I'm Crying....

[mermaid]

I am one of those who is now deeply hurting, and crying...because John Kerry is the apparent nominee. In my opinion, only Joe Lieberman could have been worse.

Take heed, Kerry-backers...please do not gloat. Those of us who did not support Kery, and supported other guys are very badly disappointed and hurting right now.

We feel betrayed once again...by our Party...by the voters who just can't stand to vote for anyone but the appaernt front-runner.

I cried when I heard Edwards concede. It was the right thing to do...and by God, the man showed incredible class, dignity, enthusiasm, and optimism that made me proud to be an Edwards supporter.

Do not worry, Kerry will get my vote...very reluctantly, in November..and only because my general dislike of Kerry on his handling of transgender issues is outweighed by my hatred of Bush.

But, unless Kerry picks Edwards or Dean for his running mate, I will not vote Kerry in '08 (assuming he beats Bush in November, of course) I'll go third-party. Scream at me if you want, but I cannot stomach supporting a man such as John Kerry, who sent me and my people to the back of the civil rights bus.

So, please, Kerry-backers...have some heart and compassion. There are many of us out there who are seriously upset, and disappointed, and even crying. Don't rub it in...okay? Be a gracious winner, take your prize, and shut up about it, okay? Please?

[Wonk]

1. Here's a virtual hug, fwiw

I know how you feel

[wjittermoss]

53. Another hug for you. My feelings exactly.

I hope Kerry will not ignore the seemingly disenfranchized among us.

[elsiesummers]

114. Thanks for your voice. I agree. My vote-sure. Volunteer/donate - difficult

I'm really dissappointed that it's not Edwards.

I am also dissappointed in myself for not viewing Kerry through an optimistic lens, when I know that this is how Edwards would want his supporters to approach things.

I could have been enthusiastic about Gephardt or Dean.

I have no enthusism for Kerry. There is simply nothing remotely middle class about Kerry - and that's a tough nut for me - he just isn't the type to have ever known what it's like to not have matching towels. It's hard to engender the enthusiasm necessary to volunteer or donate like I did for Edwards. Kerry just isn't inspiring and isn't in any way working class, and never has been.

I really miss Bill Clinton, right now, too.

Maybe if I read some posistive Kerry threads I'll find some reason to be able to sell him as a volunteer. If I was to phone bank or door knock I just wouldn't know what to say to convince voters, like I did for Edwards in Iowa.

Also - I see no reason to give hard earned money to one who is, and has always been, so rich. Why can't his rich friends foot his bill instead, you know? I don't think a man who has always been so rich can appreciate the value of one or two or five hundred dollars. I didn't feel this way about Edwards - and also knew the campaign was frugal - he started off with cut rate airline flights, for example.

Also, until I am convinced Kerry is electable I see no reason to throw good money away on him. This is a self fulfilling prophesy, so I know this makes no logical sense - but I still don't see the appeal of Kerry. Kerry seems like our Bob Dole, our cross to bear, so why waste the dough?

I'm really hoping to overcome my attitude problem. I know I have one, and it's not becoming to an Edwards supporter to not feel the optimist, but optimism seems so distant, right now.

[spychoactive]

2. c'mere...

*hug*

i hear ya

one love
spike
DK-04

[jsw_81]

3. Kerry sent you and your people to the back of the civil rights bus?

That's crap and you know it. Quit whining. We aren't going to beat this president if we act like crybabies.

[spychoactive]

7. with all due respect

the reason the mods had to split the forums up and over-regulate the posts is because the entire primary season was nothing but crybabies...don't call it whining, it's more of a lament...every dissapointed and sad dem here will be voting for kerry...have a heart...

it's called compassion...

we'll win...we just won't be as happy doing it...that's worhty of a hearty sigh

one love
spike (who still gets to vote because PA's primary date sux)
DK-04

[jsw_81]

12. Mermaid lied about Senator Kerry

Why should I let her get away with that? Because she's crying? :eyes:

[mermaid]

13. I Most Certainly Did Not...Would You Like The Original Quote?

I can post it here, if you insist...

[mermaid]

14. Here's The Quote, Read It And Weep-Then Apologize For Calling Me A Liar!

The original source of this is a questiionairre sent to all of the Democratic nominees by HRC. This is no longer available on HRC's website, but this is what was there, bolds and italics are MY ADDITION....


1a. As president, would you support and work for passage of a federal bill that outlawed discrimination in the workplace based on gender identity and expression?

KERRY: OPPOSE

Comments: I oppose discrimination of all kinds and my office policy
prohibits discrimination in the workplace based on gender identity and
expression. I believe that we should focus efforts on getting ENDA
passed and signed into law, and I am concerned that adding gender
identity and expression to the ENDA legislation is likely to
significantly hinder that effort.

So there you have it...right out of Kerry's mouth. I'm waiting on my apology for you calling me a liar.

If Kerry hadn't answered in this fashion, I might have supported him. But I cannot support someone who obviously opposes ME.

He has, in effect, sent me and transgender people like me to the back of the civil rights bus in the name of political expediency. You interpret it any differently...I dare you to. You can't.

[HuskerDem]

89. Political expediency my ass, I'd call it being realistic

You are talking about a FEDERAL bill. I can tell you without a doubt that Elm Creek, Nebraska and about a million other small towns like it all over the country are not ready for their 9th grade sons gym teacher, Mr. John Doe to show up in a nice Vera Wang number and some fabulous shoes. You wouldn't even have to head for rural America to find OVERWHELMING opposition to a federal law forcing employers to accept gender expression.

