Obama returns to Clinton's war vote

[usregimechange]

BEAUFORT, S.C. - Democrat Barack Obama suggested Thursday that Hillary Rodham Clinton cannot be trusted to make good judgments on national security and military matters, citing her Iraq war vote.

Obama, accusing the New York senator of trying "to rewrite history," said Clinton still contends that her 2002 vote authorizing military intervention in Iraq was "not really a vote for war."

"She cast her vote after failing to read the national intelligence estimates on Iraq," which raised doubts in some lawmakers' minds about the justification of ousting Saddam Hussein, Obama said during a discussion with armed service members.

Obama, who was in the Illinois Senate at the time, publicly opposed the invasion.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080125/ap_on_el_pr/obama_33


"No, I don't regret giving the president authority because at the time it was in the context of weapons of mass destruction, grave threats to the United States, and clearly, Saddam Hussein had been a real problem for the international community for more than a decade." Hillary Clinton, Wednesday, April 21, 2004 CNN's "Larry King Live."

[aquart]

1. What else has he got to work with?

[usregimechange]

3. Plenty but isn't that enough?

[niceypoo]

46. When will he or his supporters start pushing his POSITIONS?

... or do they believe that endlessly attacking the other candidates is, "enough."

[bellasgrams]

52. No it's not enough because BO himself has flipflopped on the

War vote that he would or wouldn't have made.

[jackson_dem]

7. Yup. Desperation anyone?

[usregimechange]

15. Last I check the Iraq war was important for progressive activists

[jackson_dem]

20. Obama's record sucks too

The difference is Obama doesn't own up to it.

While running for Senate in 2003, Sen. Obama acknowledged that he took his anti-war speech off his campaign website, calling it 'dated.' Specifically, State Senator Obama maintains that an October 2002 anti-war speech was removed from his campaign web site because - the speech was dated once the formal phase of the war was over, and my staff's desire to continually provide fresh news clips."

In 2004, Sen. Obama said he didn’t know how he would have voted on the Iraq War resolution. When asked about Senators Kerry and Edwards' votes on the Iraq war, Obama said, "I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports,’ Mr. Obama said. ‘What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made.’ -- Note: No one disputes that Sen. Obama opposed the war from his "vantage point" as a part-time state senator in Illinois. The point we are making is that Sen. Obama acknowledged that he did not know how he would have voted had his vantage point been from the U.S. Senate.

In 2004, Sen. Obama also said there was little difference between his position and George Bush’s position on Iraq. In a meeting with Chicago Tribune reporters at the Democratic National Convention, Obama said, "On Iraq, on paper, there's not as much difference, I think, between the Bush administration and a Kerry administration as there would have been a year ago. <...> There's not much of a difference between my position and George Bush's position at this stage."

Until he ran for president, Sen. Obama supported every funding bill for Iraq, some $300 billion. <2005 Vote # 117, HR1268, 5/10/05; 2005 Vote # 326, S1042, 11/15/05; 2006 Vote # 112, HR4939, 5/4/06; 2006 Vote # 239; 2006 Vote # 186, S2766, 6/22/06, HR5631, 9/7/06>

Sen. Obama waited 18 months to give his first speech on the Senate floor devoted to Iraq, in which he opposed a timeline for withdrawal. Obama said "I'm also acutely aware that a precipitous withdrawal of our troops, driven by Congressional edict rather than the realities on the ground, will not undo the mistakes made by this Administration. It could compound them."

Sen. Obama didn't introduce legislation to end the Iraq war until he started running for president.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=5161

[usregimechange]

26. What? He took a speech off his web site = he did not oppose the war?

If you were on a jury and just heard that...

[earthlover]

44. Hillary didn't have an anti-war speech to take off of her website.....

Of course this does not stop the Hillary Herd from attacking Obama on the issue their Herd Leader has waffled on from the start

[earthlover]

36. you have to remember....if Hilllary supports it, it must be ok....

