african american DUers speak up

[windansea]

correct me if I'm wrong...but I am not seeing a lot of posts here from african americans...I see a lot of posts discussing how to win the south, AAforX candidate websites...but little input from AA DU members and what they think.

I want to hear from you...who you support...and why

[windansea]

1. kick

[windansea]

2. double kick

[xultar]

79. tripple kick

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[Melinda]

3. I thought ya meant "Alcoholics Anonymous" members and I had to look

My bad, sorry!

[windansea]

4. thanks changed title n/t

[angee_is_mad]

5. AA 4 Clark

I have made a few posts about my views and concerns about our party. Of course I have also been bashed for my views by others who are EXTREMELY passionate about their candidates if my views differed from them.

I have even been told that I wasn't a representative for all African Americans(I never pretended to be)if I questioned the comments that their candidate had made. Particularly when the comments affect the feelings of the African American community.

[windansea]

7. guess what angee

anyone here who tells you that you have no voice...

I will personally kick their ass....tell me what you think

[angee_is_mad]

9. lol, thank you!!!!

The democratic party is suppose to be about diversity. So it is very sad when no votes have been cast, people on here attack others whose views differ from their own.

I feel that we need passion back in the democratic party, but that passion should be directed toward regaining the Whitehouse and Congress. That means sitting back and objectively looking at the candidates that could compete with Bush on all levels. That should be the candidate that could campaign in the states where senate seats are up for grabs and could help regain or maintain those seats.

If we win the Whitehouse and lose filibuster control in the house, it will be the same old, same old. It may even be worse than it is now! This is may worse fear.

[windansea]

11. you got that right

so tell me...who do you like?

[Myra]

14. I thought angee_is_mad answered that in her subject line "AA 4 Clark"

Did I misunderstand?
(Sorry if I did angee...)

[angee_is_mad]

21. The General

I was looking at Dean this summer, but his campaign and statements force me to take another look at the other candidates. When Clark officially entered the race and I listened to what he had to say and the dignified way his campaign was being run my choice was easy.

I feel that with Clark we have the best chance to go against Bush. He may not have the war chest as some of the other candidates, but he is the most well rounded of all the others I feel. Also, in the states that have vulnerable senate seats I feel that the candidates that are running for those seats would not try to distance themselves from him. They would proudly ask for his support. It would not be like when Gore tried to distance himself from Clinton to his own deteriment.

But of course since I am a diehard democrat I respect other opinions that differ from my own and I would vote for the democratic nominee. I just pray that others would do the same, even if their candidate lost the nomination. The main thing is to win in the upcoming elections, and quite frankly things are not looking too good for us right now.

[windansea]

23. I'm so glad to hear what you think

your opinion so gracefully expressed...so humble...

spoken like a true democrat!

[angee_is_mad]

24. thank you

and thanks for the great post.

[windansea]

26. no prob angee

tell you what...we are going to continue this discussion

I like Clark too...and I urge you to speak up...make posts...let your position be known...if you have been intimidated in the past

there are TONS of people here that will support you

like me...:)

[Myra]

25. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts angee...

I just want to give this a kick so it doesn't get lost in
the, unfortunately essential 'Merkan chore, of paying for a
presidential campaign.

And I'd love to hear from more people.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

98. Obsession is an ugly thing.

Boring, too.

[Loren645]

105. shivaji, I can't tell if your post is a joke or not.

Either way it's not funny...

[Jerseycoa]

6. Good idea

:kick:

[windansea]

8. kick

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rowdyboy]

12. All decent Americans would find that trash objectionable...

Whether black, white, or purple. The poster is despicable and a MULTITUDE of Clark supporters have called him for it.

[WillyBrandt]

16. You're missing the point

Watch. It's propaganda in action. He has posted that link, with roughly identical text, at least four times now.

Do you want a lie to become the truth? Just repeat it.

That is what Scott Lee is going with that horrid photo. Smear artistry in progress.

[WillyBrandt]

13. Smear artistry 101

Man, you're posting that garbage everywhere.

One more time for those tuning in the for the first time. A freeper poser comes posing, transparently, as a Clark supporter, and posts a disgusting image.

Scott Lee pretends to think that this is a real supporter. Then goes and smears all Clark supporters by associating us with that creep.