Like it or not, we don't all have the right to run around and do whatever we want - whenever we want - wherever we want and force everyone else to accept it. I might feel like a circus freak but if my employer has a regulation against visible tattoos and visible piercings other than the ear I'd be ill advised to go make myself into a human pincushion/gallery. Not the same thing you say? Talk to someone who has a plethora of body art. They'll tell you that it's a FUNDAMENTAL expression of who they are, that they've always felt the need to modify themselves and that they can't just quit and be something else and be happy and fulfilled as a person so you tell me how it's different.

In a perfect world everyone would see through to the person inside but that is not the human race. We are visually cued creatures from cradle to grave. Real progress has been made in helping the world at large understand trans-gender issues and inroads have been made towards acceptance, but a federal mandate on gender expression would have constituencies around the country coming totally unglued, including most democratic constituencies, threatening progress already made. Constituencies elect representatives, and representatives are needed to pass laws, Kerry could not do it alone.

Kerry may represent a convenient target for your dissatisfaction with the attitudes of society, but you are spiting the messenger.

[anti-NAFTA]

123. I agree with you so damn much.

Especially the thing about tattoos.

[funky_bug]

138. As always...

I'm proud to be on your team. Excellent response.

[jansu]

105. Thanks for the sig. about the dogs. My dog is just days from dying &

we have been wondering what to put on his headstone besides, "Our Bishop, Beloved Friend" I will put that quote on it. Made me laugh and cry at the same time...because it is true...where else would be so full of joy, playfulness and love. There is a reason that Dog is God spelled backwards!

And to the subject, I agree! I feel your pain and sorror. Not only for our selves, but for what could have been, for this country and for this world!

[mermaid]

9. No, It Isn't Crap

He refused to support an ENDA inclusive of transgender people...the very people who MOST need the protections it would offer.

Far as I am concerned, that is sending transgender people, like me, to thr back to the bus. So gimme a break, and allow me my tears and dissapointment. I'm truly hurting right now. I feel gut-kicked and betrayed.

[sampsonblk]

4. C'mon dude...

Neither one of these guys is the messiah. Kerry's our guy now. So its time for us to accept it and get ready for the battle.

[DoNotRefill]

5. There's an old poem that goes:

"Betrayed by the land that bore us,
forlorn by those we hold dear.
The good have all gone before us,
and only the wicked are here.
So stand to, your glasses ready,
for the world is a world full of lies.
Here's to those gone before us,
and here's to the next man that dies."

There may be some inaccuracies, since this is from memory, but you get hte idea...

[Rationality]

6. He ain't my top pick but he's not that bad

Give him four years and see how much better he can be than Bush or even Clinton... after all what else is out there now?

Until then, if you're an Edwards/Dean supporter, vote for one of them (or whoever you're supporting) in the primary. Vermont sent Kerry a message Tuesady, and I'll send one of my own in FL. TX is coming up 3/9 also, so cast one.

[mermaid]

10. I Already Early-Voted in TX For Edwards. n/t

n/t

[EXE619K]

8. Don't cry.

No need for that.

Vote for the nominee.

I know it'll be hard but, getting rid of Bush is in the interest of many people.

But, no one is forcing you to donate or actively work for their campaign.

I plan to vote for the nominee...even though I'm seriously disappointed.

But, after this year, I plan to work vigorously for Third Parties(of my choosing, of course) or other alternatives because, the Two-party system is destroying our country.

Grass Roots movements will survive.

And with people like you, it will thrive.

[mermaid]

11. I'm On Your Team

I'll scream and cry, and kick, and whine...but hold my nose and vote for Kerry in November, but THEN...I am getting involved in grass-roots efforts on third-parties.

Please stay in touch.

And thanks to all who've posted offering hugs and confort. I need it right now.

[Indiana Democrat]

15. You bash my candidate and tell me to shut-up?

Aint gonna happen...Deal with it.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Indiana Democrat]

19. Edited by me.

Misunderstood the post. Sorry. :)

[mermaid]

20. Why? Because I Won't Bend Down And Kiss Kerry's Ring?

Is THAT why I oughta "get out of YOUR house??"

Whether this Forum stays or goes is of no consequence. I have the original post out of Kerry's mouth.

I will simply post it elsewhere. I will not forget Kerry's betrayal of the transgender commuity. And I'll do my best to make sure NO ONE ELSE forgets it, either!!

[mermaid]

17. But It Was Just FINE When YOU GUYS Were Bashing MY Candidate, Wasn't It??

You guys cucified Dean!

[Indiana Democrat]

18. Dean crucified Dean.

You really need to come to terms with that simple fact.

[mermaid]

21. And YOU GUYS All Piled On Dean When HE Was The Front-Runner..Don't Deny It

n/t

[Indiana Democrat]

22. I never "Piled" on him.

I simply recognized the simple fact that he was a train wreck waiting to happen.

I'm just glad he wrecked in the primaries and ONLY took himself down instead of the rest of the country.

[neoteric lefty]

24. I loved Dean

but thats what happens when you are the front runner, everyone is trying to take shots at you and knock you down. The problem is that Dean had to worry about Kerry, Gep, Republicans, Moderates, and the media all taking shots. I don't know if any candidate could take the pounding he got. It is ufair and I am only now getting my support to JK but you have to realize that this is politics and politics is not pretty most of the time. It is a cold, hard fact. Someone has to win which means everyone else has to lose. It is an all-or-nothing game and many times we draw the short straw. It hurts and I feel your pain, but there will be a time when you will have to get up, dust yourself off and jump into the game again. I do hope you feel better. Take care.

[Mobius]

38. "all" does not include me

I find it offensive to be lumped into that catagory.

