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I have reached the conclusion that Wes Clark will be the VP nominee....

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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:19 PM
Original message
I have reached the conclusion that Wes Clark will be the VP nominee....
I decided after seeing him with Wolf on CNN on Sunday. And then Kennedy. And it simply struck me in a flash....Also, because I am pretty sure the VP is already decided (don't ask me why, I won't tell)

Furthermore..I believe this was decided many months ago.

Too many odd occurrences and actions that lead me to this conclusion, and those don't even include the Clinton remark about how we'd lose if we didn't field candidates strong on national security.

Look at who ran. Who else is strong on national security. Bob Graham didn't even get out of the starting gate and he doesn't have the experience of Clark.

I think Clark's run was a way to get him out there, a little seasoned in politics. He was happy as a clam when he quit and he went right to Kerry. He also has campaigned representing Kerry...solo...in Georgia, where it was close, and then in Kansas.

Listen to Clark, Kerry, and Kennedy. (Kennedy, who usually sticks to domestic issues.) Clark put out the issues in a more concrete way than Dean, Kerry and Kennedy "stole" the Clark remarks. No, they didn't steal...I think it's part of a bigger plan.

Clark, Clinton, Kerry, Kennedy.

(I have a whole list of other "evidence" but this is the core of what I'm thinking....It's a gut feeling, but I feel it very strongly....
If I'm wrong I will eat the local Hatch chile and go up in smoke....)
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. I am pretty sure the VP is already decided too.
Because Kerry is smart as hell and knows just who is available and who will help his chances the best.

I also think it is Clark.
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MAlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. I think Kerry has decided as well
And now is taking the chance to review his choice, make sure his VP isn't a coke head, etc
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
50. Thank God...
...our nation can't afford another coke head!
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montanacowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Agreed!
Kerry would be nothing but smart to put Clark on the ticket - it would really be hard to beat - that would bring in a big part of the military vote and some southern states - besides I think Clark would be a very valuable asset(coming from someone who was neither a Clark nor Kerry supporter)
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree!
Clark is the only viable choice! He and JK are the "Heavy Medal" ticket! The military vote is much bigger than several states combined, and it alone could make the margin too big to cheat!

Plus... JK and WC have more medals between them than * and Dick have DUI convictions!
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. That's a good one!
LOL!

More medals than DUI convictions!
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. He just said he dopesn't want to be VP on CNN.
So much for your theory...
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montanacowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. IF he is asked, he will take it
I cannot imagine him turning it down - it's tailor made for him no matter what he says. I think its a done deal.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. We disagree.
I think it will be Edwards.
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. Not a chance. Edwards has ZIP ns/fp experience, and the Kerry
people have already said the VP will be a Southerner with major ns/fp credentials.

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HuskerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
52. Edwards would really suck as a VP choice. Kerry is much
smarter than that. Edwards is unseasoned, untested and would be painted as our Dan Quayle/Breck Girl candidate.
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atre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #52
58. Edwards is NOTHING like Quayle
Edited on Wed Mar-10-04 04:12 AM by atre
That comparison must be the most remarkably ignorant analogy ever drawn at DU. Quayle is most well known for being dim-witted and inarticulate. Edwards' campaigning skills show he is EXACTLY the opposite.

Judging by their public performances, if any one of our nominee candidates can be analogized to Quayle, it is Clark.

Clark is an empty suit. He's just a resume. I was drawn in by his four-star appeal for a while, but his campaign proved this much: he's not ready for the national stage. His speeches were very poor; he had to read his note cards. He projected no personality, and (like Kerry) he came away as wooden. I like the guy, but he needs to learn the ropes in politics by running as a Senator somewhere.

Here's another little dirty fact: Clark as VP would be the worst possible choice, if only because it will allow the media to resurrect the ghosts of Clinton.
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TinaTyson Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I think so too.
Not interested is the standard answer to that question.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. He said that he would do
whatever it takes to help Kerry get elected. That is the bottom line.
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Nimble_Idea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
36. let me educate you
He also said he would be president of the US

and many of kerry's opponents said they would "STAY TILL THE END"

right.......


