If Kerry really wants to win over Dean supporters

[mandyky]

here are a few suggestions -

Talk to Joe Trippi and Howard Dean on how to use MeetUp and online grassroots organizing. Also consider "decentralizing" the campaign a bit.

Kerry needs to start campaigning with other Dem candidates, esp. ones who have dropped out. Make the rallies "youth friendly".

Some people are diehards (I may be one), but if Kerry can duplicate the campaign style Trippi and Dean used, it would be a big bonus.

[molly]

1. If Kerry duplicated Trippi and Dean's style - he

wouldn't be the front-runner.

[mandyky]

4. Comments like these are NOT helpful

obviously some Kerry suporters do not want any help from Deaniacs. Hopefully Kerry is smarter than some of his supporters.

[meegbear]

8. Why does Kerry have to "kiss the ring"?

If Dean won, you'd expect Kerry people to fall in line and not make demands.

ABB or be damned.

[mandyky]

13. No ring kissing was requested

The point is to borrow some campaign ideas that Dean supporters found appealing. I wasn't making demands, I was making suggestions and I WAS TRYING to come around to Kerry. It feels like my support is not really wanted by some supporters. Hopefully Kerry is not like that.

[Skidmore]

55. I agree wholeheartedly...

ALL of the candidates have strengths and ideas that could be tapped to round out this effort. I'd like to see a "summit", so to speak, of the Dem candidates at the end of the primary season and some effort on their parts to demonstrate that there is a cohesiveness to this party. Everyone brings something to the table and sees it through. A unified party was not in the Rovian scheme of things. Unity of purpose and the willingness to include issues and talents from the full range of this party can be our capital.

[HFishbine]

47. Why bother?

Some people are obviously convinced that a strategy that's proven successful at winning 50% of 18% of the electorate is going to fuel the funding of Kerry's campaign and, desptite the mathematical imrobabilities, a win in November.

There will be no national debate, don't look for it. There will be no inspiring assertion of Democratic values, don't look for it. What you are seeing here is a reflection of the strongest rallying cry Kerry fans have to offer: he's not Bush. Period. End of story. Fall in or fall out.

[BuelahWitch]

30. Of course he would have

He had one of his buddies do the Osama ads and then Dickie boy fell on his sword for him.

And I agree with the original poster, you're NOT winning friends and influencing people by the above remark.

[CTLawGuy]

43. thanks for that comment

I wonder what Mr. Nader's campaign will be like...

[Kahuna]

54. HEL-LOOO!

BTW, Congrats Molly. :toast: You stuck by your candidate through thick and thin. Mostly thin. You and his very loyal supporters are to be commended.

:grouphug:


P.S. This is the way it's done. The losers congratulate the winners. It's called being gracious.

[MaineDem]

2. Kerry Meet-Ups have been going strong

What do you mean by "youth-friendly"? I'm seriously interested in your ideas.

Thanks.

[mandyky]

5. Contact the Dean groups on campuses

for one thing. Visit all the Dean sites, ie Seniors for Dean, Oregon for Dean, etc. Actually reach out to people, instead of expecting them to fall in line.

[MaineDem]

9. That's already being done

The campaign is reaching out to ALL Americans now.

I was especially interested in what you meant by the youth-friendly issue. (Contacting Seniors wouldn't do that.) We have a college in our area and we're always interested in getting the students involved. From what I've seen at Kerry events, there are always many many young people in attendance. I don't know how to target them specifically. Vanessa Kerry and Chris Heinz have been fantastic at meeting with students and talking with them in language they understand and about issues that are important to them.

I know this will be taken wrong but I have a part of my brain that says the supporters of the failed candidates have to be treated the same and it's time for them to decide if they're going to support the Democratic candidate or not. Yes, outreach has to happen but this is all par for the course in a primary.

I think you'll see some contact with former candidates and their supporters. Once the candidates start campaigning for the nominee it may be a sign to their supporters as well.

Your points are well taken.

[MercutioATC]

3. Or maybe explain his IWR, NCLB and Patriot Act votes...

He gets my vote in November if he's the nominee, but he doesn't get my support unless he explains these votes in a way that I don't still think he's just another vote-grabbing political insider.