[Nederland]

125. What about the General

If Dean couldn't stand up to the love taps that his fellow Democrats were giving him how could we trust him to stand up to Rove&Co. come the general. There is a reason we have primaries, and that's to make sure that the candidate can take a beating.

[Rationality]

23. Ha!

Everyone of the other candidates - especially Lieberman and Gephardt - they couldn't stop digging at him. They knew he was a threat to Terry McAuffle and the DLC establishment, so they had to keep going at it.

Shiieet, he was attacked more often than Bush before the primaries!

[Bake]

25. Oh? And the alternative (i.e., Bush) is BETTER??

I sympathize, please believe me, I really do. But this ELECTION is about SO much more than one issue, even if it's one that is really, really important to you. Stop and think, is BUSH better than Kerry, even on your issue? HELL NO! He wants a fucking constitutional amendment!!!

Single-issue voters disturb me. On both sides. My brother is a prime example. He has two issues that are front and center in his mind: abortion and guns. (Big surprise, he's a wingnut.) Nothing else matters to him, and he will vote Repuke because of those two issues even when you put it right in front of his face that he is voting against his own economic interests and every other interest, EVERY TIME.

So again, I sympathize. But there are really only two alternatives. The President, come January 2005, is going to be Kerry, or it's going to be Bush. Which one do you want? It's really as simple as that.

Bake

[SerpentX]

28. Depends on the single issue.

Have you ever lost a job or gotten the shit kicked out of you just for being yourself? For some people that single issue is a matter of survival.

Mermaid said she'd vote for Kerry in November, despite what some people would say is a slap in the face. What more do you want?

[Bake]

30. Jeebus! I said I sympathize!

Everybody feels strongly about his/her "single issue." What else do YOU want?? I appreciate that she said she'd vote for Kerry!

It was more a comment on "single issue" voters. And yes, I have a couple of "single issues" myself. But I try to look at the bigger picture.

Bake

[SerpentX]

33. Take it easy

I wasn't flaming at you. You said "Single issue voters disturb you". I was trying to point out that sometimes they're not as irrational as you think.

[mermaid]

75. Thank You...You Understand!

enough said. you said it better than I could!

[FreeSpeechCrusader]

56. it was already stated that the author's vote will be for Kerry...

[SerpentX]

26. Yeah, he got that one wrong.

I've been a Kerry supporter for ages, for reasons political and personal, but I can't defend that position. It's frustrating and I don't blame you for being pissed.

But, unless Kerry picks Edwards or Dean for his running mate, I will not vote Kerry in '08 (assuming he beats Bush in November, of course) I'll go third-party.

Guess that means we've got four years to try to convince him to get it right.

Scream at me if you want, but I cannot stomach supporting a man such as John Kerry, who sent me and my people to the back of the civil rights bus.

No screaming. I have friends and loved ones in the transgendered community. This is my least favorite aspect of Kerry's platform and one area where I have to give Kucinich credit.

[Guava Jelly]

27. What would be worse is Bush

for 4 more years.
do you want to win??
Or is Kerry such a nightmare that you want dickhead reselected for 4 more??
Why do I try?

[FreeSpeechCrusader]

58. what the hell are you talking about????

the author said that they will vote for Kerry...so why crucify? Get a grip. There is a great amount of people that have frustrations about our nominee...so they need to be able to air them without being cursed at.

[wyldwolf]

29. Here...

:nopity:

[MadHound]

54. Geez dude, get a grip, show at least some sign of humanity

Mermaid stated that she would hold her nose and vote for the ham sandwich in Nov. Yet here you are, giving her grief because she is very disappointed that Kerry doesn't support her. Do you have any friggin' clue what it is like to be GLBT in modern America? Do you have any sympathy for your fellow human being? Hell, I'm a straight, white(mostly), male, and even I have sympathy and empathy for Mermaid. I have several friends who are GLBT and have learned what these fellow humans go through each and every day, the slurs, the discrimination, the threats. For many many people the issue of equal rights for the GLBT community is THE overriding issue of their lives, because in many cases it can be an issue of life or death.

If you have nothing constructive or helpful to say, then it would be wise if you simply remained silent. Making these kind of neener neener statements only adds to your fellow human beings' misery, and though I'm probably the last person on this board who should be saying this, it makes the Democratic, big tent, party look like an outhouse full of homophobic bigots.

[jansu]

109. If we are the Big Tent, how come some of us feel so unwelcome?

The Kerry supporters seem to be saying that if we don't fall into line, we are not welcome! To just shut up and go away...but not too far, remember to vote for our guy come November, then disappear! We won and you lost and so we will tell you what to say and think! When Bush is gone this November, I and many others will be leaving...you are beginning to sound just like the Repubs! Our Way or No Way, You are either for us or against us!

[MadHound]

117. Hey, that's why I qualified my answer

With the statement that ". . . I'm probably the last person on this board who should be saying this. . .". I've already decided that I'm going Green for the election. Simply can't stand anymore of the two party/same corporate master system of government. No, I was simply pointing out that the Dems like to think of themselves as the big tent party, but are acting more and more like the party is now an exclusive country club. You feel unwelcome, I feel unwelcome, and millions more like us feel unwelcome.

[gottaB]

31. you're misassigning blame

I find your claims questionable because frankly if you're basing your distinction on the hrc questionnaire, I don't see any indication that Edwards understands that the question of gender identity is not the same as "real or percieved sexual orientation." And really I don't believe this was Dean's strong point either.

In this primary, you had Braun and Kucinich who understood and stood up for transgendered people. And I'm quite sure Sharpton would fight for your civil rights too, although I'm not sure he understands the distinctions or the jargon hrc was putting to him.