I have laughed out loud at some of the Hillary Herd rhapsodizing about how good WalMart is, now that they learned that the herd leader was on the board.

Pretty soon we will hear how the IWR wasn't all that bad, it didn't give Bush the authorization to go to war....oh wait....we already hear this bush-shit.

Arguing the case against Iraq is not an act of desperation...it is something that all candidates who are serious about our support should bring up! Too bad Hillary didn't read the intelligence briefings that were provided her. If anything shows what kind of president she would be, not reading the intelligence briefings is illustrative.

[usregimechange]

41. I bet she read some polls before voting!

[bellasgrams]

53. Now that we heard she was on the board? Where were you

in the 80's when everyone was talking about it. I guess people have realized it's no big deal. It was an honest job.

[earthlover]

57. Where was I at that time? Owning a small business

You know, like the small businesses that shut down in the wake of WalMart going into a town. Whether that is right or wrong is subject to debate. The Republicans see nothing wrong with it, and they are entitled to their opinion.

"Honest work"? Hillary was appointed to the Board basically because she was a connected person, a member of the establishment class, the wife of Bill the Governor. Contrast that to the people who did honest work as factory workers who lost their jobs when their plants relocated overseas....and local small business owners who had to close their doors because WalMart came into town and they could not compete. Or the honest work of Walmart workers who are forced to work without benefits, are regularly given just enough hours not to be considered full time, and fired if they try to unionize.

[rodeodance]

13. not much it seems. A new speechwriter might think of something?

[Barack_America]

2. And that's right where the debate should be.

Fuck them and their dirty politics.

I'm sorry for the language, but that's where I'm at right now.

[sunonmars]

29. right back at you

Fuck Obama and his dirty politics.

2 can play that game

[msongs]

4. the self-procclaimed "proud christian" isnt doing much to end the occupation NOW is he? nt

[FrenchieCat]

12. I disagree with you. Obama has done much in reference to this war

that he was against from the start....just like me!

IRAQ: Obama Consistently Opposed the Iraq War.

In January of 2005, Obama criticized Condoleezza Rice for not offering a timetable for withdrawal;

In February he criticized the Administration’s policy in Iraq while praising our troops;

In May and June, he called security in Iraq “horrible” and criticized the Administration for linking the 9/11 attacks and the war in Iraq;

And in October and November, he called for a phased withdrawal of our troops, saying that we should “get out as soon as we can.”

Obama called for a phased withdrawal of our troops in November of 2005 and voted for an amendment stating that the US should not “stay in Iraq indefinitely.”

He consistently called for troop withdrawal throughout 2006, and voted for a resolution in June urging the President to begin troop withdrawal during 2006.

Obama spoke out against the surge the same night Bush announced it, and introduced his bill to end the war at the end of January, which would have prohibited the surge and set a timetable for withdrawal of all combat troops by the end of March 2008.

That bill became the template for the Democratic caucus’ position.

IRAQ: Obama Has Consistently Opposed A Blank Check for Iraq.

Since Obama came to Washington in January of 2005, every single Senate Democrat has voted for every single Iraq funding bill that has come to the Senate floor until President Bush vetoed a timetable for withdrawal.

After that, Obama voted against funding for the war, stating that “This vote is a choice between validating the same failed policy in Iraq that has cost us so many lives and demanding a new one…We should not give the President a blank check to continue down this same, disastrous path. With my vote today, I am saying to the President that enough is enough. We must negotiate a better plan that funds our troops, signals to the Iraqis that it is time for them to act and that begins to bring our brave servicemen and women home safely and responsibly.”

IRAQ: Clinton Continues to Unfairly Truncate Obama’s Quote on Iraq. Below is the full excerpt from the New York Times:

“He opposed the war in Iraq, and spoke against it during a rally in Chicago in the fall of 2002. He said then that he saw no evidence that Iraq had unconventional weapons that posed a threat, or of any link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. “In a recent interview, he declined to criticize Senators Kerry and Edwards for voting to authorize the war, although he said he would not have done the same based on the information he had at the time.

