What are the chances of getting the Green Party endorsement for Kerry?

[eeyore]

I'm not up on all of the issues that concern the Greens, but it seems like it would be a great coup to get their endorsement of Kerry. Call me naive or ridiculous, but what are the chances?

Kerry's Ratings as collected by Global Stewards
http://www.globalstewards.org/democrats.htm#env

League of Conservation Voters 96% Lifetime Rating

AFL-CIO 90% Lifetime Rating

NAACP 100% Lifetime Rating


Also, call me crazy, but when you look at their voting records, it looks like Kerry is Kucinich's liberal equal. The main difference is in their votes on the Iraq War Resolution.

Hmmm......

Whatchyall think?

On Edit: I specifically would like to hear from some Greens about this. I know y'all are out there.

[Doomsayer13]

1. 0%

[FlashHarry]

2. And watch Nader disappear in a puff of irrelevance?

I love it!

However, Kerry's war vote might prevent this. Unless the Green Party finally realizes there is in fact a palpable difference between the Democratic and Republican parties, with Kerry representing a more progressive Dem. party, and Bush representing a more radical GOP.


Vote Kerry in the national election. Vote Green (or whatever) in local and state elections. That's why they call it a grass-roots movement.

[Wabbajack]

3. -1%

[no name no slogan]

4. Slim and none

Kerry's rhetoric lately is all about continuing the war in Iraq, and even adding another 40,000 troops to the armed forces.

The Green Party itself is about much more than sane environmental protections: the party is also concerned with sustainable economies, social justice, and an end to corporate control of the government.

I don't see it happening if Kerry is the nominee.

[DuctapeFatwa]

5. You can read the Green Party's website, generally their positions trend

toward a deviation from the status quo, since Kerry seems to be doing so well, even if the Greens were to agree to discard their position on just about every issue and endorse Kerry, I'm not sure if that's the endorsement that would be the most helpful to him with the voters that he needs.

[eeyore]

6. Would the Greens ever endorse a Dem for the greater good?

Just curious. Are Greens just 100% anti-Dem and anti-Puke, or have they ever endorsed another party's candidate? I do think it would help Kerry, but I know it most likely wouldn't happen. I respect their efforts at building a third party, but my experience has often been that Greens can tend to be contrary for the sake of being anti-establishment. Not trying to paint the entire party with a broad brush stroke, just my personal experience.

[rbnyc]

9. They'd have endorsed Dennis Kucinich. (nt)

[Exgeneral]

7. I'll answer with pictures

AND

[eeyore]

8. Love it!

:toast:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. And Pickens just left the building.

[WitchWay]

10. Not in a million years

"the main difference is in their votes on the Iraq War Resolution"
To Greens, this is not some minor issue. War is a huge issue.
Kerry's vote is totally unacceptable and irresponsible. Greens do not support imperialist military campaigns:
http://www.therealdifference.org/issues.html

Greens do not approve of corporate donors, so Kerry's out again:
http://www.gp.org/partyinfo.html

Democrats believe that there is much more difference between themselves and Republicans. Greens see there is too little difference:
http://www.therealdifference.com/
http://www.therealdifference.com/issues2.html

You say:
"but it seems like it would be a great coup to get their endorsement of Kerry."

It's crazy to imagine that Greens would somehow sacrifice all of their principles and values for a candidate that is so antithetical to their positions. Greens are building a viable third party. They will not allow a "coup" like this to occur. They would only support candidates who are principled and are not being pulled by corporate strings. Most greens want to see an end to the two-party duopoly, not a continuation of it. Greens believe that compromise is not acceptable, and that principles are paramount.

Kerry does not come close to being principled in the ways that Greens expect from candidates. Kerry can't even bring himself to call himself a "liberal". The extravagant, wealthy lifestyle of Kerry comes no where close to embodying Green ideals of sustainability. Greens would never support a bonesman, see the Greens' Social Justice and Equal Oppurtunity Value #2 which states:

"All persons should have the rights and opportunity to benefit equally from the resources afforded us by society and the environment. We must consciously confront in ourselves, our organizations, and society at large, barriers such as racism and class oppression, sexism and homophobia, ageism and disability, which act to deny fair treatment and equal justice under the law."

