Kerry Launches Impassioned Gay Rights Speech In Deep South

[Feanorcurufinwe]

After a speech in which he criticized President Bush's economic policy and for the war in Iraq, Kerry took questions from the members of the Greater Bethlehem Temple Pentecostal Church of the Apostolic Faith in Jackson.

One woman stood up and asked Kerry to distance himself from "homosexual activists" who compare gay rights to the civil rights movement." My point is homosexuality is an idea," she said. "You have never heard a doctor say, `Mr. and Mrs. John Doe, you have a bouncing baby homosexual.' It's an idea." Kerry said he believed that marriage should be preserved for "a man and a woman" and then launched into his most impassioned defense to date of gay rights.

He reminded the woman that African Americans were once denied entrance to universities, and insisted that just as the Equal Protection Clause protected them, so, too, should it protect the rights of gays and lesbians. "I believe it's important in the United States of America that we recognize that we have a Constitution which has an equal protection clause," Kerry said.

He then compared the "crucifixion of Matthew Shepard," the Wyoming 21-year-old gay man who was beaten, tied to a fence, and left to die in the fall of 1998, with the dragging death of an African-American Texan, James Byrd Jr., whose murder earlier in 1998 sparked new efforts for hate crimes legislation.

"The only point I want to make to you is," he told the woman, "I've talked to enough people — some of whom fought for their country in war — and I've talked to many of them who didn't discover their own sexuality until they were 35, 40 years old, and it wasn't because they made a choice, it was because they found out who they were. And I think you have to respect that that is the nature of it. And you can look at it, and argue it, but you know what, that's irrelevant to the argument. American citizens deserve the protection of the equal protection clause." His remarks drew strong applause from the predominantly African-American audience of 700.
http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/03/030804kerryGays.htm

[slinkerwink]

1. thanks awesome! Kerry should've said homosexuality is genetic

[WillyBrandt]

4. That's too complicated and unsettled a question

I think saying it's a part of people's identity that they discover is exactly right.

Wading into a nature/nurture debate about what makes gay people gay doesn't really make sense: the scientists can't give, uh, straight answers; politicians shouldn't even try.

[SoDesuKa]

6. Behavioral Genes

Behavioral genes pose all kinds of problems that make the idea somewhat unattractive. Feminists don't welcome the notion, for obvious reasons. The alternative is to say that all behavior is cultural, but there are problems with that as well. Most people mix and match from Column A and Column B, which unfortunately is not the way to the truth. Some options close off other options.

[Guaranteed]

17. I don't think it matters anyway.

So what if it's genetic? Is the argument supposed to be that it's "not their fault?" That seems to concede that there's something wrong with them.

How about, "Who CARES about their sexual orientation? They aren't hurting anybody, so mind your own goddamned business. Leave em alone." That's a better argument.

[Dookus]

10. It's unknown whether it's genetic

being inborn and genetic aren't the same thing.

It could well be hormonal activity in the womb, instead of genes.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

11. The important point is the constitution guarantees equal rights for all.

There is no clause in the 14th amendment that says 'except gay people'.

[Th1onein]

13. Hormonal activity in the womb?

I'm not disputing you, but exactly what road would this follow, to get to sexual preference?

[Dookus]

15. I'm not a biologist, so I can't answer

but here are some links:

http://www.gaymidlands.org/sexualorientation.html

Here's one that discusses a lot of intrauterine hormonal effects:

http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/stalkers/em_prnat.html



http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/timt/papers/twin_studies/theories.html

http://www.philosophy.ilstu.edu/horvath/PHI150/LeVayHamerByne.homobio.pdf

[ProudToBeLiberal]

2. Yay he's for gay marriages. Finally he comes to his senses.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. Did you honestly misread it?

[seabeyond]

3. ya but

when i heard him, he called byrd gay instead of black and by the name of the man who had been the murderer. so he has to get those facts straight. but yes, i liked what he said. it was a black woman who asked the question, so probably same thing

[Virginian]

5. Wow, that takes guts!

To defend gays in a Penecostal Church in the South.
That certainly doesn't sound like a man who takes both sides of an issue. He stood up for what was right even when it was a very unpopular viewpoint in that room.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

7. especially gay marriage

[Feanorcurufinwe]

9. What's your REAL point?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

12. that you're my hero

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. In that case keep going

Flatter me, I'll try not to be shy.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

18. glad you understood my point

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. What point? Did you make a point? What is it?

If you want to debate ideas, you have to actually state an idea, simply repeating phrases without shaping those phrases into a coherent argument is mere sloganeering.

[sangh0]

27. It's not the 1st Kerry has shown guts on GLBT issues

He was one of only 14 Senators that voted against DOMA, and he was the ONLY ONE who was facing re-election that year.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

16. Go RFK! He's going to have to speak on gay rights with every group

so I'm sure he's got a way to do it for each one.

