out.<

If you spent as much time registering people to vote or working for your candidate as you have bashing Dean on this forum, the world would be a better place, wouldn't it?

There's a "few unpleasant things" I'd like to point out to you as well, but I think it would get me banned...

Julie

[maxanne]

69. disinterest

Ha - you're anything but disinterested.

The guy is out of the running. Why keep flogging the dead horse?

[littlejoe]

77. Disinterest in supporting them, maxie.

[littlejoe]

33. All of you should be duly insulted. But you shouldn't waste your

indignation on little old me. Rather, it should be directed at the man who lead you on, and then quit on you.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

40. Your take on this is so wrong as to defy categorization

I feel neither led on nor quit on by Howard Dean. He didn't get the amount of votes we thought he was going to get, and when it became clear that he wasn't going to win the nomination, he closed up shop. I see no duplicitousness in this, and I'm not sure what you feel he should have done instead.

How is this any different from Clark, Lieberman, Gephardt, or any other candidate who dropped out?

[littlejoe]

47. I'm wrong because you say so?

As I stated before, these are my opinions. Would I be equally right to say that your opinions are wrong?

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

57. No

You're wrong because you're trying to characterize Dean's actions as somehow duplicitous and then cowardly, which they weren't --- I have yet to hear of a candidate who has dropped out during the primaries who didn't follow the same plan that Dean did. Do you feel the same way about other candidates who dropped out? Was Lieberman a lying cad who took advantage of his supporters and then a coward for dropping out when it became clear he wasn't going to win?

Dean raised a lot of money but it didn't turn into votes. I know that. When he realized he wasn't going to win, he dropped out. This happens every primary season with countless candidates. I don't see why you feel this is any different.

[Deansspecialinterest]

48. One telling difference

Clark and Gephardt endorsed Kerry. While littlejoe's concern for undecided voters and unfortunate Dean dupes is truly touching, the only part of his ridiculous post that you need to read is that he is campaigning for Kerry. That's all he's doing here.

[littlejoe]

95. That was quite obvious, since I stated it up front.

I'm sorry that you cannot see the cracks in the failed dean candidacy.

[indigo32]

45. Try none of the above regarding Howard Dean

I will be forever appreciative of what Howard Dean did and continues to do.

[Fleshdancer]

14. if we spent half our energy trying to convince non voters to vote

instead of trying to convince die hard Democrats who have already made up their minds who they want to vote for in a damn primary then perhaps, just maybe, this country wouldn't have such an embarrassing low voter turnout for a change.

I'll vote for Dean. He's the best candidate and his message deserves the delegates. I refuse to sit here and feel bad just because I demand a voice.

[unfrigginreal]

16. I wish that you would post more often...

this Dean supporter appreciates the effect of your "musings".

[madfloridian]

17. Voting early for Dean.

Getting my ballot turned in today for March 9th primary.

[Melinda]

18. My entire family voted for Howard Dean this morning - Yeahrrrrrghh!!!!

And I'll write him in in November as well. Those of us who were along for the Dean ride from the get know better than to buy into what you're trying to sell - but you get an "A" for effort. :hi:

[BeyondGeography]

46. You might as well write in Gary Coleman in November

I understand the primary vote, but writing in Howard in November? That's a waste of a good vote.

[Melinda]

50. My vote means nothing

Or so I've been told time and time again right here on DU by those who have opposed Dean from the beginning. Why should it suddenly matter now?

My candidate, my support, opinions and beliefs have been endlessly belittled and denigrated by Kerry supporters and I should be expected to roll over quietly? I just don't think so, I really, truly don't.

I have a very long memory and I'll not be voting Kerry in November.

[HFishbine]

19. Why You Shouldn't Take Advice From Hypocrites

littlejoe Wed Feb-11-04 01:29 PM


Dean supporters, please urge your man to quit.

The inevitable is at hand and the smoke is already settling. Howard Dean does not have a remote chance of winning the nomination. All of you supporters should e-mail in and urge Dr. Dean to quit. At this point it is nothing more than an ego thing.