And can you imagine a dove hunter picking up on the vegan vote?
http://www.johnkerry.com/communities/sportsmen/

[paulk]

22. is being vegan

a requirement for joining the Green Party?

[WitchWay]

83. No

But there are alot of Greens who are vegans. There's something about it that goes hand in hand.

Greens also don't tend to be avid hunters like Kerry. Most Greens would read this article, and be a little concerned as to why Kerry is promoting himself as a person who likes to shoot and eats doves.

[dolstein]

11. About the same as Kerry getting the Republican Party nomination

Sooner or later DU'ers are going to have to give up on this fantasy they have about the Green Party and the Democratic Party forging a united front against the Republican Party. It's not going to happen.

[genius]

14. But we need to to beat Bush and save the world. I know the Green

Party is concerned about viability if it endorses Kerry. However, there are a lot of disgruntled Democrats who want to work with the Greens but won't go third party because they don't want to lose. Maybe there's an alternative way of forming an alliance that makes the Greens feel they are not losing and the liberal Democrats feel like they have a chance at fixing the Democratic Party.

[The Magistrate]

16. Actually, Sir

It would be a good way to build viability. The Green column for Sen. Kerry would provide a precise indication of its power and potential value as friend or foe. A number of left Democrats might well be moved to vote for Sen. Kerry on the Green line, who otherwise would have no choice but to reject it. A radical party with the sense to operate as a left flank could be of great use in opposing the reactionaries gathered under the Republican standard, and many would welcome that.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[GreenInNC]

17. We have asked

for years for the DNC to sit down with us and discuss elections. They have refused. We have asked for easier ballot access laws so we could run for local and state offices but the Democratic leadership has brushed us off. We have asked for Instant runoff voting in states where the Democrats hold all the power and the leadership says no way. So what is left for us to do?

[The Magistrate]

18. Show That You Are Useful, Sir

Then you will be courted....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[GreenInNC]

19. define useful n/t

[Forkboy]

21. help Dems get elected

:shrug:

[The Magistrate]

86. Not Quite, My Friend

Though it would likely be the initial effect in many places.

The point, to me, is the defeat of Republicans. How this is achieved, and by who, is of little immediate concern, so long as it is achieved, and as soon as possible. That Party is the organized power of reaction in our polity, and so long as it exercises power, nothing can be achieved by left and progressive forces.

The Democratic Party is a coalition containing left, left-center, and center elements. The Greens, it seems, aspire to be a party of the left, and cannot realistically hope to achieve much positive influence unless they can also convince many left-center and center persons to move further leftwards, or else become themselves a coalition containing at least substantial left-center elements.

It would seem to me that, as currently constituted, both the Democratic Party and the Green Party ought to be able to take for a common enemy the Republican Party, which after all is wholly inimicable to both those groups. Working together to attack Republicans could bring benefits to both. The Green Party would be able to demonstrate whether there really is any heft to a more radical left line of attack against reactionary elements in this country; many on the left insist there would be, but most Democratic Party strategists disagree, and so will not do as these leftist urge, and give the line a try. Green Party support would provide a way to test the idea, as it would be possible, whether through seperate ballot lines, or through polling data, to establish what portion of the anti-Republican vote had been moved by Green Party work, and also whether those moved by Green Party work were new voters, or Democrats. If it could be established that the Green line did move a useful portion of the people, and particularly if it brought in new people, the Green Party would certainly be courted by the regulars of the Democratic Party, who would find it adviseable to incorporate the Green line into their own platforms and campaigns.

If the Republican Party were to be neutralized by such a grand coalition on the left, featuring, so to speak, both regular and guerrilla forces operating in conjunction against the common foe, it would then be possible to enter into a genuine competition between the two parties for the left-center, and even the center elements. The problem today is that the Greens seem to be attempting to leap-frog to this stage without the neutralization of the common enemy of the left having been achieved. Worse, they seem in many cases to be taking the Democratic Party as their chief enemy, and seeking to establish themselves by stripping votes from the Democratic Party. In present conditions, this can only work to the benefit of the Republicans, and it must be expected this course will meet with bitter resistance by Democrats, including even leftist Democrats.