It's disgusting.

[Myra]

17. Classic good news/bad news.

I have someone on ignore/therefore I seem to have missed something.

More good than bad I think.

[WillyBrandt]

18. You are smarter than I am.

Much smarter. Damn!

[5thGenDemocrat]

42. You mean (ahem) a certain S.L.?

Shoo -- I put his ass on ignore a L-O-O-N-G time ago, along with 60 or 70 other people. My attitude is EVER so much better and I haven't been unduly snotty with anyone (I don't think) for eight or nine days now.
I guess I could get an argument about that, but the odds are very very good that the prospective arguer is already on said list. So there is that.
John
It's kind of like my personal life -- if I wouldn't invite you into my house, why would I invite you onto my computer?

[Myra]

44. :) Nicely said 5thGenDemocrat

At a certain point, we have all the info we need from a source.

[Jerseycoa]

56. Me, too

Then I rarely know what's going on. But it is more peaceful and I find myself being kinder. :)

[Kahuna]

91. I decided today to use that ignore feature more liberally..

:hi:

[DancingBear]

68. We must have broken computers

I have the same "problem". :)

[cally]

86. I have the same problem

Some posts never show up on my computer. ;-)

[Kahuna]

92. Hi Cally! Happy New Year to you!

:toast:

[cally]

94. Happy New Year to you!

Such a nice response to my post. :toast:

[windansea]

15. get lost n/t

[windansea]

19. tell you what man

you deserve to be banned

[windansea]

20. kick

:kick:

[windansea]

22. zomby woof kick n/t

[Myra]

28. Importance kick

My god this is a hectic place tonight.

[xultar]

78. kick

:kick:

[ClarkUeberAlles]

27. General Wesley Clark

Partly because he has the best chance to win even though I don't agree with all his positions. The 2004 election is crucial and I just don't believe in making votes for the person you like the most without considering his electability. Fortunately, in Clark's case I like him the most.

My other reason for voting for him is the fact he devoted over 30 years of his life to the military even though he could have gotten out much earlier and been a millionaire. I like that he wanted to go into kosovo to stop milosevic and not for american financial gain (I read somewhere that he suggested to the military brass that we go into rawanda too, does anybody know more about that?) I like that he hasn't been a lifelong politician, he seems to really believe in democracy and the system.

If any politician told me they wanted to be president to make things better and not for power I would immediately assume their lying, but with Clark, I really believe he was humbled by the Draft movement and feels he's being called for one last battle. The battle for the soul of america.

And also, the U.S. military is the most integrated institution in America and Clark has not only worked with blacks and supervised blacks, he's worked under them too. I know he views blacks as people, not some abstract voting black. You should watch his biography and listen to the testimonial from the retired black woman officer. Her testimonial reflects a lot more on Clark's character than politicans saying "I support affirmative action".

[windansea]

29. you are soooooooooo right

thanks for the post!

[angee_is_mad]

30. I agree!

[Myra]

31. Yes ClarkUeberAlles. The Rwandan civil war. Here you go.

"I read somewhere that he suggested to the military brass
that we go into rawanda too, does anybody know more about that?"

True.

"Colleagues and critics of Clark say the general's experience negotiating the Dayton Peace Accords changed him for good, transforming him from a military man into a general-diplomat who could never simply salute and follow orders again.

Another experience from that period, the unwillingness of the U.S. or United Nations (news - web sites) to intervene to stop the massacre of 800,000 people in the Rwandan civil war in 1995, seared in Clark a personal conviction to never let inaction have such grievous consequences again. To Clark's critics, this became proof of a tendency to let his personal moralism interfere with military policy."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2027&ncid=2043&e=7&u=/chitrib_ts/20031230/ts_chicagotrib/wesleyclarktheantiwargeneral

[windansea]

33. personal moralism

sounds like my kind of guy

doing what's right...no need for focus groups

[ClarkUeberAlles]

37. My thoughts exactly, he's operating from the heart

[ClarkUeberAlles]

34. Thank You Myra

[Myra]

38. Thank *you* ClarkUeberAlles

Very much.

[xultar]

81. kick

:Kick:

[Myra]

32. ClarkUeberAlles, could you please elaborate on "the retired black woman.."

"the retired black woman officer"?

