Isn't Dean's New Org. A Way to Pay Lip-Service while Nadering Kerry's base

[Raya]

Howard Dean was very gracious in calling for party unity and vocally
opposing 3rd-Party efforts. But the organizational activities of
Dean and some supporters is sending a different message.

John Kerry was leading progressive grassroots campaigns in the early 70's
a decade before Gov. Dean had emerged from total indifference to the
political maelstrom of his time. Kerry is a great leader for the
democratic grassroots revival.

To the degree that Dean is holding onto his democratic grassroots activist
support of some independent agenda, rather than helping them transition to the
national democratic effort, he is really doing
to Kerry at the party base what Nader is doing at the ballot.
He is confusing the battle.

Let's all admit that the primary process has allowed a strong leader
to emerge. John Kerry is a tough and principled man for these times.

All the other candidates who suspended candidacy, such
as most recently Clark and Edwards, have matched their words
with appropriate action.

Talk of "pressuring" Kerry by the Dean org is simply
extortion and political blackmail and should end.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

1. No

Thank you!

[arcos]

2. ...

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[madfloridian]

3. An outline is up at the blog.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/

This way you can see it for yourself. The outlines,that is.

I will vote for Kerry in November. I will work actively and donate to the new DFA. That is my choice as an American, and I hope no one tells me it is wrong.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

6. Don't bother

Don't expect anyone who is still convinced that Dean is the Democratic antichrist to do anything radical like read up on what he's doing.

[chocolateeater]

4. No, it's a counterweight to the DLC. n/t

[Kahuna]

5. Yes! Absolutely! Dean has validated every single...

negative thought I have had about him. Is it possible for him to just give Kerry his unconditional support? And if it is, when will he do it? :puke:

[Jim Sagle]

When he wins the nomination and not one goddamn second before.

[Kahuna]

17. Oh! Dean wanted everybody to endorse him before the first

vote was cast. He was ready to announce a "kitchen cabinet." Cried to Terry Mac that he should get other candidates to stop criticizing him because after all...eh hem..Somebody has to win this thing... Typical hypocrisy. :puke:

[Exgeneral]

80. source please

back up that statement with a link.

[madfloridian]

8. Are you saying he has no right to form an organization?

Then that would mean the DLC is doing something wrong, wouldn't it?

Dean is meeting with Kerry this week. He will support him. He said in his speech Saturday that Kerry would be the next president.

[Kahuna]

11. He has the right to do whatever he wants. And I have..

the right to think he's a big sore loser and a baby.

[madfloridian]

14. He planned this organization before he lost.

I am a little tired of the name calling.

[Cheswick2.0]

43. he wants to help populist candidates get elected... the BASTARD

:EYES:

[madfloridian]

49. Truly evil, truly awful

:eyes:

[Larkspur]

52. Remember who helped Kerry against Dean

Mr. Unethical, Torricelli, and those media moguls who were threatened by Dean, who was going to bust the media monoplies.

[janx]

51. Yeah. If Kerry doesn't get elected, Dean will be to blame!

It's all Dean's fault! We all know that his supporters were secret Nader supporters anyway--and all of them under 25 years of age.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

53. Whatever it is, it's Dean's fault!

I lost my favorite pen today. I'm sure he's to blame somehow.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

13. Stop spouting facts!

It's important that we establish Dean right now as the SOLE PROBLEM in case Kerry doesn't get elected!

Yawn...

[liberalnurse]

16. So has kerry with me.

I 'll hold my nose and vote for him if I must but I'm backing Dean's movement to hold all spineless democrats accountable.

[PassingFair]

99. I'm with you, Libby!

The motto I came away from our Dean meeting was:

FEET TO THE FIRE!

We will work to ensure progressive, commonsense candidates get our backing at all levels.

[arcos]

71. Kerry and Dean are meeting tomorrow...

in case you didn't know. An endorsement should probably come soon.

The sad part is, you'll still be bitching against Dean after it. "He didn't look happy enough!" or some other silly criticism is going to be all around DU.