"Engage the most dangerous first."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[mobuto]

28. Answer: Don't Ask the DNC

Talk to the Kerry campaign. In New York, the same candidates frequently get listed on both the Democratic and Liberal Party tickets. I'm sure Kerry would be delighted to run on a Green Party ticket as well.

[genius]

13. I've been talking to the Greens and it won't happen

Apparently, they feel the party would be commiting suicide to endorse a Democrat. The good news is that a lot of people high up in the party plan to vote for Kerry. Kerry needs to work on getting as many endorsement from as many high profile Greens as possible - if Kerry gets the nomination.

[RichM]

20. Plenty of SF Greens endorsed Kucinich & voted for him in the primary.

Many Kucinich volunteers worked for (Green) Matt Gonzales' campaign for SF Mayor, & many Greens returned the favor. They don't have a problem "endorsing A Democrat" - it depends on WHICH Democrat.

None of these people will endorse Kerry. They might say, "OK, hold your nose and vote for him," but they won't endorse him.

[GreenInNC]

15. We can't do it.

Many of our state ballot lines depend on us running our own candidate for Prez.

[John_H]

23. My God. What a disaster that would be.

Can you imagine the field day the rethugs would have going through the green platform and tying it to Kerry?

Income-capping, authoritarian centralized control over everything...

[corporatewhore]

26. ha they are for decentralization of wealth AND power and grassroots

community level democracy shows you how much you know about the greens

[Forkboy]

27. The biggest Green haters

are almost always the most clueless about them.

[DuctapeFatwa]

29. gp.org and draftcamejo.org are just two sites that interested people

can visit to read about the Green Party.

[mobuto]

30. here's another one http://www.georgewbush.com

For a preview of what you'll get if you vote third party.

As you'll see, the Green Party, like other third parties, strongly supports the war in Iraq. It supports environmental degradation, reckless tax cuts for the very wealthiest, the repeal of Roe v. Wade, the effective privatization of social security, tax dollars for religious prostelityzing, bloated defense budgets, billion-dollar Halliburton contracts, the USA Patriot Act, and, of course, Mars.

[Forkboy]

31. I like DF's links better

[mobuto]

33. Yes, but one is realistic

DF's links promote a fantasy agenda. The real agenda of the people who would come to power if you voted third party is well illustrated by www.GeorgeWBush.com

[Forkboy]

36. I like fantasies

I used to have one where the Dems had a spine but,alas,that has been crushed.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

38. We already knew that if you are considering voting third party for Prez

That is an act that could only be justified by fantasy.

[Forkboy]

45. Butterflies

[Feanorcurufinwe]

46. And repeating that word reveals what about your skill at debate?

Let's say you were to continue to repeat that word, or other random words, in response to my comments? Would that show you to be clever, or creative?

[Forkboy]

47. Butterflies

dont you get it?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

50. No, I don't 'get' what you think is clever about repeating 'butterflies'.

lol

Why don't you explain what is so brilliant and insightful about your comments to those of us who "don't get it"?

:hi:

[Forkboy]

51. nah

:hi:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

54. Perhaps you don't see anything clever about it either? nah,didn't think so

[Forkboy]

56. It just gets better!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

61. How so?

[Forkboy]

64. I can't say

mum is the word....shhhhhhhh!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

75. It's like trying to describe the artistry of a blank canvas.

No words will suffice.

[Forkboy]

76. that would be a ghost in a snowstorm

[mobuto]

53. There are few more arrogant

than those contemptuous of two-party politics. They think they're better than the rest of us. They think they're so smart they don't have to play by "our" "spineless" rules. And the result? Not one of their proposals is ever enacted. Their candidates are not elected to office. And every single issue they espouse is defeated. This happens again and again, and yet they refuse to admit that their actions have consequences.

Arrogance.

