Revisiting Kerry: Kerry supporters please post here why you support JK.

[mzmolly]

Do you feel passionate about JK? And if so, what is it about this man that makes you feel passionate about him?

I'm not looking to debate, I am simply re-examining him myself.

Non Kerry supporters, please refrain from debate here. I've looked at all the negative on John Kerry one can imagine. I've researched every negative piece of shill there is on Mr. K, I'm now examining the other side... ;)

I am interested in learning about the positive and trying to gain a new and possibly objective view of the man.

:hi:

Graci'

PS. Adding I'd prefer to hear it in your own words... Thanks.

[sangh0]

1. Best qualified to investigate BFEE crimes

With his experience as a prosecutor and his experiences investigating various aspects of the BFEE (Iran/Contra, BCCI, etc) Kerry is the one person on this planet best qualified to investigate BFEE crimes

[mzmolly]

3. Do you feel he will make this a priority?

?

[sangh0]

6. I don't know

I can't read minds or predict the future, so I just don't know what Kerry will do if elected. In that respect, I only have two comments

1) Kerry is the most qualified to do this. There are people who, even if they wanted to do this, are not capable of doing so. Kerry is capable of doing. I just can't say that he will

2) IMO, the best way to predict someone's future behavior is to look at their past behavior. In the past, Kerry hasn't shied from investigating BFEE crimes. This doesn't mean that he will continue to do so in the future. It just provides a reason to think that he will, while there is no reason to think that he won't, as far as I know.

[sangh0]

2. Kerry's energy plan is revolutionary

If implemented, Kerry's plan would fundamentally reshape our economy, our military, and the political system. No longer reliant on non-sustainable sources of energy, our foriegn policies would not require that we insure "stability" by oppressing millions of brown-skinned people

[mzmolly]

4. Can you provide more information?

It sounds like the plan many of our Dems have in place, and that's another thing that sets them apart from the Rethugo-s.

[sangh0]

7. Try Kerry's website

He has a lot of info on energy there. Also do some Goggle searches. Kerry has given many speches over the years on how a sound energy policy would affect all sorts of areas.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

69. Two things distinguish Kerry's energy plan from other Dems.

One it the importance he places on it, the central position it holds in his priorities, and the way he makes it clear that it is not just about the environment, or oil supply, but will simultaneously make our planet, greener, our nation more secure, and provide jobs -- a vision of where we should be going.

The other is the fact that Kerry actually has a funding mechanism for encouraging the development of alternative energies and conservation - an ‘Energy Security and Conservation Trust’ bankrolled by existing leases on oil and natural gas - lease fees that the Bush administration is proposing to eliminate, by the way.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/energy/plan.html

[mzmolly]

73. Thanks I'll check it out

very soon.

[JI7]

5. it's incredible, he has been on the issue for decades

the environment is one kerry's big things. he understands the connection of alternative sources of energy and the economy in terms of jobs, and national security.

[sangh0]

8. Yes, IMO it's his best selling point

Kerry really gets it on energy. If this were all Kerry were able to do in four years as President, I'd be close to pleased.

[AntiCoup2K4]

12. Three words : PNAC'er Will Marshall

as long as he is writing Kerry's foreign policy, it will only be "cosmetically" different from Bush's.

[Evil_Dewers]

16. Why can't Kerry determine his own foreign policy?

Kerry isn't retarded like el Shrubo. Kerry doesn't need to be told what to think or say or do.

Howard Dean would not like the fact that you hold Kerry in so much contempt. You should reserve your PNAC rants for pricks who are actually in power--Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice, etc...

[AntiCoup2K4]

21. And if PNAC'ers are advising Kerry, who do you think he would choose?

Remember, Kerry is already on record as saying he would consider nominating the Bush Criminal Empire's own election fixer James Baker to his cabinet.

[Evil_Dewers]

24. Kerry is already on record

Source?

[sangh0]

27. He has no source

It's made up out of thin air

[Evil_Dewers]

39. He has no source

That's what I thought.

[BL_Zebub]

56. Like HELL it is!

"thin air", my pointy tailed ass! :grr:

Kerry said he would consider appointing former US secretary of state James Baker as the new Middle East envoy, whom the senator described as a ''presidential ambassador'' who would report directly to him and to Kerry's secretary of state. The Baker proposal drew an unsolicited response from a spokesman for a rival Democrat, retired general Wesley K. Clark, who said Baker's assistance to George W. Bush during the 2000 Florida presidential vote count should disqualify him for a role in a Democratic administration. Kerry spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter dismissed that criticism, saying ''national security should trump party politics given the threats we face today.'' - Boston Globe

Also, here's another connection between Baker and Kerry's current "team":

Consider Kerry's foreign policy advisers. Ask the candidate's supporters, and the advisor they mention first is Joe Wilson, the Clinton-era National Security Council member who investigated claims that Saddam Hussein was trying to buy weapons-grade uranium from Niger. Wilson won battle stars from progressives for going public with his findings, which contradicted the Bush administration's claims. Wilson's wife, CIA agent Valerie Plame, was outed by a White House source or sources as a consequence.

Wilson may be a white hat, but it's hard to say the same about Richard Morningstar, Rand Beers and William Perry, three other members of Kerry's foreign policy team.

Morningstar, a former advisor to President Clinton on Caspian energy, was instrumental in pushing for the controversial Baku-Tiblisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline. The plan has strong support on both sides of the political aisle.

A consortium of oil companies are deeply invested, including Britain's BP, and the U.S. firms Unocal and Amerada Hess. In the 1990s, the Clinton administration did all it could to clear the way for BTC, including extending U.S. Export-Import Bank financing, and recruiting Dick Cheney, James Baker and others to lobby local governments. James Baker's law firm, Baker Botts, represents BP. Dick Cheney's Halliburton, an oil-industry supplier, won the contract to build refineries for several Caspian states. As a member of its Board of Directors, Condoleezza Rice helped negotiate Chevron's deal to drill the Caspian's purportedly richest field, the Tengiz. - http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9966

So while Ralph Nader might have made a serious error in saying there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between Bush & Gore, that characterization is much closer to reality in a comparison of Bush & Kerry.

[sangh0]

60. Special envoy is not Cabinet level

.

[Evil_Dewers]

62. So while Ralph Nader might have made a serious error in saying there

wasn't a dime's worth of difference between Bush & Gore, that characterization is much closer to reality in a comparison of Bush & Kerry.

---

Fuck Ralph Nader and whatever he says. The man has destroyed his reputation of 45 years of good work just in the last four years.

It is like the man's trying not to get into heaven, if the Jews even believe in heaven. I actually don't know if Jewish people believe in heaven or hell.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Andromeda]

135. Nader isn't Jewish...

I believe he is Lebanese.

[AntiCoup2K4]

106. Just to add to what his unholiness said here.....

...for those who might not have made the connection, the Baku-Tiblisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline referenced above is the one which the Taliban signed the contracts for in 1997 and were supposed to have begun construction on by the time Junior assumed his stolen office. The fact that the Taliban didn't hold up there end of the deal is the real reason for the bombing of Afghanistan, the plans for which were on Junior's desk well in advance of the "new PERLE Harbor".

Now why would Kerry want to associate himself with people like this? It's very troubling, and it only adds to the assertion that he's literally Bush-Lite, tied to the same criminals that Junior is.

[Evil_Dewers]

109. Bash Kerry, bash Kerry, bash Kerry...

Dean was Bush lite on the issue of guns. Actually, Dean is Bush heavy on guns.

But Dean is a librul. LOL.

[MrPeepers]

25. That doesn't mean Kerry can't craft his own policy.

It's a crossing-the-aisle thing to make peace with the right wing. Kerry has the experience to make the decisions for himself- because he's considered nominating James Baker does not mean James Baker becomes the central figure in a Kerry Administration.

Peepers

[Evil_Dewers]

37. The topic of this thread is Kerry supporters, why do you support him?

Then a Yeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrggghhhhhh!!!! Deaniac chimes in with crap about why the Deaniac hates Kerry (PNAC, Howard Baker, Skull and Bones).

[BL_Zebub]

67. Well, it seems that so few Kerry supporters were giving reasons anyway....

...so what the HELL, right?