“‘But, I’m not privy to Senate intelligence reports,’ Mr. Obama said. ‘What would I have done? I don’t know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made.’

“But Mr. Obama said he did fault Democratic leaders for failing to ask enough tough questions of the Bush administration to force it to prove its case for war. ‘What I don’t think was appropriate was the degree to which Congress gave the president a pass on this,’ he said.”
http://thepage.time.com/obama-camp-memo-on-clintons-mtp-iraq-statements/

[jackson_dem]

22. BS. He did nothing to end the war until he began running for president

[jasmine621]

33. Yes, he has voted the same way as HC since...except for one vote. nt

[Radical Activist]

50. Yes, because Hillary eventually started voting against the war too

far too late. What does that prove?

[BeatleBoot]

5. That was the vote where he didn't vote because he wasn't in the game yet.

Armchair Quarterback Obama hopes to score a touchdown on Monday morning.

Did I just say that?

The audacity of me!

[rodeodance]

11. then he said next time-he did know know how he would have voted and said he

agreed with bush plan. Waffle much?

[FrenchieCat]

16. I marched against war....and I say his voice counted......a lot!

We were looking for voices to speak out then, or don't you remember? I used to stay up all night to listen to Ray Talliaffero, who was on from 1:00 p.m. till 4:00 in the morning....just so that I would hear voices that thought like mine. Do you know how terrible that felt?

So it's not the votes as much as the posture that one took. The vote itself is a technicality......but one with large implications.

You sure in the heck do have some audacity, feeling like you get to decide that only 100 folks with a vote were all that was important! Who died and made you king of the Senate? :shrug:

[The_Casual_Observer]

39. He could have voted against those authorizations.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. Yet, given the chance to do something himself, he voted yes for years

to fund the war. What sense that make make?

[usregimechange]

9. For the same reason Biden did but it would have not been necessary if sell out Dems

would have voted against its authorization. Edwards can admit he was wrong. Hillary isn't sure.

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. It's pure hypocrisy. However, it's matters not. He's already lost.

[BeatleBoot]

23. So, you're calling Hillary a "sissy"....errr...now it's "sellout"

And how did Obama vote on that war resolution?

Oh, yeah, he wasn't there, because he wasn't even a player then.

Too funny!

"But he would have voted against it on account of he's decisive and stuff.."

:rofl:

That whole argument is soo funny.

It's okay, you can call 'em sissies, if you want to.

[earthlover]

48. No....the deaths and maiming of hundreds of thousands of people is not funny

How can you make light of such a carnage? where is your humanity? It is not something to laugh about.

The difference between Hillary and Obama: Hillary had the intelligence briefings at her disposal, refused to read them or just plain was lazy, anyhow they didn't get read...and she went along with Bush's War Resolution and voted AGAINST every single amendment which would have bought some more time in our rush to war. Obama did not have the intelligence briefings at his disposal, but he was perceptive enough to know that the Iraq War was wrong and publically spoke out against it. Hillary voted for, Obama spoke out against.

[BeatleBoot]

58. I'm only making light of Obama's Argument - not the war

The Monday Morning Quarterback says, "I would have scored a touchdown and won the game if I was there."

The problem is: he wasn't even a player then. We'll never know how he would have voted because he wasn't even in the game yet.

It's probably one of the most hair-brained arguments someone could make.

But nice try there in trying to change the subject. It didn't work, but I offer an "A" for effort.

In fact, for the same reasons, I'll give the Obama campaign an "A" for effort, too.








:rofl:

[jackson_dem]

27. Obama ran hard against funding the war when he was in a senate primary

What "changed" when he won and what "changed" in 2007?

Plus his vote was never needed to pass a funding bill. He could have cast a symbolic vote against it, like he would do after running for president but he did not.