[truthspeaker]

6. Yep. Acknowledge that Iraq invasion was a mistake,

had nothing to do with fighting terrorism and a lot to do with stealing oil and building a military empire.

Kerry will absolutely get my vote in November, but that doesn't mean he'll get a blank check. If there are still US troops in Iraq at the end of 2005 he'll think LBJ had it easy.

[MercutioATC]

12. We agree, truthspeaker. I'm willing to do what it takes to get Bush out,

but I want some answers and some action and I'm going to insist on both.

[zulchzulu]

36. Kerry and Dean agree on many points on Patriot Act/IWR/NCLB

Here's the breakdown:

Dean's opinion on the Patriot Act is essentailly the same as Kerry's. He even said that he understood how the vote for the Patriot Act was political at the time of the vote and it was Ashcroft who had exploited how the Act was executed. Also consider that major elements of the Patriot Act sunset (go away) on January 1, 2005. Dean said this about the Patriot Act:

"We must not undermine freedom in the name of freedom. I am troubled by elements of the Patriot Act that curtail our liberties, including provisions that grant the government broad investigative and surveillance powers and strip federal courts of traditional authority to curb executive branch abuses of power. Reconsideration of certain provisions is therefore warranted."

On NCLB, Dean's opinion is very similar to Kerry's:

"No Child Left Behind sought to address racial and socioeconomic disparities in education and to improve accountability, but the law is unduly burdensome and deprives states of needed flexibility. I will rework unrealistic accountability standards so they do not punish schools that are doing well and will work to reduce the reliance on testing."

Kerry is for reworking NCLB and allow for more funding as well, unlike what Bush did with underfunding the bill.
(http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/100days/education.html)

On the IWR, Dean was for the Biden-Lugar amendment to the bill, which was for the UN to continue inspections and to use war as a last resort and with a multinational UN force. This is identical to Kerry's view.
(http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2003_0902d.html)

http://www.votebyissue.org/primary/candidate.asp?cID=21

[MercutioATC]

53. No, no and no.

Dean's opinion on the Patriot act is that, while it does include some funding clauses that bear merit, it violates civil liberties. Since it's already in place, Dean advocates keeping what makes sense and getting rid of the rest, but he's been clear that he would not have voted for it.

Dean's also said that, the underfunding issue aside, NCLB makes no sense because it penalized the very districts that need help the most. NCLB cuts funding to schools that don't meet certain standards. Dean agrees that certain standards should be met (or at least be a goal) but, rightly, sees no sense in cutting funding to the schools who need it the most. I've not seen a similar statement from Kerry.

I'd encourage you to read Biden-Lugar and the IWR. Only the IWR had language that gave Congressional approval for Bush to wage war "at his discresion". As much as Kerry and Edwards people try to make them the same, they're two different pieces of ligislation. Kerry CHOSE not to support Biden-Lugar and vote in favor of the IWR.

[zulchzulu]

62. Well...

Dean said he probably would have voted for the Patriot Act. He said he probably would have voted for NCLB. At the time the vote was happening in the IWR, Dean was in agreement with the Biden-Lugar amendment, which can be reasoned as that he would have voted for it if he was in a position to vote.

Most features of the Patriot Act will sunset on January 5, 2005. So it's a moot point. While I'm not necessarily a big fan of NCLB, under a Kerry administration, it would be reworked and funded better than it is now. As for the IWR, Kerry was for the UN to continue inspections and use force as a last resort under UN multinational forces. The problem now is what do we do now that we have to clean up Bush's mess. Kerry is for realigning with allies that Bush alienated and have the UN, NATO and other multinational forces go in and take the target of American troops' backs.

My point is that you would have a lot more in common with Kerry's views based on these points you mentioned.

Let's deal with now, not like it's last January.

Face it, Dean is not the nominee. You need to understand that and deal with it. Kerry is not God or perfect by any means. But he is the nominee and he will beat Bush.