[mzmolly]

74. Didn't you claim just last week to be a "Deaniac"

could swear you did. :shrug:

I prefer "Dean supporter" for the record...

[Evil_Dewers]

108. I was a Deaniac.

Until he quit after the Wisconsin primary.

The question is "why are you still a Dean supporter?" Are you still a Carter/Mondale/Dukakis/Tsongas/Hart/Gephardt/Gore supporter--because none of those men are running for president.

[mzmolly]

116. Frankly, I dont believe for one second you supported Dean.

However, I will be a "Dean Supporter" for the rest of my life. Im still a Wellstone supporter as well..

Uhm, if you have a problem with that, tough shit. ;)

Kerry has my vote in November, but Dean still has my passion sorry if that troubles you.

[Evil_Dewers]

124. Frankly, I don't believe...

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn (what you believe).

I was a Wellstone supporter, until he was murdered by the GOP.

[mzmolly]

126. Well.. you can continue to support Paul Wellstone and his legacy

here... www.wellstone.org

I will continue to support Dean, Wellstone and many other Progressives and pragmatists who speak for me and with me.

Dean will announce his intentions for Dean For America on 3/18/2004. As a "former" Dean supporter, perhaps you'll be interested in learning that OUR work is not done?

Cheerio! :hi:

[Evil_Dewers]

128. As a "former" Dean supporter

Dean and Trippi need to get their fucking acts together.

Only one progressive organization (either DFA or CFA) is needed, thank you, not two complementary ones (both of which are broke) to confuse the hell out of the already confused Deaniacs.

Oh, I'm sick of you and maxanne insinuating that I twernt (sic) a Dean supporter 't all. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

[mzmolly]

130. Actually I could give a rip about CFA. I wasn't a Trippi supporter.

Now back to the subject matter.

JOHN KERRY

[JI7]

9. the supreme court

john kerry has said the justices he appoints to the united states supreme court must support roe v wade. if democrats can get enough left leaning justices on there we can protect separation of church and state, gay rights, women's rights, etc for years to come.if not, i really believe we will lose many of those rights. this is actually the top issue why i always said iw ill vote for democratic candidate in 2000 and 2004 no matter who the candidate was.

[saltpoint]

10. Kerry has history books on his shelf.

Bush can't read.

That's a passionate issue for me.

I'm supporting the challenger over the incumbent.

[molly]

11. Because he's a winner and your guy is NOT

how's that?

[AntiCoup2K4]

13. It's a typical answer from you

But it explains nothing. Do you have valid reasons for supporting Kerry, or not?

Let me rephrase that. You are one of the biggest Kerry cheerleaders on this board. Surely there must be something behind that, other than the illusion of "electability"? So, convince us how great Kerry is. Without slamming Dean, Kucinich, Clark, etc.

[Evil_Dewers]

Dedicated to the whining, bitter, sore loser crybabies

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=432396#432591

EarlG ADMIN (1000+ posts) Thu Mar-04-04 10:44 AM
Response to Original message

23. Just a few points


He is not going to get us out of Iraq.

"We owe this kind of internationalism first of all to our troops. Today American soldiers in Iraq fear getting shot while getting a drink of water. They wonder whether the old station wagon driving toward their checkpoint will explode when it gets there. For their sake, we must put aside arrogance and swagger and enlist other countries to share the burden and the authority in Iraq so that we get the targets off the back of our soldiers."

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_1216.html

He isn't going to cut these crippling levels of military spending.

"Kerry Strongly Supported the Military, Introduced a Plan to Reduce the Deficit Without Sacrificing Military - John Kerry has always supported the US. Military—apart from his two tours in U.S. Navy in Vietnam, Kerry has repeatedly supported military budgets and military construction. In contrast to an Administration that has turned the largest surplus in history into a $455 billion deficit, John Kerry was also willing to take the tough steps to reduce budget deficits. Kerry’s legislation, the Deficit Reduction Act of 1993, sought to cut wasteful spending including “wasteful defense programs” as Kerry stated in the Congressional Record. Like many other broad-based deficit reduction packages, Kerry’s bill took funding away from wasteful spending on pork barrel items and expensive space programs which have little benefit to the nation and transfers those saving to the general treasury to produce a balanced budget and a better economy for the country."

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0129f.html

He won't give tax relief to working families.

"George W Bush has chosen tax cuts for the wealthy and special favors for the special interests over our economic future. John Kerry’s priority will be middle class families who are working hard to cover the mortgage, pay the high cost of health care, child care and tuition, or just trying to get ahead."

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/index.html

He won't ask corporations so fairly shoulder more of the burden of taxation.

"John Kerry has the courage to roll back Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans so we can invest in education and healthcare. He isn’t afraid to crack down on corporations that are hiding their money in Bermuda to avoid paying their fair share and will end special tax giveaways to companies that ship jobs abroad."

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/index.html

He won't ask those who have benefitted most from two decades of Republican deficit spending and the six trillion dollar debt it created to help pay it back.

"Stop Giving Government Contracts to Corporations Breaking the Rules. John Kerry will also make sure the Federal government does not give lucrative contracts to companies that have a record of accounting fraud – like WorldCom – or are moving offshore."

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/outsourcing.html

He won't stem the hemhorraging of jobs through NAFTA and outsourcing.

"End Every Single Tax Credit That Gives Corporations Breaks for Moving "Jobs Offshore. John Kerry will close every single loophole that gives companies incentives to move jobs abroad, including stopping American companies from setting up virtual headquarters in foreign countries just to avoid paying U.S. taxes and stop tax breaks for companies that move jobs abroad."

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/outsourcing.html

He won't fix education.

"John Kerry believes that we need to invest in our schools instead of giving tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans."

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/education /

"It’s time to stop sending new mandates from Washington to school districts without providing the necessary resources needed to carry out those new rules. That’s why John Kerry is proposing a new ‘Education Trust Fund’ that means fully funding education, no questions asked."

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/education /

Detailed Plan to Strengthen Public Schools

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/100days/education.html

He won't end the Patriot Act.

"The Patriot Act took some important steps against terrorism in the wake of September 11th, including increasing information sharing among law enforcement and creating important tools and mechanisms to cut off terrorist financing. However the spirit of the law has been abused by the Ashcroft Justice Department, which has taken every opportunity to limit freedom and civil liberties. Given these abuses, John Kerry believes it is necessary to scale back several provisions in the Patriot Act to assure our enhanced security does not come at the expense of our civil liberties."

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/100days/civil_liberties.html

He won't fix global warming.

"Kerry Leads the Charge to Fight Global Warming – Kerry’s work for the environment includes significant efforts to fight global warming. Kerry introduced the “Global Climate Change Act of 2001” to “speed national action to address global climate change.” Kerry also successfully attached an amendment to the 2001 Bush budget package to “reduce greenhouse gas emissions, address global climate change concerns, protect global environment, promote domestic energy security and to provide increased funding for voluntary programs that will reduce greenhouse gas emissions.” <107th Congress, S.1716, S. Amdt. 249>"

http://www.johnkerry.com/communities/enviros/record.html

"Throughout his career, John Kerry has been a top leader on the environment, fighting to clean up toxic waste sites, to keep our air and water clean, and to protect the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and other pristine wilderness areas."

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/energy /

He won't invest to end our dependence on foriegn oil.

"John Kerry has outlined a comprehensive energy plan that will tap America’s initiative and ingenuity to strengthen our national security, grow our economy, and protect our environment. Kerry’s plan will increase and enhance domestic energy sources and provide incentives to help Americans use energy more cleanly and efficiently. When sixty-five percent of the world’s oil reserves lie beneath the Persian Gulf states and only 3 percent lie beneath America, we cannot drill our way to independence. We can, however, develop and deploy clean energy technologies that will make us more efficient and allow us to capitalize on domestic and renewable sources of energy."

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/energy /

He won't fix Social Security.

"John Kerry unveiled his “Compact with the Greatest Generation,” a guarantee that will give seniors the protection they have earned for Social Security and Medicare, helps seniors afford their medicine, and ensure long-term care."

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/seniors /

Ken Lay will still be free, rich and powerful.

