Kerry needs to reach out to Dennis Kucinich if he expects his support

[bigtree]

Dennis doesn't owe John Kerry anything. Dennis hasn't betrayed any Democratic principles in his advocation of the repeal of NAFTA, the WTO, the Patriot act, and the IWR.

Without the pressure from Kucinich, splinter interests like the Nader contingent will rightfully gain ground, taking the heart of our party's energy, our liberalism, outside of the Democratic arena as an opposition instead of a strength for Democrats.

A strong Kucinich with a bagful of delegates rolling into the convention will allow Kerry to adopt these concerns into his platform and future debate. The campaign between now and the convention and the votes that Dennis receives will give legitimacy to his concerns and bolster Kerry as it will keep him from being drawn to the right of the debate by Bush.

Kerry needs to continue to speak out about unfair trade and treaty enforcement, Justice department abuses and immigrant rights, 9-11 cover-ups, and on concerns about how we got into Iraq and our continuing presence there.

Kerry needs to reach out to Dennis Kucinich (meetings, phone calls) and echo his concerns if he expects his supporters to embrace him. Sooner than later. I expect him to.

[sangh0]

1. More playing of the Nader card

and unreasonable demands. Here's a hint:

Threats don't work if you can't show the ability to carry them out

[morgan2]

3. its not unreasonable

they've never tried to even reach out and offer a few points to Nader, can't hurt to try.

[sangh0]

7. What's not unreasonable?

The demands?

Making demands of a candidate is always unreasonable if you don't have the power to make them obey

[BruinAlum]

8. I would completely ignore Nader. Talk to Kucinich instread.

[JI7]

9. Kerry has

he said he will fight for all votes and has a record and ideas that includes things the green party or nader supporters find important. and nader himself said kerry has a great record and that he likes kerry. kerry has also worked with nader in the past.

[bigtree]

12. Where did you get that I support Nader? I most certainly DON"T

If we don't address the left within our own party they may look elsewhere. What purpose do we serve driving the left out of the party in our race to the center?

[sangh0]

15. I didn't get that

I didn't you support Nader. I said you played the Nader card.

Without the pressure from Kucinich, splinter interests like the Nader contingent will rightfully gain ground

With or without pressure from Kucinich (and there will be little or no such pressure. DK and JK like each other) Dems will not be voting for Nader. Even a lot of Greens will be voting for Kerry.

[bigtree]

17. Energy, support will be needed long before the vote

All of this will give momentum and get Kerry through some inevitable rough spots. Supporters can be a lift or a drag. You can't threaten folks into supporting Kerry. Maybe some will become so dismayed that they'll stay home. Not the battle hardened DU voter, but the busy workaday voter who doesn't hear their concerns being addressed forcefully enough. Apathy is such a powerful force that moderation may not inspire them to action.

This far out from November, we need all of the energy we can muster.

[sangh0]

What are you talking about?

You can't threaten folks into supporting Kerry.

Where have I threatened anybody?

[sangh0]

18. What are you talking about?

You can't threaten folks into supporting Kerry.

Where have I threatened anybody?

[bigtree]

21. Why did I get your goat today?

I meant the generic 'you'. 'You' as in, 'we' can't threaten with Nader or anything else. I'm not too good with my words today. I didn't mean to challenge anyone but Kerry with this post.

[sangh0]

32. OK, so who is threatening anybody for their vote?

Or is this just more of the "Why is everybody so mean to me?" whine, as if everybody else on DU is nice to everybody else on DU.

The only "threats" I see are those who say "Do X or you won't get the support of Y voters"

[bigtree]

41. What the fuck are you talking about? Whining? This is a message for Kerry

I am one of the strongest Kerry supporters on this board. All I'm saying is that if Kerry wants DK's support and by extention, his supporters than he has to address their concerns. If not then they may sit this one out or look elsewhere. We need their energy. We need their enthusiasm. Not just their vote.

Why did you personalize my message as an assault on you or any supporter?

[youngred]

42. Thank You

so very much :loveya:

[youngred]

27. is it so unreasonable

to ask that the Democratic nominee for the Presidency act like a Democrat rather than a moderate Republican. Hell, Nixon was more liberal than many of today's Dems.