[Forkboy]

57. Awww butterflies

It's hard not to be better than some.It can happen quite by accident even :shrug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

62. But how would you know if you were?

[Forkboy]

65. Secret cool guy decoder ring

all the cool people got one?

Oh,sorry...

[mobuto]

67. What's your point?

Are you trying to be clever? Cute? Witty? Informative?

If you want to debate issues, fine. Otherwise, please stop cluttering my bandwidth.

[Forkboy]

70. None of the above!

And I'll clutter bandwidth how I see best.

The ignore feature will save you your precious bandwidth if it bothers you so much to read my posts.I'll be crushed that you dont love me tough,so for my sake,and the butterflies,I hope find it in your heart to love :hug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

73. We're not saying we don't want to hear your ideas - we're saying we do

The problem is that while we are willing to hear your thoughts, you are either not sharing them, or we were overestimating you.

[Forkboy]

78. you seem perturbed

my apologies :hug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

79. The word is bored,

and my expectations are going down with every post I read.

[Forkboy]

81. can't be too bored

you keep responding :shrug:


As for your expectations-they aren't mine,and this has lived up to,and exceeded mine! But then,they were probably so much lower than yours to start with.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

72. And that's what tells you you're better than other people?

[Forkboy]

74. That and the butterflies

[Feanorcurufinwe]

77. Come on, try at least to come up with something.

Exercise your brain, please.

[Forkboy]

80. oh ok

Caterpillars!

[DuctapeFatwa]

58. dunno, those who seek the destruction of the Dem party come close

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=434036

[mobuto]

63. That would be you?

The idea that splintering the progressive vote - so as to ensure that no progressive could ever beat Bush - is a good thing for the Democratic Party is so absurd and asinine it would make even Karl Rove's head explode.

[DuctapeFatwa]

68. bush has professionals to smear Kerry with the progressive label

do you feel they are so incompetent that they need your help?

[redqueen]

87. See post #17

As long as Democrats fight against election reform, they'll continue to be viewed as another enemy by third parties. GOP as an enemy fighting reforms is a given.

[GreenInNC]

90. I am a Green

and have been elected to office.

[mobuto]

39. So because Democrats have no spine

in your opinion, you're going to help get Bush reelected?

Whatever floats your boat.

In the end the Greens and other third parties are the ones without spine - because they're not willing to accept the consequences of their actions. Their ideas are meaningless, because they will never come about so long as Republicans keep on getting reelected, and their rhetoric lacks responsibility.

[DuctapeFatwa]

41. Kerry does not need the votes of those who oppose the status quo

In fact, suggesting that he would want them is not exactly a compliment to his integrity.

[mobuto]

43. John Kerry wants everybody's vote

Even yours, Ductape Fatwa.

[DuctapeFatwa]

48. I will leave it to his fans to defend the insult to him

and confine my own remarks to that beloved theme "pragmatism."

What Kerry needs are the votes of those who like bush's policies but are, as another thread puts it, tired of looking at bush's face.

There are many more of those than there are of those who oppose the status quo, regardless of how tastefully it is packaged.

The Patriot Act will take care of those folks, no need for you to be concerned.

[mobuto]

59. If it weren't so sad it would be funny.

One would think that the idea that there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans, and particularly between a left-wing liberal Democrat like John Kerry and a far-right radical like Bush would be absurd enough on its face. But after three long, hard years of Bushite wickedness, that position has become pure insanity.

[DuctapeFatwa]

69. There are cosmetic and vocabulary differences, which are apparently

all the voting class wants.

Why do you persist in echoing bush's lies about Kerry?

[Forkboy]

44. Hey,I'm voting for ham sandwich

doesn't mean I like the taste of it.

[mobuto]

52. Fine

You may not agree with John Kerry on all the issues. I certainly don't. I even worked for another candidate, who lost. But the solution isn't to desert the Democratic Party and, as a result, help Bush get reelected. No, the solution is to work within the Democratic Party and help mold it to better reflect your views.

[Forkboy]

60. Didn't I just say I'm voting for ham sandwich?

How is that helping Bush?