"Senator John Kerry said on Thursday that he would crack down on abuses in the mutual fund industry if elected president and called for expanding the antiracketeering laws to fight a "new age of organized crime that comes from corporate offices."

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2003_1212c.html

He won't fix urban sprawl.

"Promoting Smart Growth and Livable Communities
John Kerry recognizes that local communities are struggling with how to address issues of traffic congestion and sprawl. A Kerry Administration will work with states and communities to ensure they have the tools and resources they need to tackle these difficult problems. Kerry will ensure that we have “Clean and Green Communities” throughout America by coordinating federal transportation policies, federal housing incentives, federal employment opportunities and the use of federal dollars to acquire parks and open space."

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/sprawl /

[dsc]

28. Do you honestly think your done does anything to get people to

vote for, or want to work for Kerry? Pretend for just one second, that the person you are addressing doesn't think Kerry walks on water or that Bush personifies evil because, believe it or not, there is a substantial percentage of the country which falls into one of those two categories. Do you honestly think your tone in this post did even one thing to get a person to vote for Kerry who does belong to one or both categories? I sincerely hope this isn't the way you intend to speak to potential voters on the phone or in letters.

[Evil_Dewers]

54. sincerely hope this isn't the way you intend to speak to potential voters

Here's how I intend to speak to them:

Yearrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

Vote for Kerry! Bush blows.

Yearrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

That should win 'em over. It worked for Dean.

[mzmolly]

76. You are doing Kerry a disservice by bringing insults to Dean.

May I ask why YOU feel the need to bring up Dean (in a derogatory manner) in this thread?

Start another thread if you want to trash Dean. I've got no time for it HERE.

[Evil_Dewers]

105. YOU feel the need to bring up Dean

Because Dean took my time, my money and my vote, managed to blow $40 million, ended up $400,000 in the red, and is still pleading with his supporters (Deanbots) to retire his campaign debt, broke my heart and pissed me off by running the worst campaign in modern history, and was forced to quit because he was broke and had little support.

Dean pissed me off, so I dropped him like a cannonball. Gary Hart ran a better campaign than Dean, and that is fucking sad.

And I'm sick of all the whining from the dead enders who actually think Dean is still running or claim, "Well, Kerry doesn't actually have the nomination yet."

Either you want Bush out of the White House or you don't.

If you aren't part of the solution, quit being part of the problem and please STFU.

Thank you.

[mzmolly]

117. Nope, YOU and others brought up Dean. NOT ME.

Regarding Dean (blowing your money) did you tell him their were strings attached when you donated to his campaign?

If you donate to Kerry will you DEMAND he beat Bush or ask for a refund?

FOR THE RECORD: I'M ABB AND MAKE NO FUCKING BONES ABOUT IT!

Now, take your steriotypical Dean supporter insults somewhere else buddy. I've got no time for them.

If I dont respond to your venomous posts going forward it's because I'm checking out some of the features here at DU.

[Evil_Dewers]

125. Regarding Dean (blowing your money) did you tell him their were strings

I expected him to run a good campaign. Dean ran an incredibly lousy campaign. Sure, the media treated him like crap, but Dean gave them the rope to hang him. Dean ran an inept, amateurish campaign.

Since when is the truth venomous?

[mzmolly]

129. I disagree with your characterization of Dean campaign EVIL.

IMO, he ran an amazing campaign. But once again, this thread is about John Kerry. Anything meaningful to add?

If not, buh bye now. :hi:

[Evil_Dewers]

131. No, he ran a lousy campaign.

Trippi was a great fundraiser though--but it all went for naught.

The Iowa caucus system killed Dean. Dean supporters just weren't convincing.

Now, back to the subject at hand, John Kerry, there's a man with gravitas. He didn't go skiing (or AWOL from the guard) during the Vietnam war.

Kerry has written books. Bush almost finished a book but his dog ate his crayons and he was having trouble staying in the lines.

I'm sick of having a retard in the White House. Aren't you?

Let's restore honor, integrity and intelligence to the White House.

No more secrets, no more lies.

Vote Kerry November 2004.

[mzmolly]

75. I agree. sheesh!

:hi:

I asked for civil feedback for cripes sakes.

[molly]

43. I would never slam Clark or Edwards

[JI7]

15. please molly

i know you have reason to be upset considering some of the posts. but i do believe this person is being sincere , and this person while critical of kerry has always said they would support the democratic nominee and has said they will support and vote for kerry in november. this isn't an anti kerry post in any way.

[ibegurpard]

17. Typical

You really need to learn to be a little more discerning. This kind of a thread coming from me would probably warrant that stupid remark but coming from mzmolly it's probably sincere. Just keep pissing on potential allies. The only good thing that could possibly come from a Bush victory would be seeing the hopes of people like you crushed.

[Evil_Dewers]

32. The only good thing that could possibly come from a Bush victory

No, no good at all would come from a Bush victory.

Schadenfreude is for losers. I certainly didn't cheer when Dean went down in flames--since I voted for him.

Much of the vehemence at Kerry comes from Dean supporters. Ask yourself why.

[molly]

38. I am past the point of caring - yesterday was the final straw

on edit - it's the same way I felt last September after fighting the Deaniacs over the Philly cheesesteak. They are bullies and the NEVER let up.

Kerry is our candidate - get over it!

[dsc]

42. Please site, and I mean now

where I posted in either thread. I want a citation and not an excuse.

[molly]

44. You mean NOW? Get over yourself! and I mean NOW!

[dsc]

46. No you are blaming me and all Dean supporters for this conduct

you get up off your butt and either show where I did it or change your post. I am sick of your whiny ass tone.

[molly]

You jump all over Kerry supporters whenever you get the

opportunity. You get off your butt and do your own research - it's been HERE forever. Here's yesterday's thread....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=428703

[dsc]

50. You provided no author, no title, no time of posting,

and if you can find one, even one post, by me in that thread I will kiss your ass in Times Square as I hadn't even seen it.

[molly]

52. I never said it was "YOU" - read my post

[mzmolly]

79. The thread was NOT started by a Dean supporter.

so why the hell are you mentioning Dean and his supporters here!?

:wtf:

[molly]

90. Are you denying all of the anti-Kerry - Dean posts you've

made over the past couple of months? Just asking.....:shrug:

[mzmolly]

93. Well I think I may have made a few, but if I were denying it, I wouldn't

have mentioned it in my OP.

Read it won't you?

[molly]

96. Alrighty then - just a small example - want more?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=303985

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=262154.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=272754#276692

[mzmolly]

99. First of all the first two are unrelated to "anti-Kerryism" and second and

most importantly, I said I HAVE PISSED AND MOANED ABOUT KERRY.

And, I never even posted in the second thread you linked?

Again, read the fargen post(s) please...

[Evil_Dewers]

112. The thread was NOT started by a Dean supporter

mzmolly (1000+ posts) Thu Mar-04-04 02:18 PM
Original message
Revisiting Kerry: Kerry supporters please post here why you support JK.

Edited on Thu Mar-04-04 02:21 PM by mzmolly

Start Howard Dean avatar

End Howard the Duck Dean Avatar

Do you feel passionate about JK? And if so, what is it about this man that makes you feel passionate about him?

I'm not looking to debate, I am simply re-examining him myself.

Non Kerry supporters, please refrain from debate here. I've looked at all the negative on John Kerry one can imagine. I've researched every negative piece of shill there is on Mr. K, I'm now examining the other side...

I am interested in learning about the positive and trying to gain a new and possibly objective view of the man.



Graci'

PS. Adding I'd prefer to hear it in your own words... Thanks.

[mzmolly]

119. Wasn't referring too my thread EVIL. Read much?

If your going to post an obnoxious reply, it's good to have a grip on the subject matter mmmmk?

[mzmolly]

78. Thanks. It's almost like *they* dont want people to support John Kerry.

I mean, if these are my new comrades then I'm in deep shit.

[Evil_Dewers]

111. I mean, if these are my new comrades

Blah...blah...blah...

Vote for Dean. You can write in his name. Just STFU already.

Look at the public records of Howard Dean and John Kerry.

Wait, we can't look at all of Dean's public records because he pulled a Bush and locked them up.