[Raya]

73. This is great news. I want to see the Guv being honored in the Party

[Jackpine Radical]

7. I can't speak for the movement at large,

but at the Dean group meeting I wnet to, everybody seemed interested in supporting Kerry at the national level and starting to get more candidates up for local elections like school boards, county & township boards, city councils, etc. I see a lot of the same people at the county Dem meetings too. The group chose the name "Chippewa Valley Progressives" and agreed to go as a group to the upcoming Feingold meetup. My impression was that the group just sees itself as progressive/liberal Dem & has an immediate, overriding purpose of defeating Bush, after which it will advocate for L&P positions.

[Forkboy]

9. Apparently he's already doing something right

[janx]

10. Raya, what do you know about Dean's new organization?

On what do you base these statements?

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

19. (Crickets chirping...)

[janx]

26. Yep. One post full of pure speculation and accusations...

and then nothing.

[Raya]

25. There is a big thread on Dean Grassroots org that is totally off base

in its fundamental assumptions and the goals of the uniting
the democratic effort as far as I am concerned.

I was a DK and then Dean supporter last summer. I agree with
many of the ideas, but most are core democratic principles and
we have a primary process to win leadership of the party.

I have never before seen a loosing candidate do what Dean is
doing -- holding separate his network, pursuing an independent
agenda during the campaign season.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

28. So because you haven't seen it before

then the only conclusion you can come to is that he's trying to undermine Kerry somehow? Hmmm...

Kerry has the nomination in the bag. Save your ire for Bush.

[Raya]

57. I don't see the kind of SUPPORT for party UNITY one should expect

after a candidate ends his candidacy. Sorry, I have been through
4 pres campaigns and what Dean is doing is quite different.

The way Gep, Clark, Edwards acted is normal for party leaders.

[madfloridian]

65. There are reasons for that.

They don't see a particular problem with some of the choices that have been made about the war and various issues. Dean does, and we do.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

67. I've been through 4 of them too

and I learned one thing: Keep your eye on the ball. Who do you think we should really be worried about here? An incumbent president with $200 million to spend, or the former governor of Vermont?

[Larkspur]

82. Not all of Dean's supporters are Democrats

and despise Kerry, so these supporters would most likely dissipate or go 3rd Party if Dean doesn't give them a reason to stay together. Whether or not Dean can persuade them to support Kerry is up to the supporters, but many of them would support Congressional Democrats who would favor their views.

And just because one is a Democrat, doesn't mean that you have to follow the herd. I'll vote for Kerry, but I don't plan on donating to or volunteering for his campaign. After all Kerry's spokeswoman, Kathy Roeder, said that money doesn't win elections, so there is no need to donate to Kerry's campaign. I'm sure he can get another mortgage on his half of his Beacon Hills mansion should he need it. :evilgrin:

[chocolateeater]

54. Well, the "independent" agenda of the organization

is about supporting progressive Democratic candidates for office, including Senator Kerry. As for holding his network separate, I think that he is encouraging his supporters to help Kerry, but there would be alot of resentment on the part of some members of the network if he just gave his list away.

[madfloridian]

59. I am really concerned that you do not understand all this, Raya.

I would like to see the page at the Grassroots site that concerns you so much. Remember how people here are individuals? Some of the Grassroots are also.

Many who supported Dean because of his fiscal policies and pragmatism are Republicans and Independents who have no loyalty to the Democratic Party.

Many are like us, who will vote for the nominee but devote our time and money to this effort. There is nothing wrong with that at all. This is my country, too, and I shed a lot of tears over it this last year or so.

All of us have this right, and you must not make people feel less like Americans.

[bitchkitty]

98. His agenda is my agenda -

remember Democracy? We used to have it in this country.

[madfloridian]

12. I never heard Dean say he would pressure Kerry.

I think that is a supporter thing.

[salin]

58. Is that what this is about - a single DUer starting a thread?

and now it is framed as if this is the purpose of the organization? Or am I missing something?

[madfloridian]

60. I am not sure at all.

:shrug:

[janx]

66. You are correct. It seems as if, yes, that's what this is about.

n/t

[salin]

69. I was out for most of the weekend and monday

deadlines ya know. Caught the beginning of that thread - but didn't see/read the discussion. Maybe I should have - as I would have had the same message that I have for this thread - which essentiall gets down to: ... there are short-term goals and long-term goals that we need to keep our eyes upon. There are efforts and energies that folks can devote time to that work towards both.

