If Dean wins Vermont (according to some sources he is)

[WI_DEM]

According to some sources/ exit polls--and a report on CNN--Howard Dean may win Vermont. One estimate is that he is winning 63% of the vote there. If this happens it would be a tremendous tribute to a Great Democrat from the people who know him best. Undoubtably a personal victory on his part and one I think he can savor and his supporters can rejoice in.

If he wins Vermont I will be a very happy man.

on edit:
It was pointed out to me that savor was spelled as savior which a couple of people thought was "revealing". So I corrected it. Dean was no messiah but he sure as hell inspired alot of us.

[democratreformed]

1. Congrats to you all. That is totally awesome.

I am proud for ya'll.

[Uzybone]

2. It doesn't really matter

even Edwards won SC. Winning your home state (especially one as insignificant as Vermont) should be a given. Let his supporters rejoice though, I'm thinking Dean will be happier once Bush is ejected from the WH.

[Monument]

3. If it's true, congrats!

[TomSeaver]

4. Good Job

he should be the DNC chair

[NightNurse]

7. Sorry! He was a little loose with the $45 Mil to be Our Dem Chair.

Try winning a Senate Seat from Vermont. Now THAT would help.

[Jersey Devil]

25. Who is he gonna beat? Jeffords? Leahy?

Have him move to another state first.

[lastliberalintexas]

26. We already have both of them

since Jeffords caucases with the Dems. So which would you rather he go after, Leahy or Jeffords? :shrug:

[Jersey Devil]

23. Quite a fastball you have there Tom

Welcome to DU.

I do agree with you. With the fire he has in his belly he'd make a hellova DNC chair.

[WI_DEM]

13. thank you

for your graciousness.

[flpoljunkie]

20. I agree. Congratulations to Howard Dean and the citizens of Vermont.

They are loyal to their guy. How can you argue with that.

[dsc]

5. several democrats didn't win their home states in primaries

Jerry Brown didn't in 92, neither Sharpton nor Kucinich will this year, Clark is likely not to win his, Bradley didn't win his in 2000. If these numbers are anything like accurate Dean pulled off a miracle.

[Green Mountain Dem]

6. Vermont...

INSIGNIFICANT !!!!!! Hello !!!!!

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

22. Haven't you heard?

Vermont isn't really a state! People there don't vote or pay income tax or sales tax. It's just a colony that Canada annexed.

The NERVE of some people thinking they deserve some kind of voice when they live in such an "insignificant" state. As we all know, small states don't have electoral college points, especially not ones that we might need in a razor-thin squeaker of an election.

How soon people forget that the 2000 election was won by such a large margin that it would have been insignificant if Al Gore had won his own 3-point state.

</sarcasm>

[Green Mountain Dem]

27. LMAO...

sometimes I wish we were part of Canada.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

28. I fully understand

I live in New York City and I would love to secede.

[Green Mountain Dem]

29. well funny you should mention that.....

a small town in the southern part of Vermont (Killington) voted to secede to NH today by a majority vote.

[maxanne]

31. yikes

you guys are nuts! I live in NH -

Why would anyone trade Leahy, Saunders, and Jeffords for Gregg, Sununu, and Bass?? :puke:

[Green Mountain Dem]

44. three reasons.....

taxes...taxes...taxes...but that town is primarily a winter ski resort and they don't think they should help pay for education when they just come to play.

[maxanne]

49. hmmm

did no one tell them about property taxes in NH?? Among the highest in the nation.

[NashVegas]

85. Lot of Landlords There

A lot of Killington people - whether they actually live there or not - make money renting out seasonal homes. Taxes cut into their profit margins.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

34. Vomit!

That's horrible. But you knew that already.

[maxanne]

50. hey,

you dissin my state, Danny?? ;-)

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

54. Yes!

Actually, no. I just find it a little weird that a town in one state would flip like that to a neighboring state. I've never heard of that happening before.