Besides, I am furious at Dr. Dean for running probably the most inept and spend-happy campaign in my memory. All of you should be really upset that he blew over thirty million dollars in Iowa and New Hampshire and got ZERO to show for it, except a campaign on life-support.

Dean is nothing more than a distraction now. For the good of the party and the common goal of unseating Bush, withdraw your support for Howard Dean now, and urge him to quit the race and throw his support behind John Kerry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=312172

[littlejoe]

29. You need to read my post more carefully. You have

misinterpreted what the thread was about.

[HFishbine]

34. Your words speak for themselves

You called on Dean to drop out for the "common good," and when he does, you critisize him as spineless; or to use your superbly mangled metaphore, "He folded like a tent under intense scrutiny."

That's hypocricy at its worst.

[littlejoe]

36. No hypocrisy here. You have missed the point entirely.

[HFishbine]

39. And so you say

Confident enough in your position to back it up with a blank post -- even more insight.

[dsc]

41. hey at least he didn't engage in even more hypocricy

give the dude some credit.

[Clovis Sangrail]

20. Voted for Dean this morning.

Assuming he gets the nomination (which looks very likely), I'll vote for Kerry in November.
Today I voted who I thought _should_ be the nominee.

[Castilleja]

21. I voted for Howard Dean, yesterday, too....

N/T

[clarknyc]

28. Both my wife and I will be voting for...

Dean today here in NYC.

[For PaisAn]

37. Untrue

You stated, as evidence that one shouldn't vote for Dean in the Primary:

"When I look at a candidate, I want to know that they are willing to fight for me. Fight, and not fold when the going gets tough.
I want a candidate who has the courage to stand up for his convictions. In other words, a candidate who stands for something."

My response:
Nonsense! The reason Dean suspended his campaign is because he ran out out money, period. BTW, he didn't have a $6 million dollar house to take a mortgage out on.

Why aren't we all just voting in the Primary for the person we want as the Democratic nominee. Isn't that the SOLE purpose of the Primary.

This is not the GE.

[littlejoe]

60. And Kucinich and Sharpton have money? Come on.

[For PaisAn]

67. Come on yourself,

as we well know, Kucinich & Sharpton have been running very different campaigns from the other candidates.

Why are you concerned about who any of us vote for in the Primary? That's the real question.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

74. Seriously

Kerry is obviously going to get the nomination, so I can't understand why anybody even gives a shit if we vote for someone else.

[littlejoe]

78. It might be because I'm trying to save you from yourselves,

and to save the Democrat's chances in the fall.

[Forkboy]

81. Whatta pal!

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

82. Save us from ourselves?

That's rich. Maybe Mel Gibson's next movie will be "The Passion of The Littlejoe".

I also find it hilariously funny when people claim that supporting Dean will somehow hurt the Democratic ticket in November. If Kerry gets the nomination, I'll vote for him. I've been ABB since Al Gore conceded in December 2000. But in any case I have yet to hear of a situation where support for a candidate during the primaries somehow hurt the nominee. Did Jerry Brown hurt Bill Clinton? Did Bill Bradley hurt Al Gore?

[littlejoe]

97. A more apt name would be "The Passion of the Deaniacs"

The only problem is, that instead of sacrificing yourselves for a better society, you are sacrificing the Democratic party to allow four more years of Bush!

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

105. Do you know the difference between the primaries and the GE?

If I was going to write-in Dean in the general election, you might have a point, but I plan to vote for the nominee, just as Dean advised his supporters to do when he dropped out (sorry, when he "quit").

The Democratic party's chances this fall will not be affected one bit by people voting for Dean in the primary. Kerry is running away with this thing, and I'm astonished that you actually believe for an instant that people voting for Dean in the primary are going to be Kerry's big problem come November.

[Forkboy]

115. The concept seems totally lost on the poster

primary? what the hell is that?

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

119. Primary?

It's that thing where you're not supposed to vote for Howard Dean on the grounds that he's a quitter, because it will make the Democratic nominee lose in November.

[littlejoe]

132. Do you know the difference between picking a winner and

picking a loser who quit on you?

