Hillary and Obama need to get together with Howard Dean and work something out.

[jlake]

This election is ours. We will only lose it from infighting.
It is clear from the primaries that BOTH are well liked and people are EVENLY divided in their support.
Neither Obama nor Hillary is winning by a "landslide" blah blah blah like all of the spin from *both sides*.

Hillary does have more experience, and is older. She should lead the ticket because after 8 years, she will likely be too old to run for President. Obama on the other hand, will be younger at that point than Hillary is now - and will have the much needed experience.

They could unite now and heal the party.
This election is more important than the egos of our candidates.

Obama and Hillary are VERY similar on the issues - each has their stronger points - and hopefully the betters parts of each will prevail, but they are NOT as different as night and day as some would like to believe.

The ticket can run on "Hope change and experience" And what better change than a ticket with a woman and black man?
- and if we can turn all of the current internal animosity toward the Republicans, and use the big guns that are currently being used against each other we can win 45 states in November.

[AX10]

1. K & R!

45 states will not happen, but 350 EV's is very real!

[jlake]

54. I think it just might if we pulled out all the stops and combined

the fundraising and GOTV powerhouses of both candidates.... but even if not, a win is guaranteed.

[apnu]

2. They do need to work something out, but

2004 was ours too and the party leaders managed to screw that pooch. I fear more of the same from Peosi, Reid, Rahm (my rep no less) and the DLC, DCCC and DNC.

Don't get me wrong, I still got Howard Dean's back, but the ineptness of the party leadership scares me more than anything else right now.

[thereismore]

3. I could live with that. I do hope they work something out. They are obviously

both popular with democrats - what else is a logical conclusion other than a joint ticket?

[no name no slogan]

4. We need to let the rest of the states vote first

Even after Super Tuesday, there's still ±20 states that have not even had their chance to choose a candidate.

[blm]

5. There's a HUGE difference. Obama is for Open Government and Clinton for Closed Government

Why should Democrats ACCEPT 8 more years of Closed Government just so YOU and Hillary get what YOU want?

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

Just because YOU prefer closed government doesn't mean the rest of us haven't learned the lessons of secrecy and privilege.

[jlake]

7. Let's work that issue out. The worse option is to not capture the presidency.

[blm]

16. Clinton IS the worst option and most LIKELY to lose the GE and downticket races

for Dems.

So why risk it for the opportunity to enjoy 8 more years of closed government?

[jlake]

21. I am sorry that you feel Clinton is worse than Republicans.

You seem too militant to discuss the issue with.

[blm]

35. Typical dodge. Hillary hurts the ticket AND she's FOR closed government so how does

that translate into worse than Republican?

She's one step ABOVE a Republican in my book - but you have no loyalty to accuracy when you attempt to take on someone who knows what has gone on for decades in this country and the roles the Clintons have played to protect the Bushes....do you?

[quinnox]

6. Agree, a deal with Obama as the future

Hillary is the present and has way more seniority. Seniority is an important part of politics (and many real world jobs too) and Obama is straight out of high school.

He is young enough to wait until he has paid his dues like Hillary has in spades.

Hillary should be the nominee and perhaps she will help Obama in 8 years with her formidable political machine.

[hedgehog]

20. So you're saying Hillary should be the nominee because it's her turn?.......

[jlake]

33. I'm saying it's our turn to have 16 years in the White House.

[hedgehog]

8. Why? Let's let the voters have their say first. If nothing else, the

ongoing race in the Democratic Party is bound to get more free air time on news programs than the McCain coronation.

[jlake]

11. The problem is that the primaries go on through June.

The Republicans already have a nominee and can now focus all of their energy and resources against us, while we continue to tear ourselves apart.

[hedgehog]

24. We had an entire month after our convention before the Republicans

re-nominated Bush in 2004. How'd that work out for us?

[Hippo_Tron]

50. I think we can survive until June, late August would be a different story

[cali]

9. They don't really need to do this yet.

In fact, they don't need to do it until after March 4, but I actually don't disagree with you. I think if they do work something out, it's fine for Clinton to be on top of the ticket. She is older, and more experienced, though I don't agree with you that he doesn't have enough experience right now.

