Why the anti-Obama hate?

[FightTheRight89]

Listen, I'm a huge Obama fan. I am starting to dislike Hillary Clinton but do not loathe her as many of the Clintonites on this site seem to loathe Obama. I feel Obama brings a great positive message of change and has the skills to do it.

So my request is this: Can someone who hates Obama step up to the plate and give a logical, reasoned explanation WHY they don't like this man? Please don't defend Hillary Clinton. I'm not asking you to do that. I just am very curious as to where the Obama hatred stems from.

And by the way: PLEASE do not include "Because his supporters ______". You don't vote for a candidate for his supporters. That's just ridiculously moronic.

[scheming daemons]

1. Because they feel their "entitled" nomination is slipping away...

...and desperate times call for desperate measures.

Hillary supporters wanted a coronation.... then those pesky voters started getting in the way.

[ErnestoG]

21. Right on the money.

[demo dutch]

58. Why the anti-Hillary hate. See link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4311188

[rodeodance]

42. The was a Media incarnation--get your facts straight.

[ThatPoetGuy]

2. I'm an Edwards supporter who hasn't decided yet.

And I dislike both Hillary and Obama. These days I dislike Obama more. Maybe that will change.

I dislike the Republicans more than I dislike Hillary or Obama. That's not likely to change.

I dislike Obama's policies, and I despise his messages.

His health care plan will leave out the people who need coverage the most. His plans for Iraq leave a lot of troops there, for years and years to come.

Clinton and Obama have made their campaigns about themselves: the messenger and not the message. All three had very similar policies -- Obama is different from the others on health care, because he opposes mandates, and justifies it dishonestly; Edwards was different from the other two on Iraq, because he was only planning to leave enough troops to guard the embassy.

If I had to rank them:

in terms of legislative history, Obama has the best record, followed by Edwards, followed by Hillary -- and even Hillary has a far better record than any of the Repugnicans;

in terms of policies, Edwards was best, followed by Hillary (who just copied Edwards), followed by Obama -- and even Obama has far better policies than any of the Repugnicans;

in terms of the message a candidate sends out into the world, affecting real shifts in the way people think about things, Edwards was the best in my lifetime. Hillary has been too cautious, putting her in a distant, distant second, and Obama's messages -- from "achieving unity" with evildoers to his attacks on mandated care to his refusal to condemn virulent gay-bashers to his dishonest criticisms of labor unions, trial lawyers, Paul Krugman, and others, to portraying a woman in politics as a witch -- Obama's messages have been the worst. Several Repugnicans have spread a more liberal message than Obama's: Giuliani's message was in favor of gay rights, Huckabee's message is oriented more towards helping the poor and the sick.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

4. Explain how Obama's health plan leaves out those who need coverage most.

[ThatPoetGuy]

20. Obama's health plan leaves millions of poor people without coverage.

http://www.factcheck.org/clinton_vs_obama.html

factcheck.org is non-partisan. It's not some cover for Hillary shills.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

22. You should probably read it again. It doesn't make a good case for Clinton's plan either. nt

[ThatPoetGuy]

24. You did say...

"Explain how Obama's health plan leaves out those who need coverage most."

At the best, most positive interpretation, it leaves the poorest 3% of Americans without coverage. That's nine million people who will lose everything, everything, if something bad happens to them: even something as moderate as gallstones or a broken leg.

And try not to argue as though I'm a Clinton supporter. I find her and Obama both repellent.

[sandnsea]

27. "the difference in outcomes may not amount to much. "

Your own resource doesn't say what you say it says.

"Clinton uses a dubious statistic when she claims Obama’s plan would leave out 15 million of the uninsured."

"But neither candidate has provided enough detail for analysts to predict confidently how many might be left uninsured under either plan."

[ThatPoetGuy]

28. It doesn't make sense to say "but Hillary this, Hillary that"

since I'm not a Hillary supporter.

I said Obama's plan will leave millions of poor people without coverage. That link says the actual number is in dispute among experts; some say he will leave 20 million people without coverage, others say he will only leave 3% without coverage.

3% of Americans is nine million people.

The (few) health reform experts who support Obama's plan say it will only leave nine million people without health care. Only nine million, eh?

Nine million Americans living on the edge of catastrophe should be considered a major problem.