[Forkboy]

139. We'll take that as a "no,I dont know what a primary is"

[littlejoe]

143. Take it any way you like , Mr. Boy.

[Forkboy]

151. Thank you Mr. Little

[For PaisAn]

83. Please explain

What on earth does that mean?? By pressuring people on how to vote in the Primary, how are you saving us from ourselves and saving the Democrat's chances in the fall? What at all does the Primary have to do with the GE and with "saving ourselves". Saving form what?

[JNelson6563]

38. Still scared, eh?

ROFL!!! <snarf>

[maggrwaggr]

42. because littlejoe says so, that's why

:eyes:

Give it a break, it's people like you who make me wish I could vote TWICE for Dean

[littlejoe]

100. And that's the bottom line! Now give me a "Hell yeah!

[WI_DEM]

49. So do you think Clark folded?

when the going got tough. Dean didn't withdrawl he is just not actively campaigning. He did realize it probably was impossible for him to attain the nomination but does hope to have some clout at the convention. He is going to support the nominee--he has made that clear.

But I was fortunate to vote for Dean in Wisconsin and it was one of the proudest votes I've ever cast and I hope Dean supporters around the country will do the same if they still believe in him and think he was the best candidate for the nomination.

[littlejoe]

58. Short answer, yes. I think Clark folded, as did Graham, Braun,

Gephardt and Dean.

[Norquist Nemesis]

54. Talk to me in November

and I'll consider voting for Kerry. Till then, I'm voting for Dean.

[Ysabel]

62. do you feel...

compelled to tell others what to do...?

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[littlejoe]

66. I have been able to seperate my true feelings from some very

valid questions concerning your candidate.

Unfortunately, many dean supporters have so wrapped themselves around a man who abandoned them, that it is a wonder his wife doesn't complain about how crowded it is when they are in bed at night.

Dean has a lot of warts, but I'll be damned if I have heard ANY supporter of his admit to one tiny little flaw.

He is not the messiah of the democratic party.

[For PaisAn]

68. OK, you first

will you admit to one tiny little flaw in Kerry. He is not the messiah of the democratic party either.

[littlejoe]

72. I have posted a couple of times my displeasure with Kerry on

the same sex marriage issue. Anything less than complete equal status, which means a MARRIAGE license, to me, still smacks of discrimination.

Your turn!

[For PaisAn]

76. Well,

I'm not a Dean supporter, I'm a Clarkie. But I have no criticisim of Dean and would have gladly voted for him in the Primary and/or GE. The only issue I had concerns about was the fact that Dean had no foriegn policy/military experience which would be a weakness running against our "glorious wartime pResident". That's it.

[littlejoe]

80. That's a start. Anyone else?

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

84. Sure

Dean was a totally polarizing candidate whose style put a lot of people off and whose lack of foreign policy experience and desire to repeal the Bush tax cuts would have been a very tough sell. I was also not thrilled with his NRA association, but living in NYC my take on the necessity of strict gun laws is probably different from that of someone living in Vermont.

OK?

[littlejoe]

75. Yeah, just as I thought. No takers.

[maxanne]

85. or maybe

everyone is sick of this kind of crap.

[littlejoe]

106. You have no idea just how sick most of us moderate and

liberals are of the vile crap, the viscious personal attacks that the Deaniacs spew, if any one of us criticizes your "messiah."

Nothing I could do or say can compare. You people pounce on us en-masse, for any variety of reasons, like children who throw tantrums, but aren't quite sure why.

You may think that you are the solution, but many democrats, me included look at you as the PROBLEM.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

113. Just speaking for myself

I'm just defending a candidate that you attacked. I never said anything about your candidate, except that he's winning.

[littlejoe]

134. Now THAT is rich!!!

[Forkboy]

116. awww joe

we love you,why can't you see that?

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

117. Quitter!

[Forkboy]

121. My love for joe will never quit

NEVER!

[salin]

128. irony?

interesting.

[maxanne]

160. I have a very good

idea of how you feel, littlejoe. We all do. You start a thread about it at least once a day.

So, the good old fashioned liberals who think for themselves are a problem?