Putting up threads that are intended to draw ire... simply serves to keep us bickering and divided - and simply put makes us easier to be beat.

We have to stop reacting to a single person's thread with a retaliatory thread. Because each time others are sucked into the ugly, pointless dynamic... which leads to more retaliatory threads in both directions.. which leads to standing still - with pent up hostility.

[janx]

70. It certainly does. No doubt about that. n/t

[madfloridian]

72. Thanks for your level headedness, Salin.

:hi:

[salin]

74. hehe

its what I do. :shrug:

Btw, what is news with the whole state library situation down there in Florida?

[madfloridian]

78. We have heard one thing one day, another the next.

So many are afraid of their jobs, it is hard to find out much. We know they are turning a lot of the library into office space for Glenda and crew.

We know they are turning open stacks into closed stacks.

We suspect, highly, that they are boxing books to go to Nova.
Wrote my legislators....no answer. Called....no answer.

We know they are boxing books, but the why is none of our business.

[salin]

83. That is disturbing.

Please keep us posted.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

68. Head, meet nail.

That's just what it is.

[NoPasaran]

15. To quote the blog

"Our new effort will change America by working for the following principles:"

"We will promote grassroots democracy and bring new people into politics.
We will support candidates and office-holders who tell the truth; stand up for what they believe; and oppose the radical agenda of the far right.
We will fight against the special interests.
And we will fight for progressive policies like:
Health care for all.
Investment in children.
Equal rights under the law.
Fiscal responsibility; and
A national security policy that makes America stronger by working with allies and advancing progressive American values."


I certainly hope that Kerry isn't threatened by any of this.

At my last Meetup opinion was solid for supporting Kerry in November because defeating Bush is Job 1.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

18. Just look at all that divisive "Nadering"!

That health care for all thing is obviously a covert plan to destroy John Kerry from within the Democratic party!

[madfloridian]

21. Yeh, Danny, it is all so evil.

LOL

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

22. It's just horrible...

Maybe just to make sure nothing goes wrong in November, we should have Howard Dean executed at the convention?

[sangh0]

23. Actions speak louder than words

I'll base my conclusions on Dean's goals when he starts doing something I can see. As long as he's not doing much, I assume he intends on not doing much. As soon as he starts doing things, I start thinking he wants to get something done. Exactly what that is, depends on what he does.

Until then, I don't think the speculation is helpful

[NoPasaran]

27. That's a two way street

I'll believe that that Kerry and the DNC are serious about retiring Bush* when they go after him him the same viciousness they used to destroy Dean.

[sangh0]

34. Unsteady Leadership

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0303b.html

Statement from Kerry Spokesperson Stephanie Cutter on Bush’s Unsteady Leadership


March 03, 2004

For Immediate Release
Washington, DC –

Kerry Campaign Spokesperson Stephanie Cutter issued the following statement on George Bush’s unsteady leadership.

“George Bush talks about steady leadership in his new multi-million dollar, revisionist history ad campaign, but unfortunately you can’t provide ‘steady leadership’ without credibility. And George Bush has lost credibility with the American people. He said he would create 3.9 million jobs, but 3 million more people have lost their jobs. He said he would make health care more affordable, but 2.8 million more have lost their health insurance. He said he would cut the federal debt by $1 trillion, but his policies have added $1 trillion more, leaving the federal debt at over $7 trillion. Most astonishing, George Bush’s ad features a shot of the wreckage of that tragic September day almost 3 years ago, and the firefighters who so bravely worked to save lives. What he doesn’t tell you is that only 10 percent of fire departments across the nation have personnel and equipment to respond to a building collapse, only enough radios to equip half the firefighters on a shift, and breathing apparatus for only one-third. The only thing steady about this President is his steadily leading our country in the wrong direction. It’s time for a change in America, and time to get things back on track.”

