My arguement for Graham as a good choice as VP...

[AmyStrange]

him and Dean were buddies and agreed on many of the same things. He was against the war (and even voted against it) and is fiscally responsible and even called for the impeachment of Bush during his Meet the Press interview. He was the Gov of Florida, before he became Senator, and he would help bring the party towards the center a little, and there are a lot of folks in Florida who love him dearly and that would be a big psychological boost for alot of dems considering 2000. He's also a Nascar nut and was on a security committe concerning national security during the Iraq war build up.

d

[FloridaPat]

1. The news today mentioned Gephart as a really good choice.

I almost got sick to my stomach.

[liberalmike27]

2. Well

I'm not too thrilled with Kerry, but Graham would be a pitiful choice as VP. He's just kind of quirky, in a Kucinich kind of way, turned down a bit. Gephardt, have to agree, brings up bile to my throat to think about it. Bayh (sp?), who's Bayh? Dean'd be great, would solve the angst that I, and many other Deaniacs who are flirting with Nader feel, but, that'd never happen. Truth is, I don't really think it matters, but Edwards is probably as good as anyone. I think he already effectively eliminated him, by his comment during the campaign about him not being experienced enough. Oddly, I really don't care. Feeling rather listless since Dean's execution. DLC should have thought about it a bit more before they ran those pre-Iowa commercials.

[AmyStrange]

10. not pitiful at all...

him and Dean have alot in common. Fiscal conservative,voted against the war, both governors and they would both have (against some folks opinions) shifted Kerry more center.

just my opinion,

d

[Gman]

3. One word for why Graham would be best for VP

Florida

[AmyStrange]

13. It's atleast worth considering...right?

it's a good strategic move...

d

[MurikanDemocrat]

4. Hi Dave!

:hi:

I have mixed feelings about Florida. Really iffy about it with a Bush crime figure running the election apparatus down there. Have they started scrubbing the voter rolls yet? Last I knew they never stopped illegal tactics used in 2000 even though courts advised them too.

I think it was "Best Democracy Money Can Buy" that outlined all the illegal shit they still get away with down there, and did still in 2002. It was a good book, although maddening.

[AmyStrange]

7. Greg Palast...

:hi:

I have a signed copy of his book "Best Democracy Money Can Buy" and have shaken his hand and listened to him speak. Bev Harris has still to sue him.

!!!! GO GREG !!!!

[MurikanDemocrat]

9. Bev Harris still has to sue him???

I'm not up on all her work, frankly. I know the name though and know she is instrumental in the touch screen voting issues.

BTW congrats on the Palast autograph. I am truly jealous!

[AmyStrange]

11. Bev Harris was the FL Secretary of State...

during the 2000 election and (as you know in charge of voting) she virtually authorized the massive purge of voters from the list that Greg was talking about,

d

(pssst Greg is a really nice guy)

[MurikanDemocrat]

14. No no no! You are thinking of KATHERINE Harris

Cruella de Harris.

BEV Harris is a good guy - with Black Box Voting - voter fraud.

[AmyStrange]

16. You are so right...

amd that's such a bad gaffe on my part. CRAP! Why do I keep thinking of the name Bev instead of Katherine.

Thanx for correcting me my friend,

d

[elsiesummers]

17. Bev Harris is not Katherine Harris - Online Journal - a DU kinda place.

Bev Harris - some may think she's too over the top, but she's definitely a good guy and on the Democrat's team.

[elsiesummers]

5. Graham is not a good choice for three reasons.

First: Graham, as noted above, is quirky (the journals) and ripe for an attack as a conspiracist nut bag - and he brings this on himself by speaking the truth.

Second: Graham is not a good campaigner - he comes off unsure and inarticulate - and off message. There are at least ten Democrats who could do a better job of selling the ticket. Don't make me list them - but I will if necessary. Cheney will clean Graham's clock in a debate - and it will just suck to sit there and watch that - none of us deserve that sort of torment.

Third: We need to stop focusing on Florida. One of the recent polls of Kerry versus Bush listed Bush as five points ahead of Kerry, while Kerry was polling nationally at 54/45. (sorry I don't have a link - but this is out there somewhere in the ether.) Plus, with Jeb in charge, and after the 2000 Gore nightmare, let's not go there - let's find another way.

Fourth: (Ok I lied, there are always more points once you start thinking about it) Graham is not in the best of health - the bovine heart valve and all that. Maybe this wouldn't be important if Kerry hadn't recently had cancer, but this isn't the case.

Fifth: Graham, on a regional basis, would have made more sense as Veep for Edwards, Dean or Clark, would add political insiderism or gravitas, but with Kerry - Florida won't be in play and Graham adds nothing. Need to thow in this towel and concentrate on the Midwest, IMO.