[jlake]

12. They need to start working on it now - continue the primaries - but we

really can't let this go to the convention - or even past March 4th.
The Republicans already have their nominee and can now unite to attack us.
We will do ourselves a great disservice to continue a petty fight over egos.

[theboss]

13. Sure we can...This is fun

A tough primary is good for a party, as long as neither candidate is a complete idiot.

[jlake]

18. A tough primary is good - but this may just devolve into mutual destruction.

[theboss]

62. Nah...As long as Hillary keeps Bill on a leash we are fine

DU is its own little world. Nobody here reflects anyone I've ever met in real life.

Every exit poll indicates that Dems are pleased with both candidates. It's not like Hillary backers will stay home if Obama gets the nod. And vice versa.

Rule #1 about DU:

1. DU is representative of nothing.

[jlake]

64. I'm thinking about the MEDIA coverage and spin.

and the GOP machine..... not DU.
We will be at a great disatvantage.

[theboss]

67. GOP machine is in tatters....the media is fine so far

I've yet to see what the actual danger is of a long primary. Primaries used to last into summer. This will most likely be resolved by April.

Bill Clinton made his national breakthrough in June of 1992 when he appeared on Arsenio Hall. Until that point, he was polling behind Bush AND Perot.

Freaking relax and enjoy the best primary season since 1960.

[cali]

19. I don't think it's fair to work something out

now. I'm a voter in a March 4 state, and I would NOT take kindly to the usurpation of my vote. I imagine others feel the same way. Of course we can wait until after March 4. In fact, we can wait until after PA in April. I agree that it can't go until the convention, but that's not until the end of August. You're jumping the gun.

[jlake]

37. I don't vote 'til April 22nd. I agree that we should all get to vote -

But they need to make a real pledge to stay positive, and perhaps agree that they will be the ticket - and just battle for top spot.

[Hippo_Tron]

52. I think a pledge to stay positive is a good idea

[TwilightGardener]

26. I disgree--this is what the Clintonites are trying to do to marginalize Obama--

he will have to resist the pressure to give in "for the good of the party" and accpet VP and let her win--but if he's leading in delegates, and does better in head-to-head matchups, why on EARTH should HE make a deal to give up? How does it help the party that the STRONGER candidate gives up? Stupid. Let them go awhile, and we'll see what happens, but this sort of "dream ticket" and "we're ripping apart the party" talk is meant to only damage one candidate--Obama. See it for what it is.

[jlake]

32. He doesn't need to make a deal now. I think that they should start hammering

out a plan now -- it is clear that we need both on the ticket - and there are pragmatic reasons why Hillary should be at the top.

[TwilightGardener]

36. Nope, and no. There is no reason to assume anything, and no reason why she should

be the Democratic nominee, until people vote for her as such. This is a very transparent ploy to get people to see her as the eventual President, and him as the VP--it's psychology, and I reject that thinking.

[jlake]

39. Okay. You are seeing things that aren't there.

[TwilightGardener]

41. I saw the Dream Ticket BS for what it is. I know what the Hillary camp is up to.

[jlake]

45. You know what. I think she is going to win the nomination.

I think that we need a dream ticket - and if the bad blood continues - Hillary will NOT pick Obama - and that will NOT be good.

[TwilightGardener]

46. I agree with you, she is most likely to win--and I don't want him on the ticket.

[jlake]

48. Why not? He may never have another chance to run if Michelle was speaking the truth.

Your hate for Hillary cannot be so strong.

[TwilightGardener]

49. I don't hate her. I'm thinking about Obama's future.

[jlake]

51. Michelle said they wouldn't do it again.

And I don't know why you think Hillary will fail.
They would win the GE & re-election handily - setting the stage for 8 years of Obama as President.

[TwilightGardener]

58. I don't think Obama wants to spend his prime years with his light under a bushel basket.

We'll see if he takes the slot, IF that day comes.