Kerry/Clark 2004
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
40. No he didn't. he denied his motives were to porsue it as Woof Woof implied
WOODRUFF: One other thing. You sent out a solicitation letter today. I think we have a picture of it. Where you, among other things, show a letterhead. And there's a very nice photograph there of you alongside Senator Kerry.
Is this a possible ticket, General? Are you interested in running with him?
CLARK: No, I'm not interested in that, Judy. What I am interested in doing is helping John Kerry be elected president.
I went into this race to become president of the United States because I felt a certain way about the country, about where it needed to go. I have those very strong feelings. I think John Kerry's the man our party's picked.
I think he's a good man. I think he'll make a great president. And I'm fully supporting John Kerry and want him to be elected. I'm going to do whatever I can to help him.
WOODRUFF: That means you're out on the campaign trail between now and November.
CLARK: Well, I've been out a few times already, and I'm looking forward to doing it again.
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0403/09/ip.00.html
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GainesT1958 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. I suuure hope your effective analysis...
Proves you right! :D

B-)
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soleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. And Edwards as Attorney General? Works for me
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. I hope you're right, Gloria
My gut tells me Kerry/Clark is a winning ticket. I love this pic of them - they just 'look' so great together. And I believe they compliment each other on all the issues. Between the two of them there is a boat load of guts, heroism and knowledge.

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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. I would absolutely love Kerry/Clark
But not sure it's decided this early in the game. No matter what I'll vote for Kerry even if it's not Wes as the VP. Clark is going to bust his butt to get bush* out of the WH, whether he's on the ticket or not.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. then I get to leave my Clark stuff up?
:)
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Donating Member ( posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. How about this evidence?
Edited on Tue Mar-09-04 04:36 PM by 56kid
Seems like I've heard it said this was the plan all along.
Many many many months ago. In order to get Dean out of the race.
Clark runs, then settles for VP after being a good soldier.
Don't know if it was true then or is true now.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I think it was decided last summer....
Edited on Tue Mar-09-04 05:00 PM by Gloria
I was watching the CNN story on the Dean campaign. For all I know, Dean was part of a bigger plan as well!! (?) Who knows??

The Sleepless Summer tour looked like a rock tour. Clark was already poking around in June. Dean declared in June....By Sept. Clark was in the race. Dean brought up key issues. Clark then fleshed them out with his credentials. Dean loses big time in Iowa, Clark is no longer as important as a parallel run to Dean. Clark drops out when he no longer has to prove himself, before a race in Wisconsin in which he's doing very well in the polls...so why stay in and rough up Kerry? But all along, he's the potential VP....He doesn't have enough political experience to do the Presidency, but, wow, what a VP because he carries the weight we need on national security along with Kerry's military background. In the meantime, Clark proves to be an extremely fast learner and pulls in a lot of independent voters (like me and some of my friends). He's such a quick learner that he's out solo for Kerry within days of endorsing him. And, now, he sneaks back onto TV almost doing his "analyst" bit again (after his "goodbye" appearances and a short vacation).

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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. Clark is deflecting the VP talk, but he's not rejecting it out of hand....
Edited on Tue Mar-09-04 04:48 PM by Gloria
It's a big game going on.

Look at the 3 on Face the Nation...Graham, Richardson, Rendell. Richardson will not be VP (I'm in NM, believe that). Rendell demurred after the show talking about wanting someone from a state that should turn Dem. Graham...OK, FL, but what is his appeal nationwide??

Because I don't believe this is a question of "regional" candidates anymore, I believe we need another NATIONAL candidate on the ticket and that is CLARK.

Clark with his incredible learning curve was just hitting his stride when he pulled out. And did he pull out to prevent damage to Kerry? After all, there was the original talk of pulling out after OK, then he did a week later...just before Wisconsin, where he was doing extremely well in the polls...In other words, his job was done in terms of "training" and raising the key issues and it was time to stop spending money....

There are other reasons I have as well about his staff and campaign in general...notably, his message after he quit that his supporters would be "doing something" and that his E-block info would be retained and ready to use again. Note also: his website and blog is still intact.
Furthermore, his California and NY fundraisers who were ready to go while he was doing the Presidential thing will still be in place...

Furthermore...if Kerry's health becomes an issue, who is the candidate that could take over without missing a step on the critical issues????

Clark, already on Wolfie, addressed the issue of a Saddam trial as a political event. The man is fearless and is even now doing a lot of the heavy lifting...on CNN within two days?? If it's because they think he's not going to be the VP, they are being foolish.

It won't be Edwards or Bayh. It's going to be a matter of stature and guts...It's going to be Clark (I pray).
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mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. The funniest part of this is that when he appears on the usual
shows he is nothing like the guy these clowns pilloried for months.

