The easy retort for the 'flip flop' charge

[jpgray]

[phillybri]

1. Beautiful....

:kick:

[MercutioATC]

2. That's a comment om the Bush flip-flops, not an answer to charges against

Kerry. We're going to have to do better than point and say "Yeah? Well you did it, too.".

[JoePizz]

3. Why not try this-

Try an argument along these lines:

q: Kerry flip floped on some issues!

a: Are you telling me it would be better for him to have continued to stick with a decision that he later found out to have been bad? Anyone can be decisive- only a wise man can admit he made a mistake when it becomes apparent he did so and move to correct it.

Just look at Bush over the Iraq invasion- Rather than admit the whole thing was a bad idea before it happened, he simply "flip flopped" several times on the reasons why we should invade. In other words, he would never admit he was wrong and instead was willing to have over 500 American soldiers die over his stuborness and inability to re-asses his decisions when new and often times more pertinent information becomes available. Same thing with the tax cuts- to this day Bush claims they are the best thing for the country, despite that pesky reality. "We need tax cuts because we have a surplus of YOUR money" turned into "We need tax cuts beceause it we are in a recesion"

Just a thought.

Personally, I seriously doubt ANY rational argument would work with a Neocon/Bush supportr. Rational arguments only work with rational people. Irrational people rely on irrational arguments.

[sangh0]

9. We're going to have to do better? Says who?

In 2000, did Bush* ever respond with an answer to questions about his cocaine use? His going AWOL? His arrests?

No, he didn't have to. He reacted by attacking Gore. There is no rule that says a question must be answered to MercutioATC's (or anyone's) satisfaction.

[LSparkle]

4. "Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds"

I'm embarassed that I can't remember the source of that quote ... Emerson maybe?

[Rowdyboy]

5. "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds"

You're quite right, it was Emerson.

[LSparkle]

6. Many thanks for the correction!

And I'm glad to know at least I got the source right.

[radfringe]

7. encounter with someone who still supports bush*

gist of the conversation went something like this...

him: Bush is a leader

me: what if he is leading us in the wrong direction, like over a cliff - would you still follow?

him: bush is decisive

me: being decisive is not automatically a condition of being right, what if his decisions are wrong?

him: bush is engaged with the issues facing our country

me: ummmm, when bush was asked about the meetings he had with O'Neill regarding the economy, bush said he was bored as hell. does that count as being engaged?

him: well, Clinton wasn't so great either

me: Clinton wasn't so great either? so are you now saying that bush isn't that great also? besides, Clinton is gone, bush is supposedly in charge, so what does Clinton have to do with what's going on today on bush's watch -- unless you think Clinton is still running things?

him: we're in a recession because of Clinton

me: correction - according to bush the recession ended a couple of years ago, we are now in a job-loss recovery and according to bush we are doing just fine. but it's funny that you blame Clinton, because bush does the same thing everytime there's a problem - is that what republican mean about taking responsibility?

him: Clinton did nothing about terrorism.

me: when Clinton left office, intelligence reports and a terrorism plan was given to bush. he did not read it, nor did Condi Rice. nor did they make any subsequent plans for preventing terrorism prior to September 11. and by the way -- are we're back to taking responsiblity by blaming Clinton?

him: I don't think you're very patriotic in not supporting the president

me: (sigh) so you're saying that in order to be patriotic that a person has to support the president?

him: yes

me: did you support Clinton when he was president?

him: no, but that's different

me: why is it different? you just said that in order to be patriotic that you have to support the president, and you just said that you didn't support Clinton so doesn't that make you unpatriotic too?

him: (sputter sputter sputter) Clinton ruined the country

me: funny way of ruining the country - surpluses, national debt was being paid down, balanced the budget, record job creation. Meanwhile, bush 'fixed' the country by blowing the surplus, increasing the national debt to record proportions, budget deficits for as far as the eyes can see, and for the first time in 70 years a sitting president loses jobs -- yes I can see just how bad Clinton ruined the country

(he suddenly remembered something he had to do

[rock]

8. Very nicely put

[grannylib]

10. Hear hear....if only people would face facts instead of swallowing little

sound bites fed to them by the RNC and PNAC and all the other filth out there....