The enduring myth of why Michael Dukakis lost . . .

[dolstein]

I have long believed that Kerry would be a pretty weak candidate in the general election, because he can be easily tagged as another Massachusetts liberal, for the simple reason that (a) he's from Massachusetts and (b) he's a liberal. Of course, whenever I say this, DU'ers quickly chime in (as if on cue) that the Bush campaign's efforts to Dukakis-ize Kerry won't work, because unlike Dukakis, Kerry will fight back.

But what exactly could Dukakis do to fight those charges? After all, he WAS -- by his own admission -- a liberal. He opposed the death penalty. He was a member of the ACLU. He could have gone negative against Bush. But that wouldn't have changed voters' impressions of him. In the end, they'd have to choose between a Massachusetts liberal and an out-of-touch elitist from Kennebunkport. That might have made the election closer, but I think Dukakis would still have been in serious trouble.

And frankly, Kerry's response to the "are you a liberal" question during Sunday's debate doesn't give me much confidence that he's figure out a way to "fight back" against these charges. The fact is, he avoided answering the question. He tried to change the subject by talking about Bush. But that can only work so long. Sooner or later, Kerry's either going to have to come up with a convincing explanation as to why he isn't a liberal, or a credible argument as to why people should vote for him in spite of, or because of, his liberal tendencies.

[sangh0]

1. in addition

Dukakis started catching back up when he started campaigning as an outspoken liberal. Unfortunately, by the time he wised up it was too late to catch up.

[charlie]

6. Yep

Got himself a nice 5-point bounce when he did those sweater-and-fireplace commercials -- "...and yes I AM a liberal. A liberal in the spirit of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, blah, blah..." Too little, too late, the chump.

[sangh0]

9. Not too little. Just too late.

It doesn't take much, You just have to time it right

[charlie]

15. Yeah, I know

And as far as I'm concerned, the time is the first time they hit you with it. It galls me to see some candidates duck and weave, partly because there's no shame in being a liberal, but mostly because it doesn't work. Define it, own it, and defuse it. Hell, even something as far-fetched as "yeah, I'm a liberal. A gun-toting, tobacco-spitting, Islamofascist-ass-kicking liberal" would do the job. Ducking it just makes you party to the stigma.

[David Zephyr]

22. Exactly, Charlie.

It was too little, too late after running away from the tag "liberal" for most of the election.

[sadiesworld]

2. Big difference:

Voters know what America looks like under a Bush II reign.

[dolstein]

3. Yes, and 45-50% don't mind

and at least some of those who do mind would rather suffer under Bush than hand the government over to a Massachusetts liberal.

[The Blue Knight]

5. And Kerry won't be stupid enough to hop in a tank....

And I don't think he has any Willie Horton in the closet either..

[mobuto]

13. Dukakis in a tank = Bush in a flight suit

Neither had any business being there, and Kerry will with any luck do unto Bush what Bush's Daddy did unto Dukakis.

[bluestateguy]

4. Admit he's a liberal and proudly defend it

When candidates for office skirt around the "liberal" label they are implicitly admitting that there is something wrong with being a liberal, thus confirming the other side's arguments. Republicans don't run from the "conservative" label, even though most voters do not describe themselves as such. They respect someone who makes no bones about their ideology even if they may disagree sometimes. Of course, to listen to some people here you would think that john Kerry is Zell Miller from Massachusetts. They are doing what the Bush campaign will do: dig up a few votes out of thousands and distort his record.

[info being]

8. I know. His response in that debate was pathetic.

We must hold him accountable. Liberal = Good, Mr. Kerry, GET IT?

[cally]

7. Doesn't matter anymore

Kerry will get the nomination unless something bizarre happens. So, it's either Kerry or Bush. Take your pick. I want Kerry.

[LSdemocrat]

10. Dukakis made a number of mistakes, being a liberal wasn't one

First of all, instead of building on the momentum he built in the convention, he went on vacation!

He allowed Bush and his cronies to run despicable negative ads against him. He didn't respond because he felt like the attacks were below him.

He also performed poorly in the debates giving a horrid response to a death penalty question, in which he showed no remorse for crime victims.

Amazingly, once he did start to fight back, he managed to raise his poll numbers and end up with 46% of the vote.

[BootinUp]

11. re-define liberal for masses is the only answer

It's certainly possible. Dukakis had to deal with run amok welfare, the Carter legacy on the economy and of course the fact he would get nothing in the South.

In Kerry's case there is a successful democratic economic record that voters will remember. So that should help quite a bit. You can tell from my avatar I wasn't originally for Kerry, but I am now, and I believe GWB can be beat with the right running mate. (See picture below). :)

[mobuto]

12. Dukakis lost

because George H. W. ran the dirtiest campaign since maybe the 1800 race between Jefferson and Adams. It was a lot closer than most people realize, but Dukakis would have won if any one of the following conditions were met

1) he had anything resembling charisma;
2) he had campaigned intelligently (his strategy in Southern states is a yet-to-be-surpassed pinacle of ineptitude);
3) he had fought back against Bush with 1/100 the vigor he was attacked with.

But I think the basic problem is that Dukakis didn't know how to use the media - and that's an unpardonable sin for a national candidate.

[Jeebo]

14. Being called "liberal" is not a "charge"...

Being called a "liberal" is not a "charge" to fight back against. If somebody asks me if I'm a liberal, I answer, "Yes, I am. I'm a flaming liberal, in fact. Are you a conservative?"

The way to deal with this "charge" is not to acknowledge that it's a "charge" at all. It's time for us to defend the lofty and noble principles of true liberalism.

Read Chapter 9, "A Liberal Paradise," in Michael Moore's book "Dude, Where's My Country?" And then tell me that liberals are out of touch with the U.S. political mainstream.

Ron

[Mick Knox]

19. To be frank.. its not you and other proud libs that are important..

You will be voting dem.. the dem base.. Dem strategists know this very well.

That will not win this election...

They must moderate Kerry somehow..

They must move him right.. they must most importantly ATTACK..

Not take breaks every other week.

Truman won against Dewey by getting his ass on a TRAIN and working that same ass off..

We got more than trains as a resource.. but we still need to work our ass off.

[Jeebo]

26. Yes, that IS what will win this election!

<< You will be voting dem.. the dem base.. Dem strategists know this very well.

That will not win this election... >>

Oh, yes, it will TOO win this election. If we get our own people to support us and our candidate and get out and vote for our candidate on Nov. 2, that will be a HUGE step toward winning this election.

<< They must moderate Kerry somehow..

They must move him right. >>

No, we shouldn't move him right! We don't want our candidate to become another Republican! We must counter the myth that left is bad! We've got to stop allowing the right to define "liberal" in the American collective consciousness and then attacking us by attaching that label to us! "Liberal" is what true Democrats are, and because it's what we are, WE'VE got to start being the ones who define the term that describes us!

[lams712]

16. You make it sound like being a "liberal" is automatically bad....

....if that's the case then were all screwed. For me, John Kerry, despite some questionable votes, is tolerable because of his solid lifetime liberal voting record. He need to embrace it and define it for himself rather than let the right wing define it for him.

[BootinUp]

18. eye of the beholder

according to the majority of eyes in the US we are still the weaker party on National Security and we like to raise taxes. Of course its bullshit, but the candidates have to always work to change that image.

[mobuto]

20. Agreed

I think its silly for liberal to be a dirty word, but labels are really meaningless. They serve to divide Americans rather than accomplish goals. People who share every interest in the world with Senator Kerry will decide not to vote for him if they see him as a New England liberal. Why? There is no why - there's certainly no rational basis for that. But its a fact. I don't care about labels - John Kerry can call himself a National Socialist Ba'athist for all I care. What's more important is how he'll behave as President and what he needs to do to get elected.