I wonder if any viewers are asking themselves if this is some other General Clark? Or maybe that the pundits lied?

That would be an interesting epiphany, just like learning that the Dean "scream" was a technical screwup revolving around a specialised kind of microphone. Surely somebody else had to know that he was trying to be heard over a mob of cheering supporters? They sat on that little fact for over 600 showings before someone mentioned it as an aside. Yet, the very next day one of the commentators made that point, about the wild cheering drowning him out, and nothing more was said about it. The official line had been set and everyone was expected to adhere to it.

Gotta stop now. I can't afford to keep kicking the tv.
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King of New Orleans Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
15. I don't think the VP has been decided
but I tend to think Edwards and Mark Warner are the frontrunners. Just a personal opinion. Clark will almost certainly be involved with the campaign and administration, but I just don't think it'll be as VP.
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
46. I am certain it will not be Edwards or Warner and will be Clark...
...Clark is stumping for Kerry in Ohio next week. Why? Our primary was super tuesday.

The email sent to the Kerry campaign and the Clark campaign was very, very telling.

No one 'admits' they are campaigning to be VP...no one.

It will not be Edwards as he has no FP experience, and the Kerry camp said this would be a VP requirement.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kerry/Clark is absolutely the strongest ticket we could field . . .
totally neutralizes Bush's perceived advantage on issues of national security and defense . . . which means we can shift the debate to domestic issues, where Bush is weakest and the Democrats strongest . . . a wise move on Kerry's part if true . . .
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. Gloria, You're One Of The Sharpest Posters Here
but I don't know what to think.

Feels like wishful thinking ON MY PART to entertain the notion.

But I've had similiar thoughts.

Only time will tell.

Sure is funny how the media seems to be pushing Edwards though....

he'd be great to attack from the GOP standpoint.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I don't think Edwards will be VP....
Edited on Tue Mar-09-04 05:03 PM by Gloria
he is a relatvie lightweight...one termer, no foreign experience at all. Recall how Al Gore also had a great deal of foreign experience....Clark could take a foreign policy portfolio as VP and work with any Sec. of State easily. He has had high praise from Madeline Albright, who demurred from endorsing him during an interview I saw, but said she would vote for him.

Furthermore, Kerry is making a big issue of restoring our allies. Half of Europe and SA knows Clark...the Europeans love Clark....

I am hearing that Edwards made a few enemies along the way as well....

And, I am convinced that the VP issue is decided. The game is going on for the press. Meanwhile, let's see where Clark turns up in terms of TV and speeches around the country. I can bet he won't be on one of those
"lineups" with "prospective" VPs....like we saw on Face the Nation on Sunday. Let's see if he's doing policy stuff....Let's see where Edwards or Bayh or Warner show up, if they show up. Gep may show up with Kerry but will he be doing solo turns on policy????

Clark has some degree of national presence and is already out there running for Kerry! While the media is fussing, Clark is out there running on some of the key issues!
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. An interesting tidbit on Madeline Albright.
At one of the house parties I went to, they auctioned off a copy of her book which she had signed. She signed the inner cover with the words "Go Wes!". That kind of seemed like an endorsement to me.:)
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. I think you're correct
Clark will be veep candidate.
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SangamonTaylor Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
22. Clark attacked Kerry too much to be VP
and the problem with his attacks is that they are the same attacks that Bush is using.

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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I don't think Kerry agrees....since Clark is already out as a surrogate
for Kerry in places like Georgia and Kansas....
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. No one is home free on that, who either ran for President or
Anyone who served in Congress with Kerry. Edwards undercut Kerry's position on protecting American jobs, with his attempt to play up their trade differences. During the 5 years Kerry and Edwards served in the Senate together, Edwards voted with Bush a significantly higher percentage of the time than did Kerry. The Republicans would mine those votes to use Edwards stances against Kerry.

Perhaps a Governor would escape those potential problems, but they almost by definition lack experience with World Affairs (Richardson is an exception). There will be trade offs made in picking the VP.
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SangamonTaylor Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Attacks on civil rights, the tax cuts, the Patriot Act, the war,
I'll be the first to admit that Edwards did not agree with Kerry on everything, and he pushed to distinguish himself.

However, I'd say that Clark's attacks on Kerry (and Edwards) before the Tennessee and Virginia primaries were ruthless. It just seems to me that Clark was saying exactly what Bush is saying now....That Kerry went along with Bush on everything in the Senate and for some reason he is now against those things (tax cuts, Patriot, Iraq etc.)