BUSH’S CREDIBILITY GAP: “UNSTEADY LEADERSHIP”

Bush says the economic conditions are out of his control. But since he took office, he and his administration have PROMISED millions of new jobs and better lives for working Americans. Instead 3 million more people have lost jobs, millions have lost health insurance, and Bush continues to only provide empty rhetoric.

“They had their moment. They have not led. We will. Now they come asking for another chance, another shot. Our answer? Not this time. Not this year. This is not a time for third chances; it is a time for new beginnings." – George W. Bush running in 2000.

[sangh0]

37. John Kerry Criticizes Bush on 9/11 Response

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1207a.html

John Kerry Criticizes Bush on 9/11 Response
Unveils Homeland Security Initiatives and Plan to Reimburse Military Families for Body Armor

December 07, 2003

For Immediate Release
San Diego, CA -

Democratic candidate for President John Kerry today stood up to the Bush Administration for their response to the terrorist attacks of September 11th and for failing to provide U.S. soldiers in Iraq with the proper protective body armor.

"After the attack on Pearl Harbor sixty-two years ago, President Roosevelt responded quickly and decisively, not just to go to war with our attackers but also to find answers for what had gone wrong in order to prevent such a tragedy from happening again," said John Kerry. "After the attacks of September 11th, George W. Bush has done the opposite. Where Roosevelt sought answers, Bush has sought to avoid blame by stonewalling the 9/11 commission and congressional inquiries into intelligence failures."

In San Diego today, John Kerry and two of his swift boat crewmates commemorated the sacrifice of those who died in the attack on Pearl Harbor by placing a wreath at the swift boat memorial at the Coronado Naval Amphibious Base where Kerry trained for his service in Vietnam. John Kerry also unveiled details of his plan to improve intelligence gathering, protect U.S. ports, and reimburse military families for body armor purchases. John Kerry's plan:

Enhanced Intelligence Capabilities: 1) Fix the information flow between the intelligence and law enforcement communities; 2) Reform domestic intelligence capabilities so that the Director of the CIA is the true director of domestic intelligence with authority and power; and 3) increase the number of linguists in critical languages in our intelligence agencies.

Improved Port Security: 1) Develop standards for security at ports for containers and ensure that facilities can meet basic standards; 2) Accelerating timetable for the U.S.-Canada and U.S.-Mexico "smart border" accords; 3) implement security measures for cross-border bridges; 4) pursue moderate safety standards for privately held infrastructure; and 5) develop and fund a system of container security that includes tracking devices.

Reimbursements for Body Armor Purchase: One-fourth of the 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq are still waiting for the latest body armor. In the meantime, family members and friends are paying hundreds of dollars for the updated armor themselves and shipping it to Iraq. On Tuesday Kerry will introduce legislation to reimburse family members who paid money out of their own pockets to provide the personal body armor that the government failed to deliver.

"In the rush to war, this administration failed to adequately outfit military personnel shipping off to Iraq. As a result, many of our fighting men and women do not have the latest technology for body armor. It's a disgrace that their families had to use their own funds to buy the body armor and ship it to Iraq. My legislation will reimburse those families," said John Kerry.

Kerry also noted that the Bush Administration has done very little to improve port security.

"With 95 percent of shipping containers coming in through U.S. ports, we need a President with a real plan to protect our ports from dangerous materials hidden in these containers, not one who continues to ignore real imminent threats to our security. My plan would put in place an affordable technology to track containers and their contents and improve security at U.S. ports," said Kerry.

[sangh0]

41. Los Angeles Times: Kerry Says Bush Is 'Stonewalling'

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2004_0308d.html

Los Angeles Times: Kerry Says Bush Is 'Stonewalling'
The Democrat accuses the president of delaying probes of 9/11 attacks and Iraq intelligence.

March 08, 2004

Los Angeles Times
By Matea Gold

Tougaloo, MS —


Democratic presidential challenger Sen. John F. Kerry accused President Bush on Sunday of blocking the investigations into the intelligence failures surrounding the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and the build-up to the Iraq war, suggesting the administration is trying to duck a politically volatile subject.


Launching a new salvo in his building rivalry with the incumbent Republican president, the Massachusetts senator said he welcomed Bush's statement Saturday that the president intended to keep talking about the Sept. 11 attacks throughout this year's campaign.