[sangh0]

33. Ask?

I dont think sentences phrased like "Kerry needs to..." are requests. They are demands.

Requests can be reasonable. Demands rarely are

[youngred]

34. So why do so many in the center

demand our votes, our money, our activism, our time, our energy and then ignore our wishes, ideas and feelings?

ABB has become a demand made by the center. I'm sick of being alienated and making requests. I made requests and was ignored and marginalized. I tried/try to work with moderates and its gotten me nothing but their hatred

[sangh0]

35. Who is demanding your vote?

I see people saying that a vote for anyone else is a vote for Bush*, but that's not a demand. It's an argument.

You could argue that it's a pretty poor argument, but that does not make it a demand.

ABB has become a demand made by the center

No it's not, and saying it is doesn't change the fact. Maybe the pull of it's inherent logic just feels like a demand.

And it's not just centrists saying. Plenty of liberals are saying it too. Right here on DU.

I made requests and was ignored and marginalized.

Making a request doesn't garauntee that it will be fulfilled. If you want the party to change, you have to make it change. And think about it, if your requests were ignored, what makes you think your demands wouldn't meet the same reaction? (and I'm not *YOU* made demands. I'm asking "what if?")

It's politics. If you want it to change, you have to get people to agree with you. Lots of people. Then you have to organize them. Requests are not enough. Neither are demands. What counts is political power. It's the only thing politicians respect.

[youngred]

37. I don't argue it as a bad argument, it makes sense to me

and the way that many frame the issue it is a demand. Read the posts around here and tell me otherwise, I dare you.

I'm making no demands, I'm making a suggestion that if Kerry wants support he has to work for it as hard as he works for center support. Your points are illogical and silly because you're reading into my posts that which isn't there. People do agree with me. Kucinich's approval rating among Democrats is 74%, higher than any other candidate...however, that doesn't translate into votes because peopler are afraid over electability.

This thread was about achieving some balance of unity and bringing DK supporters around to Kerry (most of whom will anyway despite frantic denunciations from the center). Thanks for adding to the divisiveness so prevelant in these parts.

I don't think you really want the left to exercise its political power

[Palestine]

2. I hope Mr. Kerry lends Dennis an ear

Kucinich has real solutions.

[BruinAlum]

4. I suspect he will reach out to Kucinich, but not because of Nader.

Nader is a egotistical has-been and I don't buy him as a threat to this election.

[GreenArrow]

5. Kerry needs to step on Dennis like some sort of loathsome bug

He doesn't need to pay any attention to DK at all. Dk isn't pulling any votes, and everytime another candidate drops, that candidate's supporters have gravitated to the implaccable force that is John Kerry. Dennis' supporters will do likewise; it's simply beyond their control.

[Mairead]

11. It's a reflection on the pesthole that a few loudmouths have made of DU

that it took me nearly a full minute's scrutiny to feel sure you're being sarcastic. Yes, even I wondered about even you. Isn't that terrible!

*sigh*

[GreenArrow]

16. well, I'm glad you figured it out correctly

and I'm glad it took you a minute; that means the sarcasm was good!

}(

[Desertrose]

19. *snork*...ya got me too....

and I'm like all..."hey wait a minute!!!!!!"

and then the light bulb over my head lit up.
:think:

Excellent....and well done!
:evilgrin:

DR

[youngred]

28. Yeah That's it

It's posts like these that make me wonder if the "big tent" party has all its poles up. It's too bad that your sarcasm is just true enough to be true for many here.

Edit for clarity

[JI7]

6. Kucinich said he will support the democratic nominee

i'm sure dennis kucinich will play a bigger role than expected since Kerry is going to really try to win ohio.

[bowens43]

10. Kerry doesn't owe DK anything either.

DK, like Nader is minor player, a small fish in a big pond.

[bigtree]

14. Lots of liberal concerns are muted by centrist stands

Progressive is not a dirty word.

[youngred]

29. So if you don't need him?

nor Nader voters than why such acrimony?

oh wait you DO need them

[bigtree]

30. youngred

We do need them.