I don't know about that, but I'd like to.

Thank you.

[ClarkUeberAlles]

36. american son

If you watch his biography American Son at his website, there's a testimonial froma a Maj. Patricia Willimas (Ret.), she talks about how Clark actually called washington and was asking how come his division didn't have any minority officers and he requested them. I read that this division she's talking about was one that was apparently a career booster if you could get into it.

She said that in most assignments when you show up people are like "A woman? A minority?", but Clark wasn't like that.

[Myra]

41. Ohmygod, I haven't even watched his bio yet. I forgot about it...

Thank you for the info ClarkUeberAlles.
Now I have to see it.

[Myra]

35. More about Rwanda. Quote from author Samantha Power.

I swiped this from Clark's blog.
And I don't actually have Power's book.
But I did see her introduce General Clark after his testimony
in the Hague. And she said all the same things:

"Samantha Power's meticulously researched and notated 600+ page Pulitzer prizewinning tome,
"A Problem from Hell: America in the Age of Genocide."

General Clark is one of the heroes of Samantha Power's book. She introduces him on the second page of her chapter on Rwanda and describes his distress on learning about the genocide there and not being able to contact anyone in the Pentagon who really knew anything about it and/or about the Hutu and Tutsi. She writes, "He frantically telephoned around the Pentagon for insight into the ethnic dimension of events in Rwanda. Unfortunately, Rwanda had never been of more than marginal concern to Washington's most influential planners" (p. 330).

He advocated multinational action of some kind to stop the genocide. "Lieutenant General Wesley Clark looked to the White House for leadership. 'The Pentagon is always going to be the last to want to intervene,' he says.
...
According to Power, General Clark was already passionate about humanitarian concerns, especially genocide, before his appointment as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO forces in Europe. When genocide began to occur in the Balkans, he was determined to stop it.

She details his efforts in behalf of the Dayton Peace Accords and his brilliant command of NATO forces in Kosovo. Her chapter on Kosovo ends, "The man who probably contributed more than any other individual to Milosvevic's battlefield defeat was General Wesley Clark.
...
Yet in Washington Clark was a pariah. In July 1999 he was curtly informed that he would be replaced as supreme allied commander for Europe. This forced his retirement and ended thirty-four years of distinguished service. Favoring humanitarian intervention had never been a great career move."

http://blog.forclark.com/story/2003/11/28/81836/095


(I'm letting this be a fairly long quote, since I don't
think there are copyright issues.)

[ClarkUeberAlles]

39. That's why I believe in him

I don't know if he'll be the greatest president ever, but he has SO much potential to be. He can make america a force for real good in the world.

[windansea]

40. muchas gracias myra

the more we here the better to understand!

[Myra]

43. Muchas gracias back atcha windansea

This has become a special night on DU thanks to this thread.

Let's try to make it the norm.

[windansea]

45. back at you

let me at them!

[Jerseycoa]

57. I'm just now reading her book

It's fascinating and horrible. It does seem Rwanda had an electrifying effect on Wes. It's almost as if, after that, he came out guns blazing. I've been wondering if it's what is at the base of his battle with the Pentagon?

[redqueen]

69. Whaaaa?!

Clark -- whoa -- he actually tried to get Rwanda some help? I... I'm speechless. I just about fell off my chair!!!!

God bless him. He just went up to No 2 in my book. :)

[Jerseycoa]

72. Good for you and your open mind

He is so much more than anybody expects. :)

[redqueen]

74. Well I tell ya, we've got a great field, differences be damned

But this just takes the cake. The constant cold shoulder Rwanda gets never failes to infuriate me, and for someone of his standing to have at least tried to do something... that really means a LOT.

I know I seem to carp on just about every other candidate. But hey, I'm a perfectionist. You should see how hard I am on me!!!

But the truth is I'd give my left leg to have any of them take the reins in '04. I'll work my a$$ off for any of them after the convention, and this will make working for Clark SO much more pleasant!!!!

Go Clark! :yourock:

[Jerseycoa]

76. I felt that way about Liberia, too

I was so proud when Clark said this:

"The military industrial complex is bigger and more powerful than it was in Eisenhower's time," Clark said recently at a campaign event.  He directly related this fact to the choice of military action taken by the current administration, saying, "In (a place) like Liberia, there is no profit to be made," and so the military industrial complex decides against intervention.