"Yes, I do too, Mr. President," Kerry said at a town-hall meeting at a college in Tougaloo, Miss., a small town near Jackson. "I want to talk about it right now. I want to know why you've been stonewalling the commission that's trying to get the answers to what happened. I want to know why the United States has to live with a lack of knowledge about what happened in its intelligence failure on weapons of mass destruction."

In a news conference, Kerry noted that the bipartisan commission Bush created last month to investigate the problems with pre-Iraq war intelligence will not issue a report until 2005, "which just happens coincidentally to not be in an election year."

Kerry also said that the work of the federal panel investigating the Sept. 11 attacks has been delayed because of disputes with the Bush administration.

"I think they're slow-walking it," Kerry added. "I think they don't want accountability. They want to get it out of the way as fast as they can so the memory of Americans might be shorter."

The Bush campaign immediately disputed Kerry's charge.

"It is absolutely, completely inaccurate," said campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt. "The president has offered unprecedented cooperation to a commission of this nature…. This is another example of John Kerry launching a false, inaccurate negative attack because he doesn't want to talk about his record on this issue," Schmidt added.

" supported the war in Iraq, but when he felt the political pressure in the Democratic primary, he declared himself an antiwar candidate and voted against the $87-billion supplemental bill that our troops needed."

Kerry's latest challenge to Bush speaks to the increasing frequency with which the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks are being invoked as the campaign heads into the general election contest. Last week, the president began running television commercials that feature images from the World Trade Center, a move that was denounced as insensitive by some victims' families and firefighters.

Some of those who objected to the ads have complained in the past that the administration is not cooperating fully with the Sept. 11 commission, which has had protracted negotiations with the White House about access to information.

"We deserve a president who's willing to stand up for security before his own interests, and we ought to get those answers now," Kerry told voters in Tougaloo.

The senator said he is considering asking a bipartisan group of legislators to go to Iraq in the coming months to gather information about the situation on the ground.

"I'd like to see what the latest assessment is of people I trust," he told reporters. "I think that would be very valuable in formulation of policy and in my ability at this moment to get important updates beyond those that I've gotten through other people's intelligence and the newspapers."

Kerry said that he would be wary of going to Iraq himself to avoid any "politicization" of the war, but he added that he has not ruled out a trip abroad as a candidate.

On another front, the presumed Democratic nominee said he plans to meet with former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean this week, and is scheduling a similar meeting soon with North Carolina Sen. John Edwards.

Their recent withdrawals from the race have taken the fight out of Tuesday's Democratic primaries in four Southern states. Nevertheless, Kerry is campaigning in all of them over a four-day period, using his stops to take swings at Bush.

The Massachusetts senator has also attempted to demonstrate a comfort level in a region where Democrats have lost ground in recent years. He ate crawfish in New Orleans, tossed out Spanish phrases in San Antonio and attended church in Jackson.

At the Greater Bethlehem Temple Church, Kerry quoted scripture and chided politicians whose actions do not reflect their rhetoric. He did not name Bush, but recalled phrases like "compassionate conservative" and "Leave No Child Behind."

"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?" he said, quoting a passage from the Book of James.

Later, Kerry told more than 500 people gathered in the gym of Tougaloo College that he is not worried about regional differences.

"Everybody always says, 'How's a guy from Massachusetts … going to come down to Mississippi and talk to folks about their lives in a way that's going to connect with them?' " he said. "I'm going to talk mainstream American values and common sense…. The last time I looked this is one country, with one set of hopes and dreams."

However, Kerry's challenge in bridging the cultural divide that separates much of the country was exemplified minutes later during an exchange with a woman who identified herself as a "registered Democrat but independent voter" who complained about the gay rights movement.

"Most of the people in this country are sick and tired of the onslaught of the homosexual community using the civil rights movement to further their agenda," she said.

In response, Kerry reiterated his opposition to gay marriage but strongly defended the need to ensure that all citizens are treated equally. He recalled hate crimes, such as the murders of Matthew Shepard, a gay college student who was lashed to a fence post in Wyoming, and James Byrd Jr., a black man who was dragged to death in Texas.