[maxanne]

57. it's okay

I'm dissing it. They seem to think they'll get a tax break in NH -

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha

plus they sure as hell aren't going to like their legislators.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

63. I think a lot of people

who don't live there seem to believe that if you live in NH then you don't pay ANY taxes at all, of any kind, which just isn't the case. They put way too much stock in a license plate slogan.

And you're right, they won't like their new legislators one bit.

[maxanne]

67. ha

wait'll they find out the NH House has been controlled by the Republican party since the Civil War!!

I mean, hell - Jeanne Shaheen was considered a "Liberal" Democrat here.

[Green Mountain Dem]

77. I liked Jeanne....

how bout Bernie for Pres...ya gotta love him !!

[maxanne]

91. I do love Bernie

absolutely. He'd be a great pres!!

Jeanne's a nice lady, but she ain't no liberal. In a sane world she'd be a moderate Republican.

[KaraokeKarlton]

86. maxanne, I heard NH might do away with public kindergarden again

Have you heard anything about that?

[maxanne]

92. nothing serious

Karlton - but the legislature is always trying to find a way to do away with education, period. Seeing as how this is an election year, I don't think they want to put something like that on the table, given the outcry it will cause. Some of the dunderheads are going to have a difficult time getting reelected, after the budget wrangling last year.

It's rumored that one of our state senators (R) is going to run against Benson. :o

[BL_Zebub]

81. Sell the island back to the Native Americans for $30.

Hell, you can still claim a profit(original price $24), and Junior will probably give you a huge tax cut for the real estate deal.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

82. Never!

I can get French Toast delivered to my apartment at 3 am on a Tuesday. The Native Americans can have it back when they pry the French Toast from my cold dead hands.

[WI_DEM]

10. doesn't matter?

It makes it all worth while having the people who know you best stand behind you and say "Thank you". I can understand if he was still an active candidate it not being important, but since he has suspended his campaign--it is an affirmation. Remember it doesn't always happen. Gephardt ended his campaign and barely made a dent in Missouri--even in his own district.

[KaraokeKarlton]

15. But Edwards hadn't dropped out of the race

Dean taking Vermont is a huge slap in the face to Kerry because it tells the country that Vermont would rather vote for the great leader they know who isn't running than the frontrunner.

[Sean Reynolds]

30. Wrong.

Edwards was still campaigning when he won his state. Did Gephardt win his state when he dropped out? What about Lieberman? Will Braun win her state? Will Kucinich, an active candidate, win his?

It DOES matter because it shows that Vermonters LOVE Dean and they'd even vote for him even though he has no chance of winning the nomination.

[Maddy McCall]

8. He ventured nothing, thus he gained nothing...

He pulled out of the race before Vermont. Since he ventured nothing there, a win would cast him in a favorable light--he could say, "I didn't even run and I won." But he was smart to pull out before Vermont, because, in the case of a loss, he could say, "I wasn't running so I never expected to win."

Barely more than 50% of Vermont's voters supported him in his last election (he carried the majority by less than a half of a percent), and that is a bad omen for an incumbent.

He knew he potentially faced the huge embarrassment of a defeat on his own turf in the primary election--I think this was at least a partial motivator in him withdrawing before Vermont--to save face in case of a loss.

At any rate, he folded his tent when he should have. He knew his candidacy was dead.

[WI_DEM]

17. it is worth remembering too

that in his final election as governor (his fifth) he was running against a GOP which was strongly attacking him on gay unions and had strong opposition on his left. He overcame both and in some ways that election is his most impressive of all.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Maddy McCall]

33. Nah, I am discussing the issue at hand...

it's really not that hard to do.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[Algorem]

43. A whole

lot of Kerry supporters are like that.

[mitchum]

41. Yes, you are...

but some are seemingly immune to reason

[mitchum]

40. deleted by mitchum

What's the point of being "so vicious" (even though I'm right)?