Sixth: He is dull - no - he is dull dull - it's the all Dole ticket - Hell, why not bring Gephardt on board instead to add a little excitement?

[AmyStrange]

8. because Gephart...

wouldn't bring in as much of the Dean folks (myself included) like a Graham ticket would bring. You underplay the frustration of 2000.

Worth discussing in my opinion and not tossed aside without a second look,

d

[elsiesummers]

15. There are three good choices for Kerry

Edwards, Gephardt and Richardson.

I'm a big Edwards fan - think he has national appeal - Highly charismatic and speaks to core Dem issues - but admit he won't bring NC to Kerry. Honestly, I think Edwards is a better pres than vice-pres -but Kerry could sure use a little of his common touch.

Gephardt - just play with the map on Edwards site and tell me how Gephardt is not a good pick. Missouri could win the whole bag - and maybe he helps with Iowa and Ohio too. Gephardt grew up middle class and he brings a lot of mainstream credibility - and he'd be a great campaigner.

I know Richardson took himself off the table and suggested Bayh, not a week ago, on Cnn Inside Politics - but who knows - he might change his mind.



After this the choices become weaker:
Clark - not a good campaigner- but good resume and he might learn - could result in constant Clark dammage control - so iffy.

Graham - Dull, weird, and no more Fla - please - it's Jeb country.

Bayh - DLC all the way - but has a big pot o' dough - we lose another Senate seat.

Breaux - good strategic choice -LA - but not pro-choice so big big yuck.

Dean - we could do a lot worse - no regional value but gotta love this guy.

Rendell - no national name recognition - he'd lock up PA - might help with Ohio - he's a great campaigner - very macho - a bit too pro-business.

Warner - no national name recognition - Gov of VA - the state that selects Dem Govs and Pub Prezs - maybe he could bring VA for Kerry with Kerry's military creds.

[AmyStrange]

18. Graham was the Gov of Florida long before Jeb...

and alot of people there still love the guy alot. Him and Dean have been budies since the beginning and see eye to eye on the iraq war (almost) and fiscal responsibility. It's worth talking about. Did you see his economic plan? His health plan? He's Nascar... and make Kerry's liberal perceptions a little more center.

Just a thought and please don't just blow him off ok,

d

[elsiesummers]

20. On Tuesday night I watched Graham on two Networks

And I have seen him over the past few years many Sunday mornings. He is our Richard Lugar (why the hell do the Pubs send that guy out to speak for them anyway?)

It doesn't matter if I, personally, blow him off.

But I sure think he was awful, just awful, on TV.

If I really believed that Graham could deliver Florida, I wouldn't care that he is inarticulate because it just wouldn't matter. I simply think that Jeb's gonna have his way down there and Kerry, in particular, needs to write the Fla strategy off. Plus, recent polls have shown that Florida is unfortunately trending more Republican.

I have no reason to doubt Graham's abilities as a human being - I simply don't think he's a winning candidate.

We need someone who either (1)brings a state or (2)inspires the masses or (3)brings lots of cash. In a way I don't think it even matters that I argue against Graham, because those inside the Kerry campaign will see all of this anyway. It's not that I think Graham's a bad guy - simply not a winning candidate.

[elsiesummers]

22. You want Dean

bring in Dean. Graham is no Dean. Dean has much more to offer than Graham. Write Florida off and then consider that Graham is quirky and Dean can be rehabilitated.

Graham is not a good choice, and not as good a choice as Dean.

[Bombtrack]

6. Amen, I've been posting many threads advocating why Graham is

by far the best choice.

[AmyStrange]

12. Then you are the one to be thanked and Amen'd...

and not me,

d

[ringmastery]

19. If he's so dull and weird and such a horrible campaigner

How the hell did he win 2 statewide governor elections and 3 senate elections in the 4th largest state in the union, many in landslides well over 60%???

[elsiesummers]

21. This is a good question and I would like to know the answer.

Maybe the answer lies with his opponents? Maybe it's a regional thing?

I would like to know. Really.

But, Graham is dull and a bit weird.

No one should take my word for it. Just watch him with your mind open to the best possibilities. You will see.

Why do you think his campaign failed so quickly? Part of it, IMO, was the bovine heart valve - which is not his fault. The other part was him - the dull and weird part.

There are so many better candidates than Graham. I'm not saying this makes him less of a Senator or a Democrat - he simply doesn't play well on tv.

[AmyStrange]

23. they said the same thing about Dean...

except the boring part.

I'm a Dean fan so please don't blow me up ok,

d