Why not save the ABB posts, then, because clearly you don't want MY vote.

[maxanne]

70. news flash

littlejoe - he's out of the race - you can put down the stick now.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

79. I've publicly stated here what I believe were many flaws with him

but I just don't believe that an inability to take the heat was one of them. Howard Dean had a nonstop barrage of shit thrown his way from day one, and none of that had anything to do with his decision to withdraw. He withdrew because he wasn't getting enough votes to justify staying in.

When people were pulling endorsements from him, he stayed in. When the Osama ad ran, he stayed in. When the Club For Growth attacked him, he stayed in. He only dropped out when he didn't bring in enough votes. That's not a failure to take the heat, that's an ability to see that this wasn't going to happen for him.

If he had dropped out because Gephardt said he sided with Newt Gingrich at one of the debates, then you might have a point. But that's not what happened.

[salin]

64. one thing the bushies have not yet killed

irony is not yet dead.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

86. KICK!!!!

Just to remind people to vote for Dean today, if they so desire.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

87. Hmmm...

I wonder why the author of this thread suddenly has nothing further to add? Off "saving" other misguided Democrats from themselves, perhaps?

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mass_Liberal]

88. hmmm

"I want to know that they are willing to fight for me. Fight, and not fold. In the last two years, I have seen Sen. John Kerry refuse to fight for my beliefs. I have seen him fold instead. In fact, after folding, the only thing that made him take a stand was the popular honest of Howard Dean.



Kerry has no balls.

[Demobrat]

89. To each his own.

Personally, I will never vote for Kerry. Kerry? Bush? Who cares? It's like pick your favorite flavor booger. I'll take None Of The Above, thanks.

[Zinnola]

90. Geesh with posts from arrogant Kerry supporters like yourself

I am happy that I voted for Dean. It is people like yourself that are making it more difficult to vote for Kerry in the Fall. You may want to re-think your persuasion skills a bit, seems like they are having an adverse affect on us Dean supporters. IMHO.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

91. Didn't you know

that by voting for Dean in the primary then you are personally responsible for a Bush victory in the fall, even if you vote for Kerry in the GE? That's what I keep hearing, so it must be true!

[Demobrat]

93. Considering I can't vote for Kerry now or ever,

I fully intend to take complete responsibility for the fall of western civilization when W kicks his ass around the block this fall. Yep. You heard it here first. It will be all my fault.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

98. Yes, yours personally

When they "find" Osama bin Laden on November 1, a Bush victory will still be all on you.

Boo hiss on you! You big meanie!

[Demobrat]

103. Good thing the internet is anonymous, huh?

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but they can't find me to hurt me.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

114. Most of the shit I read here

is ONLY said because the internet is anonymous. I believe that if we were all in the same room face to face nobody would say a peep.

[littlejoe]

136. Bingo! Although I've never been bashful about

speaking my mind.

[littlejoe]

111. The last part of you handle explains a lot.

[Demobrat]

120. Say it loud.

Bratty and proud.

[Forkboy]

122. As does the first part of yours

[mzmolly]

161. And the first part of yours "little"

:freak:

[littlejoe]

112. You are the first one I know who WILL take responsibility.

Small consolation

[littlejoe]

110. Arrogant? That's rich, coming from you.

[MercutioATC]

99. Thanks, but I voted for Dean today. How were Kerry's votes on

the IWR, NCLB and the Patriot Act "fighting for us citizens"?
Kerry and Edwards are just business as usual Democrats. They're an example of why our party is in the shape it is.

No thanks.

[Demobrat]

104. Kerry didn't even bother to vote on the unemployment extension,

which lost by two votes. I guess unemployed people must not count for much, huh?

[MercutioATC]

108. Hey! He was too busy campaigning so he could make things better!

How's THAT for a "disconnect"?

[Demobrat]

124. Better for who?

Oh yeah, all those big Connecticut insurance companies. I would sleep so much better at night knowing they could make the rent.

[quaker bill]

123. Why you should vote for Dean

Because Dean is a pragmatist. When it became clear that the path to bringing progressive ideas into the mainstream of the party was not through a Presidential campaign, he had the sense to stop wasting resources on it.