[redqueen]

77. No doubt about it. No. 2 with a bullet!

Thanks for the info, Jerseycoa! This is terrific!!!! :D

[Myra]

89. It sounds as though Rwanda was a career ending issue for him.

At least that's the impression Samantha Power's comments give.

[wndycty]

46. As an African American Duer

I am under the understanding that my feelings as an AA are not valid on the DU unless they are approved by a white DUer (most likely a Dean supporter) who believes that my opinions reflect what they believe they should be.

[ClarkUeberAlles]

47. I think that

is because some people cannot fathom why any AA would NOT support Dean. After all, he is the only white politican to talk about race to other white people.

[angee_is_mad]

49. yeah RIGHT!

and I have a bridge to sell you.

[Jerseycoa]

84. Look

"Dr. Dean's strategy in the state seems more focused on uniting working-class Southerners for a November general election face-off with President Bush than attracting the African-American votes essential to winning the Democratic primary.

Both in Florence, where blacks make up 40 percent of the population, and in Georgetown, which is 57 percent African-American, the crowds that turned out were nearly all white. Dr. Dean and his aides have frequently said they do not expect black voters to come to campaign rallies in large numbers, and that they plan to have black legislators and ministers do outreach for them.

Tuesday's appearance made it clear that some voters were still trying to sort out the candidates. Ernest Nance, 69, who lives in Wedgefield, said of Dr. Dean: "He's solid, and he's from North Carolina."

Actually, that is Senator John Edwards."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/31/politics/campaigns/31TRAI.html?pagewanted=2



:D

[angee_is_mad]

48. So it's happened to you too?

Well we all have a voice and without the AA vote the democratic party would be nothing.

The party just need to be reminded(often) so that they can stop taking our votes for granted. And then marginalize our opinions when we call them up on their insensitivities to their loyal base, just so they can try to get votes that the republicans have locked up.

[Myra]

50. Ohmygod wndycty

It makes me crazy when I feel like someone/anyone is
trying to intimidate me out of saying what I think.
And it makes me crazy when I see it happening to others.

Thanks for speaking up.

[wndycty]

55. I know what you mean. . .

. . .because of our race people expect all of us to think a certain way. Whats frustrating is that many who hold this opinion are in fact Black.

[windansea]

51. guess what

there is not the smallest chance that ANYONE can silence you

[Jerseycoa]

58. Ha!

I was just thinking: Wndycty? Silenced?

:D

[wndycty]

61. Me silenced? Ha is right. . .

. . .I will not sit down, I will not shut up!

[Jerseycoa]

63. And bless you for it :) nt

[Myra]

88. Excellent.

Most excellent.

[incapsulated]

113. Hehe..

;)

Well, I'm only half black, so my opinions mean even less!

[Jerseycoa]

120. You're so cute, incapsulated :)

Why don't you photoshop your cheerleader half-black? ;)

[incapsulated]

126. I'm making a bunch of them...

Different kinds of fun Clark graphics, they will be multi-cultural! (but I have a soft spot for tacky 50's graphics). :)

[Jerseycoa]

131. I guess

you like '50s pin-ups? I do, too, especially the ones where the skirt is caught in a file drawer, a bus door, anywhere a skirt can possibly get caught.

:D

[incapsulated]

133. I'm one of...

the biggest straight female fans of pin-up art you're going to find, heh. The classics are great. The modern stuff also has some of the best illustrators around as well (good thing it's still popular, gives illustrators a job!)



 
 
 
 

[auburnblu]

127. Wndycty, you seem to be on to something

Why does it always seem in politics that Republicans could care less about helping minorities move ahead and listening to their concerns. But at the same time, many white Democrats seem to approach minorities with the "you beter think like I want you to think" attitude. Its time both Republicans AND Democrats really started treating various demographic groups with true levels of respect.

I'm kind of offended by the original post in this thread. What makes anyone think DU members that just happen to also be African-American aren't posting on this forum. Is there some rule that says, if you are an African-American you have to identify yourself as such everytime you post.