So for you to have been a Dean supporter, and then to have voted for Edwards when you could have voted for Kucinich or Sharpton, and then to be complaining that Kerry sent you to the back of the bus--uh uh. You chose that seat yourself, or to be more accurate, you had an opportunity to use your vote to express your concerns, but you decided to cast an anti-Kerry vote rather than a pro-mermaid vote. Maybe you had other items on your agenda which prevented you from supporting Kucinich or Sharpton, but if that's true, then you have no business making out like civil rights for transgendered people is your number one political concern.

In my view, Kerry was simply being honest. Personally, I'd much rather have a nominee who could espouse Kucinich's position and garner enough support to win, but that's not happening. Barney Frank made a similar point in Tuesday's Post. When you throw a charge of cowardice or failed leadership at the Dems on gltb rights, you're not being realistic or fair. It's like you imagine that if a candidate stands up and says "I support Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgendered Rights!" the votes will follow. That's demonstrably not the case. Your own vote for Edwards makes that point.

Note, I'm not saying Edwards is "anti-gay" or "anti-transgendered." I'm just saying if you wanted to vote for a candidate who would proudly stand up for your civil rights, Edwards was not at the top of the list.

Well, I apologize if I'm coming off as hostile, because I don't want to hurt your feelings. I see that others have already responded with hostility. There's a reason for that, which I'm sure you can grasp: You insulted people who voted for Kerry.

I got behind Kerry because he was the best candidate for president. I did not vote for him in order to deny you your civil rights. On the contrary, it is my firm conviction that in the course of his presidency, John Kerry will do more to protect and extend civil rights for all Americans than either Dean or Edwards would have, had they been given that responsibility. I can respect the fact that you disagree with my view, but I would ask the same level of respect from you.

So while I'm not going to scream at you, if you want to be arguing how I and the Party betrayed you by electing John Kerry, I most certainly will not shut up about it.

[mermaid]

76. You Have A Valid Point

I decided to vote for the candidate whose position most closely emulated my own THAT HAD A CHANCE TO WIN!!

I wanted to support Kucinich. but I couldn't, because he had no chance. I wish it were different.

[Iverson]

32. hug and advice

one unacceptably far-left hug: :hug:
one unacceptably far-left cup of coffee to start the day: :donut:

And I suggest that you take careful note of who jumped on you when you asked for a little sympathy, and who did not.

[mermaid]

77. Indeed I Do

I take VERY careful note of it.

and it's the Kerry supporters who jumped me. the Kucinich supporters have all been universally sympathetic.

Damn I wish Dennis had a chance!!

[maxanne]

34. sorry mermaid

Sympathy and empathy seem to be in short supply here, these days.

There is no heart and compassion. There is "you're either with us or against us." There is even more abuse for you if you were a Dean supporter.

So - please don't expect kindness or understanding. Expect to be torn to shreds, by people who will make ugly accusations, ask you to sign loyalty oaths, and dun you for money for THE candidate. They will tell you that you aren't welcome here and your vote doesn't matter.

Then they will throw up their hands in collective despair, and ask what is wrong with those who aren't ready to march in lockstep.

We aren't treating each other very well here.

[mermaid]

78. It's okay

I have already said I'll vote for the ham sandwich.

And I will.

Dun me for money all yu want...NONE is coming from me to support a man who refuses to support ME.

Period.

Throw up your hands in despair if you want.

Truth is...MY VOTE DON'T COUNT...because I live in Texas, which is going Bush, no matter HOW I vote. So I don't even HAVE to vote for the ham snadwich. I'm going to...only because my hatred of Bush is THAT LARGE!

[beachbum]

128. Hey...

Mermaid! your one vote for Kerry in the general election is atleast good for stamping out one vote for bushwack in Texas! :7

[Frederic Bastiat]

35. Cry and get over it

Kerry won. Suck it up and move on.

[Cheswick2.0]

37. yeah, that'll work

AH

[AntiCoup2K4]

40. How compassionate of you

really, why don't you send her some teacups while you're at it.

Some of Kerry's supporters make me :puke: even more than his (in)actions since the Coup of 12/12/00.

Remember this when you are the ones crying the morning of November 3.

[Frederic Bastiat]

42. First, I was a Clark supporter

Second, I will not be crying on Nov. 3rd cause Kerry has my vote and everybody I know - friends and family, I'll be flying from my home in Montreal to cast my vote in MN.

I will do my part, how about you?

[maxanne]

44. goodonya

you might be more successful in winning people over if you stopped browbeating them.

[maxanne]

41. thanks for

proving my point.

[Cheswick2.0]

36. Mermaid , there are a lot of "down ticket" candidates to work for

You can get good liberal candidates in office who will be our next generation of leaders. There is more than one way to supporting change in the democratic party.

[Monte Carlo]

39. With all respect Kerry didn't send you to the back of the civil rights bus

I realize that his positions on gay marriages/civil unions are ambiguous and non-committal. He supports this, but doesn't want to call it marriage.

I submit to you that there are larger social forces at work here during this election that make gay marriage a vulnerability for the Democrats. Kerry as a mere candidate is in no position to demand such a big change all at once. Kerry is from MA, after all, has had a worldly education and upbringing, and has consistently stood with liberal causes in the Senate. I highly suspect that Kerry is taking a compromised position now so that he can take a much more solid stand if and when he becomes President. John F. Kennedy was lukewarm at best on the issue of civil rights in the '60 election, but once he got into office, he became of of the best friends the blacks in this country ever had.

[diamondsoul]

AHHHHGH! Dude,

Mermaid isn't talking about sexual orientation here!!

Disregard the scream please...Sorry, this is a topic that just hits me close to the bone and I'm stumped as to why really. Mermaid is talking about people who are born with the sexual organs of BOTH genders. They are neither male nor female they are both in one body.