Plus, Clark bringing up a twelve year old statement that Kerry made about affirmative action really tarnished Clark in my opinion.

I'm glad that Wes is back on the stump, I just think it's too much of a liability as the VP slot.
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
51. A genuine concern
Edited on Tue Mar-09-04 11:48 PM by Scoopie
This is not meant as a flame. It is a geniune concern of mine about Edwards on the ticket.
From exit polling, we know that voters who ARE enthusiastic or very supportive of the Bush Administration were voting for Edwards in South Carolina, Georgia and Tennessee. A couple of stories regarding Louisiana's voting patterns allude to that, too (sorry - I'm on dial up and can't go looking for the link - but just do a Google search tonight and you'll find it).
Then, there's this whole issue of Edwards taking counsel from Gen. Hugh Shelton - a staunch Republican.
As an independent, believe me, I have no problem with Democrats and Republicans working together, but Shelton isn't a moderate Republican - he's a friggin' neo-con.
It bothers me that there are so many staunch Republicans supporting Edwards, either through sneaky voting or, in Shelton's case, by giving Edwards advice.
I hope Kerry takes that into consideration when he's making his decision. I'd hate to see a melt-down of the ticket prior to November.

Edited for grammar
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West Coast Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
29. Clark is doing a lot of campaigning for Kerry......
and I did just receive "A Message from Wes Clark" email from the Kerry Campaign today.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
30. I certainly hope you're right!
I have been posting for several weeks now, that Kerry is ahead on all domestic issues, but still trails Bush badly on terrorism, Iraq, & Foreign Policy. And yesterday the CNN/USA/GALLUP poll proved me correct.

Clark is the only one out there who can completely neutralize Bush on these issues. A debate between Cheney & Clark would be a sight to behold. Chickenhawk, 3 deferments, "I had other priorities" vs, 4 Star General.

Clark is also a very effective attack dog: devasting, but not mean.
And this is a prime roll for Veep candidate.

And finally, Clark is the only candidate who has gone into the South & talked about religion, patriotism, & family values. A perfect complement to a "New England Liberal."

Gloria, here's hoping you're right, because we need him as Veep, & we need to win this election.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. Leilani....Clark & the South...he was the only candidate who went
Edited on Tue Mar-09-04 06:58 PM by Gloria
to Louisiana during his Prez bid, remember?? It was around MLK day, if I'm correctly remembering. He met with black leaders.
I've heard talk about Clark being able to tip Louisiana our way....(and Arkansas)....
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
31. I agree it's a done deal and has been for some time,
and if we're both wrong I'll join my fellow New Mexican in suicide by green chile (except I like it really hot anyway, so it probably wouldn't prove fatal in my case). :D


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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
32. Wow, Gloria, someone gave me the same perspective as you have...
way back when Clark first got into the race and she was Canadian! I agree with you, I think there is a bigger plan here, it would be naive to think otherwise. My fingers and toes are crossed just to make sure tho!
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elsiesummers Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
33. Maybe you are right, or maybe not - no proof yet, alternate theories.
Edited on Tue Mar-09-04 05:49 PM by elsiesummers
On your side - yes Clark is out there campaigning as a surrogate. Perhaps he is being prepped for Secretary of State, though.

Alternative theory: perhaps Edwards for veep was the set up, all along. Edwards was in the race long enough to gain more national recognition than Clark. Edwards is apparently doing a big fund raiser/meet and greet for Kerry on Thursday. Also - there was really no blood drawn between these two, and most surprising was in the final debate when Edwards said the problems abroad are a question of leadership and Kerry nodded his head in agreement - thus raising Edwards' international credentials. Additionally, both Kerry and Edwards rushed to squash the notion printed in the press that there is less than warm relations between these two. Carville consistently pushes Edwards as best Veep choice.

Graham was also out there on TV campaigning for Kerry recently. Additionally, Graham was suggested by Kerry as a special envoy to Haiti.

Not saying you are incorrect - and would certainly think Clark's in the top five possible choices - but if you are looking for evidence there is all kinds of evidence out there to make different cases for various candidates.