[sandnsea]

29. All proposed plans leave people uncovered

Your own factcheck says so. The attack on Obama's plan has always been bullshit, whether compared to Edwards' or Hillary's.

13% of drivers don't have a license and 25% are uninsured. Mandates don't provide universal coverage. The only way for everyone to have health care is to give everybody an insurance card and then figure out how to pay for it later.

[ThatPoetGuy]

38. The driving comparison was an outright lie

and it really made me lose respect for Obama.

I don't know Hillary's plan well enough to say if it the car insurance comparison is accurate. In the case of Edwards' plan, it was complete bullshit the Obama camp invented.

Not all mandates are the same. Social security is mandated. So is unemployment. And these aren't paid for the same as auto insurance. The Obama camp invented the car insurance comparison because they were consciously, deliberately trying to deceive you.

It worked.

[rodeodance]

44. Yes, blatant deciption by Obama is what it was.

[BeyondGeography]

7. Prominent Edwards supporter switches to Obama

OLYMPIA — The woman who chaired John Edwards' 2004 and 2008 presidential campaigns in Washington state announced today she is now backing Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill.

Jenny Durkan, a Seattle attorney, said she was disappointed that Edwards fared so poorly in other states and had to bow out of the race earlier this week. But she said she feels strongly that Obama is a better choice than Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y.

"I truly believe the country needs a new direction and it needs it both on a political level and on a spiritual level," Durkan said. "We need someone who can appeal to our better angels ... and I think he's the person best equipped to do that."

Durkan said Obama has been more consistent than Clinton in opposing the Iraq war, a stance she said will be key in winning the general election. And, after nearly three decades of having a Bush or Clinton in the White House, Durkan said it's time for a change...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004159326_webobama01m.html

[psychopomp]

26. The article is off-topic but one quote is quite a gem:

"I truly believe the country needs a new direction and it needs it both on a political level and on a spiritual level," Durkan said. "We need someone who can appeal to our better angels ... and I think he's the person best equipped to do that."

If asked why I supported Sen. Obama's run, I couldn't say it any better than that.

[KittyWampus]

60. Dear Poet Guy, I want to thank you for an honest, thoughtful assessment! A unique find

and highly valuable.

It means a lot to come across someone willing to be honest and fair minded.

Won't try to steer you in any direction.

You made my day.

[Dogmudgeon]

3. It's (some of) the Obama supporters

They (well, many of them) have been dumping hate here for a couple of weeks now. We Hillary supporters just got tired of it.

The press is also a reason. They have treated Obama with kid gloves. Ask yourself: other than the Rezko issue, which died, what press demands have been made on Obama? None. And what press demands have been made on Hillary? Literally hundreds.

She's getting hammered for a vote he never had to make; since he entered the Senate, he's voted WITH her 100% of the time on defense issues. He's also made statements to the effect of, "my stance toward Iraq is the same as Bush's". I understand that this is hyperbole, but he has not been asked about it; Hillary's entire record has been combed, and Bill's is also being trotted out.

The messianic attraction some of his followers show is also profoundly frightening to some people (like me). The number of people for Obama who were drawn by emotional issues alone is HUGE. Again, I do not consider Obama to be a Svengali, but he's playing with fire.

Actually, I do not hate Obama at all. I considered myself an Obama supporter until just before Iowa. If he's the candidate, I will happily stuff his envelopes. But I defend Hillary here because she has very few defenders, and many of her detractors are completely out of control.

I also like political fighting. I get plenty of it. Fighting for the underdog is not exactly an rare political hobby. I'd do it for any good reason. I've been defending the Clintons from the Right and the uber-Left for 16 years. It's fun, I know how to do it, and it's back in style!

--p!

[thunder rising]

5. Oh great.. then you'll know the statement, "When the $hit sticks you've got a looser"

[Prefer]

2nd that

[Maven]

9. Good post.

Although add pandering to homophobes to the list for me.

[AX10]

12. Good post.

As you said, we never heard the end of how bad Hillary is. We had no choice but to hit back.

[Deep13]

16. I agree.

:headbang:

[ErnestoG]

30. You damn RIGHT she's getting hammered for her vote.

And if the tables were turned and it was Obama's vote I'd be saying the same damn thing.

Since when is it "presidential" to just duck responsibility for a vote that helped enable a criminal war that has so far resulted in over a million deaths?