If you haven't read up on or investigated this phenomenon, I would urge you to do so. The things that have been done to people like Mermaid in the name of "fixing" them are absolutely horrifying and the fact that so few people truly know about their existance is even more horrifying to me.

[tishaLA]

94. Seems to me

you're talking about hermaphrotes, not transgendered. It's a wholly different thing.

[diamondsoul]

60. deleted dupe, sorry. n/t

[Dhalgren]

43. Hey, Mermaid, you ain't alone here.

Their are alot of us who can't support Kerry. I was never a Dean supporter nor did I support Edwards, but I can't support Kerry for many reasons. I will vote for him in November (unless he goes any farther right), but I can't "support" him. Most of these particular Kerry folks who are so crass are narrow minded and short-sighted - try and ignore them. There are alot of Kerry supporters out there who are freindly and understanding. They have compassion and realize that Kerry isn't 100% right, 100% of the time. These Kerry supporters will talk to you like you are human and will debate and discuss issues without resorting to facist tactics. Search out these Kerry supporters and talk to them and maybe forcing yourself to vote for the lesser of two evils won't be so hard. As for those idiots who only have slash and burn as their mode of conduct - fuck 'em.

[FreeSpeechCrusader]

61. Amen.....

[KaraokeKarlton]

45. Mermaid, here's my advice to you...

Get the hell out of Texas and come to Vermont. Your rights matter here and will most certainly be protected. Some of the responses to you I'm reading on this thread disgusts me. If it doesn't affect them, they basically don't give a flying fuck. They are expecting you to just accept and tolerate being treated like a second class citizen in order to beat Bush. There is one place in this country where you can go and not feel like a second class citizen, and that is here in Vermont. God only knows how long it's going to take for the rest of the country to catch up with Vermont on tolerance and acceptance of all Americans.

You know, there was a time when I felt really uncomfortable about laws like Civil Unions and the addressing of GLBT rights. But when we had the Civil Unions battle here in Vermont I saw how ugly bigotry and hatred is coming from the religious right. It was utterly disgusting and it sent many straight Vermonters a clear message that treating GLBT people the way we expect to be treated is far less uncomfortable than witnessing hatred spewed towards this same group of Americans. Of course there are still some who are assholes over these issues, but for the most part, people are very accepting and understanding. And our government and laws are implemented in a way that doesn't ignore people in your position.

Now, to all those people who are bitching about mermaid demanding equality...you should be ASHAMED of yourselves! How dare you imply that this DU member is "whining" for demanding equality and political representation! Really, how dare you? Until you've walked a mile in the footsteps of someone whose rights are being denied, you have NO RIGHT to judge them...NO RIGHT AT ALL! And furthermore, stop trying to make mermaid feel guilty and shameful for wanting equality! If anyone should feel guilty it's those who think electing John Kerry is more important than civil rights and equality! Screw that! Mermaid's rights are more important than any politician, politcal party or election, period!

[Iverson]

46. You may have hit upon a new political slogan.

"Whining for equality!"

[KaraokeKarlton]

48. I don't know, but these reactions to mermaid are pissing me off

What a bunch of selfish condascending assholes. There, I said it. I'm sure there are plenty who are thinking it but don't dare say it. I'll say it for those who are afraid to.

[Indiana Democrat]

65. And there are MANY more who are thinking the OPPOSITE...

...and don't say anything.

Or are you one of these people who don't believe polls unless they're in YOUR favor?

[Iverson]

67. wtf!?!?

What does that comment about polls have to do with anything!?

If you're so confident that you're in the majority, then you can spare the outrage over someone on a discussion board asking for some sympathy.

[Indiana Democrat]

68. No outrage...Just REALITY!

Ultra conservative repukes can be as "Outraged" as they want over the lack of organized religion in public schools...That doesn't mean they'll EVER be able to get it widely accepted as the norm. Even though they'll line-up behind one-another SCREAMING IN OUTRAGE how their view is the correct one for America.

THAT'S "WTF".

[Iverson]

70. indeed, question

OK, so the comment about polls didn't have anything to do with anything.

And when you put objections in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS, how does a casual reader interpret the umbrage expressed therein as REALITY (sic) and not OUTRAGE? Does IT depend upon THE identity OF the writer?

[KaraokeKarlton]

82. Fuck the polls and people's discomfort!

This is about equal civil and human rights for all Americans and those rights trump any misgivings or discomfort anyone has about what other people do in their freaking bedroom. Period. Fighting for equality for ALL Americans is simply NOT a debatable issue. There is NO middle ground on this. You are either in full support of equal rights or you aren't, and if you aren't you are dead WRONG, no ifs, ands or buts.

[Indiana Democrat]

83. Yeah...FUCK THE POLLS!

Let's become as irrelevant as the Green Party!!

WHO'S WITH ME?? FUCK REALITY!!!

[KaraokeKarlton]

85. You have an awful lot to learn

I've watched the most heated battle for the rights of the GLBT community play out in my own backyard. Over 70% of the people of Vermont felt the same way you say the polls do when Dean first signed Civil Unions into law. But then all the crackpots from the religious right came here and showed the true depth of their hatred, bigotry and disgusting behavior. That's all it took to change people's minds. The country is ready for this battle, more than ready. It's people like you who need to grow some nads and let the battle happen so that we can deal with this once and for all. As long as people fight letting the debate occur, we'll be stuck right where we are.

[Indiana Democrat]

87. Like I said...

...push for it to be in the platform.

Then don't be surprised when you're swatted-down.