[molly]

17. Don't you think Dukakis was more like one of the other

candidates? I do.

[David Zephyr]

21. Dukakis Cringed When George H. Bush Called Him A "Liberal"

during the debate out here at UCLA.

He ran from the term throughout the 1988 campaign. I remember being infuriated with the shame he projected for having been a liberal. His attempt to be "manly" and "war-like" by riding in a tank was a joke, by anyone's standard.

Dukakis was a liberal, yes. But he was not, as you say, "by his own admission" a liberal during that election. I think it cost him the election.

As the campaign wound up to the last weeks, Dukakis did begin to hit populist themes, liberal themes and his poll numbers rose proportionately.

You ask, what could Dukakis have done that he didn't do? Exactly what you are recommending that Kerry should do. Stand up for who you have been and tell the people WHY you are a liberal.

It's a great tradition. Americans need to know that the quality of their lives is because of (not in spite of) liberalism.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

23. I missed the Sunday debate.

...but this is worrisome.

"And frankly, Kerry's response to the "are you a liberal" question during Sunday's debate doesn't give me much confidence that he's figure out a way to "fight back" against these charges. The fact is, he avoided answering the question. He tried to change the subject by talking about Bush."

This plays into the "waffling" "flip-flop" stigma/charge that Bush is laying for him.

[Festivito]

24. Was Dukakis allegated to have mental illness by WT.

Did the Mooney paper imply or say then retract that Dukakis had mental illness help.

The same paper that started a lie about Al Gore lying. They said Al Gore lied about finding Love Canal when Al said nothing of the sort.

Makes me wonder what they'll do to Kerry.

[notbush]

30. The charge was

against Kitty (his wife)....What I remember she had been treated for some mental problem.

[pmbryant]

25. It ain't 1988 anymore!

One example does not a trend make. Especially when it was 16 years ago, with different people, in extremely different circumstances.

--Peter

[sistersofmercy]

27. Dukakis didn't lose because of the liberal label

It was the Willie Horton thing and he didn't sling mud back.

[mobuto]

29. If Kerry can do one thing well

its fight back. That's why I don't think he'll be another Dukakis. When he's attacked, he fights back all that much harder. He did it to Weld, he did it to Dean, he'll do it to Bush. Its almost as if he feeds on it - and I think that's great.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. He was the most significant victim

of the Democrats' acceptance of the idea that being a liberal is evil.

The first time Reagan said the word "liberal" with a sneer, the Dems should have risen with one voice and said, "Damn right we're liberal--and we're proud of our contributions to American society!"

Instead, they practically fell all over one another proclaiming themselves to be "moderates" or "centrists." As if Ronald Reagan held the wisdom of the world in his already decaying brain. I spent so much time cringing during the 1980s that my shoulders are almost permanently hunched.

I don't remember who said it, but there's a saying, "Nobody will respect you if you don't respect yourself."

Besides, the Democrats are supposed to be more liberal than the Republicans.

[Octafish]

31. It wasn't the "Liberal" label that clobbered Dukakis.

It was when Reagan said he wouldn't pick on a "mental invalid."

Remember, Dukakis had to get "counseling" after his brother was killed by a hit-and-run driver? Bush and the BFEE (his CIA-Mafia-NAZI-KKK band of brothers did all they could to spread the word that Dukakis was nuts.

That was lower and more effective than the Willie Horton and Boston Harbor smears combined. You can throw in the country singer who said she couldn't even pronounce "Dukakis" and you start to get some pretty solid contamination of the electorate.

Well, they say paybacks are a bitch. The converted Atwater can't be with us today, but his heirs in the forms of Rove and the crazy moron are. And they are stuck in the water, and we are closing at flank speed.

EDIT: Practically the whole thing. Even though now there are three buttons to choose from, I still hit the wrong one most of the time.