Edited for grammar
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
35. I've also had this feeling for a long time. Matter of fact,
even before the Iraq war, when Clark was just fairly unenthusiastically mumbling about running for pres, the notion of a Kerry/Clark ticket entered my mind, and seemed an unbeatable combo. And, like you, I noted Clark's almost seamless transformation from candidate to Kerry standard bearer. It all seemed very orchestrated. And, the way they interacted on stage when Clark endorsed Kerry revealed what a powerful connection these two have. Together they make a magnetic and very charismatic pair: two decorated war heroes (one who fought in, then protested, the Vietnam war; another who also fought there but remained a loyal soldier) now united in a passionate mission to save our country from fascism. IT SELLS, BIG TIME.

:kick:
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TomSeaver Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. After seeing an Email
from the Kerry camp that had a letter from Wes Clark today. I believe he might be the guy also. But I wonder how he will do in a debate against Cheney?
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. That definitely sounds like a clue.
He would beat the shit out of Cheney, imo. Clark is a brilliant Rhodes scholar, with master's degrees in history and economics. Chickenhawk, warmongering, draft dodging piece of &%$# Cheney doesn't have a chance against war hero General Clark. Clark knows how to fight to win, and he will.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. He would be the absolute best
in a debate with Cheney. It's very clear to me that he absolutely despises Cheney. You can hear the contempt dripping from his voice every time he pronounces the name.

Cheney's strong suit is in foreign policy, and Clark has the credentials and expertise, as well as the motive, to absolutely rip Cheney to shreds in that area.

I fact, I can't imagine a better person than Clark to debate Cheney. I feel that Edwards would be eaten alive, and someone like Gephardt would end up pulling the same sort of thing that Lieberman did in 2000.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly are your concerns about a Clark/Cheney debate? Are you worried that Clark might be too mean, and arouse public sympathy for him? I guess it might look really bad if Clark made Cheney have a heart attack right on stage.:P
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. Clark has known Cheney for years
and therefore has studied him. Once Wesley has done that, it's Katie bar the door. Hell, Clark would do a Cheney debate as a surrogate just for the fun of it.

Captain of the West Point debate team.....

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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
39. Gloria, I pray that you're right about this.
I refuse to get my hopes up because I can't deal with the pain of anymore dissapointment. However, for a large number of reasons, I believe that Kerry/Clark would be the best possible combo for taking back the White House.

My main worry is that it may go against conventional political wisdom, and that Kerry is too much of a conventional politician to think outside the box and see the advantages of this ticket.

I'll admit that I have selfish, as well as pragmatic reasons for hoping for the VP slot for Clark. I first became a Clark supporter strictly out of pragmatism, but the more I saw of him the more I really fell in love with him.

With Kerry as the nominee, I kind of feel like I've been forced into an arranged marriage when I'm in love with someone else. With Clark as VP, it would sort of be like the arranged marriage was with the brother of the one I was in love with, and there would be continued close proximity, with the opportunity for an occasional tryst.:)

I know I should not have let myself get so emotionally involved. I guess it's a problem that comes from being human. The only other time that I've actually fallen in love with a candidate was Gary Hart in 1984. This time it seems much more intense though, maybe because the stakes seem so much higher.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Crunchyfrog, I know where you're coming from....I've actually been
Edited on Tue Mar-09-04 07:03 PM by Gloria
rather in limbo since Clark dropped out. When I was discussing the VP idea with my friend, another independent who worked her butt off for Clark like me here in NM, she gave me a nugget of info which made us both more hopeful about a Clark VP spot. A lot of stuff seemed to fall into place.
And she, like me, feels that if Clark is the VP, we will work our butts off for that ticket.
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Bill of Rights Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. I also fell in love with Clark
It was unexpected. I first started supporting Clark because of his 4 star resume. As a supporter, I started keeping track of his appearances. I read everything he said...transcripts, etc. I drove 3 hours to a rally and met him twice while I was there. The man is absolutely beautiful. He had the softest hands. Sigh. He wore the green sweater.

Then I flew out to New Hampshire to help his campaign. I was getting more deeply involved. He started doing poorly. I called voters in Oklahoma and then in Tennessee. He dropped out, and I wept. I still feel sad about it.