[MercutioATC]

63. I understand that "Dean is not the nominee". That doesn't mean I like

Kerry's positions, though.

The nominee gets my vote. If he wants mote than that, he has to show me how he's not another business-as-usual, save-my-political-ass politician. Kerry's failed miserably at this for me.

[mandyky]

7. I started this post as a way to reach out

a way for me to try to come around to actually SUPPORTING kerry, instead of JUST voting for him. It would be nice if Kerry supporters would take the chip off their shoulders. Obviously as much as I LOVE Dean, many Kerry supporters hate him. But do you really need to make it so obvious in each post you make? Do you all WANT Dean supporters to stay home, or (God forbid) vote for Nader or some other 3rd party in Nov.? If not, a little humilty won't kill you, will it?

[mdmc]

10. Dean reached out to new voters

Kerry will win the Gore votes, plus half of the Nader votes from 2000. This could be a winning statedgy.

[Kahuna]

57. In case you missed it, Kerry got the votes of more new voters..

than Dean did. That's what helped him to win. You're believing your own campaign hype. The facts prove your hype to be wrong.

[BeyondGeography]

17. Dean lost, and supporters like you are insisting on humility

from everyone except Dean and supporters like you.

It's absurd.

[Cheswick2.0]

11. to me it not at all the campaign style

to me it is the conviction and the authenticity. To me is is the votes in the senate that I object to. NCLB, IWR and the Patriot Act. Are these things going to change with a President Kerry? This is what he has to address with me.
Will he get rid of the pre-emptive war in Iraq or is he going to send yet more troops? Will he discard the Patriot Act? Will he get rid of NCLB?

[Frederic Bastiat]

14. What other choices do Dean followers have save Kerry?

Bush or Nader????

[mandyky]

15. That's not the point

unless you want us to feel powerless like we have no choice. I already feel that way - I can either stay home or vote Kerry. My point is if Kerry wants REAL support from other candidates' supporters, it would be nice if the campaign reached out.

Here are some things Kerry needs supporters to do -

write letters to editors in local papers
call in to talk radio shows
know where Kerry stands on the issues and be able to defend him
write letters to undecided voters as Nov gets nearer

Kerry will not win unless he has grassrrots supporters. Kerry will not win unless support for him makes news. But to do that people need outreach and tools. TV ads and such are not gonna win Kerry the WH.

[molly]

22. We had an entire "lovefest" about this yesterday

in case you missed it.......do you want answers or aggravation?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=428703&mesg_id=428703&page=

[zulchzulu]

42. Kerry does have grassroots support, outreach tools, etc.

One of the main reasons why Kerry did so well was the grassroots support, having people who not only do online communication but also real-life, on-the-ground support.

All your points are well taken and appreciated, but the Dean campaign is/was not the only campaign with online tools as well as brick-and-mortar tools as well. Many write letters to the editor, cal in radio shows and are educated on all the issues.

Here's an example of a Kerry grassroots site:
http://www.writersact.com/kerry

[goobergunch]

18. There's always Walt Brown....

:P ;)

[mandyky]

20. Isn't he a Libertarian?

I find Libertarians as distasteful as GOPs. Worse on some issues like social security and deregulation of businesses.

[goobergunch]

65. Socialist

You're thinking of Harry Browne.

[Cheswick2.0]

21. staying home

[Frederic Bastiat]

26. Wow, are you gonna take your ball too?

:eyes:

[HFishbine]

51. Since you asked

My plan, unless and until Kerry changes my mind, is to leave the vote for president blank. I'll campaign hardily and vote for progressive house and senate candidates. That's the choice Kerry has left me with. Don't be so foolish as to think Kerry leaves progressives no alternatives for expressing their will in the voting booth other than to vote for him.

[JI7]

16. no, he shouldn't duplicate the dean campaign

i know you are trying to be helpful. but why would he want to duplicate dean's campaign which didn't do well ? and many dean supporters have already said they will support kerry just because he will be the democratic nominee. kerry's campaign was successful and he should do what he did to help win in iowa which was his own campaign style. and kerry has his own strategies in getting out the youth vote which involves his children and they have been doing great. a lot of kerry supporters did do grassroots campaigning for john kerry and will continue to do as they did.