[He loved Big Brother]

119. I don't believe in polls even if they are 99% in my favor.

Polls are nothing but shit. Period.

By the way, mermaid, I cried while taking my Dean sign down from my window that's been there since last May. I cried listening to Edwards speech when he dropped out. I am going to continue to be very very sad until eletion day, and after I cast my vote for Kerry, I will probably cry a little more because I gave my vote to somebody who doesn't represent me and that makes me feel like absolute shit.

[Dhalgren]

47. Right on, K.K.!

.

[KaraokeKarlton]

49. Glad you enjoyed it

At least there are some of us striaght people who understand how important equal rights are. I guess it's easy for some to ignore the issue if it doesn't affect them. I'd like to think I'm a bit better of a human being than that, at least I try to be.

[Dhalgren]

51. Many people try to couch equal rights as an

issue only for those who are denied the equality. That cannot be more wrong. Equal rights is THE fundamental issue for all Americans - of all stripes. If anyone is descriminated against, I am descriminated against.

[KaraokeKarlton]

52. Exactly

Unfortunately, there seems to be some on here who don't care about equal rights since they already have them. Personally, I think the country is ready for this particular GLBT rights battle. Even though there are a lot of people who are uncomfortable with the issue, once the religious right starts trying to incite hatred and digotry among Americans, people realize that they must support equality once and for all. Most politicians are afraid of their own personal hang ups and have no faith in the people to stand up for what's right. The American people are ready...but the politicians are cowards for the most part.

[diamondsoul]

63. Hi, KK. Just wanted to let you know

you may be misunderstanding what Mermaid is referring to when they use the term "transgendered". I don't think this is about orientation or gender reassignment. If I'm not mistaken, Mermaid is one of a large number of people born with the organs of both genders, meaning they are neither male nor female. I have yet to see any laws passed anywhere recognzing these people as who and what they are and allowing them to live openly as transgendered individuals. No insult meant to Vermont, you or Governor Dean, and I may be mistaken about that last statement, you could well be right about Vermont being a better place for Mermaid to live in peace. I just wanted to toss in some clarification in case you were misunderstanding Mermaid's position.

[KaraokeKarlton]

84. You're describing a hermaphrodite, not a transgendered person

n/t

[mermaid]

79. Bingo!

Couldn't have said it better myself!

This is what I'm REALLY pissed at Kerry for...for being a coward, and not trusting the American people to stand up for what is right!! And for allowing our opponents..the Repukes...to decide what is and what is not possible!

[DuctapeFatwa]

55. Big Round of Applause!

Damn good post! :)

[Iverson]

62. what was the expression from Animal Farm?

... but some are more equal than others.

[Indiana Democrat]

64. Fine...I'm "Ashamed"!

Now...Let's all work to get an ammendment in the Democratic Plank that states "Transgendered People's have the right to Marry" (Or whatever else he or she wants).

One of two things WILL happen...

1) It will get defeated by DEMOCRATS.

2) It will pass and we'll lose all 50 states in 2004 AND the pukes will gain AT LEAST a 60 seat majority in the Senate.


I'm a Realist. And "Reality" has NOTHING to do with hurting other's feelings...It has EVERYTHING to do with REALITY!!

[KaraokeKarlton]

88. If that's really true then Democrats are no better than Republicans

and Democrats have no right to lay claim to being the party that represents minorities. You can't have it both ways.

[Indiana Democrat]

90. It's "Really True".

Deal with it.

And besides, those with differing sexual preferences from the norm are not "Minorities". They're just different people.

[KaraokeKarlton]

92. So homosexuals aren't a minority now?

Do you honestly believe that over 50% of Americans are gay? Know what, people like you are part of the problem, not the solution. The attitudes you exude is the kind of thing that prevents this country from being as great as it could be. Shame on you.

[Indiana Democrat]

98. No, homosexuals are not minorities.

And you can tell me I'm part of the problem all you want. But facts are facts...Deal with it.

[He loved Big Brother]

120. Indiana Democrat, are you Indiana Green?

But with a changed name?

[Indiana Democrat]

131. Of course not!

And to be quite honest, I take offense at the notion. (Not at you for asking, just the notion).

That.....person.....is NOT someone I like being confused with.

[He loved Big Brother]

135. I'm sure they like it even less so

And on your very best day, consider yourself lucky to be confused with him/her.

[Indiana Democrat]

147. My best day?

Yeah...I guess that would be true if I hated everything our party and our nation's constitution stands-for.

Speak for yourself.

[Name removed]

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[jansu]

111. I didn't speak up, because it wasn't me!

Never forget the words of Pastor Martin Niemoeller in Nazi Germany:

"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." Pastor Martin Niemoeller, living in Nazi Germany, who spent a year in a Concentration camp, for his speaking out, at last.

The way to stop an incipient police state is by defending its first
victims. Remember: Its next victim could well be you.

[KaraokeKarlton]

121. Looks like someone else "gets it"

You're one smart cookie. :D

[Lorien]

140. Very well said, KK

:thumbsup:. It seems many around here love to use the favorite response (though sometimes phrased differently) of the opposition; "get over it"! :eyes:

[Blue_Roses]

50. I cried alot too

when I lived in Texas for 10 years, but then I had Bush for a governor;)

[mermaid]

80. I'm Still Crying

Because Prick Perry is no better than Bush as Gubnor.

And I was here when Bush was Gubnor, too.

[Blue_Roses]

113. I just left a few months ago

so I had "good hair" myself. Texas sucks

[GreenPartyVoter]

57. Mermaid, I hear you on all of that *hugs*

Hang in there. We _will_ fix the system one day.