IMHO, I don't think Wes wants to be Vice President.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
48. Yes on Clark.
It would make for a strong team. I too am hoping Kerry asks him and Clark will accept. Natl. Defense and Foreign Policy Slam Dunk. He could wipe the floor with Crashcart Chainy.
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Well, a bit of sluething tells a lot
On CNN's "Inside Politics," much hay was given to the e-mail sent to Kerry and other Democratic supporters from Wes Clark today.
Judy WoofWoof snottily asked whether Clark was doing this in attempt to allign himself with Kerry for the vice-presidential nod.
What the former North Carolinian host (answers a lot of questions about her undying devotion to a certain candidate, doesn't it?) failed to do was actually research the source of the e-mail.
The e-mail, while titled, "A Message from Wes Clark" and had the familiar www.clark04.com banner with the picture substituted for one of Clark and Kerry, the message SOURCE was from the Kerry camp.
A couple of quick clicks on the properties told me the hidden e-mail address was info@johnkerry.com and the source was from Kerry's web page servers.
In other words, Clark put out the words, but the Kerry campaign e-mailed them.
It wasn't that hard to figure out, but, then, I'm not as lazy as the national news media. ;)

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Kimber Scott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. Good for you! Now why don't you
send your resume to CNN so we can all get some REAL news! (Maybe, you could get Snooty Judy's job.)

:toast:
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
54. I have a feeling you're right.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
55. DraftWesleyClark for VP!
:)

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TheBigDemo Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
56. I wish n/t
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atre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
57. Clark is a popular choice here...
but he is not outside of this forum.
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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
59. Surprise!
It'll be Edwards...
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. Oh, sure. And then the Kerry/Edwards ticket will get hammered for
their lack of direct foreign policy/national security experience, and Cheney will wipe the floor with JRE in the VP debate(s).

Peachy.



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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. What does Edwards bring to the table?
I can't see what he would bring that would be of benefit to Kerry. He has only one term behind him in congress, he has no foreign policy experience and showed that pretty graphically during the debates, he only won his own state.
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Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. The big thing for me is this:
Shrub is already hammering Kerry as being lax in voting for funding for intelligence and national security. He's alleging Kerry's wishy-washy on protecting our country.
Not a peep, however, about any domestic issues (I'm sure there will be, but, hell Bush can't afford to talk too long about his own failed domestic policies - all he's got is the support he had after 9/11).
How does Edwards help deflect this? He doesn't.
The only reason that Edwards is popular is because of the media's love affair with him. If he's selected as Veep, that love affair's over - complete, finished - and he'll be pegged as an empty-suited, less-than-one term, inexperienced, no-foreign-policy-having senator.
Two senators on the ticket is death, anyway.
I'm not saying it will be Clark, mind you - I'm just saying I hope Kerry's people are thinking through more than just manipulated media polls while making their decision.
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
62. From your lips to Kerry's ear, Gloria.
I tend to agree with you that it is a done deal. I had the good fortune to be in Madison and in the front row to see Clark endorsing Kerry. They were magic together.

When I was shaking Clark's hand after I told him he had to accept the VP when offered, and he of course said now they had to concentrate on getting John the nomination,etc and then said with that wonderful twinkle in his eye, that of course it would be up to Kerry to pick who he wanted.

That was almost 4 weeks ago and I still am so pumped from that. I also have been Kerry/Clark since before Clark got in the race. So Gloria I hope we are both right. When you think of how Clark's numbers took off even before he officially got in the race, I think you have to see that the potential for a blow out is great with these two.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
63. This was posted on the Kerry forum
NOTE: I did NOT write this, so ask me no questions. :)

It's rather long, but worth the reading time:

Between October of 2003 and February of 2004 I held dual positions as both Northern New Jersey Regional Coordinator and a member of the Committee for Media/PR in New Jersey for the General Wesley Clark for President campaign. Both positions were unpaid and voluntary in nature (check out when NJ's primary is held!), I never received a dime from the campaign.

Wesley K. Clark is the finest individual and most respectable human being to run for higher office of any kind in my lifetime. Unfortunately, the finest person does not always win elections ( see Bush V McCain 2000 for further evidence on this topic, for that matter, see W Bush V anyone he ever ran against in his life as evidence of this). During my too short stint with the Clark campaign I met the General and his Wife, Gert, several times. In addition, I got to know his closest family advisor, Brother-in-Law Gene Caulfield and his family very well (the Caulfields are from NJ). In all that time and exposure, I never saw any evidence whatsoever that the Gen. Wesley Clark the political media in Washington portrayed even existed, at all!

I feel certain that after the 2000 election, any Democrat will feel very comfortable with the theory that the press, especially the over-cynical Washington press, is capable of misrepresenting a Presidential candidate just a bit, right? Remember Al Gore the pathological liar? Anyone? George W Bush the real down-home, straight-shooter and all-around likeable fuzzy kinda' guy? You haven't forgotten those two now have you? With that said, I'd like to break down a few popular media myths about Wes Clark if I may:

#1. Clark was a novice who waffled on just about every issue.

