Did I read speculation about Kerry/Kerrey sometime back

[salin]

Biggest challenge, is the former Senator and Governor of Nebraska's admissions around previously denied atrocities in Vietnam.

If one goes beyond that (if possible - which may or may not - however I think it is an important discussion .... what really happens in war, the after math, in terms of these are discussions that should happen before we send folks to a war - and let the public weigh if the cause de jour is so serious that it warrants sending our military into such circumstances) - what are the up and downsides of Bob Kerrey as number two on the ticket.

For those pushing Bayh - I have always been more familiar with Kerrey - and I grew up in Indiana! Could be the popular press he received around dating Debra Winger back in the eighties.

[ButterflyBlood]

1. fuck no

we don't need a war criminal on the ticket. especially one who'd make all bumper stickers look like a typo.

and there would be no advantages. Kerry wouldn't win Nebraska if Jesus Christ was his running mate.

[King of New Orleans]

2. Allright, tell us what you really think

eom

[Mattforclark]

3. Yes, it's true that Clark was indicted

as a war criminal by a Serbian court, along with Bill Clinton, Jacques Chirac, Tony Blair, and Gerhard Schroeder.

That doesn't mean he is a war criminal.

We need someone who has been indicted by a Milosevician court for war crimes.

[salin]

4. I would assume that Nebraska - is like Indiana

may sometimes elect a statewide dem... but the top of the ticket is going to remain bright red.

Was really coming from the perspective that state administrative experience would be an asset to balance Kerry. Almost all of the suggestions folks are making focus on the Senate. There needs to be more balance of experience at the top. Personally I like Sen. Graham who has been elected five times in Florida to the statewide offices of Governor (2 times) and Senator (3 times). I think that Gen. Clark is a different variation (not a governor) but brings an interesting balance of experience. Trying to think of others with some national recognition who fit the bill.

I seem to recall a mention of Kerrey at some point - but don't recall any of the points of discussion.

[mobuto]

7. He's not a war criminal

His unit commited what are technically war crimes - they fired into a village filled with VC and unintentionally killed civilians. But that was hardly out of the ordinary in the war, and Kerrey has admitted his guilt and has never listed the Bronze Star he received for his actions that night on his resume. I think it is inappropriate for us to judge mistakes, no matter how unpleasant, in a mad war where friend and foe were often indistuingishable. Kerrey's men were under tremendous amounts of stress - that's not their fault, that's the fault of the policy makers who created the environment into which they were forced.

Bob Kerrey is brave, honest, principled and extremely intelligent. I think you do him a gross injustice.

[ChiefJoseph]

11. I don't buy Kerrey's version of events.

I just don't believe that they fired randomly into the village and killed people unintentionally. If that was the case, why were there no wounded? If I'm not mistaken, there were no survivors. Also, I believe all the victims were found together in a group, not scattered. I don't think I ever heard a satisfactory response from Kerrey about these allegations.

That having been said, I think Kerrey is a great American. He made a mistake as a young man and has clearly been haunted by it. He has paid for his mistake. But as good a man as he is, because of his involvement in this incident, he can never serve in a national office again.

[thebigidea]

15. so when WOULD you consider it appropriate to judge mistakes in war?

[Rainbowreflect]

9. Wrong, Kerrey would win Nebraska with or without Tom.

If you don't get that you are not from Nebraska.

[Mattforclark]

5. People wouldn't be sure which Kerr(e)y

they were voting for for President and which for vice president. Some people would think that Kerry made himself his vice president. Some people would think that Kerry cloned himself. There would be massive confusion and the world would end in a great ball of fire.

[JI7]

6. Kerrey is pretty liberal on social issues , but he moves around

he also voted against the defense of marriage act. for a guy from nebraska that was pretty impressive. he is supports abortion rights and voted against any limits on it.

on other issues though he tends to move around. he supported the iraq war, talks about social security privitization and other things. but then also went after clinton for not doing enough liberal things and ended up supporting bradley over gore in 2000. he is probably better than bayh though, but i can't say for sure.

[mobuto]

8. One thing Bob Kerrey is

He was the most substantive, most intellectual, and perhaps smartest member of Congress. He is a bit conservative for my tastes, but he commands the issues like no politician alive today, with the possible exceptions of Bill Clinton and Gary Hart. I don't think Kerry will pick him, but he's a great man.

[salin]

10. Give me an intellectual - who likes wrestling with policy

even if they are a little more conservative than me... over one who is more centrist - but in a rather... superficial way (relies more upon advisors defining what the centrist or moderate position is... )

That is why I respected Gore, though he started out quite a bit to the right of me. Heard him speak numerous times in the late eighties, he would take complex issues around the environment - and around arms issues (e.g., the nuclear buildup under the reagan years) - and would boil down the essentials so that the audience would understand... but do so without losing the complexities.

Am not as familiar with Kerrey, but think that both Hart and Clinton come from that same space (intellectual wrestling with policies, understanding implications, etc.)

Wonder if it bears noting, however, that I think that you are probably a tad to the right of me, mobotu, and if you find Kerrey to the right of you... perhaps I would be less likely to think about this as an option? Then again, I return to my early impressions of Gore (definitely to my right when I heard him speak in the eighties), and I was very supportive of his run (and win) for president.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. Kerrey was on the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq

A PNAC front org. This was posted in Editorials in November of 02 and is also in Stephanie's PNAC links.

That in and of itself would cancel him out for me.

[buddhamama]

14. i had forgotten that very important fact

about Kerrey.

thanks for the reminder, Teena.

[AntiCoup2K4]

17. So is the guy who writes Kerry's foreign policy (Will Marshall)

PPI is PNAC.

So why do you support a candidate who backs PNAC, but not a running mate who supports PNAC?

[mobuto]

18. ???

PPI is just the DLC's thinktank. It has nothing to do with Bill Kristol.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. Got any proof that Marshall wrote Kerry's foreign policy?

[salin]

20. That, indeed, sends up

big warning flags. Thanks.

[buddhamama]

13. my leftist self is saying

AARRGGHHHH!!!

Wes Clark, Edwards and maybe maybe Glenn (of the potential VPs that have been mentioned) are the only three i'd be somewhat comfortable with.

I'm no Hoosier but Bayh,
and Kerrey well he's alright but,
the Viet Nam thing is hard to get over.

*slurp* that's optimism being sucked out of me.

[RobinA]

16. Maybe

but I'd say it is a nonstarter. Too much Vietnam, too much kerr y.