[youngred]

31. you did, which I appreciate

the person i was replying to does not share your well founded view of electoral politics though

[DuctapeFatwa]

13. He doesn't need it. Kucinich favors deviation from the status quo

on some issues. Limited, but still a deviation. Kucinich supporters tend to be voters who do not agree with current policies, no matter who they are presented by.

Kerry does need the votes of those who consider Kucinich and his supporters to be a radical fringe, irrelevant to politics but a dangerous element in society.

[no name no slogan]

24. They need us more than we need them

If the Kerry folk TRULY want to get the grassroots and the disaffected voters excited, they'd best take a page from the Dean/Kucinich/Clark camps and reach out to the disaffected voters.

There's almost 50% of the people in this nation who don't vote in presidential elections. Just imagine if we could even get one-tenth of that total to vote for a Democrat: we wouldn't have to worry about the supposed "swing vote", because we'd be covering the gap.

Just imagine if we can get one-fifth of that disaffected 50% out to vote for our candidates: not only would we not need the so-called "swing vote", we'd win with a large margin of victory to boot!

Polls have shown, repeatedly, that Americans are much more liberal than the press paints us to be. Most people favor a universal healthcare system. Most people support rebuilding our infrastructure over increased military spending. Most people favor shoring up Social Security and Medicare over tax cuts.

These are OUR ISSUES. But we need to ARTICULATE them if we want to win-- not just pay lip service to them.

The progressive/grassroots campaigns have shown they can fire up the base and bring in disaffected voters to the party. If the Democrats truly want to be the "democratic" party, they will listen to ALL the voices under the big tent: not just the ones with the most money.

[DuctapeFatwa]

25. They don't need the grassroots and disaffected voters. One of the problems

with the current system is that Democrats and Republicans just fight over the same little clump of folks.

All those grassroots and disaffected people know they have neither a voice nor a choice. Neither party has anything to offer them.

To win a larger share of the little pool of political hobbyists, all Kerry has to do is be a more attractive contestant,

[info being]

39. But Kerry's goal isn't to win. It's to protect establisment power first

[Vas Liz]

45. Bingo

"If the Kerry folk TRULY want to get the grassroots and the disaffected voters excited, they'd best take a page from the Dean/Kucinich/Clark camps and reach out to the disaffected voters."

If they fail to do this I am 100% sure we will have 4 more years of bush.

[JohnKleeb]

20. I assume Kucinich will be big in the Ohio campaign and I feel Ohio will be

important.
I think the two probably get along. A Kerry supporter and Ohioan talked to Dennis and Dennis had nice things to say about Kerry. I do know also for a fact and personallythat Chris Heinz, Kerry's stepson likes and respects Dennis a lot as does Teresa. I also know that John and Dennis are cosponsoring a bill together. I would like him to incorporate a large part of DK's platform honest. He has done some of the things in past that DK supports like DoD cutting, strong environmental stands, and opposition to the death penalty. This may sound hard for many to believe but I was reading a newspaper today, and supposely Kerry is one of hte most liberal senators, and I am not talking about past sessions of congress, I am talking about recent ones. I dont have a link sorry.

[bigtree]

22. This is what I am talkin' about

"incorporate a large part of DK's platform"

[JohnKleeb]

23. *drools*

I would love it.
DK's platform is the best. I personally think Ohio will be a battleground state, I hope DK has some role in winning us Ohio.

[youngred]

26. He doesn't need to reach out to Kucinich

so much as he needs to reach out to Kucinich's supporters.

He has to shore up the left if he hopes to beat Bush

[info being]

36. That's right. Guaranteeing Kucinich a prominent position...

will get him at least another 4 - 5% of the vote. He doesn't have to make a big deal out of it...just some sort of gesture to all of us.

But I fear his Skull & Bones buddies won't allow it. It will be interesting to see who his VP and Cabinet choices will be.

[youngred]

38. exactly!

Just a little bone now and then instead of hearing about how we're "fringe fruit loops" who the party doesn't need

[genius]

40. Dennis may support the nominee but Kerry needs Dennis's supporters

Kerry needs to reach out and the platform needs to include Dennis's ideas.

