I'm waiting for this Bush* TV ad: I ran and hid in a hole. So what?

[displacedtexan]

I hope moveon.org (or some other group) uses the 911 time line at cooperativeresearch.org:


Air Force One departs Sarasota.

(9:56 a.m.)Bush departs from the Saratoga, Florida, airport on Air Force One. With so many reports of hijacked planes, how is being in the sky unescorted any safer than being on the ground?

snip

WTC south tower collapses at 9:59.

snip

10:32 a.m. Cheney calls Bush and tells him of a threat to Air Force One. He is told it would take between 40 minutes and 90 minutes to get a protective fighter escort up to Air Force One. His plane turns toward Louisiana soon after. Many doubt the existence of this threat. For instance, Representative Martin Meehan (D) says, "I don't buy the notion Air Force One was a target. That's just PR, that's just spin." A later account calls the threat "completely untrue," and says Cheney probably made the story up. snip

(10:35 a.m.) Air Force One turns toward Louisiana. It has been decided Bush cannot go directly to Washington.


Colonel Mark Tillman in the cockpit of Air Force One.


The approximate route of Bush's journey on Air Force One is shown in yellow. Keep in mind the plane flies in circles somewhere in Florida for about 40 minutes before heading west. snip

11:45 a.m. Air Force One lands at Barksdale Air Force base near Shreveport, Louisiana.

12:36 p.m. Bush gives a short speech that is taped and played by the networks at 1:04 p.m. <"Just after 12:30," Salon, 9/12/01, 12:36, Washington Times, 10/8/02>

[MercutioATC]

1. One comment:

"(9:56 a.m.)Bush departs from the Saratoga, Florida, airport on Air Force One. With so many reports of hijacked planes, how is being in the sky unescorted any safer than being on the ground?"

It's safer for two reasons. First, in the air, Air Force 1 (A1) can go anywhere...and it's a big sky. The President isn't limited to roadways, he can fly in any direction, making him harder to track down. Second, A1 is a Boeing 747 and is faster than most commercial aircraft. Even if, by chance, a hijacked plane DID manage to locate A1, A1 could most likely "outrun" it.

[displacedtexan]

3. Check out the timeline and see if you find anything else specious.

You seem to have a talent for finding potential flaws. The folks at www.cooperativeresearch.org would probably appreciate your insights.

[MercutioATC]

4. I'll do that. I'm not sure what difference it'll make there, but I'm

always willing to lend an inside understanding to the discussion.

[molly]

2. This is bullshit

"He is told it would take between 40 minutes and 90 minutes to get a protective fighter escort up to Air Force One"

[MercutioATC]

5. Not necessarily. The pilots don't LIVE in those planes, you know.

Even with an aircraft that's fully fueled and armed and in position to go, the pilot needs to be contacted, briefed, suited up, transfered to the plane. Then he has to fly to the destination. 40 minutes doesn't seem out of line to me.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

6. He's right, it's bullshit

The turn-over time for those things is 15-20 minutes, max. And they don't live in em, but there are always, always fighter jets on duty and ready to scramble at moment's notice.

[Art_from_Ark]

7. So, there are four known hijackings going on

at the pilots are sitting around drinking coffee?

[revcarol]

8. Nothing at Eglin AFB?

Might wanna check that.

[MercutioATC]

9. Ok, reply to sirjwtheblack, Art_From_Ark, and revcarol:

I agree 90 minutes is a little unbelievable, but I think 40 minutes is realistic. Add with me.

5 minutes to contact the pilot(s)

10 minutes to have the pilot(s) report

5 minutes for them to be briefed

10 minutes for them to get to the aircraft, do preflight and get airborne

That leaves 10 minutes to get to their target. I think I've probably underestimated the times involved, too.

As far as Elgin goes, the times still hold true and I have no idea what aircraft Elgin had on alert at the time...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

10. No way.

It shouldn't take more than a moment to contact pilots who are on active duty when you know exactly where they are at all times. This IS the military.

The pilot is already on duty, so skip that 10 minutes. We've saved 15 minutes right there. That drops us to 25 minutes.

Edit: These guys aren't out having beers - there are always pilots on active duty ready to scramble at moment's notice.

[MercutioATC]

11. Do you think "on duty" means "standing right there"?

It's not like they're "on duty" sitting in a chair in some office...maybe not five minutes, but certainly more than "a moment".

As far as reporting, it all depends on where, exactly, they are in relation to where they'll be briefed.

Actually, I underestimated the time necessary to suit up, get to the plane, do preflight and take off, so we're probably covered, here.