[BeatleBoot]

31. So he was "against funding the war- before he funded it" ?

The pukes are going to make mince meat outta that mouse.

For sure.

[usregimechange]

34. What troubles me is that some on DU are making their arguments for them

[BeatleBoot]

37. Rather have it vetted now, than lose in November

Or do you prefer the Ostrich Technique?

[usregimechange]

43. True, it has been "vetted" and rejected as GOP Rove tactics.

[BeatleBoot]

45. By whom?

Just asking?

[usregimechange]

32. And here is the truth...

Obama explained that position yesterday by saying that his initial opposition to the $87 billion was based on the fact that $20 billion of that sum was earmarked for reconstruction projects that he feared would be awarded by the White House in no-bid contracts.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/03/22/obama_defends_votes_in_favor_of_iraq_funding/

[jackson_dem]

40. Here is what he said at the time

-snip-

Obama challenged the Congress to 'stand up to the misplaced priorities of this Administration' by delaying the $87 billion for Iraq until the President provides a specific plan and timetable for ending the U.S. occupation, justifies each and every dollar to ensure it is not going to reward Bush political friends and contributors, and provides 'investment in our own schools, health care, economic development and job creation that is at least comparable' to what is going to Iraq. 'It's not just Iraq that needs rebuilding. It's America, too,' Obama said.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/01/6786_desperate_in_nh_1.html

He demanded a timetable for withdrawal when a candidate but then opposing it, voted against it (Kerry-Feingold) when elected as shown above.

[FrenchieCat]

25. This statement of yours, a talking point that Mrs. Clinton uses regularily.....

is what is hypocritical.....because he funded the troops just like Ms. Clinton did.

But, that is not all that he did, and that is why I consider you an intellectually dishonest poster.

[earthlover]

47. I believe Hillary did too....

Obama has made this quite clear, to anyone who has ears....he opposed the war, but he did not want to vote to prevent our soldiers who are there from getting the best equipment, etc.

Can the Hillary Herd seriously raise this issue when Hillary also voted for the money? Fact of the matter is, if the Senate listened to people like Obama there would not be spending bills for troops to vote on in the first place!

[jasmine621]

8. Well, then, neither can John Edwards be trusted nor any of the others

who voted for that IWR.

[FrenchieCat]

28. Bingo......

[MethuenProgressive]

10. He voted with Clinton on EVERY Iraq War vote - once he was Present in the Senate.

His anti-War "record" is a Fairy Tale.

[FrenchieCat]

30. Not quite - I see a Kyl-Lieberman vote in Hillary....

and not voting for it is hella better than vote FOR it.

Desperate in NH: Fibbing About Obama and Iraq?
Campaigning in Dover, New Hampshire the day before the primary, Senator Hillary Clinton once again pounded Barack Obama for being big on talk and small on deeds. And before a crowd that could barely fill half of a modest-sized gymnasium, she continued to claim that Obama is a disingenuous politician, no noble and inspiring force of change. Using the thin opposition research her campaign operatives have managed to unearth on her rival, she recited what's becoming the campaign's regular litany of Obama's alleged hypocrisies. Saying you oppose the Patriot Act and then voting to extend it—"that's not change," she declared. Saying you're against special interest lobbying and then having a lobbyist co-chair your New Hampshire campaign—"that's not change," she thundered. Saying in a campaign speech that you will not vote to fund the Iraq war and then voting for $300 billion in war financing—"that's not change," she exclaimed. After the event, in an interview with Fox News, Clinton was even sharper. She referred to Obama's (and John Edwards') "hypocrisy," and said, "Senator Obama has changed many of his positions." Voters, she insisted, deserved to know this: "Talk is, as they say, cheap."

Her charges against Obama have generally been weak—standard truth-stretchers for standard political campaigns. But in casting Obama as a phony on the Iraq war, Clinton has veered close to outright lying.