"My point is homosexuality is an idea," the woman responded, describing it as blasphemous.

"I know the deep beliefs and I'm a Christian and I've read the Bible and I understand," Kerry said gently. "That's irrelevant to the argument. American citizens deserve the protection of the equal protection clause of the United States."

Kerry flew late Sunday night to Florida, where he planned to hold three events today.

[NoPasaran]

44. Bring on the Osama ads

[sangh0]

45. Nice "progressive"

Keep focusing on the past. That what the "progress" in "progressive" stands for

[janx]

47. The Osama ad is part of history.

Just because CNN isn't going into it, that doesn't mean that it won't be mentioned in the books that are sure to follow Dean's campaign.

The Osama ad was a large figure in the process. It'll never go away.

[sangh0]

56. History is in the past

Pick your head up and take a look at the future. The Osama ad isn't even a footnote in the history books

[janx]

62. The history books haven't been written yet. So in fact,

they are part of the future! ;-)

The Osama ad is here to stay.

I'm not dwelling on it. But it is unrealistic to think that it didn't happen, didn't matter, or that it will simply go away.

[sangh0]

76. Nope

Every election has it's share of dirty tricks. How many have you heard about?

They don't make it into the history books.

And yes, you are dwelling on it. Kerry is attacking Bush* but you don't like it because of something Kerry said in the past. Instead of taking Kerry's attacks for the good that they undoubtedly are, you have chosen to pout because Kerry said something that upset you.

Unless of coursze, the reason is that you just don't like it when Dems attack Bush*?

[janx]

79. I'm not pouting. Where do you get the idea that I'm pouting?

The Osama ad will indeed have a place in history because the Dean campaign was historic.

It combined some very old American ideas (and ideals) with some very new technology. It raised a record amount of funds.

Books are being written right now about it.

And the Osama ad was a part of it. Ain't it great?

[madfloridian]

84. None of are pouting or sad.

We are proud of Dean and his message, and we are confident within ourselves.

It is other people who try to paint us that way. We are all active in many pursuits.

I said in another post that this is the first time I have felt hope at all, and it is because a candidate stood and said what had to be said.

[salin]

61. NO kidding

in either direction.

Am I wrong - but are a) some folks making huge assumptions about what this group will do (as in "the answer") {I think strong grassroots support for grassroots dems - would be great - but just a part of what needs to be done as a long term strategy of getting this country back on track}... and b) making baseless accusations (such as this thread which appears to be based on a DUers thread/comment rather than on any indication from Dean or his group) that work (intentional or not) to keep divisions going rather than bringing folks together.

[sangh0]

77. Yep, no kidding

and if you re-read my post, I say something very similar to what you just did. Basically I said I will judge Dean's intentions when he starts doing something. Until then, I won't speculate about whether ot not he intends to help.

Is there something wrong with that?

[salin]

93. Used the phrase to signal agreement

and use the opportunity to get up on my favorite soapbox (per the down side of the baiting and bickering)... so unless I have reversed my soapbox (which I haven't) - nothing wrong at all with what you have written. :D

[Cheswick2.0]

48. Health care for all. ... My God, could Dean sink any further?????

Investment in children! How can Howard stoop to this kind of dirty tactic against Kerry? :eyes:

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

50. It's just gutter politics, I tell ya!

They should take his medical school diplomas away!

[Rich Hunt]

92. we need this

We need this sort of grassroots thing - especially one that is active at the smallest levels. This is what the Christian Right has been doing for years - they will work to get one of theirs elected dogcatcher. We need a similar movement in order to fight the right. That means paying attention to dogcatcher elections as well as presidential ones.

[madfloridian]

20. Summary of the plot to bring Kerry down. It is all so silly.

"We will promote grassroots democracy and bring new people into politics.
We will support candidates and office-holders who tell the truth; stand up for what they believe; and oppose the radical agenda of the far right.
We will fight against the special interests.
And we will fight for progressive policies like:
Health care for all.
Investment in children.
Equal rights under the law.
Fiscal responsibility; and
A national security policy that makes America stronger by working with allies and advancing progressive American values."