[rodeodance]

45. I think people who focus one issue and constantly harp about it do a grave disservie to our nation.

[demo dutch]

52. Hammered at DU. The rest of the country has moved on to the economy and is far less

obsessed with the "vote" 73 % was for the War at the onset and now they just want to end in Iraq.

[joshcryer]

36. Good post, I'm the exact same way.

I "support" Hillary almost entirely on the basis that Obama supporters in GDP are out of hand and the MSM is completely spinning this race into a "horse race" so it can get as much press as it can.

[chascarrillo]

40. "I also like political fighting... It's fun"

I admire you candor. I also admire the candor of all the folks who replied with "Good post." It's rare that you see so many people acknowledge that they're simply treating this race as a game.

[Dogmudgeon]

50. Yet it's more than a game

The game aspect of it kind of sets the rules for the engagement; we will also need those skills when we unite behind a nominee. The day after the Democratic convention wraps up, the shitstorm will begin. We expect that to happen with Hillary, but if Obama has not been subjected to this kind of treatment during the primaries, he could possibly be blown away within days.

There is an old proverb that soldiers rely on: "Sweat in training, or bleed in combat." Fighting on DU is our sweat. We also sweat in oppo research, fund raising, legal training, during political apprenticeship, and learning spoken and written rhetoric. Our Democracy, our Republic, our Nation and our World are all at stake. The fight will demand the best from each of us, and we should demand the best from each fight.

I strongly believe that this is the historical moment for the liberal Democratic vision. If we miss this opportunity, it may not come again in my lifetime (I'm 49) and the younger folks may have to wait as long as I have after we bungled the 1970s. This time, we have two candidates who are two of the five best American statesmen of the past century (WJC, JFK, FDR; plus HRC and BHO). But this time we also have the luxury of decades of that sweaty training. Our enemies have exhausted their strength, while we have grown in might and skill. May the warriors' blood sacrifice be theirs alone.

--p!

[AlCzervik]

6. i don't dislike either candidate, some of their supporters however--not so much.

almost feel bad for their candidates.

[Lucinda]

8. I don't hate Obama. I've never met him.

I just don't plan to vote for him next week.

[maximusveritas]

10. I don't think all of it is sincere

The fact is that this place, like most political communities, is crawling with trolls who just try to stir up trouble.

When you look at people in the real world, there isn't anything like this kind of hate toward either candidate (at least among Democrats)

People just like to come on the internet and talk big. Whenever I leave DU for a while and come back, it's like a whole different world.

Yes, there are people who are passionate about their candidates, but as you saw in the debate, they really like both candidates and would like to see them both on the ticket.

[cloudythescribbler]

37. yes, and WHY are all those trolls going after OBAMA? Agenda needs to be discerned ...

[featherman]

11. Personally I see very little of the virulent hate anymore since

I learned to use the ignore function. I don't need the aggravation of being constantly yelled at by lunatics. Life's too short.
Amazing what cleaning out a dozen or so sewer mouths and screamers will do for peace of mind and reasonable conversation.

Otherwise I just don't bother to open the more obvious anti-Obama (or anti-Clinton) screed. Opinion without at least an attempt at reasonable supporting data or argument is a cheap and common commodity that's of little value to me.

[Thrill]

13. Bottom line is her supporters much like Hillary thought

she was a lock for the nomination. And they don't know how to handle the fact that she is going to have to fight hard to get it. So they result to tearing Obama down

[Sapphocrat]

14. I don't hate Obama.

I just don't believe in him, and I don't trust him. I want nuts and bolts, and he gives me a Kumbaya circle jerk.

Is that clear enough?

[Deep13]

15. I don't hate him, so I guess I may not be qualified to answer.

SOME of the animosity on this board is a reaction to aggressive attacks on HRC by supporters of O. I remember how the media, especially the self-identified right-wingers directed their unmitigated hatred toward her in the 1990s. Bill was a hippie and a draft dodger. Hillery was a lesbian, a control freak and an ice queen. These new attacks have a dreadful reminiscence about them.