Yesterday, in an interview with CNN, Clinton said:

If someone is going to claim that by their very words they are making change, then if those words say... I'm against the war in Iraq and I'll never vote for funding and then, when they go to the Senate, they vote for 300 billion dollars' worth of funding , I think it's time for people to say, "Wait a minute, let's get real here." There's a big difference between talking and acting, between rhetoric and reality.

Did Obama actually vow, as Clinton said, to never vote for funds for the Iraq war? If he had, he would indeed be a major promise-breaker—and a fraud on a critical issue for Democratic voters. This was a powerful allegation.

I sent an email to a Clinton spokesperson who specializes in opposition research, asking for a citation to back up this charge. He quickly replied with a link for a page on a Clinton campaign website that contains a quote from a speech Obama delivered in November 2003, when he was running for Senate:

Just this week, when I was asked, would I have voted for the $87 billion dollars , I said no. I said no unequivocally because, at a certain point, we have to say no to George Bush. If we keep on getting steamrolled, we are not going to stand a chance.
Is it possible to read that statement as a promise never to vote for Iraq war funds? Not by any reasonable interpretation. In fact, during Obama's Senate campaign, he explained his opposition to this particular war funding bill in detail. From a September 29, 2003 Obama press release:

Obama challenged the Congress to 'stand up to the misplaced priorities of this Administration' by delaying the $87 billion for Iraq until the President provides a specific plan and timetable for ending the U.S. occupation, justifies each and every dollar to ensure it is not going to reward Bush political friends and contributors, and provides 'investment in our own schools, health care, economic development and job creation that is at least comparable' to what is going to Iraq. 'It's not just Iraq that needs rebuilding. It's America, too,' Obama said.

Perhaps as an opponent of the Iraq war, Obama could have been expected to vote against funds for the war once he reached the Senate. But he, like Clinton (who now opposes the war) and other Senate Democrats, have continually voted for funds, while attempting (albeit unsuccessfully) to attach conditions and timetables to that funding. Because Clinton cannot attack Obama on the policy—given that they have voted the same—she has accused him of being a hypocrite. But where was the beef?

I sent the Clinton oppo guy a follow-up email:

I looked at the quote . He was clearly speaking about the $87 billion package. But what Sen. Clinton told CNN was that Obama said, "I'll never vote for funding." He doesn't say that in the quote. Was she accurately quoting him?
I received no response.

As Hillary Clinton was leaving Dover, I attempted to put the question to her. She had just finished the interview with Fox and another with a local station. Inside the gym, I was two feet away from her. "Can I ask you one question about Iraq and Senator Obama?" I inquired. She looked at me for a nanosecond and walked away.

During her speech to supporters at Dover, Clinton said, that it's important to disseminate information on all the candidates "so voters can make a well-informed decision.... I will do whatever I can to make sure voters have the information they need." But ascertaining that this information is accurate is apparently not on her to-do list.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/01/6786_desperate_in_nh_1.html

Responding to Clinton’s attack on Iraq

IRAQ: Obama Consistently Opposed the Iraq War.
In January of 2005, Obama criticized Condoleezza Rice for not offering a timetable for withdrawal;

in February he criticized the Administration’s policy in Iraq while praising our troops;

in May and June, he called security in Iraq “horrible” and criticized the Administration for linking the 9/11 attacks and the war in Iraq;

and in October and November, he called for a phased withdrawal of our troops, saying that we should “get out as soon as we can.”

Obama called for a phased withdrawal of our troops in November of 2005 and voted for an amendment stating that the US should not “stay in Iraq indefinitely.”

He consistently called for troop withdrawal throughout 2006, and voted for a resolution in June urging the President to begin troop withdrawal during 2006.

Obama spoke out against the surge the same night Bush announced it, and introduced his bill to end the war at the end of January, which would have prohibited the surge and set a timetable for withdrawal of all combat troops by the end of March 2008.

That bill became the template for the Democratic caucus’ position.

IRAQ: Obama Has Consistently Opposed A Blank Check for Iraq.