[molly]

43. Dennis's ideas? How? What?

[bigtree]

44. There will be a struggle for priority of issues. What to emphasize,

what to defend, will be stretched by the challenges from the other side. It is perfectly reasonable to think that some issues may have a stronger appeal presented differently or with more emphasis than Kerry has in the past. There may also be a need to demonstrate through support for Dennis the strong degree that some care about other issues that Kerry may otherwise feel he can downplay to appeal to some strategic paper moderate who is usually more inclined to vote republican. Let's coalese with our own party's faithful first.

Here are some issues that Dennis advocates that I think couldn't hurt to amplify all the way to the convention. Others may have their own. If they offend, tough shit. Kerry could do worse than to consider them.

43 million Americans without any health insurance: Work towards a universal, single-payer system of national health insurance.

NAFTA and WTO: Forget tinkering. End them and renegotiate fair trade legislation.

Support efforts to repeal "Right to Work for less" laws in all states.

Support legislation outlawing the use of permanent replacements for workers who exercise their legal right to strike and cancel any Federal contracts with companies who bring in replacement workers during a labor dispute.

Aggressively work to limit the provisions of the Taft-Hartley Act.

IWR: Repeal the IWR. It was premised on Bush adminisration lies.

Strong, vocal support for Native American rights.

[molly]

46. Strong, vocal support for Native American rights?.

how much stronger can one get than a 3 billion dollar a year budget - that is growing?

[bigtree]

47. Dennis says that involves a wide range of issues.

"The federal Government has failed in its chosen responsibilities as a guardian of Indian resources and as a treaty partner. The mismanagement of Indian lands and Indian mineral rights is appalling. Forced to live on reservations, which inhibit their cultural practices because of land mass size and economic development because of location, tribes are forced into poverty, resulting in other social problems. The federal government has failed to live up to its treaties and to its responsibilities for the welfare of our First Nations.

As President, Dennis Kucinich would re-affirm the U. S. commitment to honor its treaties with tribal governments, to maintain strict adherence to tribal sovereignty, to increase funding for tribal programs, especially health care, housing, environmental protection and education. This Presidency would enforce existing laws and enact necessary laws for the following:

Protection of tribal cultural practices through environmental protection and natural resources conservation funding and tribal consultation

Protection of Sacred Sites through federal policies and legislation as required

Protection of historical sites and grave sites through strengthening the Native American Graves Protection Act and greater consultation with tribes.

Protection of the Hawaiian and Alaska Natives, and Indigenous Peoples everywhere from persistent organic pollutants and the effects of global warming through reduced emissions of hydrocarbons, adherence to the Kyoto Protocols, and an aggressive energy strategy that maximizes our country's development of renewable energy sources, energy-efficient automobiles, and conservation.

As President, Dennis Kucinich would insure that incentives are built into all federal programs that will maximize the ability of tribal governments and tribal peoples to develop economic enterprises that will benefit Indian peoples and create jobs for America. The federal government will work tirelessly to insure that royalties are managed properly with full accounting to tribes and individual royalty owners and that problems of the past are rectified.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

From his page:

Democratic Candidate Dennis Kucinich has received the endorsement of the Dine Bidziil Navajo Strength Coalition, a coalition of 24 grassroots organizations.

"The Navajo Nation are known to themselves as the Dine people. They comprise the largest indigenous community in North America and are currently faced with multiple problems stemming from radioactive contamination due to uranium mining on their land, along with other energy corporation incursions damaging to their fragile ecosystem and the health of their people. They are also engaged in struggles to protect sacred sites and to retain the precious water, farming, and grazing rights that are essential to survival in arid land. For the past three years, the Dine Bidziil One Mind, One Voice, One Prayer coalition of 24 grassroots organizations has convened annually to affirm their life ways, share views and information, organize on key issues, and select leadership.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Kucinich endorser, 2002 Green Party Vice Presidential candidate, and world-renowned Native human rights and environmental activist Winona LaDuke said: "Dennis Kucinich is a leader with integrity and demonstrated courage. His commitment to democracy, equity, constitutional rights, environmental justice and peace is honorable and long-standing."
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Rebecca Jim
"As a long time environmental activist working on the nation's largest Superfund Site, called the Tar Creek Superfund Site, in northeastern Oklahoma, when I hear Dennis Kucinich speak he says everything I long to hear from a Presidential candidate. I know he will reauthorize the Superfund so that citizens living around toxic waste sites will not have to wait on an act of Congress to get help. The law says that polluters should pay for the cleanup of these sites, however, the Congress, under Republican control, has changed the law, in effect, by failing to restore the fund (paid into by industry). Further, people of color and/or low income must doubly suffer because the current health care system leaves them out and is unresponsive to exposures to environmental pollutants. Dennis Kucinich will restore and strengthen our environmental laws while providing universal health care for all under his non-profit single payer system. No other candidate for President addresses these issues. Environmental justice, social justice, human rights, and health care are linked, and Dennis understands this."

