Apparently some don't realize Kerry is our nominee

[ShaneGR]

Notice I'm using the word "some." Not "All of candidate A's supporters", just some people from varying backgrounds who just refuse to recognize reality. Folks, John Kerry is the nominee. Sorry if your feelings have been hurt by the process, but it was Democratic VOTERS who decided this... not some conspiracy.

The Democratic Party shouldn't wait to raise money for Kerry because a candidate has decided to stay in even though it's impossible to win. DK has said he's staying in the race until the convention. Good for him! But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be raising money for the one who's going up against Bush.

Howard Dean has publicly, on several occasions, stated that his supporters should support Kerry because beating Bush is most important. Heck, he's meeting with Kerry next week!

The bottom line here is this, do you really want Bush to get another 4 years to wreck this country???

[MercutioATC]

1. Kerry is NOT our nominee! Not yet, anyway.

That's the issue. He's not the nominee. regardless of what some of his overzealous supporters seem to think.

Since I truly believe Kerry's another nail in the Democratic Party's coffin, I'll wait until he's REALLY the nominee to recognize it, thank you.

[ShaneGR]

2. You just proved my point

He is the nominee, he has over 1500 delegates and DK and Sharpton have less than 50 combined. It's OVER! Deal with it.

[KoKo]

7. But, not all Democrats have had a chance to vote for the Nominee.

Don't you believe in the Democratic Process? Until the Convention Nominates Kerry he is the "frontrunning candidate." Those are the rules until they are changed where only a handful of states will be deciding Democratic Candidates in the future, I will abide by them.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FreeSpeechCrusader]

38. What undo grief is KoKo1 causing?

I mean since when is someone stating their opinion have to be described as disrupting and grief causing?

40. what are you referring to as being disruptive?

I missed it. That is, the only dis I saw was a disagreement, not a disruption.

[greatauntoftriplets]

16. Agreed, KoKo01.

Illinois' primary is not until March 16. No one has won any delegates from my state. On that occasion, my vote will go to Kucinich and to his delegates.

[sangh0]

45. Primaries are not a democratic process

and there's no such thing as a Democratic Process. The way the DNC runs the presidential primaries changes every four years.

If primaries were a democratic process, all the states would vote on the same day. Instead, the sequence of voting is determined in a non-democratic manner by the party's leaders.

The Democratic Party is a private, non-governmental organization, and our Consitution, which garauntees the individual's right to freely associate (or not) with who they choose, protects the right of private organizations to set their own rules, so long as those rules are legal.

[BruinAlum]

119. This is not the first primary that the nominee has been determined by

Super Tuesday. It NEVER comes down to the 50th states primary voting.

[MercutioATC]

10. Ok...a math and political process lesson:

1) Math. 1500 delegates isn't enough to clinch the nomination.

2) Politics. If Kerry fails to gain enough delegates before the convention, we have a brokered convention. Theoretically, all of the other candidates asked their delegates to vote for Sharpton and the delegates complied, Sharpton would gain the nomination.

Hell, Dean or Clark could even come back and take it (they haven't officially withdrawn).

My point is, while Kerry will most likely be the nominee, it's childish to say "It's OVER! Deal with it." to somebody who points out that Kerry is not yet the nominee.

[AntiCoup2K4]

12. 1500 delegates isn't the required amount

Sure, there's little doubt that nobody else will get more delegates than Kerry, and for better or worse (and it's definitely worse, in my humble opinion) Kerry will leave his hometown convention as the nominee.

But, as I said in my own thread, there's a lot that needs to be done between now and July. The true progressives and liberals in this party need to be heard. The centrists and Republican moles of the DLC got what they wanted. Now it's time to let the rest of the party have their say.

[Evil_Dewers]

26. The centrists and Republican moles of the DLC got what they wanted

Denial must be a river in Vermont.

[MercutioATC]

72. Cute words, but what about the issue? Kerry's still not the nominee yet.

I'm interested in a substantive response.

[Evil_Dewers]

83. The issue is that Dean is no longer campaigning

for president, yet you have a link in your signature line soliciting donations for Dean.

Dean has money. Let him and his doctor wife personally retire his campaign debt.

Kerry won't be the nominee until he accepts his party's nomination in July. So technically, you are correct. Also, Bush isn't the GOP nominee yet, so I guess all the valid and much needed anti-Bush attacks have been for naught--since he hasn't been nominated yet.

[MercutioATC]

87. I know Dean's not campaigning...I'm talking about Kerry and the nomination

As far as my sig line, feel free to ignore it (or contribute if you'd like). You have a Pacers logo as your avatar. Am I supposed to read something into that?