The strategy with the Christian fundie condemners is to appeal to their sense of righteousness by asking them to be forgiving. This is tantamount to asking for pity but it is far more likely to work than trying to convince them that they are wrong.

As a campaign tactic, broaching this topic makes Kerry look courageous and principled and positive. (Positivism is always the big one. That was what Clinton was master of.)

He can take back the Bible along with the flag from the Repubs!

[fujiyama]

19. Good for Kerry!

I never really thought it mattered whether it was genetic or a preference, but I also guessed it was more of the former. Unfortunately, some bigots will also take this and twist it -- calling it a "genetic defect".

There was a very interesting animal several weeks ago in the NYT, regarding homosexuality in animals. It does exist and it has been documented for a while. It was considered very controversial so scientists, biologists, etc, just didn't want to make it a big deal.

[GOPBasher]

20. That's awesome that it drew applause.

That's the south we're talking about here.

[Zhade]

21. My head hurts. I can only imagine Kerry's does, too.

All that cognitive dissonance:

Kerry said he believed that marriage should be preserved for "a man and a woman" and then launched into his most impassioned defense to date of gay rights.

Since the GLBT movement considers same-sex marriage a right, isn't this a little contradictory? How can one give an "impassioned defense of gay rights", and disagree with one of the more fundamental rights as considered by queers like myself?

I'd ask Kerry the same question I ask anyone who wants to strictly define marriage as opposite-sex only: Are marriages all over the United States breaking up because of homosexuals?

Is there some kind of "gay allure" that causes the 50% divorce rate in the United States?

How, exactly, does homosexual marriage threaten an institution that's been around for so long? Is heterosexual marriage such a weak and flimsy construct that the unconnected act of two men or two women who love each other marrying causes wholesale breakdown of marriage between a man and a woman?

Why do heterosexuals feel so threatened by something that has essentially nothing to do with them?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

25. Maybe your head hurts because

you can't wrap it around the idea of tolerating a different viewpoint while working towards a shared goal, like ensuring that the protections of the 14th amendment extend to every US citizen.

[Hav]

26. .

Yes, it's somehow ironic that those who are asking for tolerance for their views are not tolerant themselves to those who have different opinions.
I can only assume but when Kerry says he believes that marriage is between a man and a woman, then it is his personal belief. It doesn't mean though that he will accept that there will be Americans who don't have the same rights.And as he said he will leave it to the states.
His opinion about marriage is his belief that one has to accept. Bush on the other hand seems to seek an Amendment to the Constitution to ban the whole thing, in all states.

[fiorello]

31. Go easy on 'em!

The best way to gain support for Kerry is with Kerry's own words! As in the original post.

If Kerry sticks to his positions and defends himself as a "liberal", then I'm sure he will earn the support of many 'doubters'. There is no need to fight with them.

This issue is especially hard for Gay people. Of course they want a full-throated endorsement of gay marriage. Kerry has a great record on gay rights - but he is still defending them as a minority that should be 'tolerated'. He has to - he's running for President, and his approach is the only way to win over gay-haters. But can you blame people for feeling hurt?

[Zhade]

38. Thank you, sanfo.

Thank you for recognizing that there are people like myself who have feelings. It's a much more progressive tack you're taking in your post, and I for one truly appreciate it.

[sangh0]

28. I find nothing inconsistent about

Surprisingly, different people have different ideas about what the phrase equal rights mean. Even more surprisingly, even the Supremem Court has a long history of disagreeing on the meaning of those words and their implications.

Some people don't see marriage as a political right, but instead as a religious institution. Others see it as a social contract. And others see it as a Constitutional right. The only reason you see an inconsistency is that you see it as a right and can't imagine how others could.

There is nothing internally inconsistent in his position. It's just not consistent with YOUR opinion.

[Moloch]

30. Kerry

I'm gay too and I don't think Kerry's opposition to gay marriage represents a lack of support for gay rights. His record is clearly one of supporting gay rights and it takes real guts to defend gay rights in a church in Mississippi (a Pentecostal one at that). He is for civil unions.

Many people believe that gay marriages would violate the separation of church and state, forcing churches to wed gay couples. If a church chooses to do so, then that's great but government should not tell religious institutions what to do any more than religious institutions should be able to tell government what to do.

[Zhade]

40. I do agree that defending gays in a church takes guts.

Kerry did well in this instance, and I respect that.

There's a small problem with the "separation of church and state" argument, though: not all marriages are officiated in a church. Mine wasn't - I married my now ex-wife at City Hall, yet our marriage was just as much a marriage as one that takes place in a church.