[molly]

53. Dennis needs to go live there for 6 months

reality vs idealism....works every time.

1. Native Americans have access to free general health care

2. Catastrophic health care is provided free.

3. Regular dental services are free and things like braces and
false teeth are provided at actual lab costs.

4. Free eye exams and eye surgeries. Does not include cosmetic
surgeries like LASIK

5. Free eyeglasses for children through age 18.

6. HUD subsidized housing. Eligible for couples with children,
regardless of marriage orjust living together. One couple
with one child eligible for 2 bedroom one bath house for as
low as $ 39.00/month rent. The higher their income the more
they pay in rent. The highest house payment I have ever heard of was $ 440.00/month for a four bedroom two bath.

7. All renovations of houses are done through government grants.

8. When appliances go out i.e., refrigerator, stove, etc., they are replaced through grant money.

9. Banks will not write mortgages on Indian housing because only tribal members are allowed to own houses on the reservations. Thus, if someone defaulted on a note, the bank cannot seize the house. (That is why the Federal Govt. pays for remodeling and repairs, etc.)

10. The local tribes have federal money set aside that was given for property reimbursement years ago that is distributed to each tribal member upon their 18th birthday. The current sum is around $ 18,000 to each new adult.

11. Most tribes have Smoke Shops on their reservations where they can sell cigarettes without federal taxation. Profits from these are divided amongst the adult tribal members. In Nevada, they get around $ 1,000 each December.

12. When a Native American dies, the Bureau of Indian Affairs
provides $ 2,500 for burial expenses. This is a little better than the $ 255 that Social Security gives

[bigtree]

57. Small recompense for stolen land

Winona LaDuke:

"Native communities today face environmental threats on most of our reservations. Two-thirds of the uranium resources in the country are on Indian lands. One-third of all Western low sulfur coal. We have the single largest hydroelectric project on our lands, the James Bay project. We have nuclear waste dump proposals on reservations. Most of the mainstream environmental groups do not deal with those issues. They want to save this parcel or that parcel or fix this greenway. These issues are convenient to those groups. By and large they do not engage in building partnership with native communities or other communities of color."

Indian people are poor because of structural poverty. Structural poverty means you don’t actually control your land, your economy. We don’t have a multiplier. That is to say that a town like Boulder has a multiplier of seven. A dollar comes in and it’s spent over and over, unless you get a Wal-Mart, then you’re kind of screwed. Up in our reserva-tion, a dollar comes onto the reservation, it’s spent the next day in the border town, because we don’t have a retail sector. That’s structural poverty. You can’t fix that until you restructure your economy. You control your land and you control your economy. Land is the basis of political power. Why do you think the U.S. government is the largest landholder? If land wasn’t power they would have turned it all over, wouldn’t they?"

>>>>>

Standing Her Ground
Winona LaDuke is fighting the effects of colonialism and corporatism in her backyard.
by Lane Fisher

DOWN THE ROAD FROM A NEARBY "border town", is Winona LaDuke's home on White Earth Indian Reservation. Today Natives own just 10 percent of White Earth reservation. In the border towns surrounding it, they don't like hearing how most of the rest was stolen or swindled from the Indians, but federal investigators and the Minnesota Supreme Court have confirmed it.