As far as your statement "Dean has money. Let him and his doctor wife personally retire his campaign debt."......If I feel that I want to help retire the debt, what business is it of yours? Didn't Kerry have to loan his campaign over $6M just to keep it afloat? At least Dean only only finished down about $400k (of which there's a little over $150k left to pay off).

All of the above has absolutely NOTHING to do with any of my posts that you're supposedly responding to.

The issue (which you've finally admitted) is that Kerry is not yet the nominee. That was my only point. Thank you.

[Evil_Dewers]

92. The issue is that Kerry is not yet the nominee...

Bush isn't the GOP nominee yet, either. So we should stop attacking him. ;)

[MercutioATC]

95. If Kerry were the only candidate, I'd agree with you. He's not.

Kerry would be the nominee if there were no other candidates. The point is that there ARE other candidates.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

[Evil_Dewers]

97. Technically (since you are so technical) Bush is not the only GOP

candidate for president. There have been people in states who were on the ballot against Bush in their primaries.

[MercutioATC]

101. Then let the Republicans deal with that. Your statement makes no sense

If I had said that Republicans shouldn't attack Kerry because he's not the nominee, it would be valid to say that Democrats shouldn't attack Bush because he's not the nominee.

I don't recall saying anything about Republicans attacking Kerry.

[Vas Liz]

120. Fools

They would have been wise to dump bush in favor of someone else. Obviously the repubs are so out of touch most of them don't even begin to understand that.

[lurk_no_more]

109. Let him and his doctor wife personally retire his campaign debt.

Yeah right! Like that will ever be an option in the mind of dean when there are still folks out there willing to do it for him! Other peoples money is a whole lot more fun to spend than your own!



And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[MercutioATC]

116. At least people support him enough to send money. How much did Kerry

personally loan his campaign to keep it afloat? Over $6.5M?

[KoKo]

41. Sigh...... DU isn't a Sheep Farm where "herding" achieves anything but

anymosity.

[TrueAmerican]

4. Time to vacate fantasy land.

The park closed last Tuesday Night for good. Hurry, before you are arrested for trespassing.

Time to face reality.

[MercutioATC]

17. Time to realize what 's fact and what's opinion.

I freely admit that Kerry is likely the nominee. Hell, it's extremely likely. That's my opinion. However, it's still a FACT that he has yet to gain enough delegates to secure the nomination and, therefore, he's not yet the nominee.

[unfrigginreal]

29. Now why'd you have to go and throw facts into the mix?

Party pooper! :-)

[Liberal Christian]

13. Technically, you are correct, of course.

Kerry IS not yet the nominee. There will be no nominee until the convention. However, it does seem quite certain that, barring wildly unforeseen circumstances, John Kerry WILL BE the nominee since he already has 72% of the votes needed to win the nomination.

Time to get on the bandwagon.

Unless you're a divider, not a uniter.

[MercutioATC]

27. I'm a Democrat, and the nominee gets my vote.

If you've read anything I've posted, you'd have seen that I'm relative sure that Kerry will be the nominee, but he's NOT yet and I take issue with people saying that the other candidates and their supporters should just sit down and shut up.

[Evil_Dewers]

37. people saying that the other candidates and their supporters should just

You don't have to sit down and shut up, but it would be nice if you did.

[MercutioATC]

67. I feel the same way about you.

Cheers!

[Evil_Dewers]

84. "I feel the same way about you"

I'm not the one getting hopped up on semantics and technicalities.

Tell Trippi and Dean I want my $250 back.

[MercutioATC]

98. No, you're the one misrepresenting probability as fact.

...and if you want your money back, tell him yourself.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

122. n/t

n/t

replied to wrong post.

[The_Counsel]

15. Dawg... Kerry's The Presumed Nominee. Accept It.

Kerry may not yet have the roughly 2,200 delegates he needs for the nomination, but he most assuredly will have them by the convention -- if not by the end of March.

Please name ONE state where Kucinich or Sharpton figures to even do well, much less win. Sharpton's best chance was New York, and Kucinich's Ohio. Both were beaten soundly. Unless Kerry is, somehow, busted selling crack directly from his Boston campaign offices HE WILL BE THE NOMINEE. Period.

In fact, he is more the Democratic nominee than Bush is the current President....

[MercutioATC]

33. Dawg, Post #17 works as a reply to you, too.

[The_Counsel]

44. Absolutely. Read My Post Again, Please...

I said he's the PRESUMED nominee, and will be such until the actual delegate tally at the convention.

My point is this: there is no point in acting like someone else could come out of nowhere and take this from Kerry. A "brokered convention"? LOL! You may as well well worry about the sun blowing out by Saturday....

Repeat after me: Kerry is the presumed nominee.

Again: Kerry IS the presumed nominee.

Now keep saying it until it sinks in. It won't take as long as you think: Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee. Kerry is the presumed nominee....

[MercutioATC]

63. I understand what you're saying, but it doesn't make a whit of difference.

I said as much when I admitted that I thought he would be the nominee. My issue isn't with people who say it's their OPINION that he'll be the nominee, it's with people that state it as FACT.

Actually, "presumed" is a little strong for me. I don't "presume" anything. In fact, I'm hoping like hell that he's NOT the nominee. "Presumed" implies resignation and I'm not willing to do that.

[Nederland]

103. Question

You say in post #17 that its "extremely likely" that Kerry will be the nominee, and yet you don't like the use of the word "presumed"?

I don't get it.

pre·sume - To constitute reasonable evidence for assuming.

If its "extremely likely" that Kerry is the nominee, doesn't this definition fit rather well?

[MercutioATC]

117. The difference is that if I say I think it's "extremely likely", that

means that I presume he'll be the candidate. Calling him "the presumed candidate" lends an air of universal agreement that I'm not prepared to attest to. Presumed by whom? Yes, the poster and me, but does that justify his anointment as "the presumed candidate"?

[LynneSin]

24. I'm a long time Dean supporter and even I'm on the Kerry bandwagon

Why wait for the rush - hop on now!!

[MercutioATC]

31. Not gonna do it.

The nominee (yes, probably Kerry) gets my vote. As far as the "bandwagon" is concerned, I reserve that for candidates that are more than a protest vote.

[NNN0LHI]

77. Didn't you get the memo? That makes you a Republican mole of the DLC

At least according to one intelligent poster in this thread. :crazy:

Don

[BL_Zebub]

80. "hopping on now" would imply endorsement of the DLC platform

..as it currently exists. Kerry will have the majority of delegates at the convention, but he will not have enough to claim it without delegates of other candidates crossing over. And those delegates should not cross over without some incentive.

Kerry has spent the last three years voting in line with the Bush agenda. The party machine, for whatever bizzare reasons, decided to put him up against his Fraudulency. They chose the candidate, but that doesn't mean they should choose the message. Running Bush lite against Bush isn't going to result in anything good. So from where this Devil sits, it makes far more sense to stand for your principles now, and then after the convention, support Kerry. Which, for this Devil, will only be if I feel he's running as a true Demoncrat and not as a tool of the corporate fascists currently in power.

[Evil_Dewers]

86. Running Bush lite against Bush

Holy Joe Lieberman is Bush Lite.

The conservative New Hampshire Gazette endorsed Lieberman for the Dem nomination, not John Frickin' Kerry.

[rbnyc]

93. The difference is that Dean withdrew.

I do accept that Kerry will be the nominee. I'm not in denial. And I will support him. But the primary season is not over and it IS important to send more progressive delegates to the convention, and it IS important to send a message to leadership that they cannot marginalize our values. I respect folks who support Kerry or any other candidate whether they do so because the feel so-called elect-ability is the most important issue, or whether they feel their candidate has the best platform. I expect all of us to get behind Kerry after the primaries. But I also expect to be respected as I continue to push for a more progressive platform, and as I continue to use the primary season the way I believe it is best used.

I don't think that your post is disrespectful, but I do believe the post that started this thread is.

;-)

[Bread and Circus]

32. Yes, he is, give me a break. There is a time to face reality.

That time is now.

[MercutioATC]

73. That time is when he actually gains the nomination.

I'm surprised at the general disdain of the Democratic process here...don't we have an accepted procedure for selecting the nominee? Hasn't Kerry yet to complete that procedure?

[Evil_Dewers]

35. Since I truly believe Kerry's another nail in the Democratic Party's

To parpharase Crowded House:

Hey now, hey now,
don't Dean, it's over...

[MercutioATC]

76. Again, cute, but what's your point?

This isn't a pro-Dean stance, it's a position based on fact. There's a criterion for being selected as the nominee and Kerry hasn't fulfilled it yet. That's the only actual fact.

[Evil_Dewers]

85. what's your point?

You must know how the Baathist dead enders felt when US tanks rolled into Baghdad.

First anger...followed by denial...

bargaining and acceptance are your next stages.

[MercutioATC]

96. I'm neither angry nor in denial..

I'm stating fact.

It seems that you're the one who's unable to deal with a simple truth.

[Evil_Dewers]

100. "I'm stating fact."

If Howard Dean's and John Kerry's delegate totals were reversed, you wouldn't be singing this tune.

[MercutioATC]

102. I challenge you to find ANY post where I've said ANY candidate should drop

out. You'll find plenty that state that they should all remain in as long as they're able to 1) have their issues aired and 2) cost the Republicans more money by not being able to focus their attack ads.

So you're wrong once again. Not on;y do I NOW state that I wouldn't be singing a different tune if the situations were reversed, I've actually proven it by encouraging other candidates to stay in the race, even when Dean was the frontrunner.

[MercutioATC]

105. *** crickets ***

Can't find one, can you?

[Evil_Dewers]

107. I wasn't looking. n/t

[MercutioATC]

110. Fair enough. I'd ask you to look before you accuse next time, though.

[HuskerDem]

104. Kerry IS the nominee - That's reality

It's like insisting that George W. Bush is not the president.

Illegitimate? Sure. Fraudulent? Definitely. And yet there he sits. They play "Hail to the (t)chief" for him and fly him around on Marine 1 and everything! It's ugly and wrong but he is the president. That's the other reality. The important one. The reality that we CAN change, the reality that responsible adults realize should be changed. Who knows how many lives may depend on getting Bush out? Now is not the time for self-centered grandstanding and puritanical petulance.

Unless of course that is all one is capable of, in which case you are a detriment to any wagon you jump on and Nader or some other crackpot is welcome to you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I still support Wes Clark, but I'm proud to support John Kerry as our parties nominee and the next President of the United States.

[WilliamPitt]

3. Funny. I tried to do this the other day

and wound uo apologizing for it. I think you and I had words in that thread...

[ShaneGR]

6. Yes, but you did it all wrong

You targeted an entire group. You used words like coddling. You were looking for a fight, not a discussion. Of course, I'm probably doing it wrong to. Perhaps I was a bit harsh with you, but you had it coming. Now we can break bread and save our flaim for another day.

[KoKo]

23. sgr2 this post of yours is really just a "modified" version of Pitts. Why

do it again? Are you just grumpy this a.m. or do you like redux. The lecturing tone is bound to offend many DU'ers, so why do it?


Here's what you say:

"Notice I'm using the word "some." Not "All of candidate A's supporters", just some people from varying backgrounds who just refuse to recognize reality. Folks, John Kerry is the nominee. Sorry if your feelings have been hurt by the process, but it was Democratic VOTERS who decided this... not some conspiracy."

[WilliamPitt]

81. You hit me 'cause I had it coming?

Sounds abusive to me. :)

[Malikshah]

108. Shades of the Cell Block Tango

He had it coming, he had it coming....

Pop
Squish
Cicero
Lipschitz...

Sorry--just saw it on cable the other day.

Seriously, though-- both the threads come across as arrogant to me.

For different reasons, but arrogant nonetheless.

Looks like some folks...sounds like "Looks like what we have here is a failure to communicate."

People need to seriously get over themselves.

[unfrigginreal]

5. So, you're fundraising for Kerry or just seeking support?

No matter which, you are incredibly persuasive.

[Polemonium]

8. and apparently some don't respect that hundreds of thousands

of people didn't want him to be. Now that it looks like he will be perhaps some of his overzealous supporters should think about how they plan to get those people on board. Or they can continue to stick their hands in their ears and go NA NA NNNAAA NNA NA, or whatever it is you think your doing with this post.

[curse10]

22. that's the nature of politics, majority wins

millions of people didn't want Bush to be president, but he is. We've all supported people that have lost before. This is no different. All we can do is pick up and move on.

And no one should have to persuade anyone to get on board. I'm personally mighty suspicious of people who need persuading. There are bigger issues at stake here.

[Polemonium]

39. I live in a town where alot of people need to be persuded

Be as suspicious as you like. The majority does win elections, but in this case the winner needs to build bridges so he can win another one. Many won't be taken for granted. I will, but in my town folks are talking about third party candidates. I think that bush* has pissed enough people off to keep the third party vote lower than it was last go round, but you wouldn't know that by talking to folks in my town. They may get over it, but their vote shouldn't be based on who pissed them off the least - should it? Folks in the Kerry camp could do a better job at being inclusive.

[curse10]

52. I think it's obvious that Kerry has been very inclusive

Clark people are behind us. Gephardt people are behind us. Edwards people are behind us. And a few Dean people are behind us.

I don't expect Sharpton and DK supporters to drop their campaign support. They still have a candidate in the race.

However, Kerry and his supporters were ridiculed for months on end here at DU and by the media. We were told that we should give up and go home on a daily basis. I was called stupid and retarded by Dean supporters on this board. I was accosted by Dean supporters at Kerry fundraisers and rallies. So don't talk to me about being inclusive. The bridge may have been burned long ago, but it wasn't by Kerry supporters.

[Polemonium]

56. So do you cry about burnt bridges or do you acknowlege

that for some unknown proportion of Democrats something will have to be done to rebuild them.

[curse10]

64. I don't cry over crap like that and honestly

I don't care what those "democrats" do. If they are democrats then they will vote for the nominee. If they were independents, as a great portion of Dean supporters were, then they will make up their own mind. If the Dean supporters can't take the heat they should have stayed out of the kitchen. I was fully prepared to support the nominee, regardless of who it was. If they weren't prepared to do the same, then that's their problem. Not mine. Not Kerry's.

Dean's campaign was the great divider and if anyone needs to build those bridges it's him. He called the other candidates bush-lite. He repeatedly lied about the candidates positions. It's his job to get his supporters in line, and so far he's doing a piss poor job at it. I never thought Dean was a democrat to begin with. A moderate and best, and a federalist at worst.

Am I happy Dean is gone? You betchya. And I'm not going to apologize for it. And if his supporters are too arrogant and selfish to vote for the nominee, then they can be held accountable for another four years of Bush.

[Evil_Dewers]

42. majority wins--millions of people didn't want Bush to be president

But Bush didn't get a majority of the votes.

He didn't even get more votes than Gore.

[jmaier]

25. In every election period,

hundreds of thousands if not millions of Democrats have favored an alternative Democrat. Kerry is no different in that regard. Again, this year, like in years past, those who preferred Kerry have the same choice they always have: support the nominee or, by default, support his opponent. You have to fight for change, over time, one state, local and national election at a time.

[Polemonium]

47. True but people have never been this invested

in the primaries at a grassroots level, at least not in 30-40 years. I think that is being overlooked, and so far I get the impression that some are not going to get over the loss quickly or easily, if at all.

[Liberal Christian]

71. I think they need to get over THEMSELVES

My preferred candidate did not become the front runner. My second choice did not become the front runner. My third choice did not become the front runner. John Kerry did become the front runner and he will be the nominee of the Democratic Party.

I like John Kerry. I always have. In a dream world, he would not have been my first choice. But I don't live in a dream world. I live here, in this world, where we have the most dangerous president in my 50-year lifetime.

It's time to quit whining because one's preferred candidate didn't win and find a way to enthusiastically support John Kerry. Suck in those pouting lower lips and get over yourselves. The future of this country is too damned important to let it be directed by the current Idiot-in-Chief.

[Gman]

30. If you call yourself a Democrat then you support the Democratic nominee

Its real simple Party Nominee--->support. There is no trying to get real Democrats on board. A real member of a party supports the nominee. There is no kissing anyone's butt. Its called unity and solidarity.

[Polemonium]

43. wrong approach

If you don't see how that might upset folks then you will never get it. Your logic suggests I'm a real member (goodie), but all those fake members out there who are telling me Nader sounds like music when he speaks well, you really didn't want their support anyway did you?

[sangh0]

49. Wrong approach

There are some who will never voted Dem. And it's funny how those on the fringe think Dems should both stand up on principle but relent to the demands of the fringe.

So, even though we can't tell who is a real Democrat based on their posts, it isn't unreasonable to claim that those who still cling to the notion that they can sit on their hands until the convention have profoundly misunderstood the nature of party politics.

[Polemonium]

55. wrong

these same people were working for the campaigns of Kucinich, Dean, Sharpton, Braun, Clark. But many of these folks were actively giving money and participating for the first time. These newbies may be a bit more unpredictable than you think. Sure they might come around, but you wouldn't believe it to talk to some of them. They're out there, perhaps you just need to get out more to meet them.

[Evil_Dewers]

60. Braun???

Who here worked for Braun?

Buehler?

Buehler?

Buehler?

*cricket chirping*

[sangh0]

69. I think the 3rd-party and independent newbie vote is exaggerated

IMO, even amongst those who are new to electoral politics, the idea that the Dems are the best hope for defeating Bush* is pretty widespread. I see very few "I hate Bush* but I won't vote Dem" newbies.

On the other hand, I do see a lot of "I voted for Bush*, but I won't do that again. This year, I'm voting for the Dem, whoever it is".

IMO, I think efforts invested in attracting the votes of independents and Repukes who are sick of Bush* will pay off more handsomely than putting effort into those who should be voting Dem but are very reluctant to do so because they feel the Dems aren't liberal enough.

[Gman]

66. This is not an "approach" because

you don't have to approach a real card-carrying Democrat. You approach someone that is not a Democrat. Democrats are about unity and solidarity. These words cause many here to say, "huh??". Then Democrats reach out to independents. If you're a Democrat there is NO question in your mind who you are going to support in November.

This is not some kind of wishy washy decision making process. This party has a nominee. The party FAITHFUL support the nominee. Its real simple. This party will target independents that are open to listening to the philosophy of the Democratic Party. But that is NOT done within the party.

Therefore, if you are a member of the Democratic Party you are already supporting the nominee. If not, the party has plans for targeting you to find out what the hell is it you don't understand about getting rid of Bush.

[Goldom]

9. No, really, he ISN'T.

Get the terms right. He WILL BE. I have no denial there. But the party has NOT YET picked a nominee. 20 states, including mine, haven't even got to vote yet. Kind of like, George Bush isn't YET the Republican nominee. Of course he will be, but it hasn't been declared yet.

[meegbear]

14. Hear hear

While I am glad that DK and Sharpton are still in the race, it does look like it's Kerry (unless he's found with a dead girl or a live boy).

What gets me are the people of the candidates who dropped out who are running off. If Kerry had dropped out and another candidate had all these wins, they would be telling, nay ORDERING, people to stop the attacks and fall in line.

If you support DK or Sharpton, keep up the fight! If you don't want to support Kerry, fine. But the reality is, if you're guy (or gal) dropped out, IT'S OVER!

[FreeSpeechCrusader]

51. They are probably running off...

Due to the arrogant nature of a FEW Kerry supporters who tell them that they are idiotic for not realizing that Kerry has won the nomination. I do not see the problem if they state what they believe. I can not force my beliefs upon anyone because every one has their own beliefs and their own minds. If you want to support your candidate all the way to the convention...that's fine. Not everyone is going to automatically switch to be an avid Kerry supporter so get used to it. We all want Bush gone and that is the bottom line, but there is no need for some Kerry supporters to minimalize all of the airing of complaints and everyone's frustration. It was only pretty much locked up since Tuesday...everyone needs time. So, my suggestion, if you want to win some people over to the heavily supporting Kerry category, you might want to work on listening and offering some compassion.

[Evil_Dewers]

62. you might want to work on listening and offering some compassion

Yeah, the Clarkies and Deanies were really compassionate to the supporters of other candidates when Clark and/or Dean were the frontrunners.


;)

[FreeSpeechCrusader]

70. Does that mean that I stand for all Clark supporters???

I have had utmost respect for all supporters until they slandered Clark or provided false information against him. Some supporters does not equal all supporters.

[Evil_Dewers]

90. Recovered Deaniac here.

I never slandered Clark. He was labeled a "war criminal" by the right wing, and I'm very disappointed some so-called liberals used right wing lies against Clark.

I read a shitload of negative crap about Clark on Counterpunch. It was like the National Review or American Spectator was writing that crap.

[Gman]

18. Its hard to deal with people in denial

Because they're not living in the same reality as everyone else.

[Crachet2004]

19. No serious person will wait to fund Kerry...

because DK is still in the race. DK just doesn't have much else to do! I like the guy and admire his principles, but ask yourself...what is his other occupation?

DK should cut a deal with Kerry, may have already done so, to unify the party. Maybe that way he will have a job after we win in November...'lives to fight another day'...

[Dhalgren]

57. His "other occupation"? I would say Member of Congress.

[Crachet2004]

78. If he wants to say in Congress...

He better take his butt back to Ohio. The Buckeyes are not that liberal. He will need to campaign in his district to keep his seat, IMO.

But it's a (somewhat) free country...it has always been hard to run in two campaigns, especially if one is a House race-people want a Representative dedicated to the district.

And lets face it, DK isn't really doing that well nationally. Nor will he.

Hopefully, his continued candidacy for president will gather up everyone on the far left, and bring them back to the fold at the convention...but how will that image play in Ohio? IMO, you cannot have it both ways.

If I were him, I would cut a deal with Kerry...he may already have.

It would be nice, on the other hand, to keep his seat Democratic!

[jadesfire]

99. who won his primary

to be the Democratic nominee and keep his seat in the House. Looks like DK had a back up plan (kudos by the way- we need him in the House!)

( :

[johnlal]

20. I don't remember voting yet.

I still reserve the right to cast my ballot.

[Castilleja]

21. Some do not realize the nominee has not been selected yet.

Give it a rest.

[revcarol]

28. Just more spam doesn't make your assertion true.

I still like democracy and am eager to have Democrats have their say.

[JHBowden]

34. Some want Bush to bury Kerry.

Why? For "democracy?" That is a flimsy excuse; Kerry has already won something like 27/30 primaries and has defeated all of his credible opponents.

[The_Counsel]

48. Yup. They're Usually Known As Republicans...

n/t

[mikehiggins]

36. Kerry is most certainly not MY candidate

but I will support him as much as I can with the intent of removing this cabal of jingoistic imperialists from our nation's capital.

Will Kerry improve things or make things better for the American public? About all I can say is he can hardly do a worse job than the people in office today. As far as providing the leadership needed to get the things done that have to be done, even the things he is now including in his stump speech, I just don't see it.

He is the same old/same old that gave us Bush in the first place. All we will do by electing him in November is buying this country some time. Hopefully we won't waste it because if they lose in 2004, you can be sure BushCo and the boys will be back in 2008. Four years of mamby-pamby failed Democratic leadership will usher them back into office like some sort of Restoration and we will never see the end of them.

So, Kerry is NOT my candidate, but I will work my hardest to help get the current (p)resident out of the White House.

[janx]

46. What is the point of these stupid threads?

Really? Every day I log in here to find at least one of them, probably more.

They're ridiculous.

What exactly is the point?

[Polemonium]

50. I believe it is like a doctors reflex hammer

or a red flag in front of a bull, etc. Just making sure the predictable can still be made to occur. Unfortunately I fell for it, too many beers at dinner.

[janx]

59. Do you by any chance know the web site that lists

legislators' emails?

I need to write to legislators in Idaho. The University of Idaho Press is about to close! Small presses and university presses are so important.

[lovedems]

53. sgr2, I couldn't agree with you more. I don't vote until March 16

and since my candidate Clark is out of the race, I am facing reality and voting for Kerry. He is going to be the nominee, he has run a good campaign and he deserves my vote.

My husband will cast his vote for DK and I am proud of him for that but the reality of the situation is, Kerry is the one going up against bu$h and he has my full support. If I disliked Kerry I might consider a protest vote but that is not the case. I am on the band wagon.

[in_cog_ni_to]

54. If we want to be "technical" here...

we don't have an "official" canidate until he/she is NOMINATED at the Democratic convention in Boston.

[Duder]

58. Apparently, some don't believe in the Democratic Party's...

...rules for nomination.

[maxanne]

61. thanks so much

for yet another warm fuzzy post aimed at bringing us all together.

How many of these inflammatory threads must be started every day?
Is there a quota? Is it neccessary to continue to flame supporters whose candidates are still in the race? I won't even bother to mention the futility of the ongoing flogging of those whose candidates have left the race. That's the height of productivity and purposefulness.

Why is basic disagreement and difference of opinion so frightening to so many?

[Evil_Dewers]

65. Is Dean still in the race?

Some Dean supporters feel he's just laying low; they claim he didn't quit and just "suspended his campaign" and that Dean will continue to pick up delegates until the convention.

What do you think? Is Dean still running for president?

[in_cog_ni_to]

68. He did just win Vermont,

right? He on suspended his campaign, like Clark. They did not WITHDRAW from the campaign.

[Vittorio]

75. Get real.

Does Dean have any chance of getting the nomination? I don't think so. He won his home state...one contest out of 20-something. Move on.

[maxanne]

113. did I mention

Dean anywhere in my post? Could you attempt to address what I actually did say, and stop reading between unwritten lines?

[Evil_Dewers]

121. did I mention Dean anywhere in my post

Nope, I mentioned him in my post.

I know you are a Dean supporter and just wanted one of his supporters to tell me if she thought Dean was still running.

in_cog_ni_to (who supported Clark) thinks Dean (and Clark) are still running.

What do you think?

[maxanne]

123. did you miss the news

Evil Dewers? Dean ended his campaign. It made all the papers and tv and everything, not that long ago.

[WilliamPitt]

91. "Why is basic disagreement and difference of opinion so frightening..."

[maxanne]

115. too bad

you aren't willing to give more than a pat answer to the issues raised in my initial post, Will. The picture is glib, facile - but it's not a real response.