Since Obama came to Washington in January of 2005, every single Senate Democrat has voted for every single Iraq funding bill that has come to the Senate floor until President Bush vetoed a timetable for withdrawal.

After that, Obama voted against funding for the war, stating that “This vote is a choice between validating the same failed policy in Iraq that has cost us so many lives and demanding a new one…We should not give the President a blank check to continue down this same, disastrous path. With my vote today, I am saying to the President that enough is enough. We must negotiate a better plan that funds our troops, signals to the Iraqis that it is time for them to act and that begins to bring our brave servicemen and women home safely and responsibly.”

IRAQ: Clinton Continues to Unfairly Truncate Obama’s Quote on Iraq. Below is the full excerpt from the New York Times:

“He opposed the war in Iraq, and spoke against it during a rally in Chicago in the fall of 2002. He said then that he saw no evidence that Iraq had unconventional weapons that posed a threat, or of any link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. “In a recent interview, he declined to criticize Senators Kerry and Edwards for voting to authorize the war, although he said he would not have done the same based on the information he had at the time.

“‘But, I’m not privy to Senate intelligence reports,’ Mr. Obama said. ‘What would I have done? I don’t know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made.’

“But Mr. Obama said he did fault Democratic leaders for failing to ask enough tough questions of the Bush administration to force it to prove its case for war. ‘What I don’t think was appropriate was the degree to which Congress gave the president a pass on this,’ he said.”
http://thepage.time.com/obama-camp-memo-on-clintons-mtp-iraq-statements/

PS. Barack, just remember how users are. They use you when they can, and then jump on you when your back is turned. remember barack, you are dealing with vultures when you deal with the Clintons, who were handing out the talking points for the seat of their confidente, DNC Chair McAuliffe.




Now contrast that to this:


"That's why I supported the Iraq thing." Bill Clinton, June 23, 2004 (CNN)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/index.html

"I opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning." Bill Clinton, 11/27/2007, (NYT)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/us/politics/28clinton.html?ex=1353906000&en=cf3f18a5f01db61b&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

So who flipped & flopped?

[MethuenProgressive]

35. You don't know the difference between IraQ and IraN?

Silly Obama Supporter.

[FrenchieCat]

56. Does it matter? She voted YES on all things war.....whether Iraq or Iran

[jackson_dem]

42. Obama has the same position on the IRG, or at least he did 6 months before Kyl-Lieberman

He didn't have a position on Kyl-Lieberman until after he saw Hillary attacked over it. There was a debate the night of Kyle-Lieberman and Obama said nothing about the bill while Edwards and Gravel denounced it.

[jasmine621]

17. John Kerry voted the same way as HC on the IWR.

Does that mean his judgement is bad... OH, wait, didn't John Kerry endorse Obama?

I rest the case.

[babylonsister]

19. He also publically admitted he made a mistake. Has she? nt

[jackson_dem]

18. Obama the hypocrite? His new lapdog Kerry voted for it too

[usregimechange]

21. So now supporters of a candidate hove to have voted a certain way

Crimeny.

[earthlover]

49. You are calling Kerry a lap dog?

Heck that is pretty brazen for someone who has for his avatar someone who slaughtered Native Americans.

[suston96]

24. She didn't vote for him to go to war...read what she said.....

"My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world.

*******

...... A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed."

[usregimechange]

38. I wonder if members of the Reichstag said that about the enabling act?

[paulk]

54. hyperbole much?

really.

try to contain your comments within the real world.

this isn't nazi germany.

[David Zephyr]

51. It's time to speak the truth and spotlight her giving "authority" to Bush to make war in Iraq.

1 million dead in Iraq.

[johnnydrama]

55. wow

She expected George W Bush to use the powers that she helped give him wisely and this is what her supporters tout?

George W Bush? Hello???

[CyberPieHole]

59. This from a man who admits to "pushing the wrong button"...

:rofl: