A Case for Continued Support for Dennis Kucinich thru the Convention

[redqueen]

It's clear that the next few months are going to be fairly intolerable if we have to put up with the ubiquitous 'why is he still running?', 'why don't you get real?', 'Kerry's the nominee, get over it' type of really helpful, unity-fostering messages.

So, in a (probably futile) effort to dispel some of the wasted energy on the part of those too-common threads, please allow me to explain why no matter how much foot stomping, arm twisting, chest pounding, or verbage spewing you do, the vast majority of Kucitizens and Shaprton's supporters will continue to support Kucinich throughout the primary process:


1. Delegates to influence the platform

See, one of the things we who are erroneously labeled as 'far-left' are most concerned with is the general direction of the Democratic Party. We look around the world and see all these other countries providing universal single payer health care to their citizens. We think we should do the same, and are intent on making it a goal the party will strive for. Getting this plank among with others into the platform is a goal and the only way to do it is to get DK or AS more delegates.


2. Showing the country (and world) who we are

'Conventional Wisdom' says that liberals are the tiny minority. I (and probably others) think this is far from the case. One way of making our liberal values clear is by supporting a canddiate who is not totally pro-illegal-war, pro-frighteningly huge defense budget, pro-corporate welfare, etc. If we don't provide a reason for people to note Kucinich's support, the impression of the US around this country and the world may very well continue to remain a sorry one.


3. Gaining bargaining power

You hear all the time that there is no support for liberal anything. That's the excuse for cutting Phil, for no Randi Rhodes - although I think that may be changing, it still doesn't explain how few liberal talk show hosts there are compared to conservative, etc.

If we want to be recognized as a bloc, a liberal bloc, then we have to vote that way. Kerry's already disavowed his liberalness, and I don't expect him to defend it - at least not before November. Some may correctly feel he can't, due to the resulting savaging he'd take in the press. Whether that's true or not, what's clear is that without US standing up and speaking LOUDLY for a liberal agenda, we will remain marginalized. If the talking heads all decide that everyone voting for the pro-IWR, pro-Patriot Act candidates means that liberals are really the fringe, then the only way to show we're not is to stand up and vote for our values. I've never been surveyed about my political leanings so this is my ONE chance to speak out for them.

For those areas where Kucinich had broad support, it may be much easier to get more liberal candidates for public office, more liberal talk shows, more of a liberal bent to the local press, etc. You have the numbers to back up the argument that it's popular.


4. Because Kerry is in no danger, and Kucinich and Al being in HELP him

Lookit, one of the biggest labels they're trying to pin Kerry with in attempt to capitalize on the demonization of all things left is 'liberal'. With Kucinich and Al gone for the next few months, the media would have a field day. With them in, there is no way to make that liberal label stick. He did a marvelous job of this on Sunday. As soon as they go, the media will take the gloves off and we'll see the REAL Gore-ing of Kerry begin.


5. Because this is AMERICA and we are DEMOCRATS

I understand that a lot of people are very worried about this election. I share that concern and hope that people can recognize that we obviously don't all agree on what's the best way to go about reclaiming our democracy. It's fine to disagree, but please note that it is our right to support other Democrats on this board through the campaign.


I'm sure there are other reasons to have them in. To any who made it this far, thanks for reading all this. :hi:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. I have no objection to Kucinich remaining in

and I feel he contributes to DIALOGUE which is important.

[Iverson]

2. sounds good to me

There's another thing that is kind of a thread through your points. That is: context is everything. Kucinich's presence affects the discourse, even if just a little, without which the rightward drift would be faster.

[loftycity]

3. I with you on this.....it is a good plan...and we need DK and AS

voices on the issues.

[Gato Moteado]

4. just keeping the soundbytes in the news is reason enough

if everyone dropped out and let kerry just have the nomination (which he's obviously gonna get anyway) then there wouldn't be any reason for kerry and the other candidates' voices to be in the media and chimpy would grab center stage. as long as there's debate going on, kerry's face will remain on the news and chimpy will have to take a back seat. that's what we want.

[mmm]

5. Kucinich frames the debate. Essential.

Let him hit Bush hard while the moderate Kerry looks on.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. Yes, for all you ABB types

Voting for Kucinich cannot hurt Kerry at this point!

However, voting for DK is the best way to register your support for:

1) a peaceful and cooperative foreign policy, including opposition to the Iraq War

2) universal health care

3) fair trade and labor rights

If any of these are your issues, and you live in a late primary state such as Oregon or Florida, then signal your beliefs to the DNC by voting for Dennis Kucinich.

[Desertrose]

7. exactly redqueen....exactly...

for all the reasons that you have stated and then some :)


The more focus on the many dems running...the less time for bushwa and its better to have three -or more- taking shots at bushie than just one...this is and ADVANTAGE , having Kucinich, a real straight shooter in the mix. I don't see a down side to this at all.


Peace
DR

[Vladimir]

8. Well indeed

you forgot one thing though: he is still best on the issues! :)

jokes aside, I enjoyed reading that.

[redqueen]

22. hehe

Didn't forget, just didn't want to unnecessarily antagonize our resident browbeaters. :)

[rbnyc]

9. THANK YOU!!!!!

I will support Kerry after the primaries, and I have NEVER badmouthed him. But right now it's still very important to send more progressive delegates to the convention and to let the Democratic leadership know that I'm here and my values are important.

I'm really sick of people telling me that I'm not a good Democrat because I refuse to subjugate my voice during primary season.

Your post rules!

[redqueen]

27. Thank you!

You're a good Democrat. Fear is motivating a lot of people and it's something we should try to be understanding about. That's part of why I posted this, in the hopes of having some understanding.

:yourock:

[Mairead]

10. You forgot #6, RQ: we might win.

Kerry still has only 1/3 of all delegates. That's a tribute, I think, to how lukewarm the support really is for him, given all the 'resistance is useless' bloviation from Media Inc.

[Dookus]

25. Lukewarm?

NO other candidate in a widely contested primary has done as well as Kerry has.

He's won all but three states so far. There's nothing lukewarm about that.

[MaggieSwanson]

11. A voice of reason and wisdom...

make that two voices; RedQueen and Kucinich!
:toast:

[redqueen]

28. Now THAT'S some damn fine company!

Thanks!

:yourock:

[goodhue]

12. sounds good

My support remains ongoing!

[blm]

13. And many of us who support Kerry agree with your reasons, redqueen.

..

[JohnKleeb]

30. its just the jerks who dont understand

I am in full support of DK. Hell I might even send him some money soon.

[Zomby Woof]

14. well, yeah!

Was there ever any doubt? :-)

[redqueen]

15. Thanks to everyone for your support!

:yourock:

[bigtree]

16. Any experts here on splitting the vote between president and delegates?

Like voting Kerry for pres and choosing Kucinich delegates? Amy thoughts?

[redqueen]

18. Bump for answers

:kick:

[rbnyc]

19. In most states...

...I believe that your vote for DK delegates won't make any difference unless DK gets a certain percentage of the votes. As far as I understand it, each candidate gets a percentage of delegates based on the percentage of votes they take. In many, if not most states, a candidate has to get 15% of votes to get any delegates at all. Then, the delegate votes come into play to decide which delegates get to go. if DK gets 16% of votes, he gets 16% of the state's delegates, and it's the ones with the most votes who get to go, the others stay home. So splitting your primary ticket that way does not increase the number of delegates who get to represent DK.

[bigtree]

23. Thanks for the clarification I get it now

Well, I think Redqueen makes some powerful points. I think that a strong finish by DK would be good for the party and the majority of Democratic voters who are looking for a broad range of solutions from our party, as well as a certain defeat of Bush.

Energy is what is at stake here. Energy and support to propel our nominee into the GE.

[KoKo]

17. Yes, he should stay in. Those of us who haven't voted should have a

voice in who we want to vote for. That's Democratic. Just as Bush should have had a challenger from within his own party. Because the Primary was weighted to some states upfront doesn't mean that we have to
let those states be our voice. We are Democrats and we belief in fairness and that all voices have a place at the table.

I'm shocked that some here don't see this as Democratic process, and are willing to declare the Candidate when so many of us haven't even had a chance to vote yet! :eyes: It's starting to make me think that the three years of Bush have made some accepting of "lock step" thinking.

Sheesh!

[Forkboy]

20. an even better reason

it's pissing off the asshole wing of the Democratic Party.

[redqueen]

21. Can't argue with that one, Forkboy!

I sure do love your posts.

*MWAH*

[Zhade]

24. HA! You just made my day.

Thanks for that. It needed to be said. :evilgrin:

[scarletwoman]

34. *snerk*

Damn straight! I love how your mind works... }(

sw

[WarNoMore]

26. Great post.

I totally agreee.

[IndianaGreen]

29. I am planning to vote for Kucinich in the Indiana primary

Kucinich is the only progressive voice left, and this explains why the media has totally ignored him.

Getting rid of Bush is the only common goal we share, and getting rid of Bush is only the first step in a long struggle for justice and equality.

[redqueen]

31. Thanks IG!

Every little bit helps... we have to do this ourselves, the media will NOT be cooperating ONE TINY BIT.

Thanks for your support!

:yourock:

[lams712]

32. Amen on all counts!!!!

A big :kick: for Dennis Kucinich staying in the race until the convention and building a progressive movement beyond 2004!!!!

[eridani]

33. 6. Draws fire from the Rethug slime machine

And attacks Shrubbie from another direction.

[welshTerrier2]

35. We need positive energy for all democrats

i voted for Kucinich ... Now, i'm totally committed to the ABB camp ...

and I have no problem with Kucinich, Sharpton or any other democrat speaking out as often as they think will help our cause ... if Kucinich and Sharpton want to stay in until the convention, I have no problem with that ...

there is nothing inconsistent between being ABB and appreciating the positions that Kucinich and Sharpton continue to articulate ...

on the other hand, i think that those who did not support Kerry in the primaries should now do all they can to get him elected ... the Kerry, Kucinich and Sharpton campaigns can easily co-exist ...

we need to focus our animosity on bush, not on each other ...

[MurikanDemocrat]

36. Sorry you're running into this. I agree that Kucinich is still a viable

choice in the primary states yet to vote and disagree that he is causing any harm to the primary or nomination process. The same goes for Sharpton.

The Bush ads and campaign have started and as long as fundraising has been able to begin on behalf of the DNC and the nominee apparent, there is no harm being done by having other candidates having their voices heard, thus no foul.

Good luck.

[scarletwoman]

37. Wonderful post!

You've made an EXCELLENT case, I'm so glad you posted this!

All of us who have been decrying the rightward shift of the Democratic party over the last many years now have this incredible opportunity to stand up and make ourselves visible INSIDE THE PARTY!

Not a protest vote for a third party candidate, not a give-up-on-the-system-stay-home-and-NOT-vote, not a standing out on the street shaking our fists at an oblivious power structure -- we can vote for a DEMOCRAT! A Democrat who speaks for US!

If your state hasn't had its primary yet, you have a chance to perform a HUGE service to the Progressive movement! The "electability" question has been settled -- NOW you can vote your heart!

sw

[ordentros]

38. supporting Dennis keeps folks away from Nader too

which will please some folks...

[Crunchy Frog]

39. I'm very glad that he's

staying in the race. He says things that need to be said, that others are too afraid to say.

I'm planning to caucus for him when our state has it's caucus in April. I don't think it will take anything away from Kerry and I want DK to have a place at the table at the convention.

[scarletwoman]

41. Kucitizens everywhere thank you!

Is there a good DK campaign happening there? We had an incredible bunch of hard-working people here in Minnesota -- here's hoping you can do even BETTER where you are!

sw

[Crunchy Frog]

42. I know there are in Boulder

I'm right outside of Boulder and I don't know if there are many in this area. I will have to talk to the Boulder people and see what they know. I havn't been in contact with them because I've been too preoccupied with the Clark group.

[Kanary]

46. Went to a meetup last night in Denvoid

Enthusiastic group, action and ideas.

We're looking forward to Dennis' next visit! :)

Kanary

Another Delusional Diehard for Dennis!!

Kucinich 2004!

[DemBones DemBones]

40. Good post, redqueen! And if anyone hassles you, just shout

"OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!"



:hi: Just taking the opportunity to say I've always liked your screen name. . .

[Kanary]

43. It was good for me to come home tonight and see your post

I got a crappy response to my DK button this evening, and I sorta blew. It made me realize that all the ugly sniping here at DU has gotten to me.

It's to the point where I was seriously thinking I could just no longer be a DEM. There is only so much abuse one person can take.

So, your post, and some of the generous responses from other supporters (Sure wish there were a lot more!) has helped me to hang on a while longer. Not sure how long.... the ugliness has really been overwhelming.

Keep saying it like it is... some of us are in need of that...

Kanary

Another Delusional Diehard for Dennis!!

Kucinich 2004!

[Desertrose]

44. Kanary...sorry you had a rough time...

just know that that lil' DK button has also turned quite a few people on to DK and will continue to do so on its journey with you!!!!


:hug: & :loveya:
DR

[Kanary]

45. Thanks, Desertrose!

Yes, I know it has, and I'm sure it will continue.

It was just some jerks, same as encountered here.

It was on top of too much critical picking, and I just couldn't take it anymore. Same as here.

Tomorrow I'll be around better people. Unfortunately, my strength is sapped, so I won't be as sharp as I could have been. I sure wish people would pay some attention to how they knock people down!

Anyway, I'm not at my best now, but....... this thread helped, and I so much appreciate your pat on the back!

:hug: :loveya: right back.... :)

Kanary

[snoochie]

47. Hang in there, Kanary

This movement for peace, and for recognizing the needs of those who are dismissed or forgotten, will only grow. I hope that you can rekindle your spirit a bit with the knowledge that you've got lots of people who share your goals in this country - and there will be more each and every day we move forward.

[redqueen]

50. Glad it was well timed, Kanary

And more glad that you're still fighting to advance the vision of what this country could be. :)

:hug:

[jsw_81]

48. Kucinich isn't going to have any power whatsoever at the convention

To influence the nominee and change the platform, you need to have several hundred delegates (e.g. Jesse Jackson in '88). Kucinich will be lucky to have twenty.

[scarletwoman]

49. Hey, jsw_81! Thanks for kicking our thread!

We can always count on you! Good work! :D

sw

[The Magistrate]

51. There Is Every Reason, Ma'am

For you and others who support Rep. Kucinish to continue do so until the convention. The points you have outlined above are good ones. No. 4 in particular appeals to my coldest calculations in these matters. It is one of the best contributions radicals could make to the defeat of the most reactionary elements of our polity at the polls. There are critiques of the criminals of the '00 Coup that we all know are valid ones, that radicals can make and mainstream political figures cannot. As these will inflame in desireable directions a useful proportion of the populace, it is good to have them out in the open, even though they cannot be made "officially" by a candidate. Providing the fire is directed at the Republican criminals of the '00 Coup, and not at the Democratic Party and its standard bearer, such efforts will be all to the good.

"There will be a holiday in our street soon!"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[redqueen]

53. Glad to see you agree

:toast:

[scarletwoman]

55. Thanks, Magistrate!

Appreciate your affirmation!

Candidate Kucinich has always made it perfectly clear that he will support the Democratic nominee, and as a supporter of Kucinich, I intend to do the same.

There are always issues outside the "frame" that mainstream candidates simply will not risk bringing up. However, it is completely appropriate and valuable for those of us in the progressive vanguard to bring attention to these issues and push the envelope, as it were.

sw

[The Magistrate]

62. A Pleasure To See You About The Place Again, Ma'am

The envelope does need to be pushed. If the focus is kept in doing so on matters like jobs and health care, it may well be possible to get it through many folks' heads they really are leftists, after all....

"Go into the street and give the first man you meet a shilling, and the second a lecture on moral improvement, and discover which will call himself your friend."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Desertrose]

52. a FL primary BUMP

Go DENNIS!!! :yourock:

FEEL BETTER!!!
:loveya:
DR

[G_j]

54. I'm with ya

will be voting on the 17th for DK

[goodhue]

56. kick for Kucinich

hoping he gets well soon

[IndianaGreen]

57. Dennis is staying in the race until the bitter end

and I will support him for as long as he is running for President.

It Ain’t Over ’Til…

March 4, 2004

The Cleveland Plain Dealer asked Kucinich today what part of ‘it’s over’ he didn’t understand. Kucinich responded: "The part that says that we're still in Iraq, that says there are 43 million Americans without any health insurance, the part that says we lost 3 million manufacturing jobs, that we've got a front-runner who basically has taken NAFTA and the WTO off the table. And the part that says, last I checked, this is still a democracy."

Kucinich told the Plain Dealer his continued presence gives a forum for important ideas in the Democratic Party. "There are critical differences within the Democratic Party which have to be aired, and they really reflect on whether or not the Democrats can win the election in November," he said. Kucinich warned against ending the debate now and taking it outside of the Democratic Party. “It will be assumed that Democrats may not care about these things," he said.

http://www.kucinich.us/itaintovertil.php

[Hell Hath No Fury]

58. Kucinich's message...

got my apolitical sister's ass in a car and to an Indian restaurant in Irving, TX the other day, where she sat at a table with bunches o' Dallas Dem leaders and across from Kucinich.

This is a woman who hadn't known the Soviet Union had split until over 6 months after it happened.

Kucinich got her interested, talked about the things she wanted to hear, and inspired her to remain involved.

He should stay in because he has freedom to say what needs to be said without worrying about losing an election.

[govegan]

59. Wonderfully said..

I haven't reviewed the math yet, but the Washington conventions are not until May. We hope to send some delegates to Boston, if at all possible.

In any case, DK and the progressive/radical voice will be heard. The echoes will resound beyond 2004.

[populistmom]

60. We need him

I voted for him last week in fact. Kucinich is my heart and it was the last time I could cast my ballot completely with my heart. I supported Dean initially because I thought he was the best that was electable, but sadly, that was a no-go. Kerry has my complete support in November, but we NEED to hear Kucinich at the convention. We can't forget his message at a time when it becomes easier to cave into centrism.

[LWolf]

61. kick for Dennis

I hope he's feeling better.

And a kick for redqueen and her powerful reminder about where we want to be when we regain the WH!

:kick"

[goodhue]

63. makes so much sense

its common sense really

[redqueen]

64. Got two more voters on board last night

And educated a few more who had already voted early about the dangers of BBV (they had no idea).

Rock on, fellow Kucitizens. If you want to rock the boat, you have to rock the vote -- and that means phone calls, door-to-door, talking to friends & neighbors, etc.

I know there are some new people who have decided to support Kucinich to send a mesage to the the party, so if you'd like more information on how to help spread the word about Kucinich's message of peace and hope, click here.

The media will not be helping to spread the word about your desire for national healthcare. The media will not help to educate anyone about the need for electoral reforms. The media will actively fight the spread of information about the investor-protection-only free trade agreements or the 'race to the bottom'.

We have to do this ourselves. We are the people we've been waiting for.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -- Gandhi

[goodhue]

65. kick for voters in TX, FL, LA, MI

courage!

[redqueen]

66. Courage, America!

I love that line.

:loveya:

[goodhue]

67. Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world . . .

Alfred Lord Tennyson

"Ulysses"

It little profits that an idle king,
By this still hearth, among these barren crags,
Matched with an aged wife, I mete and dole
Unequal laws unto a savage race,
That hoard, and sleep, and feed, and know not me.

I cannot rest from travel; I will drink
Life to the lees. All times I have enjoyed
Greatly, have suffered greatly, both with those
That loved me, and alone; on shore, and when
Through scudding drifts the rainy Hyades
Vexed the dim sea. I am become a name;
For always roaming with a hungry heart
Much have I seen and known - cities of men
And manners, climates, councils, governments,
Myself not least, but honoured of them all -
And drunk delight of battle with my peers,
Far on the ringing plains of windy Troy.
I am a part of all that I have met;
Yet all experience is an arch wherethrough
Gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades
Forever and forever when I move.
How dull it is to pause, to make an end,
To rust unburnished, not to shine in use!
As though to breathe were life! Life piled on life
Were all too little, and of one to me
Little remains; but every hour is saved
From that eternal silence, something more,
A bringer of new things; and vile it were
For some three suns to store and hoard mysell,
And this gray spirit yearning in desire
To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought.

This is my son, mine own Telemachus,
To whom I leave the sceptre and the isle -
Well-loved of me, discerning to fulfill
This labour, by slow prudence to make mild
A rugged people, and through soft degrees
Subdue them to the useful and the good.
Most blameless is he, centred in the sphere
Of common duties, decent not to fail
In offices of tenderness, and pay
Meet adoration to my household gods,
When I am gone. He works his work, I mine.

There lies the port; the vessel puffs her sail;
There gloom the dark, broad seas. My mariners,
Souls that have toiled, and wrought, and thought with me
That ever with a frolic welcome took
The thunder and the sunshine, and opposed
Free hearts, free foreheads - you and I are old;
Old age hath yet his honour and his toil.
Death closes all; but something ere the end,
Some work of noble note, may yet be done,
Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods.
The lights begin to twinkle from the rocks;
The long day wanes; the slow moon climbs; the deep
Moans round with many voices. Come, my friends,
Come, my friends,
'Tis not too late to seek a newer world..
Push off, and sitting well in order smite
The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
Of all the western stars, until I die.
It may be that the gulfs will wash us down;
It may be we shall touch the Happy Isles,
And see the great Achilles, whom we knew.
Though much is taken, much abides; and though
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are -
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

[MaggieSwanson]

68. "Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark..."

Ayn Rand
Atlas Shrugged

"In the name of the best within you, do not sacrifice this world to those who are its worst. In the name of the values that keep you alive, do not let your vision of man be distorted by the ugly, the cowardly, the mindless in those who have never achieved his title. Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads.
Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the not-at-all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration for the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. Check your road and the nature of your battle. The world you desired can be won, it exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours."

I liked your Ulysses, Goodhue.

-Maggie

[redqueen]

69. I love that pic in your sig file

:hi:

[MaggieSwanson]

70. *sigh* ...Me too!

:loveya:

[flaminbats]

71. the ever-shifting center....when will it stop, why should it stop?

Who cares about liberty and poor people anyway?

In the 1960's the Kennedy's and the Johnson's represented the political center of our party, in the 70's the center drifted toward people like Henry Jackson and Jimmy Carter, in the 80's it moved toward Gary Hart and John Glenn, during the 1990's it shifted to Bill Clinton and Howard Dean, and now it has moved to people like John Kerry and Evan Bayh.

Where will it move next...Rodney Alexander, Ben Nelson? :smoke:

[redqueen]

72. Is it really accurate to keep calling it the 'center'

if it's been moving right for so long?

[redqueen]

73. Last minute Kick!

:kick:

[JohnKleeb]

74. Just pledged a 100 dollars

HQ called.

[redqueen]

76. Cool!

:toast:

and

:kick:

[no name no slogan]

75. kick for MN Delegates meeting tonight

:kick:

Minnesota for Kucinich Senate District/County Unit convention is tonight @ 7:00 PM in St. Paul. Visit the MN for Kucinich web site (www.minnesotaforkucinich.com) for details!