[kodi]

59. i'm not about to scream at you, but where's your backbone?

you activily participated in american politics, knowing full well the rules of the game, you anted up and played the cards you were dealt and now bitch about the game itself because you played a losing hand?

how mature is that?

you said:

"Be a gracious winner, take your prize, and shut up about it, okay? Please?

which i find completely goofy.

so how about this in response to you?

Be a gracious loser, and shut up about it, okay? Please?

sound any more mature than what you said?

certainly not.

BTW: i voted for edwards two days ago, but i am not about to whine like a baby because who i wanted to represent the democratic party will not be running for president.

i knew the rules before my cards were dealt to me. i played my hand, and lost. and its time to move on.

[maxanne]

66. so glad you didn't scream

accusations of whining are so much nicer.

[kodi]

73. right. only losers bitch about the refs, learn from mistakes and reload

for four years democrats complained about the 2000 election chicanery in Florida. what good is it if nothing is done to stop it happening again?

whining, with out a plan for directed action to alter the process that brings it about is useless verbal dross

what good is complaining about how stacked the cards are against us if we don't actually learn from our experience and with increased wisdom attempt to do something about it?

think posting on DU is the only answer? think voting 3rd party will do anything at all towards change?

this is a huge fucking country, and changing it is worse than turning an aircraft carrier. its not going to happen overnight or even in a decade's time.

explain the dynamics of exactly how voting a third party will bring about the substantive changes in America the original poster bemoaned is missing from the mission of the democratic party.

i am fairly reasonable, just show me how its done, draw the map of the journey towards Utopia that is to be taken by the actions contemplated by the original poster.

[maxanne]

115. one thing

that all you tough love advocates don't seem to consider is this - a number of folks here are young. This may be their first presidential campaign - the first heartbreaking loss. Beating them up for it isn't going to encourage their continued participation in the electoral process.

There's a lot of time between now and November, for people to get their feelings under control, and get back on track. People vent about their feelings here. Are you offering them support? Nope. Instead, they're being told that their feelings aren't valid - get over it.

I wish someone could explain to me how it is that verbal abuse is going to accomplish party unity.

I had lunch with a state candidate today. That's where my energy is going - into changing the face of the NH state legislature - which has been under Republican control since the Civil War.

We can change the world, if we work hard and forge alliances. Telling folks that their feelings don't count, that they aren't welcome, and they don't matter isn't the best strategy for forging the aforementioned alliances.

[Dying Eagle]

69. OMG

If dean had won, i wouldn't have cried about it. please?

[diamondsoul]

71. Did you actually READ

the reason Mermaid is crying about it? I did and Mermaid has every reason in the world to cry. People like Mermaid are invisible in this country and nobody is doing a damned thing about it. People like Mermaid are butchered as babies, before they can even object to the butchering! People like Mermaid have been hidden from the people for decades out of sheer ignorance and callousness. People like Mermaid are effing humiliated and arrested for being different! It's sickening and anyone who isn't capable of getting that should be told to shut up!

[Dookus]

93. Diamondsoul

You really need to learn the difference between transgendered and intersexed. They are very different.

[diamondsoul]

137. I know the difference, thanks.

I also know a good number of "intersexed" people who call themselves "transgendered" meaning a "cross" between both genders.

I'm just ignorant enough and sensitive enough to let them self-identify instead of passing my own damned label onto them. So effin' sue me.

[Dookus]

139. No, you don't seem to know the difference

transgendered people are NOT butchered at birth.

Intersexed people often are, though. They are NOT interchangeable, and the terminology is quite clear.

And you really know a lot of intersexed people? That's certainly unusual, given the rarity of the condition.

And knock off the attitude - it doesn't go well with ignorance.

[diamondsoul]

143. ...

attitude....looking in the mirror much lately?

[Dookus]

144. attitude is more acceptable

when one knows what the hell one is talking about.

Transgendered people are not the same as intersexed people. Both are medical terms with very separate meanings. If you're going to lecture people on the issue, it would behoove you to learn the difference.

[sangh0]

72. That was very ungracious of you

take your prize, and shut up about it, okay? Please?

[John_H]

74. "In my opinion, only Joe Lieberman could have been worse."

A Kerry bashing post with a demand for compassion from Kerry supporters. Lol! To that I provide a compasssionate, Yeahhhgrhhhhhrhhhh!!!

[mitchum]

112. Couldn't have said it any better...

about the original belligerent plea

[bigtree]

81. I won't shut up. I'm proud of my choice. So is Edwards. He didn't cry

I won't be cowed into the meme that Kerry is some kind of evil that we should wail and moan endlessly about. I won't be swayed by hysterics or apathetic hand-wringing.

And by implication you put those of us who believe in Kerry down on the floor and attempt to stomp us with your zealous heel. And you cry like you're some victim. Did your man Edwards lie when he praised Kerry up and down? Did that make you cry? Pffft!

Kerry or Bush. Stand up and do the right thing.

[cosmokramer]

86. Get a spine.

Beating Bush is more important than whining.

We have a nominee, and though he is not my first choice, he is a GOOD CHOICE.

My dog is better than Bush.

[mzmolly]

91. Sorry you are hurting mermaid.

:hug:

I kind of feel like I got the door prize too, but I am going to revist Kerry, and look at him with a new objectivity. He was my second choice at one time, but then I became involved in bitter campaign disputes and I dont know if I can honeslty call myself *objective* any more?

I am hoping to like what I find when I clear the stench from my own head and start anew. Afterall, Ted Kennedy believes in him ??

[lurk_no_more]

95. Not everyone gets what they want!

If you can't be with the one you love....Love the one your with!