[windansea]

129. I posted it to get some dialogue going

on AA issues...which I haven't seen much of here

sorry if I offended you :)

[angee_is_mad]

130. well, I am not offended

as a matter of fact your post energized me. We just need to make sure we read the rules so that messages will not get deleted!

[windansea]

132. yikes

that was post #666

I also just started a thread on the Black & Brown Presidential Forum Jan 11 in Iowa

:)

[Myra]

52. My god, look at this number...

"Another experience from that period, the unwillingness of the U.S. or United Nations to intervene to stop the massacre of 800,000 people..."

800,000

[windansea]

53. goodnight Myra

stay tuned cuz I am going to set off a few nukes in this place in the next few days...invite your friends ok?

peace :dem:

[Myra]

54. Goodnight windansea

I'm so tuned.

Sweet dreams...

[angee_is_mad]

95. can't WAIT!!!!!!!!!

[windansea]

96. not tonight

I want maximum exposure

enjoy the night!



:toast:

[Jerseycoa]

107. Happy New Year, windansea

and everybody on this shake'em up thread.

:beer:

[Loren645]

108. Tease...

How about a hint???

:)

[auburnblu]

128. The U.S./UN and yes even French inaction was tragic

Clinton did a lot of great things as President, but U.S. inaction in Rwanda was a failure in the highest order. There are those who think the U.S. military should never act, well those with that belief got their wish and 800,000 deaths resulted from U.S. inaction.

I do wonder why the U.S. intervened in the former Yugoslavia and not Rwanda. I'm glad the U.S. helped prevent a bigger tragedy in Eastern Europe, but why was Rwanada ignored. And its not just the U.S. who ignored Rwanda, so did pretty much the rest of the world. The French and U.S. have tried to help out more with recent hot spots such as Liberia and DR Congo.

[Jerseycoa]

135. Rwanda was a deep shame

Clinton was simply wrong. Liberia is almost as bad. That ship full of Marines offshore when people were dying practically within sight of it was among the most cynical things I've ever seen.

[xultar]

59. You wanna know why you don't hear from AA's here...READ THIS!!!

There were lots of Dean supporters trying to prove why Dean is good for African Americans. To prove this they'd go and find pictures of African Americans and post them and say...See here are African Americans, or they'd go to the AA for Dean sites and say SEE here are some African Americans who say Dean is good for African Americans. When I spoke up and confronted the fact that they were not African American here's the response I received....

I'm an American - and you are a lackluster fuckwit.
From: Mr. X (Changed the DU user name to protect the guilty)
Date: Dec 21st 2003


Thank you for showing us exactly who we DON'T want voting in the next election.

You proposing to posit yourself as spokesperson for the entire Black community is by far one of the dumbest mails I've received. Can you imagine my attempting to speak for all whites? Absurd. Absurd as your inane insinuation.

I also wonder how many Blacks would respond to your implication that a Dean support site created by other Blacks was akin to a KKK site for whites. You are clearly a complete moron.

You owe all thinking people an apology for taking up valuable space, and my time. And one more thing - note that you started a feud with me. I will not only rise to the occassion but will stuff your insipid, racist posts on DU with regularity unless you apologize for your brainless mail message.



Mr. X

Here is my original PM

>Don't ever post anything trying to prove a point regarding
>something you don't know anything about. IF a Black Dean
>supporter wanted to post it...Fine. None did. We can speak
>for ourselves thank you. We don't need anyone going to get
>information for us and telling us what we should think. You
>should apologize to me and the other African Americans here @
>DU for the nonsense you posted.
>
>AGAIN, Let us decide what is important to our community
>regardless of the candidate.
>
>That's like me going to get some KKK stuff and saying See
>that's why all White people are racist. I'm smart enough to
>know that the KKK doesn't speak for all of you as you should
>know not all Black organizations speak for all blacks.
>
>Don't be ignorant and insensitive.

Now...I've asked AA DH supporters to contact me and to speak out for themselves. I even went on the DH for America Blog and asked the AAs there to speak out. None have. Why is that?

If you wonder why AAs don't speak out. Ask MR X. He gives us good reason to stay hidden here @ DU.

[wndycty]

60. Mr. X is pretty ignorant. . .

"Thank you for showing us exactly who we DON'T want voting in the next election."

That line alone was enough to make me go through the roof.