It is true that Wes Clark was a political novice, who, on the first day of his campaign gave an answer to a loaded and hypothetical question about the war which was too detailed and thoughtful for the political press. So, as is their way, they jumped on it as an endorsement of the war, which it was most definitely not. Later in the campaign, they raised questions about things he had written in the British media which praised the military effort in Iraq and said Blair and Bush should be proud. At the time, Wes Clark was a private citizen, a former four-star Army General with no political ambition whatsoever, who was very proud of our military, which he had helped to shape into what it is today. As a patriot first, he would never have written anything critical of our armed forces or even their commander-in-chief for a publication in a foreign country.

Ditto on the question of saying supportive things of the Bush administration in 2001, he had no political ambition at the time and expected better of the people in this administration, even though he didn't vote for it (more later on this). If you have any questions about his overall opinion of the war, I refer you to his book "Winning Modern Wars". In it, he makes very clear that while military strategy for the offensive push to Baghdad was excellent (conceived years before Bush 2 ever even took office, by the way). Not enough was done to prevent a war from the beginning and not enough consideration was given to what would happen after the offensive phase ended. After this read, you will understand his comment that "I know more about National Security than George Bush could ever learn in his lifetime."


#2. Clark, being a former General, has a huge and unwieldy ego.

This one is so far off base I'd laugh if it didn't make me want to cry. In fact, I have never, ever met a more humble individual running for any office in my life. Throughout his military career he was known for speaking his mind candidly but also for including other's opinions and for making anyone of any rank or background feel important rather than dominating them. He led, first and foremost, by example. This was no George C. Scott playing Patton.

This was a very different kind of General (which will be the title of an upcoming biography of Wes Clark). A General who looked after the housing, well being and health care of his troops. Questioned the Pentagon when he felt his officer corps lacked diversity and as NATO Supreme Allied Commander in Europe along with his wife made certain that school curriculum for military children were updated and sufficient. Furthermore, a General who took on the Pentagon, which resisted military action in Kosovo, to promote the short but successful campaign which brought down war criminal Slobodon Milosevic and saved over a million ethnic albanians from slaughter.

In December of '03, a few Clark campaign workers walked into a pizzeria in Manhattan, not realizing that the restaurant was owned by former Kosovar Albanians. The reception they received was nothing short of breathtaking. The owners saw their campaign buttons and signs and immediately served them, refused any payment and told them with tears in their eyes that, "This man saved our people, when no one else would help, he was there."

Throughout his career, like Sen. Kerry, there are ample testimonies to his selflessness and bravery. As a four-star General in Europe, NATO Supreme Allied Commander, he was in a convoy traveling along a dangerous mountain road when one of the trucks in front flipped over and careened down the mountainside. The first soldier in the convoy scaling down that hillside to try and rescue any survivors was none other than the convoy's ranking member, it's reason for existing, General Wesley Clark. This is indeed, a "Different kind of General".


#3. Clark is really a Republican.

Thanks for this one, Gov. Dean. Easy to see why Clarkies and Deanies don't get along so well! This was hardly the only time in the campaign that the good doctor opened his trap when he probably should have kept it shut. However, for us, it was one of the more obnoxious examples. Wesley Clark was, in fact, very up front about his political history from the beginning. Voting for Nixon, Reagan and Bush Sr. as a career US Army officer during the cold war when these candidates clearly touted Nat'l. Security as their major focus seems fairly logical. As does returning to conscience after the cold war with votes for Clinton and Gore.

As a former Army officer, he did not have to reveal these votes but he was honest anyway. His father was an attorney for the Democratic Party in Illinois. His social leanings were always with the Democrats. Proof of this can be clearly seen in his career (see the above paragraphs). Once retired from military life, he returned to his home state of Arkansas, where something like 97% of voters are not affiliated with either party because it is not required to vote in a primary. Therefore, when asked, by us (more on this later), to run for President as a Democrat, he needed to register that way in order to do so. All this makes him nothing more than exactly the kind of "Reagan Democrat" that we need to continue bringing back to the fold if we want to beat Bush and take back the Congress. If you actually listened to him once during the campaign, there would be no question as to his politics.


#4. The Clinton's wanted him to run in order to help further Hillary's career.