And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[GOPBasher]

97. How come you liked Edwards so much?

I'm not being snotty; I'm really just curious. It seemed to me that Edwards was to the right of Kerry on those issues. I could be wrong. What was it about Edwards that you liked? :-)

[TrueAmerican]

103. Excellent Post

Edwards is to the right of everyone except for Joe Lieberman.

[seaglass]

104. Read posts 31 and 76 - it's about bashing Kerry.

The candidates that supported mermaid's rights were not the ones mermaid supported. Now all of a sudden it's a catastrophe.

[TrueAmerican]

101. For crying out loud

I am a Clark supporter. But now is not the time to get emotional. Emotions do not win elections. Get with the program and support your party's nominee or it's 4 more years of the real enemy George Bush.


Let's start acting like grown adults and not little children who got their candy stolen. There is more at stake in this election than your feelings.

[Uzybone]

110. Take your prize and shut up

only if you agree to shut up about your internet tears.

[northzax]

116. amazing

you have already decided that a Kerry Administration will cause you to vote for a 34rd party in 4 years. You have no idea what will happen, how he will do as President, but you have decided already. interestingly openmined of you.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arewethereyet]

124. whats funny is that she praises Dean whose view on same sex was the same

as Kerry.

Spare me. Go back to watching Lifetime movies Mermaid. Politics is not for the faint of heart.

[He loved Big Brother]

126. nor is politics

for lockstep groupthinking sheeple.

She's passionate about her beliefs and something hapened that moved her.

Listening to some people on this thread, I'm starting to think supporters of Kerry have this sense of entitlement to everyody's votes, and thus feel they can be utter assholes. Great way to help your guy.

[arewethereyet]

134. my guys is out, no help for him anymore. no problem

all but one are going to lose, its the nature of the beast.

[MercutioATC]

146. Dean's stance was different than Kerry's

Kerry doesn't believe in gay marriage.

Dean believes that all couples deserve the same legal protections and will support civil unions, gay marriage, or whatever method states choose to insure those protections.

I'd say those positions were different.

[bitchkitty]

127. ((((((((((Mermaid))))))))))))))

Don't worry - it's a change that is coming, and nothing can stop it. They will try, but justice will prevail.

[zulchzulu]

129. Kerry sent you to the back of the civil rights bus? Surely, you jest!

I'm guessing you're either completely misinformed of Kerry's record (100% rating from the Human Rights Campaign since 1995) or his civil rights record (100% rating from the NAACP) or you just think it's cool to diss Kerry.

Go here and stop your crying:
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/glbt/

You should be happy.

[Democat]

132. How about a reply from the original poster to these stats?

"I'm guessing you're either completely misinformed of Kerry's record (100% rating from the Human Rights Campaign since 1995) or his civil rights record (100% rating from the NAACP) or you just think it's cool to diss Kerry."

[zulchzulu]

136. Whuh?

I'm not sure what you mean...

[Ysabel]

130. hugs for everybody...

...{{{everyone}}}...

please try to love eachother...

[AmyStrange]

133. ((((HUGz)))) Mermaid...

"deal with it" is such a stupid and condenscending thing to say.

When Bush was court selected to be President in 2000, why didn't everyone who is here in the DU then and now, just "deal with it" and "get over it" and move on? We cried then too and then we GOT MAD and rose up and are trying to change things.

Any Dem who tells any of us to "deal with it", isn't really a Dem, but a closet repub who secretly loves doing to the disenfranchised here what Bush has been doing to them all along. They don't have the gonads to go to Free Repub and hollar at them. No they'd rather do the cowardly thing and berate thier own friends here on the DU.

The more people you treat here (or anywhere) in a mean and disgusting manner, the better your chances are that YOU will have to "deal with it" and "get over it" in November if Kerry loses. It will be YOUR fault, not ours. You may try to blame us, but we will gleefully be happy to turn the tables and tell you to "deal with it" and "get over it" right back.

Smarten up and increase your chances of Kerry winning in Nov, rather than doing stupid things to decrease your chances,


Dave (AmyStrange.com) Ayotte
Please, regularly check the One Missing Person (is one person too many) searchable website for the latest (and archived) missing person news stories:

http://NEWS.OneMissingPerson.org/




Serious Serial Killer discussion:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SK-Cafe/

[Rowsdower]

141. Here's a virtual screw for you

Oh hell, it always makes me feel better if I've been down!

[RetroLounge]

142. Hey Mermaid, hang in there and hugs your way.

and to the insensitive a**holes who are still bashing you, obviously they cannot read.

You said you will vote for Kerry, but that's not enough for them. They want blood and submission too. Toe the line. Fall In. Spout the party line. Join the cattle drive. The bandwagon starts here. Be happy about it, so that way they can be too. They actually ENJOY kicking opponents when they are down. Watch them attack me next. Pack mentality. Animal Farm. Mob rules.

IMHO it's mostly an ego problem and low self-esteem. Couple that with fear that Kerry will get his ass kicked by bush*.

Get over it.
You're a loser.
Quit whining.
Shut up.
Deal with it.
Grow up.

These sound awful familiar, don't they? So very 2000 election.

Yeah, I'll vote for him too, but I'll hold my nose and I don't have to be happy about.

So Hugs, and love, your way. and know you are not alone.

RL

[REP]

145. I'm Neither Hurt nor Betrayed

My guy won one state, and only after he dropped out. Oh well. I wish it could have been different, but we're back where we were before the Dean thing, only this time Kerry is a lot closer to being the nominee. I don't hate him, and I'm getting to like him better every day.

A lot of people are upset because of his vote on the IWR. I was a bit surprised to see that this was not the item being lamented in this thread.

Vote reluctantly, vote in tears, vote with a bag on your head - just VOTE. It's important.