[janx]

24. Where does the Dean org talk of "pressuring" Kerry?

Where are you getting this stuff? Are you making it up?


Let me give you a hint:

DEAN'S NEW ORGANIZATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KERRY.

[Raya]

30. I am not playing the Bush semantics game "I didn't say imminent"

This thread on this page is one of several by Dean supporters here
and on other Blogs that present the attitude I decry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=447779&mesg_id=447779

[janx]

35. This is what you said:

"Talk of 'pressuring' Kerry by the Dean org is simply
extortion and political blackmail and should end."

Dean hasn't even formally announced his new organization yet. He will do so on the 18th.

There has been no talk of pressuring Kerry. There has been no talk of Kerry AT ALL as far as the new organization goes. It has nothing to do with Kerry.

Understand?

[janx]

39. Well decry it all you like, but the thread you linked is only

one DU poster's musings.

It has nothing to do with Dean or his organization. It would be helpful if you would attribute your statements and speculation to the proper sources instead of blaming Dean's organization for something you yourself or someone else imagined, don't you agree?

[Raya]

46. Ok. I accept your assurance that unity of spirit and action is the goal

of all those supporting the new org. at this time.

[janx]

55. I'm sure we will be united in spirit and action regarding

everything we do, yes. I'm glad you can see that now.

[Melinda]

29. The only "talk of 'pressuring Kerry' is coming from your obvious c/p

Who, what and where's your source?

[madfloridian]

31. Oh, wait, I found it. The sentence. The plan. The threat.

Are you ready?

SNIP...."We will support candidates and office-holders who tell the truth; stand up for what they believe; and oppose the radical agenda of the far right....."

Now that is some scary stuff there, Dr. Dean.

If you think that threatens Kerry, then that is your decision. I don't think it does, as it appears he is standing up to Bush.

I will vote for Kerry in November.

[RetroLounge]

86. Well, in that case, Kerry's toast!

:eyes:

[rucky]

32. Please back this up:

"But the organizational activities of
Dean and some supporters is sending a different message."


any citations that lead you to say this?

[madfloridian]

36. I just noticed that, you are right to ask that it be cited.

We have many types of groups working right now, but none are threatening Kerry.

I really do resent that implication. I think it needs to be explained.

[The Magistrate]

33. Those Are Harsh Words, Mr. Raya

There is no reason whatever, it seems to me, not to take Gov. Dean at his word in this matter just now. His declarations of Party unity, and abjuring his supporters from splinterist efforts, have made a valuable contribution already, that can be seen indicated in commentary here in this forum over the last fortnight.

Nor is there any reason to do everything at once. One of the problems with an early selection of the Party's nominee is how to keep his efforts in the news in the interval before the convention. The organization Gov. Dean is establishing provides some interest, and his eventual formal joining of hands to Sen. Kerry will suffice to dominate a news cycle at some point in future, as well as provide another basis for proclaiming increased momentum for the Senator.

As others have pointed out, there is certainly nothing in the principles of Gov. Dean's organization that is inimicable to Sen. Kerry as a politician, or to his supporters in the Party, or to the Democratic Party itself.

"War requires funds, you know,"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Raya]

38. With greatest respect, I look forward to the Unity of Action you suggest!

This Ms. has been quiet on this issue for a while.
That last "Dean grassroots org" thread really pulled my chain.

[salin]

64. advice - take it to the individual

where it belongs... rather than unnecessarily (and unfairly) yanking a bunch of other folks' chains... who will inevitably react with yet another thread because their chain was yanked... and so on and so on and so on.

[slinkerwink]

94. for once, I actually agree with you

[The Magistrate]

96. A Pleasure, Ma'am

There will doubtless be more such occassions as time goes on; my diet includes far fewer kittens than is popularly supposed in certain quarters....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Larkspur]

40. When did Kerry have a base that Dean could steal?

Kerry has work hard to thumb his nose at the Dem base. He skipped the NOW Prez Forum and was going to bypass the NAACP Prez forum last year until Mfume spanked him in the press.

Kerry has stolen Dean's stump speech lines and Dean has a right to make sure that Kerry lives up to those lines he stole.