Anyway, in looking at their policies, Kerry is far more liberal than Doc Dean.

But Dean was the superior candidate. Yeeeeeeearrrrrrghhhhh!

[Evil_Dewers]

113. It's almost like *they* dont want people to support John Kerry

Why do you still have a Howard Dean avatar?

I have a Pacers avatar, but that doesn't mean I'm voting for Ron Artest or Reggie Miller. I voted for Dean in the primary and will be voting for Kerry in the GE. Oh, and I only replaced my Howard Dean avatar with a Pacers avatar after Dean quit. Yeeeeeeeeeaarrrrgh.

Now, you claim Kerry has always had your vote, yet you still have a Howard Dean avatar and started a thread "re-examining Kerry."

So what is your motivation/objective here? To allow the Kerry bashers to assault this thread en masse? Because despite your "plea" above, they have infiltrated your "thoughtful" thread.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Evil_Dewers]

26. Perhaps molly sees this thread as just another bash Kerry

topic masked as a "serious questions" thread.

[dsc]

30. Then Molly and likely you

are looking through the bitter eyes that you possess. You can't point to a single word in this thread that isn't asking a legit question about Kerry. Too bad your bitter, partisan eyes cloud your vision.

[molly]

What about yesterday's 3 hour thread - weren't you

paying attention?

[dsc]

36. Maybe I wasn't here for it.

I do have a life you know. For the record I worked from 7 am to 4pm, tutored someone at 5pm to 6pm, then went to a Dean meet up, got home at 10pm and fell asleep exhausted at 11pm. I was maybe on the computer for a total of an hour and a half yesterday.

[mzmolly]

81. WTF does a thread yesterday have to do with mine?

NADA!

[sangh0]

35. I'd be careful about talking about "bitter eyes"

Your responses in this thread are not what I would call "warm and fuzzy"

[dsc]

40. ah too bad

It should be noted I didn't start it. I read here to find out why you people are passionate about Kerry and instead I find yet more insults of Dean. I guess you must think your candidate is pretty crappy if you can't ever say anything but Dean sucks as a reason to support Kerry.

[sangh0]

45. You see? Now there's the sweet side of dsc

"I didn't start it".

instead I find yet more insults of Dean

"Insult" not "insults". There was one, from molly.

. I guess you must think your candidate is pretty crappy if you can't ever say anything but Dean sucks as a reason to support Kerry.

Read the thread. I've said nothing about Dean in this thread.

The weakness of your point ("your candidate is pretty crappy if you can't ever say anything but Dean sucks") is underlined by the majority of posts, which contain nothing more than the reasons why people support Kerry. Most of the negativity is from anti-Kerry people who post nothing but their insults.

[dsc]

49. bull

There is one, count it one, post from a Dean supporter which in any way, shape, or form insults Kerry. Before that post was even posted Molly, as she always does, posted an insult of Dean. I have never, and I honestly mean never, seen a thread authored by her that is positive about Kerry. I even went so far as to ask her for one. She couldn't even produce it. Admittedly this has been several months ago and maybe she could find one now. I hope so.

[sangh0]

53. Please drop your obsession

I said nothing about the attacks coming from Dean supporters. You are obviously too emotional to comprehend the simplest of statements.

Before that post was even posted Molly, as she always does, posted an insult of Dean

And so it's OK for you to misportray this thread as having multiple attacks on Dean when the truth is that there was only one?

I have never, and I honestly mean never, seen a thread authored by her that is positive about Kerry

Then send her a nasty PM, and walk around with a frown. Do you really think I care about her posting history? Take your personal animosity somewhere else.

[mzmolly]

82. There are several insults to Dean here, as I am just reading now..

I am very sorry to say...

[sangh0]

110. Me too

but you should also note the number of Dean supporters who dropped in to post insults. It's not a one-way street here, and for every anti-Dean poster in this thread, there's also an anti-Kerry poster. I point this out as an explanation, and not an excuse for the Dean insults.

[mzmolly]

118. I understand what your saying sang0, but this thread is about "Kerry"

it's not about Dean.

[Evil_Dewers]

51. You can't point to a single word in this thread that isn't asking a legit

Yes I can.

From

AntiCoup2k (1000+ posts)

HOWARD DEAD SUPPORTER

21. And if PNAC'ers are advising Kerry, who do you think he would choose?


Remember, Kerry is already on record as saying he would consider nominating the Bush Criminal Empire's own election fixer James Baker to his cabinet.

---

If it is on DailyKos, Newschmucks or WorldNutDaily, it must be true.

[dsc]

55. I should have typed title post

Oh and her post was way, way before post 21.

[mzmolly]

80. Perhaps your fu*king wrong ... AGAIN

This is not a masked thread, it was a sincere effort to find out more about John Kerry.

Thanks to the few Kerry supporters who contributed meaningfully.

I must say I am disgusted by the remarks of some of your peers here.

[sangh0]

29. real classy. dsc

.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

41. Lectures coming from me?

That wasn't a lecture. It was a very short observation. In another post in this thread, you ask Evil_dewars if his behavior is effective. If you are truly upset by the tone of some posts, you might want to consider if the tone you're using will be effective in gaining the effects you desire.

I, on the other hand, are not upset by the tone.

[molly]

33. Perhaps I am getting sick and f'n tired of you people

and your hidden agendas. Maybe not so "hidden", but it's getting really old - really fast. This has been going on FOREVER.

[mzmolly]

84. I have no HIDDEN agenda. And it is *I* who started the thread.

Your posts have not added one thing of value to my recollection EVER.

I will give you a chance to redeem yourself here.

Why do YOU support John Kerry? If you can't answer that, perhaps it expains your desire to chalk it up to a hidden agenda? It's easier than thinking isn't it?

[mzmolly]

72. nah nah nah nah nah...

How's that? :eyes:

Good grief.

[molly]

77. The real you has arrived

[mzmolly]

87. The REAL me? That's funny....

No it was the me who responded to YOU.

I am always REAL for the record. Now unless you can answer my question, I respectfully ask you to leave this thread. Your not helping anyone with your sarcastic, rude and shallow replies.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

86. There certainly are better ways of expressing your enthusiasm

than that.

[mzmolly]

88. I haven't seen ANY from certain people.

:shrug: EVER...

[BOSSHOG]

14. He's a Veteran

who had the testicular fortitude to fight the enemy; to be shot at and shoot back. He also had the balls to oppose the war in which he fought. Does anyone think that Senator Kerry considers karl rove a threat? What I offer is not new but it sure as hell is objective.

May I offer a tougher challenge for you MZMOLLY? Search for the positive of george bush. I'd rather not be jacked around by posters who have to be convinced not to vote for bush. I spent 24 years in uniform - read my gravitas - VOTE FOR KERRY.

[sangh0]

19. Not just a veteran. A genuine hero

who risked his life to save others.

Last week I read about a little known bit of Kerry bravery. His boat was patrolling a river when he noticed some piles of dirt alongside the river. The crew called out to see if anyone was hiding behind the small hills of dirt. No one responded. The crew, fearing an ambush, wanted to leave, but Kerry insisted on getting closer. Once they reached the shore, they saw dozens of defenseless unarmed civilians hiding in the holes. Kerry loade them onto his boat and brought them back to the base for medical care and protection

[mzmolly]

89. John Kerry has ALWAYS had my vote. I would simply perfer to be a bit

moved about it.

[MrPeepers]

20. I'm extremely passionate about John Kerry.

Something about Senator Kerry has always attracted me. He doesn't get up and yell and wave his arms around and jump up and down, but he has conviction, he has passion, he clearly believes in what he is doing. He has a sophisticated passion, you might say. I know a lot of people are attracted by a President who's more of an "average Joe," but I believe the President shouldn't be just another guy. The President should be President because he is the best, in my estimation. There's an amts charisma that surrounds the office, and the person who holds it should fit into that. I think Kerry does. But far more important than that is that I really do believe Kerry can move our country in the right direction. He's liberal, not outrageously so, but liberal. He is going to push for what this country needs in pieces that aren't too much for it to handle. If we want to really reform our country, we have to do it a piece at a time, and I think he understand that. Kerry wants full health coverage for everyone, but he understands that we can't do it overnight. He wants equality, but he understand that it's going to take gradual legislative pressure to overturn the long history of social injustice that is ground deep into our culture. In other words, I believe in Senator Kerry to do what needs to be done to move the United States in the direction it needs to go in. He has the experience to handle international relations, he has the experience to handle domestic affairs. He has the passion, the intelligence, and the expertise to take on the problems and issues of our day, and overcome them. That's why I'm passionate about John Kerry.