This sets him apart from other candidates that continue to run against all odds and with little hope to create meaningful change.

When the choice was at hand, Dean chose another path because the campaign was never about his personal ambition, but about bringing change to the party and the country. He said it over and over again and his actions were consistent with his rhetoric. This sets him well apart from several candidates still in the race.

This is what it means to have your priorities sorted out in their proper order. It is the mark of integrity and more than adequate reason to continue to support him.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

125. What?

You mean you DON'T believe in the intriguing premise posited here originally that Dean is somehow a "quitter"? Will we naive Deaniacs never learn?

Anyway, I'm off to vote for Governor Howard Dean, M.D., right now, in my state's primary, and I'm happy to do it. So is my wife and my in-laws. Good luck in your own state's primary if you haven't had it already.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

126. You've convinced me. Thank you.

I'm going to go to my polling location and write in Burt Reynolds, the man who loved cat dancing.

[mzmolly]

127. Why you shouldn't vote for Kerry.

Why you shouldn't vote for Kerry

I have a few good reasons.

When I look at a candidate, I want to know that they are willing to fight for me. Fight, and not fold when the going gets tough.

I want a candidate who has the courage to stand up for his convictions. In other words, a candidate who stands for something.

I also want a candidate who understands the need to represent his party and the people who vote for him. (For a politician to have integrity, this is imperitive.)

So?

When JK voted for the War, Pat Act, NCLB he showed to me that he didn't have what it took, to be the Commander-in-Chief. He was more concerned about what is the *popular* thing to do, than what it takes to be a true leader.

These Bush enabling acts alone make me question his committment to his beliefs. The very beliefs which he sold quite well to his "followers." In my mind, if he is a man of integrity, he should have weathered the storm of scrutiny, as Dennis Kucinich has done.

Kucinich has not wavered in the face of scrutiny, ridicule and dismissiveness. Even though I feel that his candidacy is a distraction at this point in time, I DO admire him him not giving up or giving in.

So I have to question, not only if John Kerry really believes in what he gives speeches on, but I also have to question just how hard he really would fight for us citizens, if he was willing to give up on himself and us so easily.

One last thing. I would also like a candidate whose track record jibes with his platform. For Kerry, there seemed to be a disconnect here. His record as Senator suggests to me that he was a wishy washy back bone lacking slug. Yet his presidential campaign strikes me as that of a copy cat. He stole Dean's message and made it his own?

Why the change? I don't know, but I think it is a fair question to ask.

Many will take this post as flame bait, but these are musings that have been gnawing at me for some time.

[Demobrat]

130. I don't see a disconnect at all.

He voted for the war because he thought it would be popular. He stole Deans message because it was popular. He just does whatever he thinks will be popular. No disconnect at all for me.

[mzmolly]

131. LOL *John Kerry for Prom King*

Howard Dean for President! :P

[littlejoe]

144. Howard Dean--R.I.P., loser.

[mzmolly]

150. Awe, Joe... this lil thread you started is getting to you ey?

*tsk tsk...

And, you sounded so *sincere* originally :eyes:

[mzmolly]

133. liljoe. I had some fun with this... where are you?

;)

[littlejoe]

138. Man cannot live by retorts alone. Needed food.

[Forkboy]

141. No wonder you were starving

[littlejoe]

146. Spoken like a true Deanie-baby. Bwaaaaah!

[Forkboy]

152. Er,I'm not a Dean supporter

I dont even have to try to make you look ignorant,you do it for me!

[mzmolly]

149. LOL

:yourock:

[mzmolly]

154. Shouldn't YOU feed people before asking for food yourself?

:shrug:

[uhhuh]

159. Quitter!!!

So, you didn't have what it takes to go without food, and when presented with a little discomfort, you "folded like a tent", and left us Democrats without guidance.
You sold us out! All of us who believed you could support your argument, and not be forced to give in human needs like sustinance.
You didn't need food. You just took the coward's way out and didn't stand by your convictions. You failed to live up to the image you sold us!
I'm so disillusioned! If I hadn't already voted for Dean today, I would would have to now, since I have been so misled by you.