[Vittorio]

74. Yes he is.

Thank you very much. Sorry folks...but Kucinich and Sharpton don't have a chance in Hell to get anywhere remotely close to the delegates that John Kerry holds...even if you were to combine the two, they wouldn't have nearly enough.

It's time for us all to realize the reality of the situation and support Kerry 100% at this point.

[Dhalgren]

79. Are Democrats who haven't had their primaries yet, still allowed

to vote, or has the rest of the primaries been cancelled? If I am still allowed to vote in my primary (it's in June) then I will retain my options to vote for whomever I choose. Unless we are no longer allowed to vote.

82. samuel delaney rules

and as far as I'm concerned you still get to vote.

[Dhalgren]

88. Yes he does!

And thanks for the voting thing.

[HuskerDem]

89. This party needs to get down to business and fast, and I'm sure we will

Kerry is the nominee and he needs every dollar he can get to defeat the BFEE.

If Kucinich and Sharpton want to stay in that's fine, but we will not let it interfere with the reality of the task before us.

[MercutioATC]

106. How is Kerry the nominee? He doesn't have the delegates yet.

I believe he will at some point, but he's clearly NOT the nominee yet.

[Doomsayer13]

94. the party shouldn't lay down to the Bush machine

just becuase candidates for whom it is mathematically impossible to win persist. If they want to run, fine, and if Democrats want to vote for them or anybody else, that's fine as well. But for all practical purposes, it's just not smart politics to not fundraise as a courtesy to candidates for whom can't win. The Bush cabal is coming out guns blazing and we need to respond in kind, or we lose.

[Evil_Dewers]

111. just because candidates for whom it is mathematically impossible to win

If the Cubs were 20 games back on September 1st with four teams ahead of them in the standings, their fans would give up.

But the dead enders at DU won't.

Keep hope alive. LOL.

[katieforeman]

112. As an Edwards supporter I'm now behind Kerry 100%.

He won fair and square. He wasn't my first choice but he's a good man and will be a good President.

I'm really keeping my fingers crossed that I'll get to vote for Edwards in November as Kerry's VP, but no matter what, you're right. It's time to put aside any hurt feelings and concentrate on the task at hand. That's what Edwards, Dean, Clark, Gephart, Graham, and Mosley-Brown would want. (Sharpton and Kucinich will hopefully want that too after they drop theur own bids.)

let's buy Bush that bus ticket back to Crawford.

[lams712]

114. Was the convention held yesterday and I missed it???????

It doesn't matter anyway. Who give a fuck whether or not Kucinich or Sharpton stays in.
If the nomination is "OVER" as you say it is, what's the harm if these two insignificant gnats try to get some more delegates before July???
If the nomination insn't over, then what's the harm in actually trying to compete for it???
Either way, your supposition doesn't make any sense. Even if there is a little competition, judging by the results of Super Tuesday, Kerry would have absolutely no problem dispatching them. SO NOBODY IS GETTING HURT, and we as DEMOCRATS MAY ACTUALLY BENEFIT BY THE DEBATING OF IDEAS AND DIRECTION OF THE PARTY. What's the harm in any of this????

[found object]

118. what does giving money to DK have to do with getting bush re-elected?

This man still has the best plan for our country by far.

[AmyStrange]

124. Why are all the states left still voting then...

I would sure like for you to complain to the people who are the real problem. For example, why don't you quit insulting and beating up on the people in here and go tell all those other states that are still voting. Why are they continuing these "insane" primaries and caucuses if Kerry is the absolute shoein? Why are they even having the convention in August in Boston? Why not just stop all that craziness and get on your bandwagon and start the presidential campaign. Why in Goddesses name are they still having these elections? The folks in here have no control over any of that. Go complain to the states that are still holding these elections and especially the convention in August. Those people are your real enemy not anyone here in DU.

And how exactly will the small number of people that you are targeting in DU stop you or anyone from donating to or helping to volunteer for Kerry's campaign. How does it stop Kerry's campaign at all?

If you really want to help Kerry, then help Kerry, don't insult or beat people up in here in the hope they will quit talking and chatting and discussing and begin to "miraculously" join the Kerry chant. It is counterproductive to the Kerry campaign. If anything, this type of behavior will hurt Kerry's campaign more than help it.

Hope you are ready to "get over it" in Nov if Kerry loses because of your type of behavior. Personally, I don't think there are enough people here in the DU to throw the election one way or the other. If there are, then what does THAT say about Kerry's electability,


Dave (AmyStrange.com) Ayotte
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