Peepers

[adadem]

66. Perfect. I second this post.

I trust John Kerry, always have. He's a thinker. He's smart.

As Peepers said:
I believe in Senator Kerry to do what needs to be done to move the United States in the direction it needs to go in. He has the experience to handle international relations, he has the experience to handle domestic affairs

[Feanorcurufinwe]

83. Great post MrPeepers!

[mzmolly]

92. I wouldn't support anyone who jumped up and down waving his arms...

either...

As for the rest of your comments Thank YOU! :hi:

[gottaB]

22. many reasons

use the search feature here if you want my supporting arguments:

1. Kerry's the best for curbing global warming, protecting the environment.

2. Justices. I want more than assurances that a judicial appointee will not be an ideological kook. Kerry will make the wisest appointments.

3. Non-profileration of nukes.

4. Like actually using the State Dept. to advance our interests and reduce conflict.

5. Promotion of science. The arts too, but the sciences are under seige from the right and need a champion in the White House.

6. Jobs creation. I believe Kerry's proposals will lead to more jobs being created, and people being paid better wages too. I expect prosperity under his administration. I view his health care plan as part of that.

7. Constitutional government, the rule of law. Kerry's views on civil liberties and the limits of government power come very close to my own, and suggest that he can be trusted to weild power with due restraint. You must look beyond his vote for USA PATRIOT to see this, but if you do you will recognize a person who respects differences and will not use the powers he's been given to muzzle or restrain those who differ from him.

8. He's a decent fellow. Likes poetry and motorcycles and music and hockey. He pursues what interests him, whether that's highly intellectual or physical, and he doesn't seem to be conforming to any type or label. That counts for something.

9. I forget what 9 is for.

[blm]

59. Because no lawmaker alive has exposed more govt. corruption than Kerry.

That matters to longtime BFEE watchers like me who CARE about government corruption being uprooted...FINALLY.

His plan to build our national security and economic security around GLOBAL and environmental concerns is a HUGE plus, too.

[mzmolly]

94. Thanks...

:)

[bigtree]

23. John Kerry’s Long History Supporting the Environment

John Kerry’s Long History Supporting the Environment

Kerry Spoke at First Earth Day in Massachusetts 33 Years Ago – Senator John Kerry, having returned from service in Vietnam, spoke at the first Earth Day in Massachusetts on April 22, 1970. “Kerry, who gave some of the first speeches of his career at Boston’s first Earth Day in 1970, said he has seen much improvement in the environment since then: less lead pollution, a cleaner Charles River and Boston Harbor, and a vanishing threat of extinction to gray whales and bald eagles.”

Kerry’s Fight Against Acid Rain Goes Back More Than 20 Years — As Lt. Governor of Massachusetts, Kerry co-chaired the 1983 Acid Rain Task Force and issued the "Call for Action ," saying," ‘Today we are releasing what we believe to be the most comprehensive analysis of the damage caused by acid rain in this country,’ Kerry declared on the Statehouse steps.”

In his year first year in the Senate, John Kerry introduced the National Acid Rain Control Act in order to improve standards for clean air and establish a fund to finance emission reductions. Later Kerry called for Senate hearings into the global impact of Acid Rain and criticized the Reagan Administration for its weak commitment to end acid rain.

Kerry Worked to Strengthen the Clean Air Act– John Kerry has worked to strengthen the Clean Air Act and was an instrumental leader in fighting the first Bush Administration’s attempts to weaken it. Kerry also pushed legislation to create stronger “anti-smog” regulations and promote cleaner air. <101st Congress, S. 57, S.Amdt.1348; Boston Globe, 4/29/90>

Kerry Leads the Charge to Fight Global Warming – Kerry’s work for the environment includes significant efforts to fight global warming. Kerry introduced the “Global Climate Change Act of 2001” to “speed national action to address global climate change.” Kerry also successfully attached an amendment to the 2001 Bush budget package to “reduce greenhouse gas emissions, address global climate change concerns, protect global environment, promote domestic energy security and to provide increased funding for voluntary programs that will reduce greenhouse gas emissions.” <107th Congress, S.1716, S. Amdt. 249>

Kerry Worked to Guarantee Clean and Safe Drinking Water - John Kerry worked to guarantee cleaner and safer drinking water by strengthening the Safe Drinking Water Act, and fought efforts to weaken it.

In 1996, the Kerry Amendment to the budget resolution ensured “protection in the quality of our water.” Most recently Kerry voiced his strong opposition to President Bush’s attempt to rollback drinking water standards for arsenic. More recently, Kerry criticized President George W. Bush and his EPA report on the environment stating that Bush's policies have "gutted important provisions of the Clean Water Act." <104th Congress, S.Amdt. 3990; Associated Press, 6/23/03>

Kerry is the Senate Leader in Protecting Marine Mammals – John Kerry, a member of the Oceans and Fisheries subcommittee, authored the Marine Mammal Protection Act Amendments of 1994 that was later signed into law by President Clinton.

In 1990, Kerry authored the Driftnet Act Amendments of 1990/Fishery Conservation Amendments of 1990 in an effort to preserve marine mammal population. “In what its sponsor calls a major reform of the nation's fishing laws, legislation banning the use of drift nets that threaten marine mammals was approved by the Senate Commerce Committee...” <103rd Congress, S. 1636, PL103-238; 101st Congress, S. 1025; Boston Globe, 5/23/90>

League of Conservation Voters: Kerry’s Leadership “Unsurpassed” – “Kerry’s exceptional lifetime score of 96 percent on LCV’s National Environmental Scorecard and his unsurpassed leadership on clean air, safe drinking water, and open space issues make him an invaluable environmental leader in Congress.”

Today, Kerry Continues His Fight for Better Environments
Kerry Has Highest LCV Rating of Any Presidential Candidate – John Kerry has long been noted as a leading advocate for the environment and, according to the League of Conservation Voters’ annual Scorecard, John Kerry has the highest career rating of any of the Presidential candidates.

Senator Kerry’s 96.5% is tops amongst the seven candidates rated by the LCV.

Kerry & McCain Work for Higher CAFE Standards – Kerry teamed with John McCain to propose an historic increase in the nation’s fuel efficiency standards. The measure, strongly opposed by President Bush and the automotive industry, would substantially increase the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards while both improving the environment and lessening America’s dependency on foreign oil. “Kerry, McCain propose new fuel rules--Automakers fight increased standards--U.S. Sens. John Kerry and John McCain have reached a joint proposal to increase the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards to 36 miles per gallon by 2015 from the current fleet average of 24 m.p.g.”

LCV Congratulates Kerry on His “Courage” to be the First Senator to Oppose the Nomination of Gail Norton as Secretary of the Interior – Kerry was lauded by the League of Conservation Voters for his “courage” to be the first Senator to oppose the nomination of Gail Norton as Secretary of the Interior.

“From his commitment to filibuster drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to his courage as the first Senator to oppose Gale Norton's nomination as Secretary of the Interior…John Kerry has proven his clear commitment to protecting America’s environment through bipartisan action, not mere rhetoric.”

Kerry Was a Leader in Senate Filibuster to Stop Drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge – Kerry along with other environmental leaders in the Senate led the fight against Republican attempts to open the Artic National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling. "This is a national treasure," said Sen. John Kerry, one of the Democrats who successfully blocked attempts to lift the drilling ban last year.”

Kerry Earns “Friend of the National Parks Award” – John Kerry scored a perfect 100% on the 107th Congress scorecard from the National Parks Conservation Association and earned a “Friend of National Parks” award.

Kerry is Holding the Bush Administration Responsible for Their Environmental Misdeeds - John Kerry is holding the Bush Administration responsible for their poor environmental record and during a recent committee hearing in the Senate said, “the administration was not doing enough to reduce emissions and fight global warming. He criticized the administration for claiming the science on the cause of global warming was unclear and using that as an excuse for not tackling the problem.”