The term "entitlement" is a distortion. The feeling rather is that someone who has paid her dues and established herself in the party and in public service should not be demonized and brushed aside in favor of rookie with almost the same exact positions she has. While both HC and O get labeled as corporate candidates here, out in the world, the country seems to think they are both too liberal. To sum up my own feelings, what's Obama ever done? He went from state senator to Federal Senator to (if elected) president in four years. It makes me wonder if he is about public service or merely ego. (I say "merely ego" as opposed to ego and public service. They all have colossal egos.)

My feeling is O. is not ripe yet. Let him keep his promise to IL and complete a Senate term and then maybe run a little later.

[Metric System]

25. I agree with this.

[NMMNG]

17. I don't hate Obama

I just don't believe he is the right person for the job for a variety of reasons. I also greatly dislike a number of things he's said and done. I don't, however, dislike or "hate" him.

[DiamondJay]

18. not hate, but discontent with playing the race card

by twisting the fairy tale remark, the MLK remark, his surrogate the great jesse jackson's son JJ Jr. accusing Hillary of not crying over so-called "black problems" and then saying Bill Clinton, whose office is in harlem, and Hillary of being racists.

[suston96]

19. Two most used words on DU: 'hate' and 'liar'. Why is that?

[scheming daemons]

32. Not true! Man, I hate liars like you

;-)

[Straight Shooter]

23. Not hate. Deep mistrust, perhaps.

The American Idol of politics makes me very leery of him, since he's playing it to the hilt. I wouldn't be surprised to see cheerleaders at one of his rallies. People crying at his speeches. Jeez.

I don't trust people who skyrocket to the top, seemingly from nowhere, who become, for no reason half-man, half-myth. I don't like his association with Lieberman as his mentor, with Rahm Emanuel being the best friend of his campaign manager Axelrod.

Here's an in-depth article on Barack, written by a staunch Catholic conservative. It's a very even-handed, sometimes flattering, interesting biography of Barack's miraculous rise to the top of the pond, and the people who got him there.

http://www.tomroeser.com/blogs/default.asp?categoryID=54

Here his old boss, the old liberal Jewish Judd Miner, tough as an old boot, applied venerable Jake Arvey old-school moxie from and cracked some heads. The order came from downtown that Obama was to go to the state Senate. And when there was some complaining, Senator Jones, the epitome of black working class that its adherents call “pick and shovel” said to his workers who kicked that Obama wasn’t one of them: “Y’all shut up! This guy is ours! And you will take him, hear me?” Jones was leader of the Senate Democrats and one of four top state officials who negotiate the budget with the governor (Catholic who, of course, is pro-abort) on the South Side. Now he is Senate President, the second African-American in Illinois history to hold the post.

Under Jones’ tutelage, Obama learned in his local speeches to speak South Side and added it to his repertoire along with southern gentility and university talk. He proved to be a good student; he talked in blunt declaratives; once in Springfield he could do all three. He could and can switch to all three voices. I have a local ABC talk show on politics and he wanted on. So one day I passed through the metal detector to find him lounging around and talking to the state troopers in terms they understand. He signaled me, came over and said with a winning smile: “Say, Big Guy, when do I get on your show?” And, of course, just like that he was on.

I remember when he first came on, he was uniquely different from the usual run-of-the-mill Chicago Democratic politician. He decided to try his sweet southern style mixed with university nuance. The station carries Rush Limbaugh and has a big audience that is well to the right. The first time he was on my show, Obama tried out sweet southern. A guy would call up and assail the liberals for trying “to take away my guns.” Obama would listen to him and seemingly make an effort to reconcile, saying he sympathized but on the other hand--. In a sense he would parse-balancing his response so that there was equal weight on either side with a slight, very slight, indication as to where he was heading. On my show and on others, he began the reputation that clings to him now of a “moderate”-where, in fact, there’s nothing moderate about him. The guy who wanted to keep his guns soon found that out but to a wider audience, Obama was parsing and sounding pretty good. As is the case with all parsers, the definitive differences are blurred. And on that show Barack Obama was an ace Sweet Southern. But what few understood was that he could do blurry or specific lefty talk-depending on who wanted to hear what.

[mopinko]

53. tom roeser is barely a notch above glen beck

give me a f'ing break. do you even know who this clown is? he is a typical lying con.

[BlueStater]

31. I don't hate him

I just see him as a media-created candidate of little substance.

I don't give a damn if he's a good orator. His actions as a senator (or lack their of) speak louder than words.

[depakid]

33. Why all the loaded language?

"Hate" "loath" and "dislike."