[theboss]

10. Dean has completely overstepped his bounds here

It's not up to him to work out a deal...and it's certainly not up to him to work out a deal in February.

This will work itself out in due time.

[madfloridian]

14. He said they would discuss it in June....not February.

And he sees disaster on this path.

Remember....there is a former president calling the shots and vying for party control.

[madfloridian]

15. Dupe delete

[Hippo_Tron]

55. I don't agree, Dean's job is to make sure that we beat John McCain in November

And to a certain extent that involves keeping Clinton and Obama from ripping each other to shreds before this is all over.

Dean said they would work out a deal if there is no clear nominee by June and I agree. I think we can survive with no nominee until June. But if there is no nominee by June, two months of party infighting until August would destroy us.

[theboss]

65. They aren't ripping each other to shreds

Democrats still hold both in high esteem and will as long as Bill behaves himself.

The only person who has behaved badly in any of this is Bill Clinton. And I think he was successfully rebuked.

[TwilightGardener]

17. LOL! They need to work something out--as long as Hillary wins! Bwah!!

[Submariner]

22. With Obama heading the ticket then Hillary can become the

Cheney of the administration because she certainly knows the beltway. That way Obama can concentrate on the BIG PICTURE and let Hillary push tasks through the system she knows so well.

She will only be in her late '60s when she runs in 2016.

[Longhorn]

23. Were you listening in on my husband and me last night?!!

I like both of them and will be proud to support them, individually or together. What I don't want is a big fight that leaves us vulnerable to McCain. :hi:

[Barack_America]

25. Would Hillary accept a VP spot?

Would Hillary on Obama's ticket help or hurt him in the general election?

I personally don't think this "deal" is going to happen.

[predfan]

27. Two words.............Supreme Court

Next president will appoint at least two.............

[emilyg]

34. Keep repeating. Very important.

[madfloridian]

28. Having a former president taking sides put an onus on the chairman.

Especially when that former president has used some tactics that are beneath a former president and the chairman knows it. It is all a big power play.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

29. How about this as a solution?

The states vote, and the person with the most delegates wins. Open to debate on whether or not that should include superdelegates, but I don't really care either way.

[MadBadger]

30. You say the election is ours, but yet you want Howard Dean to annoint her the nominee.

[blm]

38. Total asshat proposal, "Let me win and you shut up while you watch us lose it all."

That's the way it sounds to me. ;)

[jlake]

40. You are not helping the party. Not sure what your purpose is.

[blm]

44. Closed government HASN'T helped our party, EVER, has it?

Read this and try to make the case that closed government has BENEFITTED the Democratic party and this nation.

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[hedgehog]

31. Let me be contrarian here and suggest that a visible fight for votes

right down to the finish is the best thing that could happen. I'd say about half the American electorate doesn't bother voting these days out of the conviction that "they" select the President and that the fix is in. How many Republicans and independents are shaking their heads today because they are convinced that "they" decided on John McCain?

[John Q. Citizen]

42. Naw the elected Dems in the party aren't going to sit around and let Hill run the party into the

ground like happened in 1994. This is why you have seen such a large number of elected officials endorsing Obama.

You do realise that the Repo turn out in 1994 was indentical to the Repo turn out in 1990, right?

The so called Republican Revolution was the result of Clinton selling out the Unions and the grassroots on healthcare, selling out the unions and working people on NAFTA, and selling out gays on don't ask don't tell. It was Democratic turnout in 1994 that dropped significantly, and why wouldn't it? Who feels motivated to go vote when they feel they've been sold out?

You talk as if Hill has some kind of right to be president. Because she reached a certain age or something. That's silly.

Obama has a lot more experience than Hill does at energising new voters, at turning out record breaking crowds when he shows up to talk, and of raising money.

I can't see the Dems are eager to return to the days of Republican congressional majorities, of a divisive and polarizing figure at the top of the ticket.

At least Bill had some charisma, something Hill doesn't.

Good luck with your fantasy scenario, but I would be very surprised to see it happen.