[xultar]

62. I want to make sure everyone here @ DU knows who is among us...

If this guy is a Democrat...I'm in the wrong party.

[Myra]

67. xultar, please report this to a moderator.

Forward the PM to a moderator so they can take appropriate action.
DU will be much better off once they take appropriate action...

And please don't let one asshole, or any number of assholes, force
you to stay hidden.

[xultar]

75. Kick! I'm gonna keep this tread kicked for a while. I want

all the DUers especially DH supporters to see this and be outraged, if they can manage some objectivity.

[Myra]

80. Kick

For as long as it takes.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Loren645]

104. I've been curious about The Black Commentator

Because they're very outspoken.
I don't know what to think of them.

[revcarol]

106. Refer to my post #104

and see what you think of that article from The Black Commentator.

[Tom Rinaldo]

111. I am curious too. One article really bothered me

First let me say that I'm not African American, so I wasn't planning to participate on this thread. Just an allied lurker I guess. However many months ago a friend emailed me something from "The Black Commentator" about Wesley Clark, and she wanted to know what I thought of it. She didn't know much about Clark at that time, so I read the piece, which had the title "Dishonest to the Core and Probably Nuts", and it was an attack on Wesley Clark. She emailed it to me on October 21st, not long after Clark entered the race.

The first thing that struck me, obviously, was the title. Not so much the "Dishonest" part, but the "and probably nuts" comment; this describing a man who was head of Strategic planning for the Joint Chiefs of Staff and went on to be NATO Supreme Commander. There was nothing in the article to back that slur, it was just tacked onto the title. Later I read an insightful interview in Buzzflash
with the co-author of "Hunting the President", Gene Lyons where he outlines the attack campaign the Republicans will use against Clark, among other things. This is dated October 22, 2003:

BUZZFLASH: You're probably one of the most well-informed journalists on how attack politics play themselves out with a culpable media, based on your extensive research and writing on the Clintons. How do you think the right wing is going to go after Clark? What can he expect? What advice would you give Clark and the people who are working for him?

LYONS: Well, the outlines of it are already evident. They're saying he's too tightly wrapped, which is kind of akin to what they tried to do with John McCain. They're saying he's a zealot and tends to become unhinged. They're suggesting he's crazed with ambition.

I wrote in a column a couple of weeks ago that one of their lines of attack would be to portray him as sort of General Jack D. Ripper, who was the megalomaniacal general in Dr. Strangelove who was so concerned with his precious bodily fluids. And that's what I think they will try to do. They might go all the way to the edge of suggesting some kind of mental illness. I don't think he's very vulnerable to that sort of smear."
That link: http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/10/int03221.html

I read that last piece later, but it confirmed what I suspected, that Bush's team would go after Clark like they went after McCain in 2000. I am not saying that "The Black Commentator" is allied with Bush, just that the use of "nuts" against Clark rang a bell for me when I saw it. Anyway the text of the actual "Black Commentator" piece was a fairly skilled but I think deceptive attack on Clark that distorted his words and actions, adding dramatic commentary that slanted Clark's words, and reaching damaging and misleading conclusions that can clearly be refuted with a little effort. I saved the email reply I sent my friend after reading the piece, in case I ever confront that particular attack piece again.

[Loren645]

112. Thank you for this link Tom

I hadn't seen it.

[Jerseycoa]

114. The Black Commentator

It's a publication Dean supporters on DU refer to in support of their candidate doing best with the AA vote.

[windansea]

64. check out this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=45285&mesg_id=45285

the big dog is quiet...but on the prowl

[qwlauren35]

65. ABB first and foremost

I am African-American and while I have been a Dean supporter for many months, I'm not used to politics and the hostile bashing that it inspires. With that said, I've moved back to the more comfortable position of ABBOL. Anybody but Bush or Lieberman. From the reading I've done here, I really like Kucinich and I think we need more people like him in office, although I'm not convinced about his pro-choice views. I've heard great things about Kerry and would vote for him if he got the nod. I'm not that excited about Clark, but again, would vote for him. I'm praying that whoever gets the nomination picks a lily-white, male, Christian, Southern-friendly running mate, and having to say that makes my stomach twist. But again, it's all about Beating Bush, and if such a running mate gives us advantage, I want that advantage.