Seems to me, you're begging the question here, rather than sincerely asking for a reasoned response.

[Perry Logan]

34. I like Obama. But many of his followers are little more than anti-Hillary bigots.

[pintobean]

35. There is no

logical, reasoned explanation for hatred.

[tokenlib]

39. The Hillary run has been anticipated for so many years...

I think a lot of the interest groups NOW, AFSME, etc and a lot of people from politicians and activists--the years of debts piled up where people owed the Clintons...

It was all set in motion so long ago for Hillary..
And then Obama comes in and steals so much energy and attention--even the attention of people the Clintons had cultivated for years like the Kennedy family...

When Hillary was the oppressively presumptive front-runner--they smiled and said nice things about him--patronizing things. But when the movement gained strength and threatened what had been building for years--it got nasty.

Obama's success has threatened an establishement that took the Clintons and their followers years to build. Of course he is resented--and hated by some--not all, but some....

[demo dutch]

54. He's got no resume and no experience! Picking a president based on "just

wanting change" is rediculous under the current world situation this country finds it self in.

[gulliver]

41. Can you give an example of this "hate?"

[chascarrillo]

43. Link here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=132

[demo dutch]

55. and link here for the opposite "hate"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4311188

[gulliver]

63. Not seeing anything there. The hate sightings outnumber the hate occurrences...

...about 100 to 1. In fact, I rarely see anything that looks like Obama hate. But if there is so much, surely someone can point something out.

[Skip Intro]

46. Not hate, just tired of having some arrogant empty suit of little substance shoved down my throat

like he's some new messiah.

Just coming off of eight years of that cultism crap from the other side.

[KennedyGuy]

47. your question is answered amply by the hate-filled responses of his supporters

on this thread..
question asked...question easily answered..
just give some of them a chance to talk long enough and it becomes easily apparant.

[Neshanic]

48. No experience. Not ready for the turmoil coming our way.

[Liberalboy]

49. I don't HATE the man...

I strongly dislike him because he was asked to disavow himself and remove an anti-gay ex-gey preacher from his Southern Tour and he refused to do so...

here is in article:

http://www.washblade.com/2007/10-26/news/national/11445.cfm

One of the quotes from the article that is poignant states:

“Can you imagine for one second if Hillary Clinton or John Edwards had a tour with a country singer who was a white supremacist?” he said. “You can’t tell me that this person wouldn’t be ejected from the stage in a New York minute.”

Very true and very telling of how this man views LGBT people. I know others support him, but I can't

[demo dutch]

51. Clintonites loathing Obama? More like the reverse. Obama lacks the experience and political

resume to take this country out of the mess it's in.

[demo dutch]

56. Why the anti-hillary hate? I should pose. See this link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4311188

[cd3dem]

57. his divisive tone and messages or lack of...

I used to like Obama... but he has created negative messages against other democrats... his argument about the war vote makes me mad because the republicans love this sort of thing... they will claim democrats are soft on National Security... then came the media crap on "race"... it was Obama's place to stop it! Immediately!!!! he allowed it to continue for either political gain or a lack of leadership... it divided the dems and created a race issue that didn't need to be there... Jesse Jackson was a forward speaker on the issues... Obama should have spoken loud and clear!

http://www.essence.com/essence/lifestyle/voices/0,16109,1706948,00.html

[demo dutch]

59. On the nose!

[krabigirl]

61. I don't hate Obama. I just don't get the whole "movement" thing. he's not my first choice.

I am not a Clinton supporter, either. I am uncommitted.

I just find that the whole Obama movement seems a bit too over-the-top for me. And I don't like the constant blatherings about unity, when I know that Republicans will not give a crap about "uniting" with progressive principles. Also, for all of Obama's unity talk, he is very divisive when he speaks about Clinton.

I don't see why anyone would hate him, or Clinton, though.

[TheDeathadder]

62. I'm 100% for HIllary Clinton

and have 0% hatred for Obama.

Since I've returned to DU this last month there has been so much hatred for both Clinton and Obama. I seriously hope we remember we have to work together in the General Election.

I think Clinton/Obama fatigue is starting to set in...I hope. We should be debating strength not smear.

I'm a life-time democrat, and I'm a white male. I know the arguments and people's theories why...but a Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton ticket would be awesome.