I think this is an unintentional red herring. Marriages do not have to be performed in a church to be considered as such. I mean, maybe the various religions feel they do, but as I'm not religious anyway, I could care less what they think.

[Virginian]

41. I am confused on a point.

It's only a word, let the fundies have it.
If the fundies view marriage as a religious rite, then if a Justice of the Peace or other state or federal employee performs marriages, isn't that a violation of the separation of Church and State?

So, why not call the legal aspect of marriage "Personal Union" and the keep the word "Marriage" to mean a religious union ceremony performed in a Church, Mosque, Temple... etc.

What we now call a marriage license would become a Contract for Personal Union regardless of the applicants. All marriages or civil unions would be referred to legally as Personal Unions.

That way, the legal rights are covered for a union of two people regardless whether the ceremony took place in a church or in a court room and regardless whether the couple was gay or straight.

There are some churches where a gay marriage have taken place; there have been commitment ceremonies for a long time now, they just weren't legally binding. With a license for a personal union, the commitment ceremonies could be called marriages and would be both legally and spiritually binding.

I don't think the fundies are really hung up on what it is called, I think they just want to impose their religious beliefs on the rest of us. If we changed the words as I suggested above, they would only find some other method to object to it. They would probably call it government sanctioned sin.

[Moloch]

44. Separation of Church & State

You are right about that, but most Americans think of it as government telling churches what to do. That's why I think it would be better to push for civil unions with the same inherent rights as marriages.

[Vladimir]

32. Why not try and give Kerry the benefit of the doubt here

Here is a possible explanation: Maybe he is just playing politics. 'I believe marriage is between a man and a woman' is a soundbyte. The substance of the speech leaves him perfectly free to flip-flop on the issue once in office and actually support marriage. You play for keeps, not sainthood.

I don't know if that's true, but its not impossible. I support gay marriage completely, in fact I disagree with delegating it to the states, I think it should be a right protected at federal level. But if I was running for office, the hell would I say that. I agree with you, Kerry does sound vague on a lot of things. Everyone here knows how I feel about him being the nominee. But tactically, whatever he believes, the line he took is probably the right line to take.

V

[kiahzero]

37. Thank you!!!

Here is a possible explanation: Maybe he is just playing politics. 'I believe marriage is between a man and a woman' is a soundbyte. The substance of the speech leaves him perfectly free to flip-flop on the issue once in office and actually support marriage. You play for keeps, not sainthood.

Realpolitik sucks, but its necessary.

[Bread and Circus]

22. Go Kerry!

[dsc]

23. I have complained about his not doing this

so it is only fitting that I praise him for actually speaking about gay rights to a non gay audience. This is one of the things that really bothered me about Kerry. Good for him.

[sangh0]

29. It's not the 1st time

and Kerry has a long record of standing up for GLBT rights. He was only one of 14 Senators who voted against DOMA, and he was the only one to do so while facing an upcoming election

[dsc]

33. against an equally pro gay candidate

His voting record is easy to aquire in a state like Massachusetts. I had never heard him extoll this in a stump speech. I am glad he is.

[sangh0]

34. That's not true

Gay marriage is NOT popular in MA. Why do you think they were debating a marriage amendment to the state Constitution?

Also, I believe that Kerry did not yet know who he would be running against when he voted for DOMA.

And while you may never have heard one, Kerry has spoken out dozens of times throughout his career. I don't understnad why you are limiting your search for pro-gay Kerry statements to his current stump speeches.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

36. MIght I suggest

that dsc has given Kerry more credit than usual, perhaps we could allow this tiny bit of coming together to stand by itself, and not try to force any more out of it?

[sangh0]

39. I refer you to my post #29

which is completely gracious and unobjectionable.

[dsc]

43. He had to have known

The race was in 1996 and DOMA passed in July. It is nothing short of absurd that Weld wasn't his named opponent in July of 1996. I think, that Weld announced his run in something like 1995, but I know full well he did before July of 1996. I never said gay marriage was popular in Massachusetts, though every poll I have seen on it shows it to be above 50% there, but it is ludricrious to say Weld wasn't a very pro gay opponent. He had signed a gay civil rights bill, a bill requiring schools to address bullying against gay students, and opposed DOMA. In short, please a) read the post you respond to and b) get your facts straight before you c) take me to task again.

[DrFunkenstein]

35. Race Is An Idea

Racial characteristics exist more on a spectrum or continuum than as distinct categories. The only reason race seems to make so much sense in the US is because of the strict anti-miscegination(?) laws enforced from the Reconstruction on.

In a separate petri(?) dish over in Brasil, they didn't have such laws after the end of slavery, and while there is a preference for lighter skin, they generally don't recognize distinct racial categories.

[Virginian]

42. That is a true melting pot.

We call ourselves the Melting Pot, but we don't have anything on Brazil.