I could write PAGES about why I hate Bush, but only mere paragraphs about whom I want to replace him. I think that's why being here is often so hard for me. I know in my mind that there isn't as much to argue about when it comes to Bush because so many of us despise him and agreement makes for low board activity. But the candidate bashing and especially the supporter bashing is very, very hard for me to deal with. So I read more than I write. It's not like me to be quiet, but I prefer civil discourse over hostile dissent. I figure it will be safe to write in July.

[windansea]

66. thanks

yes it can get very heated on discussion boards like this...but the is a ton of good info and many knowledgable posters.

why did you back off Dean??

[qwlauren35]

70. I Just Got Tired.

I didn't like having to defend myself or him every time I turned around, I didn't like hearing all of the bashing, I didn't like feeling so alone in a crowd. I live in NC. It's a Republican state and the majority of Dems are backing Edwards. I also got VERY tired of being asked for money, especially without being able to see where it was going. I hated trying to worm around Civil Unions and seeing all of the homophobia that would come out if I didn't. I hated having to explain the Confederate Flag comment, even though I understood it. I hated watching Trippi denounce the Osama ad instead of using our campaign money to fight it.

I think I'll probably stick with Dean because I agree with most of what he says, including the cockroach comment. I'm disgusted with the folks who let us go to war with Iraq and signed Patriot Acts I & II. Including Hilary. I'm disgusted with the folks who okayed the recent Medicare bill. People talk about the idea that Dean sounds angry. Well ***I*** am very angry. So when Dean says we can change things, and we have a right to be angry about how things are with Bush in power, he's definitely got my vote.

[windansea]

71. understand

how's it looking for NC ?

[xultar]

82. kick

[Myra]

73. Thank you for your post qwlauren35

Much appreciated.

[Myra]

83. I'm very disgusted that Hillary signed the IWR as well.

And the orwellian Patriot Act Part 1.

[angee_is_mad]

100. I'm from NC too

and I even went to a Dean meetup this summer and joined an internet community of his. Needless to say, I was the only black at the meetup and I believe the only one in the community at that time.

At the meetup I never felt so invisible in my life and let me tell you I am not a wallflower! I was completely overlooked and ignored. I even made my feelings clear to the host of the event and told her that if she was trying to attract AA supporters the conduct displayed was not the way to do it. Slowly her eyes started to glaze over and I then know that she didn't have a clue about how I felt and the perception that I was getting about the situation!

I tried not to hold that bad experience against Dean because I was very energized by him at that time. But then I took the stars out of my eyes and really looked at him objective and what I saw made me rethink my position. Then the confederate flag statement was like the last straw for me.

I realized that the Dean base didn't look like me, think like me, and had no clue or maybe a desire to sincerely court the AA vote at that time. I felt that the campaign felt that after he got the nomination that AA would fall into place like we should. What other choice do we have? That's my impression of his campaign.

And no Lauren, being a southern AA I refuse to give him a break on the confederate flag statement!!! After he made that statement, I had family and friends looking at me like I was a complete idiot. They said "told you so!"

[revcarol]

103. If you doubt the pro-choice views of DK,

you might want to hit the feminists for kucinich site.They decided on WHAT they would like to see in a candidate and THEN matched it up with the candidate who most met their views.And DK won, hands down.And of course, being pro-choice was a prime criterion.From the view of a white person, lots of good stuff for AA's among others, but you make up your own mind.(Think I gave away my last copy, so can't give you the url.)

And check out this Black Commentator article: http://blackcommentator.com/58/58_cover_dems.html
Quote from the last page: Sharpton & Kucinich bring social justice to the national political conversation, for which they deserve our gratitude." Another: "Only two of ten candidates passed civilized muster..."

Happy reading!! Selecting a candidate to vote for IS hard work.

[Loren645]

109. I was sort of hoping this one thread could be free from lobbying revcarol

Am I the only one that hopes that?
(I'm not AA BTW.)

[revcarol]

110. Hey, I will speak up for my candidate

as one for African Americans to seriously consider.Have just been pointing to sources. They can look at them if they want to.Not trying to lobby as much as provide info. Sorry if I tweaked you.
Apologies if this was wrong.