One of the more bizarre ones to emerge from the Republican spin machine. A clear signal of how much they feared his candidacy. Theory was, that Clark would lose to Bush, thus clearing the path for Hillary to run in 2008. Where to start picking this one apart? Hmm. How about here, what did Bill Clinton or Hillary have to do with the "Draft Clark" movement which actually got Clark to run, nothing. And if Bill and Hillary really hate each other as much as the Neocons say, then why would Bill support a candidate who would help Hillary, who's really a lesbian who killed Vince Foster and after all Bill is such a sexist womanizer why would he ever want to return, as a former President, to the White House as the first ever "First Man" or "First Husband" or whatever they would call him anyway? My head's starting to hurt so I'm going to stop trying to figure this out now.


#5. What makes a General believe he would be a good President?

Answer: WE DID!!!!!

One of the most frustrating elements of this campaign was that, after talking about the Draft Clark movement quite a lot before Clark announced he was running, the political media had what seemed to be the most sudden attack of Amnesia in history after he announced his candidacy, when they NEVER ONCE MENTIONED IT AGAIN! I defy anyone to find me an example that proves this wrong. It's not as though it was an important angle to the story, after all it was only a little over two-hundred years ago the last time this took place. What was that guy's name again....oh, yeah, WASHINGTON!

You see, a real grassroots movement took hold on the internet after two brothers living in separate states started a web forum about this former General who was consulting on CNN during the Iraq war and what a great President he would make. The more folks researched him, the more they liked the idea and came to realize how outstandingly qualified he would be. Suddenly it wasn't such a crazy idea anymore! The media got wind of this and started talking a little about it and now folks from all over America were coming on board and agreeing this was the kind of President we'd always wished for, hoped for. Then Bill Clinton described him as a "rising star" and it was off to the races in terms of grassroots support.

But Clark himself, owing to his humility, stayed quiet on the subject. He consulted with family, friends and politicians as to what this would mean to his life and that of his family. Inevitably, he accepted the challenge to serve his country again, in the most ultimate fashion. As of Sept. 17th, 2003 he was a candidate for President of the United States. At this precise moment, the entire political media completely forgot the preceding six months. At many points, they actually asked him why he had "entered the race so late"?



I'll save the post-mortem on the campaign for another time and forum. Suffice to say that the media's poor treatment of the Clark campaign didn't help any. Did anyone ever think of pressing Gen. Hugh Shelton when he made his "character and integrity" statement? Did anyone ask what might have motivated a fellow General, with a personal axe to grind going back to the kosovo war, to make such a damning and irresponsible comment without offering any detail as to why he felt that way? No, instead the media relentlessly dumped the question back in Clark's lap as though he should offer the explanation. In doing so honestly, he would have made Gen. Shelton and others look very bad publicly. So instead, he humbly suggested that they ask Shelton for the details, they never did.

As for the question of Clark as VP nominee, well, as a biased individual, I think he would be an excellent choice. Especially when you consider the most important criteria; Is the VP qualified to take over the nation if, god forbid, something happens to the President. None of the other candidates for this role hold a candle to him in this capacity. Again, ultimately this choice is not ours and it should not be. It belongs to John Kerry and he has to live or die with the choice he makes.

In closing, I'll make one more important point. Most of Sen. Kerry's support, the vast majority in fact, has been mobilized in the last six weeks. Prior to that, it did not exist. It is predicated almost solely on the recent notion that he can beat Bush. This is in stark contrast to Gen. Clark's support. Which, though now smaller than Kerry's, was based from the beginning on Wesley Clark himself and what kind of individual he was. The fact that we believed he could beat Bush was simply an added bonus. If the Kerry campaign would like to capture some of the politically untraditional intensity seen in the Dean and Clark campaigns. Intensity which led Wes Clark's campaign, after entering in September, a full year after most others, to raise more money than any other candidate from October 1, 2003 thru the end of January 2004. Then Clark makes an excellent choice. You would all be quite shocked at the immediate injection of energy and enthusiasm this choice would bring back to the campaign. I can think of tens of thousands of reasons! Thanks for putting up with my long-windedness.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Thanks for posting that
needed my daily Clarkie fix. :)

The writer sees things pretty much exactly like I do.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
66. Reminder: Wes Debt (OT)
A $43 donation would bring us to $10,000 on the Wes Debt.

Status Date
3/10/2004 11:12 AM

Wes Debt Relief
$9,957.74
124 donors

1-Donate here:

https://secure.clark04.com/

2-Log the amount here:

http://www.wesclarkdemocrats.com/index.asp
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