/sarcasm

[mzmolly]

162. LOL

:)

[progressivebydesign]

137. I'd vote for him again in a heartbeat!

To see your "logic" that Dean "folded like a tent" is just sickening. The man was driven out. He had more delegates than the other remaining candidates, except Kerry, yet he was pushed out by people just like yourself who claimed he was hurting our chances to win in November. You can't have it both ways... I'm so fucking sick of the attacks on Dean.. and they continue. He was the real deal and he was chewed up and spit out. Dean has no disconnect. He was real, he is real, I"m just so tired of defending him. I have no interest in Kerry, no excitement about him.. but I guess I'll have to do what's right and vote for him. Where's the democracy in that??

[Guaranteed]

140. Worst spin I've ever heard.

You sound like Scott McClellan.

[littlejoe]

147. The worst spin that I've ever heard is all this delusional talk

about your politically dead candidate. Tweetie would laugh in your face.

[Guaranteed]

153. Look, Scott...

You can get down on your knees and thank my "politically dead" candidate for saving your pansy ass and this entire party, you ungrateful bastard.

[mzmolly]

157. Damn Right!

If the Dems win, it will be *in no small part* BECAUSE of Howard Dean!

[littlejoe]

169. Another Deanie-baby to add to my collection.

[Cleita]

142. Too bad I already did and I don't regret it a bit.

Your reasons are stretching a bit IMHO to try to get people not to vote for Dean at the last minute.

[Habibi]

145. Yes, it is flame bait.

And I voted for Dean. Live with it.

[RKO]

148. To all those people who voted for Dean tonight...

I ask...why? Why did you prolong the inevitability of Kerry winning? Why could you all just unite under Kerry?

[Dennis Quaranta]

156. Inevitable Kerry

Actually, Kerry is not inevitable. It may not be worth it for Dean to campaign actively for the presidency, but there's still a possibility that nobody will have won the nomination before the convention.

[PVnRT]

155. You're right, it is flamebait

Not that I'm surprised, frankly.

[littlejoe]

170. Oh, to be holier than thou.....

[Forkboy]

175. tell us about it

:eyes:

[Spirochete]

158. I want the two

minutes of my life back that I wasted reading that post.

But don't worry - I'll be voting for your guy - I mean, it's not like I have a choice.

I remember the same day Dean dropped out, you were on here posting about all the Dean supporters sucking it up and voting for YOUR candidate. So I doubt you were a Dean supporter even before he dropped out.

[littlejoe]

171. You are approximately the tenth person who misread the post.

Or did you really?

[milkyway]

163. Congratulations. This is one of the most ridiculous posts ever. nt

[edzontar]

164. And by the way, Dean won Vermont.

nt.

[littlejoe]

172. News flash... dean will win the nomination now.

he won his home state. He's on a roll.

[joefree1]

165. The backbone transplant was successful, thank you Dr. Dean!

My wife and I are off to vote for Dean here in California.

The fear of the grassroots movement Dean started, and we will continue, scares the heck out of the Washington elite. While we will support Kerry against Bush we've only just began to take back America.

Boo!

[RetroLounge]

173. Hey, Dean won Vermont!

Where's your congatulations?

[Polemonium]

174. Ahh Kerry supporters continue to alienate the rest of us

how predictable. And folks wonder why some are thinking about jumping to third party candidates. If you work for the Kerry campaign you should be fired.

[Forkboy]

176. Even I can't hold this against Kerry

Blame the parents :D

[littlejoe]

177. You all have done a very good job of that by youselves.

On this website, you all seem to have an inflated opinion as to your importance within the party.

In reality, you represent a splinter faction of the party, thank god.

[littlejoe]

178. We have very little in common.

[Forkboy]

181. no shit

[littlejoe]

179. Goodnight all. It's all over but the crying.

[For PaisAn]

180. I'll ask you a second time

Why are you concerned about who any of us vote for in the Primary? That's the real question?
Please explain how on earth it has any bearing on the General Election or whether we will beat Bush or not.