[samrock]

43. Not yet..

Nothing should be done until all the states have had there primary/caucus.. THEN if no one has the numbers they should sit down and try to resolve this..

[jlake]

47. That will be too late. This needs to be resolved by March.

I don't vote until April 22nd, and I am willing to give up my vote to win this election with a dream ticket.

[samrock]

56. sorry

You do not get to speak for all in your state or the others.. ALL states should get there say and THEN all sides need to get together ASAP and fix this.. IF we end up with John McCain as President I hope Howard Dean and the other DNC big wigs get tared and feathered and run out of town on a rail!! .. This is all becoming soo sad!!! I will vote for either Obama or Clinton.. It just hope WHO ever wins the nomination does not find they had a Pyrrhic victory.. :(

[theboss]

66. Oh please....

Nothing matters until June or July.

The longer Dems debate, the more McCain is forgotten about.

[MadHound]

53. A ticket with Hillary at the top will go down to defeat in the fall

And just because she is older doesn't necessarily mean that she deserves a shot. If that were the case then Kucinich should be getting the nod over Hillary:shrug:

But with Hillary at the top of any ticket, she is going to have a massive turnout against her, the anti-war left will abandon her, and conservative Dems and independents will swarm to McCain.

Giving somebody the nomination based on age is utterly wrong, anybody who gets the nomination should have to earn it.

[jlake]

57. I'm sorry you feel that way. Hillary will win in Nov with or without Obama on the

ticket. It is not about her age, but the logistics of both Obama and Hillary having 8 years in the White House.

[MadHound]

61. I really should start taking bets on this one, I could retire a rich man

I've been in this political business a long time, and have very, very good at seeing how voters are going to break.

Do you deny that the right would turn out in droves to vote for anybody facing Hillary?

Do you deny that the anti-war left will either go Green or go home if Hillary is the nominee?

Do you deny that many conservative Democrats, and most of the independents would break for McCain?

If you deny any or all of these, well hey, perhaps we could work out something later in the fall:evilgrin:

[jlake]

63. Yes, I deny all 3.

#1 is likely to happen against any Democrat once the RW noise machine fires up.
#2 maybe a few, but for the most part they will vote for the Democrat
3. I don't think this will be the case AT ALL

[MadHound]

68. Well then you know what they say,

Put up or shut up, easy money.

RWers are already threatening to stay home due to McCain. Nothing, absolutely nothing would pull them out of their houses quicker than a Hillary candidacy. If Obama gets the nod, they'll stay home and sulk.

Much, much more than a few will either go Green, go Nader, or go home, they are that pissed at Hillary. If you don't believe me, poke around here in the archives and you'll get a sense of what I'm talking about.

And if you don't get McCain's appeal to moderates, independents and even conservative Dems, well you haven't been around politics long enough, or at least haven't gotten into it in depth. Why do you think that the RW dislikes him? Oh, yeah, because he goes out of his way to appeal to moderates, d'uh.

Like I said, PM me this fall and we can work something out.

[scheming daemons]

59. I'd rather have the sure thing of 8 Obama years than the very real possibility of 4 McCain years...

...sorry, not buying jlake.

Clinton is a seriously flawed candidate. She would be the most likely to lose in November to McCain.


There are no "turns" in politics. She is not "entitled" to the nomination this time. That's how we ended up with Kerry last time. It's how the Repukes ended up with Dole in '96.


Pick the best candidate for NOW... 8 years from now is too far off to project anything. You don't know where the country will be then.

Obama's appeal is in his vibrancy...his connection with the youth (and young at heart) in this country.

8 years growing stale in a Clinton White House would destroy everything that makes him appealing now.



This is the meme of the Clinton supporters right now... "Let us have our turn, and you can have yours in 8 years."

Fuck that. That's the argument the LBJ supporters (and Harry Truman) were making to JFK in 1960. They were wrong then, as you are wrong now.

It's time to end the Clinton Political machine (and the Bush political machine) forever. America needs something new NOW - not 8 years from now.

[jlake]

60. I don't agree with your points, and I think Hillary will be the nominee.