[dsc]

45. The number here is about 1/3

of those with Kerry avitars who have been utterly graceless. I don't think it is at all unreasonable to assume that there is something like 1/6 behaving that way in the real world. I frankly don't have a lot of money and won't see 1/6 of it going to such a graceless lot.

BTW that cheap shot with Gacy, you certainly belong in the graceless lot.

Bells rung can't be unrung. Again a stunningly cheap shot. Would you have brought up Horton to a black poster? I highly doubt it you are utterly without grace.

[mitchum]

51. Hey, if you tar with a brush...

you're bound to get some on you. Words to remember

Nothing cheap about it (unless you consider your own reasoning cheap)

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

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[mitchum]

53. Not a homophobe at all....

and I never said that (1/3 gay/serial killers). I only used your own flawed "logic" to point out your own bigotry against others.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[Maddy McCall]

59. Wow, talking about staying on topic.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[Maddy McCall]

68. It's ok...

I saw the way your immune post was purposefully distorted in such a way to raise DU's GLBT community's hackles. I saw what you had posted originally, and the complete distortion of that was obvious, as was the purpose in distorting it.

I'm used to these tactics now, though. :-)

[mitchum]

73. Thank you

:)

The damnedest thing is, that implication never even entered my mind. I'm quite skilled at being cutting and vicious, but I would have never implied something so vile.

[Maddy McCall]

75. What's funny is that you mentioned NO candidate, no candidate's supporters

and CERTAINLY NO MENTION of anything related to gays at all!

I saw through his motives.

[mitchum]

64. I guess you think I'm not a bigot...

SINCE YOU"RE STILL DEALING WITH ME

But since I have better things to do, I'm no longer dealing with you.

[Maddy McCall]

71. If you can't dispute the facts,go on the offensive with vitriol.

:eyes: Or better yet, attack the messenger on a topic completely unrelated to the one at hand. :-)

[DancingBear]

9. If he wins it - congrats everyone

You deserve it! :toast:

[MAlibdem]

11. That's good

I think it is good that Howard Dean wins a state...he iwas as much of a contender as and probably more of a force than Wes Clark or John Edwards

[Lefta Dissenter]

12. Well, that would be cool

for him and his supporters! :bounce:

[Zynx]

16. Yeah it would be. I would love it!

By this logic, he should have suspended his campaign earlier. ;)

[JHBowden]

14. Dean can "savior" ?

I think you meant savor. The slip is revealing, though. :+

[WI_DEM]

19. and you sir

read too much into things. It is nice to get excited about a candidate you believe in.

[West Coast Democrat]

24. I noticed that too!

that's funny!

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. That would be great for Dean, and not insignificant.

If Dean beats the field in Vermont by anywhere near the margin this exit poll is showing, after having suspended his campaign, it is a wonderful testimonial to Dean from the people who have always known him best. I am really happy about this, I sure hope it turns out this way. Dean did a wonderful service to our Party in many ways. Even from a mainstream perspective politicians like Kerry sharpened their attacks on Bush and became much better candidates because of the fierce push Dean and his supporters gave them throughout the long months of the race.

After being held up to national ridicule because of the pep rally toned concession speech Dean gave in Iowa, I am so pleased to see the people of Vermont standing by him. Way to go Deanies. Here's to your guy.

[leyton]

46. Well, shoot, I was gonna say something like that.

But you said it better than I would've. :)

[Auntie Bush]

88. Double those sentiments for me.

Thanks Tom for (100% of the time) putting into words just what I was thinking and feeling.

[Lexingtonian]

32. Good for him

No begrudging him this from me. Just bear in mind that Kerry didn't campaign for the win there.

Oh, and tell Howard move across the river to Hanover NH next year. He could do something productive by running against Charlie Bass or John Sununu at their next go-arounds.

[Mick Knox]

35. There goes a WHOLE 15 delegates

in the toilet.. assuming kerry gets NONE of them.. wow.. earth shattering.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

36. It would be a symbolic victory for Dean

and you know that perfectly well. No one here is saying that it would suddenly make Dean a threat to Kerry, and you know that too.