[Jerseycoa]

115. As far as I know

You are welcome, revcarol. I hope so. :)

[revcarol]

85. As an aside,

has anyone checked out the Kucinich interview with Tavis Smiley and the African Americans for Kucinich link? on http://www.kucinich.us

Tell me what YOU think. This is YOUR thread.

[windansea]

87. I think DK is great

also Clark and Kerry

I started this thread cuz I don't see many posts here addressing african american issues and how AA DU members see the various candidates...

[Auntie Bush]

99. I'm also glad you started this thread

I learned a lot about how AA think and feel. I know how you feel about getting razzed on this site. The first time I posted...I was called a liar! That's kind of discouraging.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

GO WES GO

[windansea]

101. stay tuned

the AA vote is CRUCIAL to the success of any dem candidate who hopes to win the primaries....even more for the GE

kind of funny how this is BARELY addressed here in DU...the supposed hotbed of democratic activism

all concerned parties should get their facts and opinions ready to go

[Loren645]

102. Yes - thank you windansea

For starting this thread.

And thanks to everyone who is giving their opinions.

[Kahuna]

90. Present!

:hi:

[rogue emissary]

116. re:african american DUers speak up

There might not be a lot of posters willing to say their African Americans as no one can really prove what race they are on the net. I'm African American and support Dean because of his civil right positions. I think his specific positions to tackle racial profiling, bias in our criminal system and fighting racial disparities in medical field will do a lot for our community. Dean's attitudes on the deficit, military action and his campaign in general factor into my choice to support him.
:dem:

[Auntie Bush]

117. You could possibly change your mind if

you have really throughly checked out Clark and his attention to minorities and affirmative action.

I wish I had time to dig up all the things he hs done and believes in. But, maybe you have already done that! I hope you will keep an open mind...I'm sure you will.

[rogue emissary]

121. re:"You could possibly

hmm, I've checked out Clark and the rest of the candidate's sites weekly to see what they've purposed so I keep a very open mind. Just because I support Dean doesn't mean I'm against any of the other candidates. Been voting for Democrats since my eighteenths birthday and if Dean doesn't get the nomination I'd vote for any candidate that meets my agenda compared to bush.
:dem:

[xultar]

Good to hear from you. Did you see my post on the Dean blog

asking for AA Dean supporters to speak up. You wouldn't believe what the caucasian posters have been posting on your behalf. Please let your voice be heard so they don't speak for you.

Welcome to DU

[rogue emissary]

123. re:"Good to hear from you. Did you see my post on the Dean blog"

I don't usually read the Blogs on any of the candidate's sites. My focus is on the issues and positions that each of the candidates put forth. Thanks for welcome
:dem:

[xultar]

118. Good to hear from you. Did you see my post on the Dean blog

asking for AA Dean supporters to speak up. You wouldn't believe what the caucasian posters have been posting on your behalf. Please let your voice be heard so they don't speak for you.

Welcome to DU

[Kahuna]

122. Only thing is, Dean has never done anything to advance..

civil rights. Anywhere. The courts ordered civil unions in Vermont, not Dean. He had no choice but to sign it.

[Scott Lee]

125. He "had no choice" but to sign it? Come again?

You're mistaken.

As governor would have been within his rights to refuse to sign it. There is nothing legally compelling about that situation which would have landed him in jail had he not signed the measure.

Howard Dean is a long time friend and advocate of the Gay community. Several links to the effect have been posted by Brian_Expat.

Your contention that Howard Dean cares nothing about civil rights is patently false.

[Scott Lee]

119. African Americans for Dean speak up.....

Goodness what do we have here....why, it's Dean speaking to African Americans..

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=community_africanamericans


And what's this? Holy Toledo, some African Americans for Dean!

http://www.africanamericansfordean.com/


Don't like group-speak? How about a testimonial from an African American Dean supporter?

http://fortbendcountyyellowdogdemocrats.net/node/view/1620


Yes indeed, it sure looks like a lot of African Americans back Howard Dean. No wonder they do. He's the man for the job.

[bigtree]

124. kerry

Experience-

Committment-

Results-

Fighter-

Articulate-

( BTW: I don't need any snarky comments trying to convince me of Dean's experience as opposed to Kerry's or that of any others)

[okieinpain]

134. dean supporter, I love the fire in the man. I'll support whoever is

the nom, but I would rather go with dean.