Also, Dean's organization is going to help get Democrats elected, Democrats who favor Dean's moderate-progressive views, so how is this going against Kerry's interests? Oops, forgot. It would be going against Kerry's Special Interests -- corporate individuals who donate and bundle money to his campaign, like the media moguls who helped him against Dean, and those slimy unethical Democratic jerks, like former Sen. Torricelli from NJ, who is one of Kerry's national fundraisers. Torricelli donate $50,000 from his senate war chest to that 527 group that aired those Osama ads against Dean in Iowa.

If Dean's org hurts Kerry, it will be because Dean helps clean up the Dem Party from those old Tammeney Hall style politics.

[janx]

81. Ssshhhh!

;-)

[Cheswick2.0]

42. You object to raising money to get populists elected to congress?

The organization is probably going to function as clearing house for grassroots candidates who will otherwise not get much help from the party. We are going to grow the new generation of Democratic politicians who will then move on in the system. We are going to help people win elections who will not be beholden to special interest investors in their campaigns. Why would you have a problem with that?

I don't admit that the primary process has worked this time. I think people have been had by the media and the myth of Kerry's electability. So I will be working on getting real progressive/populists into office. I am an American, a democrat and a life long activist. You have no right to tell me how and where my time and effort must be focused.

Go hang on the Kerry blog and keep your nose out of what doesn't concern you.

PS....Everyone should be pressuring Kerry whether they are happy with him or not. Any claim he has to progressive politics was undone by his behavior the last three years. He isn't excused from being "pressured" just because he is a democrat.

[salin]

63. Who is doing this talk? A single Duer's thread

that is what this whole thread is about?

Woohoo more of the old "keep duers divided and easier to conquer" type efforts - sadly often perpetrating by folks who actually want to see unity, but are unable to recognize the effects of their efforts.

[Sushi-Lover]

75. Nadering Kerry's base ...

what the hell does that mean? Isn't that somewhat like shouting "splitters" at other groups with views that are mostly similar to ones own group of views? The organization will largely be about the national democratic effort. He is mobilizing a base to support Kerry and other democrats. A group of people whose money and volunteer time would largely be dissipated without such an effort on his part

[Guaranteed]

95. I wasn't even aware that Kerry had a base. nt

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetroLounge]

87. This thread ain't nothing but poop...

eom

[lojasmo]

88. pointless speculative paranoid drivel. N/T

[mzmolly]

89. LOL

Bwahhh ha ha ha ha heh heh ha!

That's all this post deserves frankly.

:nopity:

[Duder]

90. Yes, because Kerry is so bad...

...we're already making plans for our coup d'tat.

[Tom Rinaldo]

91. If you accept the premise, and I do, that Dean pumped new blood...

into the Democratic Party, including people who felt alienated, rightly or wrongly, from established Party leaders, then this makes a lot of sense to me. Some of those people can not easily be delivered as a gift package to the normal Party enterprise. Many of those people would not have been involved in politics at all, and some would not have even voted.

On on hand the Democratic Party is excited to see some new troops, but the question has to be asked, well why are they new? Why weren't they here before? I accept as common sense that all things being equal, which of course they never are, it might be easier to wholesale "deliver" Gephardt loyalists to Kerry than Dean loyalists to Kerry. While the vast majority of Dean's supporters are rather staunch Democrats, loyalty to the Party is not as much a given for some who only recently signed on to the Democratic Party process through Dean's campaign. God Bless Dean for reaching out to those people, and welcoming them, and empowering them in his fold.

Yes, it is fair to ask of Dean that he do everything reasonable in his power to close ranks behind Kerry and to help Kerry to victory in November. Dean has said as much. But if Dean is going to mobilize his base for Kerry, he has to ensure that important elements of his base don't first dissipate, either to the Greens, to apathy, or whatever. Dean's base cares about November, but also beyond, and there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Let Dean get his house in order, then hopefully he can throw a huge house party for Kerry.

[bitchkitty]

97. Well, these are the early 2000's,

and Kerry was kissing Bush's ass until Howard made it okay to bash the chimp. Kerry is not the great leader of the grassroots Democrats, that's absurd. Teresa Heinz' husband, the savior of the masses, bwahahahahah!