As for abandoning the Party.I've been trying to "mold it better" to fit my views for 20 years now.Not a whiff of success.Sorry,but 04 is my last Dem vote.

[mobuto]

66. 20 years? Maybe you're not really "better than some"

as you suggest, if after 20 years of back-breaking labor, you still haven't gotten what you wanted. Make I suggest you try harder?

Voting for "ham sandwich" or yourself or Ralph Nader or Sylvester Stalone is all well and good, except for the fact that you only have one vote in which to help stop Bush, and you've wasted it.

[Forkboy]

71. er...ham sandwich would be Kerry

and I agree,I feel it's a wasted vote.But you can't talk me out of it,nosireebobcattail!

And you may suggest anything you like,but that's because I have love for my fellow man and his opinions,even if they aren't butterfly friendly!

[redqueen]

88. Ideas like election reform?

Why is it that you think it's only the Republicans fighting that? I think the Dems are no less guilty of ensuring the continuation of the two-party stranglehold on power.

[mobuto]

93. When have Democrats fought against election reform?

I'm racking my brain here. The last time I checked the most recent Democratic platform called for:

RENEWING OUR DEMOCRACY AND CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM

In the year 2000, along with all the other big choices they have to make, Americans will be making a choice about who's running their country: the people or the special interests, the voters or the lobbyists, the many or the few. We must restore American's faith in their own democracy by providing real and comprehensive campaign finance reform, creating fairer and more open elections, and breaking the link between special interests and political influence.

The Republicans will have none of this. Instead of limiting the influence of the powerful on our politics, they want to raise contribution limits so even more special interest money can flow into campaigns. The big-time lobbyists and special interest were so eager to invest in George W. Bush and deliver campaign cash to him hand-over-fist that he became the first major party nominee to pull out of the primary election financing structure and refuse to abide by campaign spending limits.

In this year's presidential primaries it became clear that the Republican establishment is violently opposed to John McCain's call for reforming our democracy. Al Gore supports John McCain's campaign for political reform. In fact, the McCain-Feingold bill is the very first piece of legislation that a President Al Gore will submit to Congress - and he will fight for it until it becomes the law of the land.

Then he will go even further - much further. He will insist on tough new lobbying reform, publicly-guaranteed TV time for debates and advocacy by candidates, and a crackdown on special interest issue ads. Most boldly of all, Al Gore has proposed a public-private, non-partisan Democracy Endowment which will raise money from Americans and finance Congressional elections - with no other contributions allowed to candidates who accept the funding. This will let our politics be free from the influence of special interests and let Americans believe in their own democracy again.

[DuctapeFatwa]

32. you can whois the sites and demand that the webhosts take them down

if you are so worried about people reading what is on there.

[mobuto]

34. ???

It isn't that I'm worried about people reading what is on there that I recognize that whatever is on there is completely irrelevant. No Green will be elected President in the upcoming election. So it doesn't matter whether their agenda is perfect or highly flawed, because in the end it won't matter one or the other. The only thing that does matter, however, is that progressives will not be voting for the only candidate who can beat Bush.

The end result of that, of course, is that Bush gets reelected.

So instead of wasting your time with what is, ultimately, little more than mental masturbation, you might as well surf on over to georgewbush.com and read more about the real agenda you're helping bring into fruition.

[DuctapeFatwa]

35. then why feel so threatened by the idea that people might go to the sites?

the idea that dressing up the bush agenda in a ruffled party dress and putting whipped cream on it will save the country is a pretty over the top fantasy in itself, for all its popularity.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

37. why do you feel it necessary to misrepresent mobuto's position?

S/he didn't say or imply what you are pretending.



Why not address the actual points being made?

[John_H]

92. He he he. They're at least as athoritarian as any right wing nut.

Take a look at the greens' "local democratic control" proposals--every single one of them is administered and regulated by the Federal government, For example, when Fidelity Ralph says let's give the fortune 500 "back to the pople" he's really talking about his political appointees having supreme regulatory power over american business. He's talking about nationalizingf the fortune 500.