Kerry & LCV Worked Together to Protect the Environment in Global Trade Agreements – Kerry and the LCV worked together to strengthen our nation’s commitment to the global environment by advising members and other Congressional offices of the importance of Kerry’s amendment to the Trade Promotion Authority bill. “LCV urges you to support an amendment to the Baucus (D-MT) trade promotion authority bill (H.R. 3009) sponsored by Senator Kerry (D-MA) that will help ensure that trade agreements do not lead to continued assaults on environmental and public health protections… The Kerry amendment would require that investment provisions in future trade agreements be in accordance with the United States Constitution. In doing so, it would ensure that corporations do not receive rights that enable them to undermine our environmental laws, and those of other countries.


. . . and much more . . .

[graywarrior]

31. He shows strength

I support him because I'm originally from Boston. I was around when he participated in organizing Earth Day, I always admired his anti vietnam war activities. I think he's passionate in a stoic New England way about his beliefs. I think he can confuse the hell out of * in a debate and I can't wait to see it happen. He has a decent aura surrounding him. And I think if Dean or Edwards had won instead, he'd fight as hard as he could to help them get elected without showing resentment.

[THUNDER HANDS]

47. because he's the complete and utter opposite of Bush

Tall, smart, thoughtful, a leader.

Plus he's from the Northeast, what's not to love?

[Career Prole]

48. What some see as "flip-flopping"...

...I see as the ability (and necessarily of course the humility) to learn from experience and if need be from one's mistakes. Think how much better off we'd be if * had ever learned this, one of the most important of life's lessons...or how much better off we'd all be if everyone learned how to say "I was wrong. I won't do that again."

[mzmolly]

95. I agree with you here. Flip flopping or flexible?

My candidate was accused of the same so I take it with a grain of salt. Every one worth a shit in the wind evolves over time.

[zulchzulu]

57. Here's my take

This is from a few posts I've saved about why I like Kerry:

John Kerry answered his nation’s call and enlisted to fight and lead men in a dubious war in Vietnam rather than let someone else die in his place. The nation gave him the Silver Star, Bronze Star and 3 Purple Hearts for his bravery, service and sacrifice.

John Kerry followed his tour of military duty with a life of service, working to end the War in which he fought and leading a thank-less multi-decade effort to expose corruption in U.S. foreign policy, championing the environment, and pinch-hitting in the Senate for almost every cause that affected the lives of the poor and disenfranchised.

John Kerry voted for the Iraq war resolution because he believed it was the only way to force resolution of the Iraq tragedy by restarting the U.N. inspection process. He believed the President of the United States (and since regretted it) when he said that war would be “a last resort”. At the time of the vote, he gave a substantial, thoughtful speech on the Senate floor, Kerry said he would strongly opposed any unilateral movement to war and that he did not believe that Saddam’s threat was yet imminent. He kept is word and led opposition during the U.N. debates against Bush’s “rush to war,” inept foreign policy.

John Kerry’s military service, his two decades of participation in international diplomacy as a leader in the Senate and as a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, allows him challenge George Bush’s conduct of war and foreign policy in a post 9/11 world and prepares him to quickly re-direct U.S. policy upon being sworn into office.

John Kerry gets the best scores from independent groups for his environmental record and for issues affecting the working poor. For thirty years Kerry has fought for labor rights, women’s rights and campaign finance reform. Kerry’s record is solid on education and social security. Despite significant political cost, Kerry has opposed capital punishment, the NRA and all the fat-cat special interest lobby groups camped out in Washington.

Few senators have maintained a record so widely regarded as above reproach. John Kerry’s legendary indifference to special interest initiatives has been widely slammed as arrogance, aloofness and neglect of his “constituents.”

John Kerry has fought to expose covert government actions in South-East Asian and Nicaragua, for public disclosure of campaign financing and for the freedom of Information in the Nation’s capital.

Kerry has himself been a principal target of secret investigations carried out by the Nixon Administration in the 70's when Kerry lead the anti-war effort.

Kerry’s record of pubic service as a prosecutor, in State Government and as a senator is open to public scrutiny. Kerry made his private letters and notes written during his service in Vietnam available for examination by the historian Douglas Brinkley.

More reasons to like Kerry:

• Cosponsored Gramm-Rudman-Hollings bipartisan deficit reduction Act. (S.1702)
  
  
• Secured assistance for families of Agent Orange victims: Kerry cosponsored and worked to pass the Agent Orange Benefits Act to extend health care benefits to children of Vietnam Veterans who suffer from spina bifida. (1995 VA-HUD Approp)
  
  
• Passed international anti-money laundering law: John Kerry proposed and passed anti-money laundering amendment that forced negotiations with foreign banks to keep records of US currency transactions of $10,000 & up and established penalties for countries engaged in money laundering. (1988: S Amdt 3697, HR 5210, #374, passed 85-3)
  
  
• Introduced bill to significantly increase commitment to fighting HIV/AIDS: Kerry introduced, along with Senator Bill Frist (R-TN), the U.S. Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act (S.2525)
  
  
• Passed law addressing nurse shortage: Kerry introduced and passed the Nurse Reinvestment Act, to address the current shortage of Nurses in the medical profession. (S706)
  
  
• Expanded early childhood development efforts: Kerry introduced legislation to expand state and local early childhood development efforts, including education, child care and health care for children between birth and six years old. (S. 1068; H.R.5656, became Public Law 106-554)
  
  
• Strengthened protection of seals, dolphin, whales and other marine mammals: Kerry sponsored legislation that extended and strengthened laws protecting Marine Mammals from commercial fishing. (S. 1636, PL 103-238)
  
  
• Introduced plan that expanded childrens health insurance coverage: Kerry and Kennedy drafted an innovative plan to help states expand health care coverage for children in the 104th Congress (S 2186; 104th Congress)
  
  
• Instrumental in passing last minimum wage increase: Kerry was instrumental in passing the last increase in the minimum wage to $5.15 per hour in 1997. (S 1685; S.Amdt.3574 to H.R.1296)
  
  
• Led fight to defeat Republican regulatory reform that threatened to roll back environmental and safety regulations (Boston Globe, 10/14/1996)
  
  
• Led inquiry into savings and loan cleanup: Kerry conducted hearings into waste fraud and abuse in the RTC, the agency responsible for cleaning up the S&L scandal. (1993-94)
  
  
• Boosted COPS and Police Corps funding: Kerry successfully lobbied the Senate and the administration to move funding from $5.9 billion to $22.2 billion over four years, with the goal of putting 100,000 new cops on the street. (Roll Call, 11/11/1993)
  

[mzmolly]

97. Thanks. The toughest thing for me to reconcille is this...

"John Kerry voted for the Iraq war resolution because he believed it was the only way to force resolution of the Iraq tragedy by restarting the U.N. inspection process. He believed the President of the United States (and since regretted it) when he said that war would be “a last resort”. At the time of the vote, he gave a substantial, thoughtful speech on the Senate floor, Kerry said he would strongly opposed any unilateral movement to war and that he did not believe that Saddam’s threat was yet imminent. He kept is word and led opposition during the U.N. debates against Bush’s “rush to war,” inept foreign policy."

When asked about this question, he says there was a right way and a wrong way.

He still has my vote but it's a tough pill for me to swallow.

I think the war was a distraction from the Osama issue and others. It was also planned in advance of 911. I wish Kerry were more outspoken and I wish he openly regretted his vote for the IWR. This is the biggest reason I can't support him with the zeal I would like too.

I don't require a candidate to be super human, but I do want them to admit a mistake. I don't think he's taken responsibility for his vote, and I don't think he's called Bush on the war to the extent he should. I hope that changes?

[Career Prole]

121. I just read Kerry's speech again.

The speech in its entirety can be found here:
http://www.independentsforkerry.com/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html
I will vote yes because I believe it is the best way to hold Saddam Hussein accountable. And the administration, I believe, is now committed to a recognition that war must be the last option to address this threat, not the first, and that we must act in concert with allies around the globe to make the world's case against Saddam Hussein.