[mandyky]

19. There were parts of the Dean campaign that worked

I don't think it can be duplicated but ideas can be used.

See post #15

[Cheswick2.0]

23. Kerry's campaign was sucessful because he was set up

as the person most likely to be crucified in Nov. Lots of republicans voted for him in the primary based on that idea. Those people will be voting bush in Nov.

[MaineDem]

24. Interesting

I think just the opposite took place.

But this is hijacking mandyky's thread. Sorry about that.

[mandyky]

31. You aren't hijacking :)

But this thread has made it pretty evident to me that most DUers who support Kerry hate Dean and Dean supporters - yourself not included.

I really wanted to find a way to support kerry, but I am not sure I want to work with Kerry supporters if they exhibit the same behavior many DU Kerry supporters are doing here. I'll just find something else to do until Nov. and decide if my vote is needed then.

Hopefully, Kerry will attract and foster some grassroots support, because the media has already started in, and Kerry needs more than money and fall-in-line votes.

[JI7]

34. JOHN KERRY WON, DEAN LOST

it's the lack of respect for kerry and his supporters thinking dean is the only one with grassroots support. many of us kerry supporters did grassroots organizing for kerry and helped get out the vote. and dean spent more money in iowa than kerry and edwards yet kerry and edwards both came out ahead of him. it's because of john kerry and his supporters that he did well. the media had been after kerry for a long time, just days before iowa caucus they declared his candidacy dead. but we continued supporting and working for him because we like him and believe in him. dean isn't the only one with grassroots support. other candidates have it also including john kerry. and if you don't want to vote for kerry because he doesn't do as dean did then don't vote for kerry.

[mandyky]

38. I guess the Kerry campaign wants to shut out Dean supporters

Fine! BTW, aw never mind, not worth getting banned for....

[JI7]

40. if you are making demands

and wont vote if those demands are not met then don't vote for him. i don't see how that is shutting out dean supporters. i don't see supporters of other candidates saying kerry needs to treat them a certain way or he loses their vote. you are claiming kerry needs to do as dean did to get grassroots help. kerry HAD grassroots help. many of us worked hard for him, but you all want to ignore that and claim dean is the only one.

[mandyky]

41. There are none as teachable as

those who refuse to learn.

1 - I made no demands, I made suggesttions

2 - While I was speaking as a Dean supporter, Kerry also needs to reach out to supporters of other candidates' supporters - eg Edwards and Kucinich, but not with a "holier than thou" , "you have no choice" attitude.

3 Kerry can not win just with money and ads and such. He needs MORE grassroots. Who knows more about supporters than the folks who dealt with them in the Dean Edwards and Kucinich campaigns. My point is if Kerry wants to win, he could unite the party REALLY, not just to get rid of smirky chimp.

People need to take their fingers out of their ears and try to listen.

[Kahuna]

60. Perhaps if you want bush gone you will reach out to Kerry.

Just a thought. He will need your help.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

68. Kerry reached out to me today

Begging for money! Bwwwwwaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh

[mandyky]

66. kick

kick

[Kahuna]

59. Right. BTW, congrats on the Kerry win!

I'll always wish that Wes Clark won. But, he didn't. I wanted Wes to win so that he could beat bush. Now it's up to Kerry to beat bush. Therefore, I support Kerry 1000%.

Nobody took more crap on DU than Kerry supporters and remained above the fray. You guys were pure class all along the way. The same cannot be said for everyone else. The turtle beat the hare. Go turtles! :bounce:

[SidDithers]

49. Not really fair to say "this thread has made it pretty evident..."

"to me that most DUErs who support Kerry hate Dean and Dean supporters..."

After all, you're the 31'st post in this thread, and there have been maybe half a dozen or a dozen individual posters before you. Maligning "most" Kerry supporters based on what a few have said in this thread is just wrong.

That being said, I don't disagree with your original sentiment, and would expect the Kerry campaign to use the best bits and pieces of campaigns run by all the other candidates in the primary.