And the list goes on and on and on. Income capping. Administrative banning of products etc etc etc.

You may fall for the Marx-lite rhetoric, but thank god the other 99 percent of America does not.

[messiah]

24. When Kerry takes leftist and not just simple "liberal"stances

[corporatewhore]

25. I will begin at freetrade and go on from there on why kerry isnt Green

material he is for free trade which goes against what the greens standfor
Decentralization of wealth and power
grassroots democracy
workers rights
human rights
environmentalism
anti slavery
anti imperalsim
an emphasis on community based economics
social justice
Similary kerry has not that great track record on social justice human rights and anti imperalism besides his hardcore freetrade and trade with china policies IWR Plan Colombia his support of the aparthied wall and israel no matter what and what the fuck is that support for proggressive interatiionalism which pretty much reads like a better worded pnac agenda i cant believe that he is thought as of progressive he is a a liberal all right a neoliberal

[w4rma]

40. The Green Party is so chaotic, who knows what they might do.

Imho, the Green Party is more anti-establishment than liberal.

A Green Party endorsement would probably hurt more than help anyway.

[debsianben]

42. Not just IWR

It's not just Kerry's vote for the IWR(and support for keeping the troops in Iraq because "now that we're there, we can't just leave"), it's also his vote for NAFTA(and lifelong support for free trade), it's also his vote for the Patriot Act, it's also his vote for the union-busting Homeland Security Bill, it's also his vote for "No Child Left Behind," etc. All of these votes make it very hard to convince any one who might be considering voting third-party that a Kerry administration would mean any kind of sharp break from continued empire-building abroad, the continuing erosion of civil liberties at home and the continued consolidation of corporate power and worshipping at the altar of "the free market."

The fact is that there's no getting around the fact that if the Democratic Party had wanted to get the votes of the Greens and their supporters, they had their chance--it was called the primaries. They blew it, and picked the single candidate (other than Liebermann and maybe one or two others) out of the 10 options who was LEAST likely to attract those votes.

A lot of people are trying to revise history now and pretend that Kerry is some great progressive populist in the Nader/Kucinich mold, but I doubt any one is buying other than those so desperate to make themselves feeel better about holding their nose and voting for him in November that they can convince themselves of it. The fact is that, when if you're trying to woo the votes of the 3 million Americans who voted for Nader in 2000 or the millions of Americans who voted for Green candidates in the mid-term elections in 2002, picking a pro-war, pro-"free trade," anti-civil liberties candidate ain't gonna get the job done.

[zulchzulu]

49. If they were cool they would but they are irrelevant so it doesn't matter

I used to vote Green in local elections.

Now they are not on my list because they are complicit in getting Bush in the White House. If Nader had dropped out in 2000, I would have felt better about the Green party.

Now I believe that they are nothing I would care to help out.

[rdfi-defi]

55. you may have voted green (which i doubt)

in the past. but even if you did you missed the point. they are trying to build an option to the dems and repbs. if you voted for the party in the past, that means you too were helping to build the party. why would you want their candidate to drop out? you are either lying or clueless. take your pick.

"if they were cool...." PO

[Iverson]

82. eeyore, there is no chance whatsoever.

The Greens are not centrist Democrats and have no interest in becoming centrist Democrats.

Also, I recommend that you note carefully who answered your exact question and who did not.

[CWebster]

84. Zero

[eeyore]

85. Whoa!

Thanks for all of the great responses! I know that it could never happen, I just wanted to hear from some people who have firsthand experience in the land o' Greens.

You just never know what you're going to stir up with a seemingly innocuous question. I just never thought it would be.....





:toast: to the night crü for the entertainment!

[WI_DEM]

89. ZERO

Too many Greenies and I know a few think Kerry is a sell-out and "corporate whore".

[Citizen Kang]

91. About the same chance as getting

an endorsement from the Republican Party. You see, the Green Party is a different party than the Democratic Party. They have a different platform, a different view on politics, different special interests. Etc, Etc, Etc.


Greens will continue to be Greens, and very little of them will join the Democratic Party until the party adopts their views. Politics is funny that way.