How the land was taken and why little of it has reverted to Native ownership presents a thumbnail sketch of what Winona LaDuke calls colonial history--the process of moving Natives out of the way so that someone else can make money off their resources--in which governments and corporations continue to collude. And against the momentum of three hundred years, LaDuke works in every way she can to alter its direction. "Who should determine the health of our communities?" she asks. "It's not a Native American question, but an American question--a question of democracy."

LaDuke speaks nationally on Native and environmental issues and works globally as cofounder of the Indigenous Women's Network. But most of LaDuke's work takes place right here on "the rez." Through the White Earth Land Recovery Project (WELRP), she is raising money to buy back reservation lands, one parcel at a time, and launching programs to restore economic and cultural health to her community. She grapples with questions that trouble people everywhere: How do we relieve the poverty that surrounds us? How can we preserve our world for our grandchildren? How do we transform shame, ignorance, and animosity into healthy energies in our communities? At White Earth, LaDuke answers with action.

IT ALL BEGINS WITH THE LAND. "We...are a forest people, meaning that our creation stories, instructions, and culture, our way of life, are based in the forest, from our medicine plants to our food sources, from forest animals to our birchbark baskets," writes LaDuke. But near the turn of the last century, timber companies stripped the reservation of trees, and by 1934, 90 percent of the land itself was taken from the Anishinaabeg of White Earth (see sidebar). These losses preempted traditional ways and replaced them with poverty, economic dependency, and disease--and while tuberculosis and influenza take few lives today, depression, alcoholism, and diabetes take many.

IT TAKES METTLE to try to repair 150 years of damage to a community, although some see the solution as simple. LaDuke frequently hears that the Indians just need to "dry out" and go get jobs in the nearby french-fry plant. "It's not the answer," she says. "That's telling people they can be third-class citizens in someone else's world instead of first-class citizens in their own world."

http://www.hopemag.com/issues/2002/novDec/featuresaving.htm


"The Indians survived our open intention of wiping them out, and since the tide turned they have even weathered our good intentions toward them, which can be much more deadly"
-- John Steinbeck, from America and Americans

[DuctapeFatwa]

48. That's as much as Egypt gets! Almost as much as Israel!

Next thing you know they'll be wanting electricity out on the rez.

[bigtree]

49. Word

[arewethereyet]

50. what else would Dennis do but toe the party line ?

the ultra left is not Kerry's concern. The vast center is.

[revcarol]

51. Making the base enthusiastic and dying to get to the polls

is how Republicans win elections.

WE KUCITIZENS are part of the Democratic base. Just being anti-Bush isn't going to hack it with the average non-DU Democratic citizen because s/he sees the problem as too big, I can't do anything about it,what does my one vote mean...ad infinitum.

Kerry needs to get the base to the polls, 98% of the base. He isn't going to do it being cool and calm and thoughtful at great length. He's going to do it by activating all Democrats, his base. One example: if Kerry said, "We will withdraw from NAFTA and the WTO(Kucinich's position,) Kerry would have 100,000 UNION people out on the streets WORKING THEIR HEARTS OUT.Hell, I would work my heart out for him too, and I hate his IWR,Patriot Act, and NCLB votes.

This is why he needs to listen to Dennis and get together with him. Kerry needs to have ISSUES which will activate the base.

[eridani]

52. Dennis can't herd cats any better than anyone else

His supporters are behind him because they have never heard a populist platform from a Democrat since FDR. Some will follow his lead and support the nominee, and others will fade away.

If Kerry wants disaffected voters, he needs Kucinich supporters. He already has Kucinich according to public statements made so far.

[zulchzulu]

54. Sharpton has more delegates than Kucinich

What about Al? He's got more votes and delegates than Kucinich. If Kucinich is such a stud, why did he get such small numbers in his own state?

Although I'm not a big fan of Kucinich, I like his fans generally. But it's time for a little, teensy, weensy reality check.

[gate of the sun]

55. well this is one place big tree I can agree with you on

thank you!

[lams712]

56. Damn straight!!!!

Kerry needs to learn from Al Gore's and the DLC's mistakes. YOU CANNOT TAKE THE PROGRESSIVE WING FOR GRANTED!!!. It's that simple. Pres. Bush "won" with only 48% of the vote. If there was better unity on the left, Al Gore would be president today.