"Let me be clear, the vote I will give to the President is for one reason and one reason only: To disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, if we cannot accomplish that objective through new, tough weapons inspections in joint concert with our allies.
In giving the President this authority, I expect him to fulfill the commitments he has made to the American people in recent days--to work with the United Nations Security Council to adopt a new resolution setting out tough and immediate inspection requirements, and to act with our allies at our side if we have to disarm Saddam Hussein by force. If he fails to do so, I will be among the first to speak out.
If we do wind up going to war with Iraq, it is imperative that we do so with others in the international community, unless there is a showing of a grave, imminent--and I emphasize "imminent"--threat to this country which requires the President to respond in a way that protects our immediate national security needs."

"The administration may not be in the habit of building coalitions, but that is what they need to do. And it is what can be done. If we go it alone without reason, we risk inflaming an entire region, breeding a new generation of terrorists, a new cadre of anti-American zealots, and we will be less secure, not more secure, at the end of the day, even with Saddam Hussein disarmed.
Let there be no doubt or confusion about where we stand on this. I will support a multilateral effort to disarm him by force, if we ever exhaust those other options, as the President has promised, but I will not support a unilateral U.S. war against Iraq unless that threat is imminent and the multilateral effort has not proven possible under any circumstances. "

"The threat we face today with Iraq does not meet that test yet. I emphasize "yet." Yes, it is grave because of the deadliness of Saddam Hussein's arsenal and the very high probability that he might use these weapons one day if not disarmed. But it is not imminent, and no one in the CIA, no intelligence briefing we have had suggests it is imminent. None of our intelligence reports suggest that he is about to launch an attack."

"Congressional action on this resolution is not the end of our national debate on how best to disarm Iraq. Nor does it mean we have exhausted all of our peaceful options to achieve this goal. There is much more to be done. The administration must continue its efforts to build support at the United Nations for a new, unfettered, unconditional weapons inspection regime. If we can eliminate the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction through inspections, whenever, wherever, and however we want them, including in palaces--and I am highly skeptical, given the full record, given their past practices, that we can necessarily achieve that--then we have an obligation to try that as the first course of action before we expend American lives in any further effort."


Molly, I believe he does admit and adjust to mistakes. If you read this speech though, I'm not sure he made a mistake. The promises he talked about the shrub breaking in the CBS debate were made on the record in shrub's speech to a joint session requesting the vote. I read Kerry's speech and I see a man who understood the situation far, far better than bush or any of his merry men. If you read the speech, Kerry also went to NYC to speak with Kofi Annan and members of the SC to make sure they were in it with us provided we worked with the U.N.
Was he naive to trust Bush to keep a promise of such grave importance? He would be now, of that I've no doubt. But then? :shrug:
Shrub burned a lot of people with those assurances of his, not just Sen. Kerry. He won't get fooled again...and he's starting to yell about the lies in shrub's speech to the Joint Session. This is a good thing.

Rick

[mzmolly]

123. Thank you I shall revisit this issue again...

One thing I'm learning about JK is I don't care for his articulation of certain issues.

For example: Regarding gay marriage-he says "I am opposed to Gay Marriage" and that becomes his *central* theme, however he states that he supports civil unions. So in essence, he and Dean have the same factual position on this issue, but Dean articulates it with more respect.

I am not one to think that our public servants can't err Rick. But, I want to see Kerry admit his. I want him to say Bush lied, and this war was WRONG. I was suckered... I have not heard him say that the war was the wrong decision, ever.

Also, he should have supported Biden/Lugar if it was about disarming Saddam, but he "trusted" Bush instead? Again, I can forgive people who take RESPONSIBILITY for their actions, but I can't get beyond this until or unless he does.

I do Thank You for your reply and will read the info you provided, and let you know my thoughts.

:hi:

Im really trying to embrace Mr. Kerry, I really am.

Do you have any current statements from him on the war that articulate any degree of mea culpa? ;)

Thanks

[Career Prole]

132. Molly, I'm confused now...

...on Biden-Lugar, in the same floor speech I left the link for above, Kerry said (which sounds rather supportive):

I would have preferred that the President agree to the approach drafted by Senators Biden and Lugar because that resolution would authorize the use of force for the explicit purpose of disarming Iraq and countering the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.
The Biden-Lugar resolution also acknowledges the importance of the President's efforts at the United Nations. It would require the President, before exercising the authority granted in the resolution, to send a determination to Congress that the United States tried to seek a new Security Council resolution or that the threat posed by Iraq's WMD is so great he must act absent a new resolution--a power, incidentally, that the President of the United States always has.
I believe this approach would have provided greater clarity to the American people about the reason for going to war and the specific grant of authority. I think it would have been a better way to do this. But it does not change the bottom line of what we are voting for.
The administration, unwisely, in my view, rejected the Biden-Lugar approach. But, perhaps as a nod to the sponsors, it did agree to a determination requirement on the status of its efforts at the United Nations. That is now embodied in the White House text."

http://www.independentsforkerry.com/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html

I'll try and find some mea culpas for you, Molly, but I don't know what luck I'll have. I'm fairly certain he's going to play it throughout the campaign that Bush made assurances in his address re further inspections, playing nice with the U.N., and rounding up international cooperation which he then completely ignored, and that the ultimate responsibility lies with shrub. That satisfies me because that was a precedent-setting pack of lies to the Joint Session...I'm not sure if there are any parallels for it. I feel the yes vote sprang from Kerry believing shrub might lie about other stuff, but no one in his right mind would lie about that.
I fully understand that's not good enough for you, and I respect that feeling in anyone who holds it. I'm cutting Kerry some slack because as far as I'm concerned the depths to which this administration sank in order to deceive were bound to take a certain percentage of the population by surprise. I mean, I know they say anyone can grow up to be pResident, but who would've expected it to be possible for someone so...friggin' evil. How many people still consider him "honest"? Herds of 'em. I can hear them bleating from here. They'll still fall for his shit, but Kerry never will again. He received a graphic demonstration of how low a neo-con can go and he won't ever forget.

Edited to add link again.

[mzmolly]

133. He supported Biden/Lugar but voted for the alternative...

And, at the same time he criticized Gep for "failing" to support Biden-Lugar? I just WISH he would have followed his original instincts. I think his desire to seek higher public office, got in the way of his better judgement here?

Here is one quote from your link:



I respect that position. And frankly, I dont fault him for the past as much as I do the present.

I would at the very least, like JK to express disgust at being LIED to. Ted Kennedy does this well. I would like John to go out on a limb and say, I believe I was lied to and I'm angry as hell about that! I'd like him to mention the cost of those lies. The human cost, the financial cost etc...

I understand JK doesn't feel he gave the President authority to go to war. It seems he feels he provided Bush with a "conditional" agreement, and he feels that Bush broke the conditions of that agreement.

I also understand that he is running for President, and speaking loudly against the war, may not be the smartest political move - considering anythings possible at this point. But I can't help but expect John Kerry to be at least as angry as I am. There are more than 500 dead Americans and several innocent civilians as well. For what? Why isn't John Kerry, *who fought in Vietnam* angry as hell?!

Sorry to be so harsh, but I feel I need MORE ...

Thanks for taking the time to respond. As I said, the guy has my vote already, but I would really like to reconcile this. I am an open minded person, and would like to hear him out on this issue. But, I dont hear him saying much of consequence.

[fiorello]

58. Doing the right thing - in the name of patriotism

I expect - and hope- that Kerry will break the cycle of "liberals" versus 'patriotic Americans". So that a whole range of issues - health care, environment, civil liberties - doing the right thing becomes part of patriotic duty. This could be a major realignment in the way people think! Only Kerry (or Clark) could do that.

It's an easy choice for me. I agree with Kerry's long-term positions on almost every issue - and he's my type, personally. He's serious, not smarmy.

Kerry has a long, consistent record of supporting liberal positions - it's all on his web site, and in numerous articles. I have no doubt that he'll do the right things whenever he can get away with it.

I'm not sure, but I think some of the unease about Kerry is because he doesn't "feel" anti-establishment. Dean, Kucinich and Edwards all did. Kerry doesn't. But I trust him. I could be wrong - I've been fooled before - but I trust him.