Sid

[union_maid]

69. Thank you

I'm a Kerry supporter now, but I generally read, but try to stay out of flamefests. Except if they involve Nader.

[JI7]

27. Kerry's campaign was successful because of Kerry and his supporters

it was Edwards who won the republican votes in wisconsin and georgia which had open primaries and made the race close. many of us kerry supporters helped with grassroots organizing and helped get out to vote for him. kerry himself worked hard in getting support. dean isn't the only one with supporters who worked on his behalf. many of us have been supporting kerry for a long time even when his campaign wasn't doing great. we stayed with him through it all.

[Kahuna]

58. Proof?

:shrug:

[JNelson6563]

29. Where to begin?

There were many successful parts of Dean's campaign, whether it pains you or not to admit that.

As to Kerry simply doing hwat he did in Iowa to win the GE, <snarf>, unfortuantely Geppy ain't around to throw his GE votes to Kerry so another plan will need to be in place.

Let's see....I know! How about Kerry do a little work on his stance re: IWR and other legislation where he fucked up? That's a start.

Julie

[JI7]

32. yeah, and that plan is dean's strategy ?

i'm responding to the original poster who said kerry needs to do what dean did and dean didn't do so well. and kerry DID do well. and those people at the caucus were free to vote as they wanted and most went for kerry.

[JNelson6563]

52. I recommend you learn more about Iowa

and how things played out there. I am fortunate to have had frieds there and got first hand info. Info you seem to be lacking.

Regardless of how Dean's money got spent, he had boatloads of it while Kerry was mortgaging his house. There's a component of Dean's campaign Kerry may want to copy (you know, instead of just Dean's message).

Julie

[jsw_81]

25. You want Kerry to duplicate the Dean campaign?!?

If he did that, he'd lose in a landslide!

[Blue_Roses]

28. Have you seen the ads this morning that Bush is

running? With all due respect, this isn't about DEAN anymore, it's about the DEMOCRATIC PARTY and how we are going to beat Bush. This kind of comment does NOT do anything to help beat Bush. If you have seen the ads, then get ready cause this ain't nothing compared to what he will launch next. If you haven't--you eventually will--cause they are coming to EVERY town in the US within the next 8 months.

The primaries are over. The dog-fight has begun and we will need all the energy we have to combat this attack.

[WonderGrunion]

33. I'd like to see Kerry's campaign

Talk to the people at the Dean Defense Force website and see if they could put to use their research and zeal to defending Kerry's record against all the republican BS that is going to be coming this way.

Clinton was also well known for the speed and efficiency of his rapid response team. We need something like this in place.

As to reaching out to younger voters, contact the admins of PunkzForDean.com. They are a young, energetic group of campaigners dedicated to raising awareness of politics among young voters that are usually apathetic towards the process.

[jsw_81]

37. That doesn't make any sense

Dean's campaign was a mess; he lost everywhere, and his "energetic" base of support was a fantasy.

[zulchzulu]

46. I agree

There is already a group that is similar to the Dean Defense Force in the Kerry campaign. It's not as pronounced or out in the open, but it's there. Looking for material about Bush to swat back at him can always use more hands and heads though.

As for the PunkzForDean.com equivalent, is that more of a cracker posse trying to bring down pro-Chimpy servers and whatnot? Gee, no one ever thought of that. :argh:

[DancingBear]

35. I'll try and speak for Dean supporters here

Even though I was not one during the campaign.

I think the gist of this original post was quite simple - we (the Dean campaign) did some things very well, and you may want to consider them.

It is probably very tough for the Dean folks right now - they see (as I do, though to a much lesser extent) Kerry as being yet another extension of the same old same old mantra that has ruled D.C. for ages. Their candidate (in their minds) was the antithesis of this, and for them to have to "stomach" an establishment guy is a tough thing. He is what they were fighting against (to some extent) and, let us be honest here - both Clark and Dean put some cajones into this election. By focusing on Bush and saying things other candidates were (at that time) too timid to say, a valuable service was performed.