[Zynx]

37. Yeah. He could claim that he did as well as anyone else.

Winning one state. YEARGH!

[Mick Knox]

39. hehe ok point taken.

[WI_DEM]

42. I can tell it is over the top for you to understand

that or comprehend that what the post says. It is not saying he is going to be a competitive candidate again it states that the people who really count--those who know him best are thanking him for a job well done and it is a personal victory for him. But if you must be graceless about it that is up to you.

[Zynx]

47. I feel good for Howard. I supported him. Why are you criticizing me?

[BigDaddyLove]

76. I think it would be more than just a symbolic victory.........

Since only Kucinich, Kerry and Dean are on the ballots, Vermont could be said to be a sort of mini-referendum on the DLC/DNC-Progressive war that seems to be going on.

Will the majority of voters vote Kerry or will they go the Progressive route with Dean/Kucinich?

Of course it's not an entirely level playing field, as Dean was the Governor and all, but it will (at least for me) be interesting to track the results.

[MoonRiver]

48. Yes, I agree That would be a much deserved tribute to Dean.

Dean has done much to move the Dem party toward its base, and give the other candidates a spine against *. For all this I am very grateful to Dean! :toast:

[Uzybone]

55. Vermont is probably the most

insignificant state in the nation. Im not dissing the sate. Hey Texas is very significant...so is Mississippi, but I much prefer Vermont.

The point is Dean winning the teeny weeny state where he is governor is somehow some sort of miracle??? Wow. Oh how have the mighty fallen.


edit: typo

[Zynx]

56. He is out of the race and winning his home state.

Joe Lieberman can't say that. Also, he won't be called winless anymore.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

60. So...

You can say that "Vermont is probably the most insignificant state in the nation" and yet somehow that's "not dissing the state"? Gotcha.

Once again, no one here is saying that if Dean wins Vermont tonight it's a "miracle", just that it would be a positive end to the primary season for those of us who supported him. Surely you don't have a problem with that, do you?

[zulchzulu]

61. If Dean wins VT, congrats to all his fans

Enjoy!

[Zynx]

62. Thanks. We need all we can get.

The primary season was not good to us.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

65. Thank you

It would be a nice way to end the primary season, in my opinion.

[saltpoint]

69. Didn't know about the CNN report on Dean in Vermont --

-- but if he were to do well there, or even win, it might be both an endorsement of his ideology and a way of voters saying 'thank you' to him.

It would be a well-deserved thanks, too. McAuliffe will not serve after next election as Party Chair; Howard Dean should strongly be considered to replace him.

[BigDaddyLove]

78. I've often wondered how this (Dean replacing McAuliffe) could.....

be accomplished.

That is, McAuliffe is just the head of the organization, one that seems on the whole to be fairly opposed to Dean's ideas and ideals.....how could Dean end up at the helm of such a body?

[Ketcham]

83. I'm not sure, but...

I think the president has enough influence to appoint the head of his party's national committee. I'm not sure how they're chosen when a party is out of power, though.

[efront]

70. That would definitely be cool for Dean and his supporters

Then we can just hope Dennis can nab one late so at least most everybody can claim at least one victory.

[redsoxliberal]

72. Sharpton??? n/t :-)

[Zynx]

74. Will he make a speech if he wins Vermont?

[redsoxliberal]

79. God I hope so

I'm having withdrawl symptoms.

[Zynx]

80. There are always the archives.

[Lauren2882]

84. From a Clark Supporter...

... If Dean wins VT, mad kudos to him and to his supporters. He ran an impressive campaign.
Why are all the good candidates gone?

[mzmolly]

87. The Vermont win speaks volumes. From those that know him best.

:hi:

[Auntie Bush]

89. Congratulations DEAN

My husband voted for Dean and he's beaming.

[janx]

90. Yep. They weren't fooled. n/t