[sangh0]

71. Kerry transcends the labels

He has complicated and thoughtful positions which defy the labels and stereotypes

[mzmolly]

98. Good reply. My greatest apprehsion is his position on the Iraq War.

I don't think it's clear frankly.

Not trying to debate here, but it's my biggest hurdle.

[molly]

61. Here's what we think......and he speaks for most of us

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=262154

[mzmolly]

102. I was hoping you'd speak for yourself. "HE" is welcome to post his

reasons here should he choose to do so.

[BL_Zebub]

63. Just an Unholy observation here....

Out of about 55 or so replies to this thread, less than 10 have given any valid reasons to vote for Kerry. And those of you who made those posts did a respectable job stating your cases, though this Devil remains skeptical that Kerry would return to his pre-coup 2000 state to take on the issues you are passionate about. If he proves me wrong and all of you right, then I will be pleasantly shocked.

As for the rest of you, who have no response other than the quasi fascist "He's the fucking nominee so bow down before him!!" repeated endlessly, I submit to you that you are but pawns of the DLC and the media, voting for whom you are told without one good reason why.

And that is truly pathetic :evilfrown:

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

65. I first became aware of John Kerry

from watching cspan in the early nineties. When he spoke, I heard the truth. I heard him speak with honesty, clarity, and without regard to political correctness. I heard him fighting for those who often have no one else to fight for them. He impressed me enough to think: "That is the kind of man we need as President". In the years since, Kerry has not always said what I wanted to hear, and he has not always acted the way I wished he would act -- no one agrees with me 100% of the time. But those years have to me, confirmed my belief that his motives are good, and that he has the intelligence, ability, temperment and character to potentially be a great President.

[curse10]

85. I've supported Kerry since day one

For three issues.

1. He's a staunch supporter of women's rights. And he's always had that position. I know he will always protect my rights.

2. The environment. I think he's incredibally strong on this issue. I don't think we had a better choice for an environmentally conscious president. He even out does Gore. And that's saying something.

3. His higher education plan kicks everyone else's ass. One of the major reasons I disliked Dean is that his plan came out very, very late and then it was a lame attempt. He just figured he needed something on the table, and it sucked. Kerry's plan will help me directly. I can't say that for any of the plans presented on any other issue or by any other candidate.

When I was younger I was a one issue voter- the candidate must be pro-choice. Now I'm primarily a three issue voter-- I did my research months ago and Kerry was the closest to my core beliefs (which was surprising for a former Socialist).

I've also met Kerry on two occasions and I really like him as a person.

[mzmolly]

100. All good reasons to support John Kerry...

but ma'an can we all quit with the Dean trip?

I'll look at Kerry's plan for higher ed as I think that's a very important issue.

[sandnsea]

91. Everything's connected

He sees the connections. You can't fight a war on terror without creating real relationships with the people who are living in the opressed countries where terrorists come from. You can't do anything about the that unless we do something about our own energy needs. You can't do anything about our energy needs and our own desire for a cleaner environment unless you address it all around the world. Business competition requires all countries to be on a level economic playing field, with environmental, human rights and labor rights. Which brings us right back to our own job situation. He sees the connections in everything. That's why I've always thought he would set the nation and the world on a real path of peace and prosperity that would change the course of the next hundred years. He's exactly who we need in the White House. The right person at the right time. That doesn't happen very often. We're blessed to have this opportunity and that's why I'll continue to do everything I can to make it happen.

[mzmolly]

101. Thanks...

good reply...

[Evil_Dewers]

114. If you are serious about investigating Kerry, read these books

The New War: The Web of Crime That Threaten's America's Security



author: John Kerry

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684846144/ref=pd_sim_books_4/102-4908614-9240149?v=glance&s=books




They Marched Into Sunlight: War and Peace Vietnam and America October 1967




author: David Maraniss (also wrote the Clinton biography "First In His Class"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743217802/ref=pd_sim_books_3/102-4908614-9240149?v=glance&s=books





Tour of Duty : John Kerry and the Vietnam War




author: Douglas Brinkley

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060565233/102-4908614-9240149?v=glance


A Call to Service: My Vision for a Better America




author: John Kerry

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0670032603/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/102-4908614-9240149?v=glance&s=books&st=*

[Evil_Dewers]

115. A freeper review of Kerry's book "A Call To Service"

Amazon.com review

1 star

1 of 27 people found the following review helpful:

What a load of...., February 20, 2004
Reviewer: A reader from Columbia, SC USA

What a load of dung! You don't need to go to the internet for facts, just read his other book "The New Soldier" to really understand what he stands for. He's not fit to wear a military uniform. And giving this book one star is one start too many. Read both to confirm your own faith in REAL AMERICANS like GW Bush, not a two-faced anti-American like Kerry.


Was this review helpful to you? NO

[mountainvue]

103. A few reasons:

Kerry has a great environmental record. His wife donates large amounts of money to liberal causes. He is very pro reproductive rights for women. He has said he will get us out of Iraq and I believe him. He's a distinguished veteran. The guys is smart confident and has what it takes to do the job. I can't wait for the one on one debates with Bush.

[Faygo Kid]

104. Vietnam Veterans Against the War, 1971: Damned right.

I am indeed ABB (not sure that matters now), but at 52, I remember John Kerry as a young man coming back and opposing That War. You are damned right I am passionate about him. He did the right thing then, and I trust him to do the right thing now. I think he will make a great president. What, 30+ years of principled, anti-war liberalism isn't enough for you? I am so sick and tired of the posts that just hate John Kerry; what in the Hell has he done to even remotely compare to Bush? I intend to contribute to and work for Kerry. Period.

[mzmolly]

120. LOL

Look Im ABB too. I have been all along.

And, I am impressed with much of Kerry's past. But am discouraged by his position on Iraq.

He says the war was gone about in "the wrong way" but that it was the right thing to do? I have serious disagreements with that statement. It was NOT the right thing to do.

Either way, I plan to vote AGAINST Bush in November no matter what....

However, I started this thread in hopes of learning things that would give me a reason to vote FOR John Kerry. I must admit, I've still got a way to go to get to that point.

Also, there were very few replies in this thread that were sincere and without venom. That doesn't help matters either.

[seventhson]

107. Passion? Of Kerry? Umm... Okay: the Environment. Anti-Death Penalty

The fact that he opposed Gulf War I.

He actually DID expose a hell of a lot on BCCI and the CIA and the connections. The threads he developed and revealed made it possible for us to know much more than we ever could have known about it (even if it did not go anywhere near as far as I wished it would, I do agree that it was squelched by others).

His patrician background gives him the inside knowlkedge he needs to keep the playing field level with Bush.

Bonesmen can actually line up on the two sides like an intrmural football scrimmage and the )hopefully) progressive ones (if there are any) will help unseat the fundie idiot "Temporary" in favor of reform in the country and within the system globally.

The fact that he is filthy rich means that he is not necessarily beholden to anyone (except his hippy-chic wife) and the fact that he is Catholic AND of Jewish extraction means that he has a spiritual heritigae of compassion and charity and grace and service to others (unblike the royal church of England Bush types). I often thought that Kennedy'sa Catholicism was one of the most important factors in his presidency: his sense of duty to humanity instead of a sense of entitlement bestowed by God as most wasps tend to exhibit.

I know this is shaded a bit by my perspective, but I am mustering it up the best I can.

[DeepModem Mom]

122. Kerry has gravitas, and isn't afraid to say, "Bring it on!"

From a privileged background, he hasn't dedicated his public life to enriching others in his economic bracket (in contrast to the Bush family). After proving his courage in a hellish war, he led a movement against that war. As the presumed Democratic nominee in 2004, he may be our last hope of saving the country we know, before it turns into a one-party theocracy.

[Dying Eagle]

127. Speeches

Back in Oct.I listened to a Kerry speech online and talked to a friend who is a supporter. Kerry is honest, he outlined his whole platform and he motivated me to get involved for the first time in my life.

[K8-EEE]

134. He Came From Behind....Very Rocky-esque!

I was impressed with the campaign he ran, although he wasn't my first choice, that's really no big deal, there was a big field starting out!

I respect him and I'll campaign for him PROUDLY!