There are now millions of Dean folks out there looking to try and help. It really wouldn't hurt if you'd listen to what they have to say. It's not crying, it's not whining - it's just a bunch of people saying listen. While their candidate may have been the wrong messenger, their message was and is correct in many regards. Take its strengths on the trail with you, and you'll be fine. No one says buy it part and parcel, for it is obvious that it had many shortcomings. I'm guessing, though, that there are a few parts of it that would fit in quite well.

[mandyky]

39. Thank you!!

That is the exact spirit and motive of the original post. But apparently, some Kerry supporters would rather hold a grudge than accept help from Deaniacs. I really do not want to hold my nose when I vote for Kerry in Nov., I want to help him beat shrub.

[AntiCoup2K4]

44. Very well said, but I gotta disagree on one point.

Dean wasn't the "wrong messenger". Because the message is going to sound a lot better from someone who you know actually means it. When I hear John Kerry speaking Howard Dean's message, it might as well be political Milli Vanilli, because I don't think he means a word of it.

[DancingBear]

50. We can agree to disagree on that

Rightly or wrongly, he was "perceived" as the wrong messenger, and painted in such a way to make him so.

I'm not doubting he meant what he said (and still does), but I think he tried to be left to those who wanted him to be left, while proclaiming he was a centrist all the time. I know at times I couldn't figure out which way he was careening, and I think a lot of other "average" folks saw that as well. The passion cut both ways, sad to say.

With regards to Kerry, I think he truly is in his heart a man who believes the Dean (hope) message, but just doesn't know how to say it (yet) without sounding insincere. I think as time goes on, he'll find his voice and we'll see him continue to fight for us. I don't know how he does it sometimes, but he can close the deal with voters. I trust him to do right - I have to.

[JI7]

48. ok, i have no problems with suggestions

i guess it was that one post claiming kerry won because republicans voted for him since he is weak that got me upset. and some other posts which deny kerry himself had grassroots support and hard workers when many of us worked hard for him. but i have no problems with hearing other suggestions. and i think those with ideas should post them on the kerry website on either the blog or the online forum.

[quinnox]

45. Kerry already has won over many Dean supporters

Where do you think Dean's votes went to, Kerry didn't win by big margins with only Kerry folks.

DU is not a good place for reflecting reality, but even here, some Deaniacs have graciously said they will now back Kerry, in spite of all the tribal warfare between camps.

Anyway, as to the suggestions, Clark and Gephardt have done campaigning for Kerry already, and I am sure there will be more to come in the general election.

Edwards also will probably stump for Kerry in a big way, if his concession speech is any indication.

[Kahuna]

61. And if Dean is as serious about ousting bush as he said..

He will campaign for Kerry too. We shall see.

[mikehiggins]

56. Without meaning to give insult, Dean won one state out of thirty.

I'd suggest Kerry NOT duplicate the "campaign style Trippi and Dean used," any time soon.

[JHBowden]

64. Kerry "statesman"-like stature

is his greatest asset; throwing it away on cheap tricks to look "cool" would be a disaster.

"Decentralizing" the campaign is a great way lose a lot of money; however, a centralized approach and a grassroots effort are not exclusive.

[MurikanDemocrat]

67. I disagree completely with your suggestions. The successful

campaign to date has been Kerry's, not Dean's. For Kerry to radically altar his game plan to have his revolve around Dean's strategy (a losing candidate) is a losing strategy. A very foolish idea.

I think most Dean supporters need to get used to the idea that this campaign and this election does not revolve around Dean nor them. We don't hear such demands from former Graham, Mosley-Braun, Lieberman, Gephardt, Clark, and Edwards supporters.

This is Kerry's campaign - he should keep on doing what he has been doing because it has been successful. Now that he is the presumptive nominee he is getting attacked by the GOP and Bush - THAT'S where his focus needs to turn and his energies need to be.

Sorry, but I think you need to lick your wounds on your own time. Kerry has more important fish to fry right now. If you decide you want to join the Democratic Party, then welcome. If you can't, then that's fine too. Take your time to heal. The rest of us have an election to win, and don't have time to coddle you.